Is it true very few men in the world are "naturals" with women? It's like these guys, men, never had to learn "game", it was always second nature

[Hamurabimbi]

The implication of this thread. Which I believe is wrong. Is that women are passive participants in the process. In fact. Women are often active collaborators and even the primary actors on occasion.
The upshot being that ‘naturals’ have this success not necessarily because of innate/learned ‘game’ or social skills…. But. Because women want them. Maybe simply because they find the guy physically attractive. And women will act.

 

[Manure Spherian]

The implication of this thread. Which I believe is wrong. Is that women are passive participants in the process. In fact. Women are often active collaborators and even the primary actors on occasion.
The upshot being that ‘naturals’ have this success not necessarily because of innate/learned ‘game’ or social skills…. But. Because women want them. Maybe simply because they find the guy physically attractive. And women will act.

Spot on. See my post above yours. The notion of game being something that can be learned or copied that results in anything consequential implies it can be used to out-alpha more attractive men. Supposedly we can all out game powerful men.

I’ve had a modest amount of women and I’ve never gamed any or laid on slick lines of sh-t.

This is my personal take, which is obviously at odds with others here.

 

[nicksaiz65]

I'm going to try this thought experiment.

In thinking about a man's general lifestyle in Dallas, it would be possible but difficult to exist without a car in the Dallas area. This is a man who would need to live close to a light rail station (DART) or some Dallas bus stops in order to get to some job 5 days a week. That doesn't sound pleasant. He would have to be walkable to certain grocery stores too. There are some Central Dallas areas where this could happen.

Riding a bicycle to work in Dallas also sounds like a bad idea. Dallas is hot for a good portion of the year. I can imagine some unpleasant bus rides.

I found some Reddit threads about carless life in Dallas.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Dallas/comments/4hv5x0
https://www.reddit.com/r/askdfw/comments/mtmj4r
https://www.reddit.com/r/askdfw/comments/w79fn6

I haven't even gotten to the topic of finding dates yet or going on dates as a carless man in the Dallas area.

I don't know how that would work. Getting to date venues carless would be difficult. A lot of Dallas area women would negatively judge a man for not having a car.

I think that you could argue by the time you add up the cost of all those Ubers, Instacarts/Walmart+ orders(because sometimes you need stuff that isn't near your local grocery), and any public transit, that it would be equal to or greater than the cost of a car note, even from one of those sh!tty "buy here pay here" lenders. This doesn't even account for the opportunity cost of waiting around for the public transit.

If you run the numbers in your budget, I think you'd be shocked.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

The implication of this thread. Which I believe is wrong. Is that women are passive participants in the process. In fact. Women are often active collaborators and even the primary actors on occasion.
The upshot being that ‘naturals’ have this success not necessarily because of innate/learned ‘game’ or social skills…. But. Because women want them. Maybe simply because they find the guy physically attractive. And women will act.

well thats how its always been for all time, women have always played a passive role in human mating, interactions between the 2 sexes, if women were not passive partipants, then women would approach men often or ask guys out often, women be the initiators, but we all know that normally never happens and normally never will.

 

[Manure Spherian]

women be the initiators, but we all know that normally never happens and normally never will.

Women throw themselves at high-status men. Some men have to fight them off.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

well thats how its always been for all time, women have always played a passive role in human mating, interactions between the 2 sexes, if women were not passive partipants, then women would approach men often or ask guys out often, women be the initiators, but we all know that normally never happens and normally never will.

Women do approach. While it may not be the 'norm'. It certainly does happen. I can attest.

What I love about this clip, is that this kind of stuff DOES happen in real life. Yes. I know it's a TV show and Don is a gigachad. But. This kind of stuff absolutely does happen. MadMen is a legit show.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Women throw themselves at high-status men. Some men have to fight them off.

well i can believe that, but women approaching men, i don't see that ever changing, always in the minority, and probably even more rare for a woman to ask a guy out or be the one to number close a guy.

 

[RangerMIke]

The implication of this thread. Which I believe is wrong. Is that women are passive participants in the process. In fact. Women are often active collaborators and even the primary actors on occasion.
The upshot being that ‘naturals’ have this success not necessarily because of innate/learned ‘game’ or social skills…. But. Because women want them. Maybe simply because they find the guy physically attractive. And women will act.

Agreed. This is a big part of it. But a boy, that grows up around men that are successful with women, will develop attractive traits.

If you had older brothers that were good with the ladies... it was because they were fit, socially successful, and had attractive characteristics.... you are much more likely to emulate the men around you.

In contrast, if you grew up with a hen-pecked dad... whose philosophy with women was "happy wife: happy life" and just supplicated to her in the interest of avoiding conflict was a coach potato, with bad habits... well that will be your future unless you pull yourself out of that mid-set.

If when you are growing up around men with attractive characteristics, you are much more likely to develop attractive habits... thus, by default the man will be more attractive.

 

[Gamisch]

reason why a lot of people think naturals do exist, is because, those are the guys, men, who never had to seek help from a dating coach or pick up artist, seduction coach, or never had to go on a forum like this or never had to read a book on seduction, dating, in their whole lives, they just always knew how to successfully attract women, get girlfriends easily.

You simply never knows what one does to reach whatever goal. For all you know your " natural friends " bought DVDs about the subject but hide it from anyone else like it was leprechaun pron.

I agree that there's ALWAYS a price to pay: you might attract women, but that will indeed make you "lazy" and also keep you in your " default bluepilled factory settings ".

The latter is the perfect bridge to use this analogy; you can see a dude, jacked and broad shoulders. You see him for the first time and think" he looks strong". Little you know he wakes up every day at 5 and goes to the gym to work his azz off. He might LOOK like a natural bog strong guy. But. Despite this he might still FEEL like the chubby nerdy kid he used to be.

If you want to be a natural, then you gotta ACT and conduct yourself like one. One thing imo all " naturals" have in common is that they BELIEVE that they will get the woman one way or another. That she ain't more special than the last one.

Always remember: a NEW woman knows NOTHING about your past life. Especially when it comes to game you can easily fake it till you make it.

 

[Gamisch]

I'd even say that on sosauve the main goal should be to BECOME a ",natural ". A don Juan. A ladies man.

You think mike Tyson didn't train like a maniac despite his God given talents? He was a student of the game.

You can meet a new woman and tell her ( and especially SHOW her) whatever you like. By simply saying HI and smiling at women you are already more like a natural than 75% of men. Now add some cojones to this which enables a man to make moves and close the gap and voila, you come across as a natural.

Practice makes perfect.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

I don’t think one really needs to train to do fine with women. Remember. Women actually do want men. They want sex. They want a relationship.
Just don’t be a weirdo and be reasonably attractive.

 

[Mike32ct]

I don’t believe that “game” (to the extent it even exists) is teachable. A guy either naturally has it, or he works by himself to improve it.

Other guys can answer your questions, but they really can’t transfer their game/vibe/energy to you.

 

[Hamurabimbi]

My Hapacel friend was trying to game a woman. He asked me for advice. I told him his interactions with her appeared flat & robotic. He didn’t seem happy with my critique. He arraigned a hiking date with her, but she ghosted him.

 

[Mike32ct]

My Hapacel friend was trying to game a woman. He asked me for advice. I told him his interactions with her appeared flat & robotic. He didn’t seem happy with my critique. He arraigned a hiking date with her, but she ghosted him.

I hear ya.

I believe in looks like you do.

I don’t so much believe in “game” per se. I think vibe or more properly “energy” as Joy talks about is a better way to think about it.

But obviously looks and vibe/energy are things that are hard to fix by advice alone no matter how constructive and well intended the advice is.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah, videos like this, or even i've seen other dating/seduction coaches say, regarding how guys, men, are meant to or should have a mentor if they suck with women, suck at interacting/attracting them, that men should not feel embarassed or ashamed for seeking help:

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

"you gotta break some eggs to make an omellete. im sure i creeped out tons of girls over the years".

That was a powerful quote or statement I heard from another guy, a dating coach, who gives advice to men, it's in regards to men getting better at just approaching or interacting with women. I just want to be sure I interpret it or have the right mindset and that is, men even have to risk getting labeled creepy or just even screw up and mess up interactions, that results in getting negative reactions from women as in the woman is uncomfortable from the man's presence, makes her feel uncomfortable As in its part of the journey of getting better, do I have the right mindset or not?

"It's the learning process. EVERY guy goes through that. Every GIRL goes through similar things, where she reacted in some awkward way to a guy, shooed away a guy she regrets shooing away and now assumes probably hates her, etc., etc. The way you deal with it is by continuing to improve socially, so you can be SMOOTH instead of awkward. This is what everyone does, men and women alike. It is part of the GROWING UP PROCESS."

so is making mistakes socially with women, as in, getting labeled or perceived as creepy or weird when approaching, messing up interactions in which the woman was uncomfortable, is that part of the process of getting better?

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Confession, i will admit, obviously i'm not proud of it, i do have mild, high functioning autism, obviously that is going to prevent a guy from becoming or being a natural with women.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

For the normal dude taking advice from people that are genetically gifted is a lose lose proposition. Take advice from men in your attractiveness tier, they’ve put in the work.

It’s like looking at the social accounts of fitness influencers they’re all on PEDs, but claim to be natty. And you’ll look like them if you only buy their program or subscribe…

 

[Manure Spherian]

Confession, i will admit, obviously i'm not proud of it, i do have mild, high functioning autism, obviously that is going to prevent a guy from becoming or being a natural with women.

There is content out there for improving social skills with autism.

You do not have to be a so-called natural to get a woman.

 

[Manure Spherian]

so is making mistakes socially with women, as in, getting labeled or perceived as creepy or weird when approaching, messing up interactions in which the woman was uncomfortable, is that part of the process of getting better?

A women getting approached by a harmless guy she doesn’t like is going to be just fine. So is the guy, although repeated rejection can take a toll on womanless men after awhile.

I personally don’t think there is “getting better” at talking to women. Some women will like you, and some won’t, and that’s not dependent on being an amazing conversationalist.