Is it even worth it for a guy like me to try with making moves in-person?

SW15

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Mainly my unfamiliarity with social norms.
Adherence to social norms will help a lot with getting laid.

If you were 6'0"+ with big muscles and low body fat, you are likely to get a little bit more leeway in your behavior. However, misreading social cues likely would have an impact there too. You might get a few more non-paid instances of sex, but these sexual encounters would be likelier to be shorter term. Women would not have much tolerance for a lack of adherence to social norms even from a 6'0"+ fit man due to the fact that modern women have abundance of options.

a woman can coast through life with her cooch
This is privilege. If women ever claim to be oppressed, there's a good case as to why they aren't oppressed.

Pussie privilege isn't forever though. For most women, coasting through life on the basis of having a decent cooch will only last until 35-45. As women age, they often report feeling more and more invisible.

With swipe apps, women who would be nearing the age of invisibility can get hundreds of options.
 

GoodMan32

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Adherence to social norms will help a lot with getting laid.

If you were 6'0"+ with big muscles and low body fat, you are likely to get a little bit more leeway in your behavior. However, misreading social cues likely would have an impact there too. You might get a few more non-paid instances of sex, but these sexual encounters would be likelier to be shorter term. Women would not have much tolerance for a lack of adherence to social norms even from a 6'0"+ fit man due to the fact that modern women have abundance of options.
Pretty much the explanation of why my non-paid instances of sex tend to be short-lived (and as you pointed out, even if I was tall/muscular, any extra non-paid sex I'd be able to get would be minimal)
 

SW15

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Pretty much the explanation of why my non-paid instances of sex tend to be short-lived (and as you pointed out, even if I was tall/muscular, any extra non-paid sex I'd be able to get would be minimal)
It would be worthwhile to be muscular to be able to get the extra instances of non-paid sex. Lift weights and play a sport or two.

Women have such abundance now and operate more on "all the feelz" than ever before. A lack of adherence to social norms won't give them "all the feelz".

It's a competitive environment even for neurotypicals.
 

tksniper

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You guys just need to take a trip to Southeast Asia at least once a year. The forum has become like a bunch of people complaining about spoiled milk, whether or not it’s worth it to drink the milk, etc. It’s not the only milk in town. You live in a huge supermarket.
 

Peace and Quiet

If you currently have too many women chasing you, calling you, harassing you, knocking on your door at 2 o'clock in the morning... then I have the simple solution for you.

Just read my free ebook 22 Rules for Massive Success With Women and do the opposite of what I recommend.

This will quickly drive all women away from you.

And you will be able to relax and to live your life in peace and quiet.

corrector

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Mainly my unfamiliarity with social norms.

As some examples:

With the woman I had my last date with (back in 2023), she had to ask me (twice) where we were going on our 2nd date. I had no idea the man was supposed to pick the venue.

Additionally, I failed to get a joke the woman made (a joke which neurotypicals apparently have no problem understanding). That, combined with my refusal to pick a venue for our 2nd date, contributed to why the 2nd date never happened.

Before then, my last date was 2018. At the end of our date, I told her the view from my rooftop is nice. I also told her she could put her leftovers in my fridge. The woman never took me up on the offer for the rooftop or the fridge (I recall a poster on this forum telling me the leftover comment was what blew it for me. He said I came across like my biggest focus was her food; not her)
That has to do with basic game, not social norms, with the second date thing. Your interactions with the opposite sex fall within the sphere of social norms based on what you have posted.

It doesn't sound like you have that much experience and have a scarcity mindset because of a lack of options. Because these things are rare to you, it's easy to dismiss them on in being nerodivergent when in reality, you were dealing with a flakey low-interest women that you were outcome dependent with.
 

BaronOfHair

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You guys just need to take a trip to Southeast Asia at least once a year
And return with a violent case of Leptospirosis, in exchange for those cheap, easy lays procured in Laos and Cambodia. This is a deal more majestic than making the trek to Mosul, so that you can admire the ruins of Nineveh, even if the trade-off = Getting your leg blown off with an IED
 

SummerTime

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Mainly my unfamiliarity with social norms.

As some examples:

With the woman I had my last date with (back in 2023), she had to ask me (twice) where we were going on our 2nd date. I had no idea the man was supposed to pick the venue.

Additionally, I failed to get a joke the woman made (a joke which neurotypicals apparently have no problem understanding). That, combined with my refusal to pick a venue for our 2nd date, contributed to why the 2nd date never happened.

Before then, my last date was 2018. At the end of our date, I told her the view from my rooftop is nice. I also told her she could put her leftovers in my fridge. The woman never took me up on the offer for the rooftop or the fridge (I recall a poster on this forum telling me the leftover comment was what blew it for me. He said I came across like my biggest focus was her food; not her)
Sounds pretty normal to me.
 

corrector

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Good meme there...this culture is good at gaslighting guys. If you are not careful, you'll think you have a mental or personality disorder based on another lady's behaviour. (not to say the OP doesn't suffer from these things, but it doesn't seem to affect his relationship with other guys (ie same sex)...when you have an issue that just affects your interactions women, then it's more of a game issue).
 
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GoodMan32

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That has to do with basic game, not social norms, with the second date thing. Your interactions with the opposite sex fall within the sphere of social norms based on what you have posted.

It doesn't sound like you have that much experience and have a scarcity mindset because of a lack of options. Because these things are rare to you, it's easy to dismiss them on in being nerodivergent when in reality, you were dealing with a flakey low-interest women that you were outcome dependent with.
I'm not sure how low-interest they were.

The one from 2018 approached me at a music festival (We then spent the rest of the festival together. Then we went out to eat after).

The one from 2023 sat on a bench chatting with me for 2 and a half hours after our date.

Aren't those signs of high interest (or at the very least, medium interest)?
 

corrector

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I'm not sure how low-interest they were.

The one from 2018 approached me at a music festival (We then spent the rest of the festival together. Then we went out to eat after).

The one from 2023 sat on a bench chatting with me for 2 and a half hours after our date.

Aren't those signs of high interest (or at the very least, medium interest)?
What action did you do with them? What base did you get to? There is a book called "How To Succeed With Women", Ron Louis and.David Copelamd, would recommend that you find this and give it a read with an open mind. It sounds like it would do you some good. It sounds like you just need some basic guidance in directing the flow to the romantic rather than being scatterbrained and either putting them off or ending up in the friendzone.

Did you set up the atmosphere in your home for seduction? You need to have a 2nd seduction date planned out from beginning to end. That book will fill in the details.
 
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MatureDJ

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I remember a poster on here once told me I might as well inform women right off the bat that I'm on the spectrum (so they don't get freaked out when my spectrum behavior inevitably comes out). That's problematic too. A lot of normies view being on the spectrum as synonymous with being mentally challenged. I'd rather have normies think I'm strange than mentally challenged. I've never disclosed my spectrum status to any woman I've been interested in.
I can't think of a better phrase for a man to decrease a chick's desire than to say that he is "on the spectrum". :rolleyes:
 

SW15

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I can't think of a better phrase for a man to decrease a chick's desire than to say that he is "on the spectrum". :rolleyes:
It would be a bad idea to say it. Nevertheless, the inevitable behavior would eventually turn off a woman. Women operate on feelings and there are likely spectrum behaviors that would not give them the good feelings they need to feel attraction.
 

Fruitbat

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Ok. Fair enough. In that case, I guess I'm in the same boat as the typical man (where I have to fail a lot online before I finally succeed). That being said, the fact still remains that I've had better luck online than I've had with making a move in person (which isn't saying much)
the world changed 2010-2015. Apps are the places a lot of people go, after that it’s work and friends.

By in-person are you envisaging the chance encounter on the street? The enraptured damsel who meets your gaze and is irresistibly drawn to you?

id done marginally better than you at your age but that was down to 1/ being a DJ in my early 20s and 2/ the fairly good number of one night stands from clubbing, holidays and just generally being drunk and/or meeting drunk women.

it’s a bit like the animals at the watering hole. Go where the girls looking for “it” go. Apps are where they go, bars and clubs is where they go. Other than that it’s social circle, social clubs, church (for you Americans, the only people who go to church in UK are devout bible bashers who would want marriage first!) and work.
Usually in the work/social group you have to be pretty sure before asking but that’s cool, as women make it super easy for you and make it obvious usually if they want your time and attention. There’s no ambiguity when a woman wants to date you, they are either super chatty or act embarrassed yet very friendly. Either is easy to pick.
 

Dr_jitsu

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I've had 9 free sex partners. That being said, the "make a move on a woman in person; get laid" strategy has never gotten me laid.

Of my 9 free partners,
  • 7 came from hookup websites.
  • 2 just sort of happened (with neither of us making the move).
I've also been on dates with 8 different gals. There's very little overlap between my dates and my intercourse (7 of the 8 gals I've had dates with were sexless).

The "make a move in person; get a date" strategy has only worked on one girl (Back when I was in college. And she was extremely strange. I had to break it off shortly into our relationship. Also, it's worth mentioning: She's one of my many sexless dates).

The rest of my dates came from the following strategies:
  • Dating/hookup websites.
  • The woman making the move on me.
  • The date sort of just happened (with neither of us making the move).
So here's my question: Since making a move in person has given me a 0% success rate at getting laid (and only a minimal success rate at getting a date, with a girl I ended up regretting anyway), is it even worth it for me to try with in-person approaches? Or should I stick with methods that have given me more success (Dating/hookup websites. Waiting for the woman to approach me. Allowing it to just sort of happen, with neither of us making the move)?

One more thing I should mention on my OP: I know many of you are aware of my escort habit. I'm going to request everyone refrain from turning this into an escort thread. This thread isn't about escorts; it's about my successes/failures at getting a free woman (and how to maximize the odds of getting a free woman)
I have not read all the posts on this thread. This is my first post on this forum, although I used to read it very often many years ago when I was developing my own system for seduction, romance, dating, and eventually marriage. I Have been happily married for 18 years. Before that I was a very successful dater managing a 3 woman rotation (they call them plates here on this forum). During that time I was very active on the old MASF and actually knew many of the old PUA's going back to the guys in the (now old) book by Neil Strauss.

Before that I had a period where I was unsuccessful with women.

Going from a lack of success to to success took a long time of hard work, discipline, and development of my game. The reason I am posting is that the same can happen for you. Take seduction seriously. Thake the game seriously. Prepare yourself for periods of failure in order to eventually become successful with women.

You can do it if you are willing to do the work, develop the mindset, and the skills.

Start by reading the top material here on this forum, starting with an old poster known as Pook, and then maybe Anti Dump.

Good luck!
 

Dr_jitsu

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There is so much to unpack here but the problem, once again as is so often is that people think "if I do X then Y HAS to occur". No it doesn't.

There are so many nuances, so many variables that just because you do X, doesn't mean that Y is going to happen regardless.

I think the issue is you want some "fail proof way" of doing it when that doesn't exist and never has and never will.

It's ALL trial and error, trying something and failing, making adjustments and then trying something else.

It's mind boggling that people think this is somehow different than anything else in life.

When you first started riding a bike as a kid, did things go exactly to plan the first time you did it? What about the second, the third, the fiftieth?

Did you just throw your hands up and say, oh well I guess I will give up. Most likely no. You kept at it and kept at it and figured out how to do it and became good at it.

So if you could do that as a little kid and you knew the best way to improve at something is to keep working at and working at it, why are adults unable to simply get out of their own way with their negativity, self doubt and terrible self talk that basically ensures they will never improve and just give up?

I don't get it. Never have, Never will. People are their own worst enemies.

The answer is OP, you need to fail more.

The people who have become successful at this have failed 10 times more than you have even attempted. Minimum. Probably more like 50 or 100 times more.

They didn't care. They got back up and tried again.

So honestly unless you are wanting to change your mindset from having a loser mentality to having a winner mentality, then it's probably not worth it.

Precisely. You need to start at the beginning, which is getting good at opening women. There is lots of material dedicated to this topic, use both natural and canned game. We always want to eventually become naturals, but use canned game until you develop your natural abilities.

Set out to open a woman a day every day. That is 30 women a month. Accept failure...you may number close only 7-8 out of those 30, and date close only 2-3 out of those 7-8 and maybe only get 1 second date. That is OK, it is a process. Each failure moves you closer to success.

Eventually, you will get better. Your number/date/kiss/sex closes will get better over time. I always say "Date like a Samurai." You are going to fall on your sword a lot. So what?
 

corrector

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I have not read all the posts on this thread. This is my first post on this forum, although I used to read it very often many years ago when I was developing my own system for seduction, romance, dating, and eventually marriage. I Have been happily married for 18 years. Before that I was a very successful dater managing a 3 woman rotation (they call them plates here on this forum). During that time I was very active on the old MASF and actually knew many of the old PUA's going back to the guys in the (now old) book by Neil Strauss.

Before that I had a period where I was unsuccessful with women.

Going from a lack of success to to success took a long time of hard work, discipline, and development of my game. The reason I am posting is that the same can happen for you. Take seduction seriously. Thake the game seriously. Prepare yourself for periods of failure in order to eventually become successful with women.

You can do it if you are willing to do the work, develop the mindset, and the skills.

Start by reading the top material here on this forum, starting with an old poster known as Pook, and then maybe Anti Dump.

Good luck!
The world changed allot in the past 18 years.
 

Dr_jitsu

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The world changed allot in the past 18 years.

It has. Dating and male/female relationships have gotten worse. In fact they are the worst is human history. Cave men had it better. A big driver of the problem is technology. Our culture is also terrible and has declared war on men, especially young men who want to start families

However human beings have not changed. Over 190k years we evolved to be the way we are and except for the ability to process dairy and grains humans have not changed. For example, the female brain is still white matter/process oriented. The male brain is Grey matter, what I call problem solution oriented. If you understand the female brain and how to drive interest levels up in women you can still be successful in dating. It is just harder and there are more minefields. You have to have a system. You can develop a system by examining all the top posts and posters here on this forum.

It requires work, discipline, and the right mindset. I am old, long married, and not that good looking anymore at the age of 62....but I still open (start conversations) with women all the time. If I were 20 years older (before I was married, my wife is beautiful and much younger than me...she still gets carded when we go out) I would still be dating and running a 3 woman rotation.
 

Never try to read a woman's mind. It is a scary place. Ignore her confusing signals and mixed messages. Assume she is interested in you and act accordingly.

Quote taken from The SoSuave Guide to Women and Dating, which you can read for FREE.

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