Is it true very few men in the world are "naturals" with women? It's like these guys, men, never had to learn "game", it was always second nature

[AmsterdamAssassin]

why young women lust for anti-social and criminal men is because young women do not respect men who are incapable of doing damage to other men.

Actually, the female ideal is actually the 'rogue with a good heart'. Someone who is familiar with violence and maybe even with damaging other people, but who has himself under control. So she can be safe with him and knows that he's capable of protecting her (if necessary). Since 'rogues' are rare, women often think anti-social / criminal men are a good alternative. And there are, of course, mentally challenged women who just don't know the difference.

 

[BaronOfHair]

"Do you think
centuries
ago
, generations
ago
, guys, men, needed a dating coach or pick up artist, for help in order to learn to know how to meet, talk to and interact, and attract women? Oh Hell No, this need for assistance and help has only emerged very recently"

Nope, in prehistory men got and lost their women by slaughtering all the men in the neighboring tribe, then taking their women. Agrarian civilization resulted in arranged marriages. Dating and closing our own lovers is a perk of modern life

 

[Manure Spherian]

Actually, the female ideal is actually the 'rogue with a good heart'. Someone who is familiar with violence and maybe even with damaging other people, but who has himself under control. So she can be safe with him and knows that he's capable of protecting her (if necessary). Since 'rogues' are rare, women often think anti-social / criminal men are a good alternative. And there are, of course, mentally challenged women who just don't know the difference.

Spot on.

 

[zekko]

I'm referring to guys, men, who got to experience having a girlfriend and losing their virginity in their teenage years, they just seemed to figure it out very early in life

There's more to the world than sex. Think about the guys who lost their virginity early, got a girl pregnant, and had to deal with that.
The grass isn't always greener. There's a reason adults tell teenagers not to have sex, as useless as that may seem.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Nope, in prehistory men got and lost their women by slaughtering all the men in the neighboring tribe, then taking their women. Agrarian civilization resulted in arranged marriages. Dating and closing our own lovers is a perk of modern life

yeah i think i've heard before that arranged marriage was the norm for most of civilization, is men approaching women dynamic, more recent? because people say its been that way since the beginning of time, is there any evidence or proof to support that claim?

 

[jhonny9546]

My experience with women who grew up without a positive male role model in their lives are really hard to date. They just do not know what a good man is and in many cases do not know how or are unwilling to do those things needed to keep a good man around. It's actually very very sad. They go from one bad relationship to another and this becomes their norm. And if they try... well they are never really happy.

How do you spot a woman like that?
I mean, it's easy to spot a "bad" woman, but which are the traits and signals she would give to you about her relationships with her parents'

 

[Hamurabimbi]

Nope, in prehistory men got and lost their women by slaughtering all the men in the neighboring tribe, then taking their women. Agrarian civilization resulted in arranged marriages. Dating and closing our own lovers is a perk of modern life

Proverbs 30:18-19, written, probably 3000 years ago, in agrarian times, implies a man using game.

 

[SW15]

It is true that few men are naturals. Most men are beta males, especially from late Gen X onwards. A Boomer/Gen X beta isn't nearly as bad as a Millennial/Gen Z beta.

Most middle class + men are raised to be prototypical "nice guys" either by their single mom mother or their mom/beta male dad if the parents stayed together. While being a "nice guy" wasn't a death sentence in the sexual marketplace for a Boomer male who came of age in the late 1960s-1970s, it was for their Millennials sons who came of age in the late 1990s-2000s.

Most white collar men are betas at work too. Even if they get to middle management. These are men who can get laid off at any time by their corporate overlords and then have to supplicate for work by filling out hundreds of job applications online and hope one lands.

In terms of dating, most men are now swipe app monkeys where they swipe on lots of females and send lots of messages and get few responses.

Some men dabble in approaching but usually take lots of rejections in person and get discouraged.

 

[jhonny9546]

It is true that few men are naturals. Most men are beta males, especially from late Gen X onwards. A Boomer/Gen X beta isn't nearly as bad as a Millennial/Gen Z beta.

Most middle class + men are raised to be prototypical "nice guys" either by their single mom mother or their mom/beta male dad if the parents stayed together. While being a "nice guy" wasn't a death sentence in the sexual marketplace for a Boomer male who came of age in the late 1960s-1970s, it was for their Millennials sons who came of age in the late 1990s-2000s.

Most white collar men are betas at work too. Even if they get to middle management. These are men who can get laid off at any time by their corporate overlords and then have to supplicate for work by filling out hundreds of job applications online and hope one lands.

In terms of dating, most men are now swipe app monkeys where they swipe on lots of females and send lots of messages and get few responses.

Some men dabble in approaching but usually take lots of rejections in person and get discouraged.

This is the frame of society.
What would solve it?

 

[SummerTime]

I don't know if it is the biggest factor but it is a relevant factor.

@MatureDJ has talked about how attending an all-male high school impacted him socially. The fact that @MatureDJ is discussing this at age 55+ shows how relevant a childhood/adolescence experience is. I have met males who went to all-male high schools and they felt it took years to unwind some of the damage from that experience.

As a man in my early 40s right now, I am still feeling the consequences of multiple relocations from childhood and in my 20s. That has had a lifelong impact on my ability to get dates from social circle connections, meaning that I had to make more effort with other forms of arranging dates (co-ed sports leagues, traditional daygame, nightlife venues, and swipe apps).

In addition, my parents were a terrible married couple with an unhealthy relational dynamic. If my parents had been healthier, it actually might not have served me well because I would have had more blue pill fantasies. My mother, who mainly raised me, raised me a 'nice guy' so I had to unwind the damage of being raised as a 'nice guy'. 'Nice guys' finish last.

I think nice guys finish last mainly because they don't take action. Not for other reasons.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Nice guys finish last because they're boring.

 

[SW15]

I think nice guys finish last mainly because they don't take action. Not for other reasons.

Not taking action would be a problem. I think the problem with "nice guys" runs deeper than that. Nice guys don't get women excited with their behaviors.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

also, i think it was said that, arranged marriage was the norm for most of human civilization, and i don't think guys, men, needed "game" for that, there was no approaching in that i think.

 

[RangerMIke]

How do you spot a woman like that?
I mean, it's easy to spot a "bad" woman, but which are the traits and signals she would give to you about her relationships with her parents'

You can't 'spot' them really. You have to spend time with them on dates. Anyway, when you spend time with them, the most profound character trait is over reaction to small things.... excessively high standards.

They start off VERY accommodating and the beginning of things is really great, then at some point they start overreacting to really little irrelevant things. They tend to believe everything you do is some kind of manipulation. It seems like she is trying very hard to push you away.... take the hint and leave.

She has abandonment issues so she tests you REALLY hard I suppose to make sure you are for real. It's sad really, because good men are just going to walk away: bad men will become abusive: weak men will twist themselves into knots trying to make her happy... these are the men that she keeps, but his behavior is a complete turn off... and all this does is makes her b1tcher and b1tcher until he either walks away or becomes abusive.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah, i'm sure men on the autism spectrum are never close to being a natural.

I read this on a twitter post, it is:

"Women cannot understand how someone(a guy, man, human male) cannot be desired or doesn't have any dating options unless something is seriously wrong with them. They(women) get desired and wanted, sought after, by default have dating options, just for existing and being a normal person, so they assume that's how it is for men, but it's not." never truer words have been said or spoken.

 

[tksniper]

There is no such thing as a “natural” with women. I feel like I’m the closest thing to a “natural” because I was a handsome guy in high school but even I had to learn to be non needy.

I’ve also experienced the pain of being needy. It doesn’t matter if your are handsome if you are needy.

Being handsome just means there is LESS of a chance you’ll be needy.

The whole entire game can be distilled into “being needy vs being non needy.”

Obviously celebs are the MOST non needy.

And losers and nerds are often the MOST needy.

Neediness is a repellent. Non-neediness is an attractant.

Understand this and you understand the attraction.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's like anything else. Everyone has things that come to them like second nature.

Programming/software engineering is something that came that way to me. It's like I just had an inmate understanding of it and people are asking questions and I am confused wondering how they can't see the designs or the pattern because it's right there in front of you to see.

But for them it wasn't.

Same thing with anything. Some people are great at art. Some people are great at starting businesses/making money.
Some people are great with the opposite sex.

And a select few have multiple things they are great in.

For the rest of us, we just have to work harder to become good at those things we aren't naturally good at. How hard depends on where we are starting from.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The Naturals with women I know have two things going for them:

1). They have the looks or feminine facial features

2). They know the women they are compatible with- For example, too many nerdy introvert guys are trying to hit on bar sloots or cheerleader Stacy's. My Chad Southern Gentlemen friend targets southern belle type women, my bro friend targets women at parties and bars, my edgy friend targets other edgy women. There is no magic skeleton key that unlocks every door.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

There is no magic skeleton key that unlocks every door.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

It's like anything else. Everyone has things that come to them like second nature.

Programming/software engineering is something that came that way to me. It's like I just had an inmate understanding of it and people are asking questions and I am confused wondering how they can't see the designs or the pattern because it's right there in front of you to see.

But for them it wasn't.

Same thing with anything. Some people are great at art. Some people are great at starting businesses/making money.
Some people are great with the opposite sex.

And a select few have multiple things they are great in.

For the rest of us, we just have to work harder to become good at those things we aren't naturally good at. How hard depends on where we are starting from.

yeah, it likely depends on how these guys were raised and brought up in their childhood, something must have gone right for them, but meanwhile it went wrong for many other guys which causes them to just be clueless around women.