All Hell breaks loose in the backbreaker household

[wait_out]

Rollo man, I heartily second everything you said in your post -- but if a girl starts sliding into a BPD/PD profile -- isn't the whole idea of frame control out the window?

I was dating that kind of perfect woman who slowly turns your personal life into a nightmare too (yep also mid-20's). By the end I had to de-escalate fights by trying to walk her through a normal emotional reaction with a matrix I'd draw on a sheet of paper including the physical event, her perceptions of it and my own thoughts. It worked but she was simply not capable of it alone.

SHE didn't control the frame. She had this pathetic all-consuming childish love for me and was equally jealous, protective, and panicky when it seemed to her to be in jeopardy. She'd be relieved -- I mean, demonstratively GRATEFUL to me -- when she realized how f*cked her reasoning was, because it gave her some brief respite from being afraid all the time. Her insecurities were what controlled HER. THEY controlled both our frames. That was pathological, not rational, and I stayed in way too long because i was arrogant and thought i could overcome that with rational means. That was such a hard and humbling lesson for me, which I wouldn't wish on anyone. God it sucked.

I consider that relationship a tragedy. But what can you do with a girl like that? I miss the hell out of the good times. But I don't ever think I could have made it work, and the only thing I could do to help her was give her such a hard shock she'd get into therapy on her own and become a new person.

That relationship is going to haunt me for the rest of my life and sometimes I feel like I'll always be in love with that girl even when I wish I wasn't. BB dude be careful. I'm sure you don't need an internet forum to tell you how to run your personal business.... but that doesn't mean you still can't get eaten alive if you care deeply about this girl, and the ground beneath your feet just opened without you noticing. Please take what happened seriously and find out what she's doing to avoid a sequel. If things get bad in the future and you feel like you missed a chance where you could have averted it, you are going to regret it. I'm not as wise as Rollo apparently but I can certainly tell you your ego is an insubstantial defense against impending reality -- and nobody is exempt from catastrophe.

I hope I didn't just make an ass out of myself... the point is the world is always bigger than you are. Sometimes... that sucks

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

You're in for a lifetime of this shiat...why would you do this to yourself?

She has the choice to leave the relationship at any time. You do, too. I'm telling you: Get out now.

Unfortunately this decision has already been made for him - he has a son by this woman. Like it or not he will be attached to this woman for a lifetime now. You can take the route that he's only invested until the boy is 18, but anyone with children knows that it goes far longer than that. And every time he interacts with his son, he'll see her influences and remember the choice that was made for him, for better or worse.

 

[spider_007]

somehow you guys got sold on the idea that men and woman are equal.

hate to break it to you but we are NOT.

We look different, feel different, think diffferent, have different priorities.

Man hitting a woman IS NOT the same as a woman hitting a man. I could probably punch a chick out cold easy, but generaly not many chicks could cause me any major trouble. I do agree that violence in any relationship is wrong - no matter who it's comming from. But generaly i don't view it as serious - that's untill you end up with a fat lip. At that point it's time for the "goon hand"

 

[cordoncordon]

Also, NO ONE has to the right to ask me, "Where are you going?" and "Where have you been?" NO ONE! My mother used to ask me those questions, but when I turned 18, she stopped asking me.



You're better off being alone than being dominated for the rest of your life, or standing to lose half of your monetary assets when she files for divorce because she suspects that you're (God forbid!) talking to other women in coffee shops.

So if you walked in on your gf or wife at a bar lets say, and you had no idea that she was meeting this guy nor did you know who he was, you would be perfectly alright with that and say hey, "I have no right to ask her why she's meeting some strange dude here". Really? LOL I don't think so.

Anyone who is living with their gf/bf or wife/husband, has imo VERY much a right to know what their significant other is doing. Not every minute by minute detail, but yeah, if I'm a girl and my bf was meeting some woman at a starbucks for whatever, damn right I deserve to know what for. BB totally blew this by being so secretive, when there was absolutely 100% no reason to be. IF he simply tells his fiancee his assistants name, and tells her he is training her and meeting her at Starbucks, which is a totally normal and healthy thing to do in a relationship....NONE of this happens. For the life of me I cannot figure out why he was hiding all of this from her, just makes no rationale sense to me. I mean it is so mundane. Unless.....he really was trying to get with his assistant. That is really the only reason I can think of to hide what he was doing.

 

[cordoncordon]

Also, her hitting him was inexcusable and if it happens again, I would leave if I were BB, but cmon, she's a 110 pd. woman. Not quite the same as if he was hitting her. Besides, it sounds like he just stood there and took it, when he at least could have bobbed and weaved lol. She definitely wears the pants in this relationship atm, I will agree there.

 

[vatoloco]

I don't know the specifics of your relationship with this woman but, if a woman slapped me for something that I "allegedly" did without asking for an explanation, it'd tell me the following:

1) that she has absolutely no respect for me as she raised her hand against me.
2) that she's a "ticking time bomb," not in control of her emotions; ready to explode at any time.
3) that I'm guilty until proven innocent.
4) that she's insecure, probably with very low-self esteem.

I can't tell you what to do with your life but I just wanted you to know what was on my mind.

Good luck.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Rollo, I commend you on sharing your experiences with your healthy marriage, and I agree with your post 100%.

There is one thing that seems to be overlooked with backbreakers situation.

Human error. People make mistakes, and we all know women are run on emotions, and that tends to overspill.

It is a matter of respect. I think if backbreaker finds his leadership in this relationship, this whole thing could actually make the relationship stronger.

People make mistakes, it's leadership that can guide people to learn from them.

For backbreaker to just throw in the cards and leave, it almost seems like a cowardly thing to do, imo. Of course if this becomes a pattern, leaving is no choice, but after one mistake?

As you stated, he already is invested with this gal by having a child with her. He needs to lead this relationship in the right direction. That's what being a man is all about.

 

[cordoncordon]

Only insecure men place their eggs in one basket; the result is jealousy.

Guys who spin plates don't get jealous. If you've got several women involved, it just doesn't matter who one particular girl is with...because you can move on to the next one. It's that simple.

But, sure, it's normal to feel jealous if you're invested in one particular girl. Morbidly jealous, though? No way. I'm not accepting that.

I just refuse to allow anyone to keep tabs on me and to control who I speak to or sleep with, etc. My mother kept tabs on me until i was 18. But no one else has that right. I'm 39 years old!

I'd rather live and die alone than have someone dominate me.

Ok but that's you. You don't want a relationship with anyone, and that is fine. However, for those that do want to have an exclusive relationship, and for those that live with that other person AND have a child with them, it is not to much to expect the two people involved to tell each other such normal and mundane things like the name of the assistant, he is training her, and he is meeting her for a training session at the nearby Starbucks. I mean that is just so common sense to me, and what I think many of you are missing. Either BB was in fact interested in the assistant, or he is still playing games with his fiance by not telling her something so simple. There is just no logical reason or excuse to not tell his fiance these things. If he had, these fantasies that his fiancee concocted up in her mind, and that led to the fight, would never have happened. Good communication is by far bar none the #1 key to a happy relationship, and in this case, it appears there wasn't any, even though BB has said in the past how much they actually do together and talk.

 

[cordoncordon]

It helps to read the thread.

I meant his fiancee didn't know the assistants name.

 

[5string]

Good thread but hey, what about forgiveness? I thought about this. Don't know what I'd do if Mrs.5string slapped me. I know I would not hit her back. I have too much self control. Would I tell her that was a dealbreaker and to GTFO? Don't know. Suppose it would depend on the circumstances. I would not have rewarded it though by giving it up to her, that's for sure. People make mistakes. She sure did. It's up to BB to either forgive and forget or move on. It's cool he spilled his guts here and you can tell he was hurt by this. Hitting another person is not the worst thing a human being can do to another. Personally, I'd rather get slapped than have some chick empty my bank account or trash my house in a fit of rage. Forgiveness may seem AFC to alot of guys, but I think it's an ability/trait which should be valued.

 

[cordoncordon]

Good thread but hey, what about forgiveness? I thought about this. Don't know what I'd do if Mrs.5string slapped me. I know I would not hit her back. I have too much self control. Would I tell her that was a dealbreaker and to GTFO? Don't know. Suppose it would depend on the circumstances. I would not have rewarded it though by giving it up to her, that's for sure. People make mistakes. She sure did. It's up to BB to either forgive and forget or move on. It's cool he spilled his guts here and you can tell he was hurt by this. Hitting another person is not the worst thing a human being can do to another. Personally, I'd rather get slapped than have some chick empty my bank account or trash my house in a fit of rage. Forgiveness may seem AFC to alot of guys, but I think it's an ability/trait which should be valued.

Agree and well said. Forgiveness and understanding of women is something you won't find a lot on this site. The thing is, most of the guys on here have been severely hurt by women most of their lives, which is what led them to this site. So most....if they are not pure women haters, at least have some issues with them....and hence a bias. That is why so many are so quick to say next when something like this happens. In reality, BB has a kid with this woman and they are engaged. To me its just not realistic to say "ok game over' with this women over one incident, especially since I blame them both equally.

 

[SoldMySoul]

This thread should be titled, "HOW TO GET YOUR RESPECT BACK AFTER IT HAS BEEN TAKEN?" I would have never aired my $hit out like this as it has turned into a three ring circus with opinions. Bottom line is how do you get that respect back is what would be my concern? I cannot say if BB leaving is his best option since he has a child with Rocky, but at the very least she needs to be on PROBATION!!

The slap itself was not the worst imo, it was the complete lack of respect.... That feeling inside of being disrespected lingers a lot longer than the sting and surprise from being struck like an everlast bag.

 

[cordoncordon]

This thread should be titled, "HOW TO GET YOUR RESPECT BACK AFTER IT HAS BEEN TAKEN?" I would have never aired my $hit out like this as it has turned into a three ring circus with opinions. Bottom line is how do you get that respect back is what would be my concern? I cannot say if BB leaving is his best option since he has a child with Rocky, but at the very least she needs to be on PROBATION!!

The slap itself was not the worst imo, it was the complete lack of respect.... That feeling inside of being disrespected lingers a lot longer than the sting and surprise from being struck like an everlast bag.

Agree here as well. Standing there and taking her slaps is just inexcusable, but what is even worse is having endless amounts of sex with her after. I mean wtf???

Lets excuse some bad behavior because hey, "I got laid!". She now knows she holds the cards in this relationship, because whenever she wants anything or wants to get out of some misbehavior on her part, all she needs to do is spread her legs. IF some girl slapped me like that, I don't think I could just turn around and sex her to that extent.

And I won't even get into the fact that they had what sounds like a marathon sex session for 2-3 days after the fight. First, who WANTS to have sex 10 times in one day?? NOT ME. Just would not feel good after a while. I mean get some sleep, relax, eat, whatever. But that just sounds like overkill to me. To the point of OCD. Something is just "off" in this relationship if you ask me.

 

[SoldMySoul]

To the point of OCD. Something is just "off" in this relationship if you ask me.

I tell what you is off: The complete lack of trust and communication is the trigger here. Then end result, LACK OF RESPECT! BB, was not openly sharing what was up in his life and as a result, Rocky, then becomes jealous and what she sees makes her think the worst.... Then finally she knocks the hell out of him.

Sounds like a story for the chair with some therapy to me. Times like these makes me glad to be single.

1) No Trust
2) No communication
3) No respect *****EQUALS*****

$hitty or no relationship!

 

[Oxide]

Rollo, can you write up a post on your dynamics during dating and the how you knew this was the right girl for you to marry? If you have, please link. Were there certain characteristics you had on your list that you would look for, and what attracted your wife in you?

Thank you

 

[zekko]

for those that do want to have an exclusive relationship, and for those that live with that other person AND have a child with them, it is not to much to expect the two people involved to tell each other such normal and mundane things like the name of the assistant, he is training her, and he is meeting her for a training session at the nearby Starbucks

This is why when you are in a real relationship, you don't play games. I know a lot of guys here would say things like "keep up the mystery" and "make her wonder". But you see with this situation what the end result of that can be, and your relationship can crash and burn. I think relationships are for guys who are tired of the head games.

Forgiveness and understanding of women is something you won't find a lot on this site.

Well, that's obviously true. Probably 99% of the advice on this forum in response to girl problems is "next her". Actually, a lot of the time that's pretty good advice. I just don't think that's the case in this situation.

Since she thought Backbreaker was cheating, I think her actions are understandable. Obviously what she did was wrong, but the question is what do you do about it? Both people have a lot invested in this relationship, and sometimes you have to forgive.

To really make the call on this, you would have to be closer to the situation than we are on this forum. You'd have to know what her day to day behavior is, and what their relationship is like. That way you would know if this is a pattern or a one time thing. That's information we simply don't have, but Backbreaker does, so I would trust him to make the right call.

 

[cordoncordon]

This is why when you are in a real relationship, you don't play games. I know a lot of guys here would say things like "keep up the mystery" and "make her wonder". But you see with this situation what the end result of that can be, and your relationship can crash and burn. I think relationships are for guys who are tired of the head games.


Well, that's obviously true. Probably 99% of the advice on this forum in response to girl problems is "next her". Actually, a lot of the time that's pretty good advice. I just don't think that's the case in this situation.

Since she thought Backbreaker was cheating, I think her actions are understandable. Obviously what she did was wrong, but the question is what do you do about it? Both people have a lot invested in this relationship, and sometimes you have to forgive.

To really make the call on this, you would have to be closer to the situation than we are on this forum. You'd have to know what her day to day behavior is, and what their relationship is like. That way you would know if this is a pattern or a one time thing. That's information we simply don't have, but Backbreaker does, so I would trust him to make the right call.

Well said.

 

[boomerick]

BB--

I was in a situation close enough to this----


What I did.....

I left her for 2 days no contact....

I saw a lawyer to sort out best and worse case senarios.....

When I came back I had written a list of conditions that she MUST abide by and never deviate from....

Also a list of behaviours that were unacceptable....(including jealousy and violence)

I let her know that any SINGLE violation of ANY of the listed items would result in my immeadiate disapearence...

The utillities would be shut down in one week intervals phone and cell phone immeadiately...

The house and car left unpaid (gonna loose them anyway).....

Any and all contact would be through lawyers ....

Legal moves would begin that day.....

I made her read out loud and inital each item and sign and date the bottom of the document that she agreed with everything on it...

Not for the legality but to force her total suplication and to harpoon the rationalization hampster....

I put the DREAD back in her like never before...

And I meant it then and mean it now....

ANY bad behavoiur and I'm OUT....

Regained the frame ...

She's better than she's ever been.....

Never another problem.......

She got her one get out of jail free card .....

She's on perminent parole and she knows it...

This may not stop some kind of eventual bad behaviour but its liberating to me to know exactly what I'll do and how I'll do it if the BS starts.....

A little over the top ??? Probably.....

Game changer???? Definately.....

This will only work though if you are truly willful enough to walk.....

I was and am.....

Am I a p*ssy AFC for going back??? some probably will think so....

Am I now in a terrific relationship with a great wife where I still have my kids and stuff???? so far so good (2 years now)

Did put this out here because I'm a cheap AW???...No..I'm just trying to show that it is possible to go through sh!t , give her another chance, and to regain any lost frame.....(and continue to be a father to your kids)

Over and Out.

 

[guru1000]

Good post Boomerick.

The only crime BackBreaker committed was not outlining what is and isn't acceptable. BB needs to carefully craft non-negotiable guidelines and overtly communicate these boundaries to his partner. I would further state this is simply a result of BB not properly (overtly) communicating his boundaries from the beginning; and it's natural consequence. It is "human" to behave in inappropriate ways during a perceived 'crisis' (within our upbringing and belief system), if not properly guided.

Yes, BB did not qualify this woman properly; however, if her only mishap is aggressive jealousy, she is not a lost cause (given the context of a child involved.)

Backbreaker, keep her and ---------

Lay down the law.

 

[wait_out]

So if you walked in on your gf or wife at a bar lets say, and you had no idea that she was meeting this guy nor did you know who he was, you would be perfectly alright with that and say hey, "I have no right to ask her why she's meeting some strange dude here". Really? LOL I don't think so.

CC -- feeling uncomfortable and asking what's happening, is slightly different from me subsequently and silently going through her phone/internet history, trailing her across town, vividly imagining and confirming worst-case scenarios in my head, and then losing my sh*t and taking it out on her physically the first chance I get once we're alone together in our own house.

I'm not above forgiveness, but if a girl is this insecure or has such poor emotional coping skills, it is something she needs to work on. These kinds of relationships are doomed unless she can either improve her ability to trust and communicate, or you can manage her so that she never runs into another trigger again.

Say it was a "temporary glitch" -- what's that? A harder trigger than usual? Hormones? You can be high-functioning in your entire life and be a complete catastrophe in your love life. Until you understand why exactly this happened, it risks a sequel. The marathon sex makes it feel a million miles away... but dude... it never is...

You're not going to be able to help her much, if you don't understand what's driving her behaviour.