Is it true very few men in the world are "naturals" with women? It's like these guys, men, never had to learn "game", it was always second nature

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

"you gotta break some eggs to make an omellete. im sure i creeped out tons of girls over the years".

That was a powerful quote or statement I heard from another guy, a dating coach, who gives advice to men, it's in regards to men getting better at just approaching or interacting with women. I just want to be sure I interpret it or have the right mindset and that is, men even have to risk getting labeled creepy or just even screw up and mess up interactions, that results in getting negative reactions from women as in the woman is uncomfortable from the man's presence, makes her feel uncomfortable As in its part of the journey of getting better, do I have the right mindset or not?

"It's the learning process. EVERY guy goes through that. Every GIRL goes through similar things, where she reacted in some awkward way to a guy, shooed away a guy she regrets shooing away and now assumes probably hates her, etc., etc. The way you deal with it is by continuing to improve socially, so you can be SMOOTH instead of awkward. This is what everyone does, men and women alike. It is part of the GROWING UP PROCESS."

so is making mistakes socially with women, as in, getting labeled or perceived as creepy or weird when approaching, messing up interactions in which the woman was uncomfortable, is that part of the process of getting better?

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Confession, i will admit, obviously i'm not proud of it, i do have mild, high functioning autism, obviously that is going to prevent a guy from becoming or being a natural with women.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

For the normal dude taking advice from people that are genetically gifted is a lose lose proposition. Take advice from men in your attractiveness tier, they’ve put in the work.

It’s like looking at the social accounts of fitness influencers they’re all on PEDs, but claim to be natty. And you’ll look like them if you only buy their program or subscribe…

 

[Manure Spherian]

Confession, i will admit, obviously i'm not proud of it, i do have mild, high functioning autism, obviously that is going to prevent a guy from becoming or being a natural with women.

There is content out there for improving social skills with autism.

You do not have to be a so-called natural to get a woman.

 

[Manure Spherian]

so is making mistakes socially with women, as in, getting labeled or perceived as creepy or weird when approaching, messing up interactions in which the woman was uncomfortable, is that part of the process of getting better?

A women getting approached by a harmless guy she doesn’t like is going to be just fine. So is the guy, although repeated rejection can take a toll on womanless men after awhile.

I personally don’t think there is “getting better” at talking to women. Some women will like you, and some won’t, and that’s not dependent on being an amazing conversationalist.

 

[itouchyou]

I think it comes from simply being attractive at a young age.

At a young age you either receive positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, or in some cases, nothing at all.

If a guy is attractive to other girls in middle school or even high school, he will have women checking him out, smiling at him, guys inviting him to do stuff, and will have social proof. His social skills will develop naturally just by being present. He will likely get a girlfriend or two. He might get laid at a party. Whatever.

Those experiences early on will give him the confidence to continue having those experiences in college.


Without any of those experiences, guys will struggle and have to learn "game" because they never had those natural learning experiences in their youth. I think it's really that simple. It's all looks based positive reinforcement that allows guys to be low inhibition and figure out what works and what doesn't because they have the confidence to do so via external validation.

My close friend probably had more game that anyone on this forum by the time he was in his early 30s. Just an insanely charismatic/social guy who could read all kinds of people no matter the situation. It's really just simple social skills applied to women.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

I think it comes from simply being attractive at a young age.

At a young age you either receive positive reinforcement or negative reinforcement, or in some cases, nothing at all.

If a guy is attractive to other girls in middle school or even high school, he will have women checking him out, smiling at him, guys inviting him to do stuff, and will have social proof. His social skills will develop naturally just by being present. He will likely get a girlfriend or two. He might get laid at a party. Whatever.

Those experiences early on will give him the confidence to continue having those experiences in college.


Without any of those experiences, guys will struggle and have to learn "game" because they never had those natural learning experiences in their youth. I think it's really that simple. It's all looks based positive reinforcement that allows guys to be low inhibition and figure out what works and what doesn't because they have the confidence to do so via external validation.

My close friend probably had more game that anyone on this forum by the time he was in his early 30s. Just an insanely charismatic/social guy who could read all kinds of people no matter the situation. It's really just simple social skills applied to women.

yup, that sounds very believable to me, but at the same time, i believe there are lots of guys out there who are handsome and good looking who still never had success with girls at a young age like you described, i strongly believe there are lots of stud good looking men out there who are horrible with women. Especially since its kinda proven that even if a guy or man is handsome and good looking, that won't be enough for him to be good with women.

 

[SW15]

Rule #1: Be very good looking. Elite level looks is what I'm talking about here.

Very good looks will get you far.

 

[Divorced w 3]

Personality wise I learned from the best there ever was at c0cky funny from a very young age. Right or wrong, I exude confidence

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I was the class clown who got kicked out of four schools, lost my virginity at 12, but didn't get a real gf until I was 17 (she was 24). I wasn't handsome, but I was quick-witted and I have a good touch. I got quite a few rejections until I learned how to read signals better and got my flow, after that I was never without at least 1-2 girlfriends.

 

[Mike32ct]

I was Wizard-lite. Didn’t lose virginity until 28.

It wouldn’t be a big deal at all today, but it was way outside the norm for a Gen X back in the day.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

I was Wizard-lite. Didn’t lose virginity until 28.

It wouldn’t be a big deal at all today, but it was way outside the norm for a Gen X back in the day.

how do you feel about retaining the v-card until then? i assume you mean you used to suck with women pretty bad

 

[Mike32ct]

how do you feel about retaining the v-card until then? i assume you mean you used to suck with women pretty bad

Not thrilled about it lol because it wasn’t by choice. I definitely sucked really bad then. Went through high school and college with not even a female friend let alone a gf. I only got to talk to chicks when it was strictly necessary such as if she was a lab partner or we had a quick chat about class stuff.

OLD was brand new in those days but I finally met somebody on there at 28 and dated for a few months.

 

[BaronOfHair]

What do you think? it seems a lot of dating coaches or pick up artists, seduction guru's, make it out to be that guys, men, are supposed or meant to have mentors or mentors in all of this.

This is similar to becoming a first-rate stand-up comic. Yes, there are genuine prodigies like Eddie Murphy who can command an entire theater at 20, and there guys who gain access to damn near every girl in school's pants during high school, only to falter terribly afterwards. The latter are essentially the Dice Clays and Dane Cooks of womanizing

All the rest of us have exert diligent and daily effort, if we want to get further ahead in life

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Not thrilled about it lol because it wasn’t by choice. I definitely sucked really bad then. Went through high school and college with not even a female friend let alone a gf. I only got to talk to chicks when it was strictly necessary such as if she was a lab partner or we had a quick chat about class stuff.

OLD was brand new in those days but I finally met somebody on there at 28 and dated for a few months.

yeah reminds me of an article of a guy from the UK that i sometimes wish i never read at times, he didn't finally lose the v-card until later than you, but he did avoid Andy Spitzler(Steve Carrell's character) by a few years though.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

There is content out there for improving social skills with autism.

You do not have to be a so-called natural to get a woman.

yeah i can believe that, one thing that helped me, no regrets, is that lowering your standards can be helpful, a good analogy i like for guys, men, is that, success with women is like lifting weights, it helps a lot to aim or go for lower caliber women, women who don't have as much options, who don't get much attention, use them as practice before moving on to higher caliber women, and here is my counter argument to whenever people say that isn't fair to women, because thats like, those women are being used, how would you feel if you found out the woman you were with was using you in that manner, and my argument is, since when was life and reality fair?

Just like a lot of people think, agree, i know i'm no exception to this, that life and reality can be unfair due to how for all time, men have always been expected to do the approaching and asking out, making the first move all the time and being the initiators, a lot of people view it as, men having to do all the work or put in all the effort in dating, while women can just sit back and relax and just let it all happen for them.

Because women will never know what its like being in mans shoes when it comes to dating, men are naturally in scarcity with women, women are naturally in abundance with men, we as men, we don't know what its like to have women throwing themselves at us, constantly hitting on us, pursuing us or shooting their shot with us, so gaining practice and experience with lower caliber women, using them as lifting weights for pursuing higher caliber women, i feel is very helpful, momentum building, do it for the reference experience.

I thought to myself, sometimes we have to do cruel things or unfair things, be selfish, in order to improve or get better at things in life. Besides, the only way a guy, man, can become a better leader or get better at taking the lead with women, is only if women will follow him, if a guy keeps going for women who reject him, then the man won't become better at leading or taking the lead, it takes 2 to tango, and it helps to aim for women who are of lower caliber, since they are more likely to follow a mans lead due to them being less picky from the less options they have.

If there was a kinder and compassionate way, then yes i would choose that option, but when it feels like there is no other way, then **** it.

 

[jhonny9546]

Agreed. This is a big part of it. But a boy, that grows up around men that are successful with women, will develop attractive traits.

If you had older brothers that were good with the ladies... it was because they were fit, socially successful, and had attractive characteristics.... you are much more likely to emulate the men around you.

In contrast, if you grew up with a hen-pecked dad... whose philosophy with women was "happy wife: happy life" and just supplicated to her in the interest of avoiding conflict was a coach potato, with bad habits... well that will be your future unless you pull yourself out of that mid-set.

If when you are growing up around men with attractive characteristics, you are much more likely to develop attractive habits... thus, by default the man will be more attractive.

And when you grow up in a blue-pilled context, with a blue-pilled father, that is not good. Additionally, I've always wondered: if a woman grows up in a context like that, can she be blue-pilled for her entire life and search for a blue-pilled life, or is that just a man thing?

 

[SW15]

I've always wondered: if a woman grows up in a context like that, can she be blue-pilled for her entire life and search for a blue-pilled life, or is that just a man thing?

My take is that the blue pill, red pill, and black pill framework applies mainly towards men's views on romantic relationships.

Nevertheless, I do think there'd be some effect if a young girl grew up with a henpecked father. That is likely to have some impact on how she perceives romantic relationships. It would depend upon her mother's character too. It's possible to have a benign woman with a henpecked husband. That might have happened more in the older generations (Boomers, Silents, GI). A henpecked Millennial man with a Millennial girlfriend/wife in her 30s/early 40s today is going to be much different. That Millennial female is far more likely to have toxic traits.

 

[Manure Spherian]

And when you grow up in a blue-pilled context, with a blue-pilled father, that is not good. Additionally, I've always wondered: if a woman grows up in a context like that, can she be blue-pilled for her entire life and search for a blue-pilled life, or is that just a man thing?

Likely the reason why the “daddy issues” term is actually realistic and why young women lust for anti-social and criminal men is because young women do not respect men who are incapable of doing damage to other men. And these are usually their blue-pilled, air-headed, and in some cases negligent dads. So I think in many cases having blue pilled dads produce women with behaviors that fit the black pill.

I think the reason my mom and her sister behaved their whole lives is because my grandfather was actually scary and once assaulted a man for threatening my uncle.

I’m a black-pilled dad.

 

[RangerMIke]

And when you grow up in a blue-pilled context, with a blue-pilled father, that is not good. Additionally, I've always wondered: if a woman grows up in a context like that, can she be blue-pilled for her entire life and search for a blue-pilled life, or is that just a man thing?

My experience with women who grew up without a positive male role model in their lives are really hard to date. They just do not know what a good man is and in many cases do not know how or are unwilling to do those things needed to keep a good man around. It's actually very very sad. They go from one bad relationship to another and this becomes their norm. And if they try... well they are never really happy.