Is it true very few men in the world are "naturals" with women? It's like these guys, men, never had to learn "game", it was always second nature

[SW15]

It is true that few men are naturals. Most men are beta males, especially from late Gen X onwards. A Boomer/Gen X beta isn't nearly as bad as a Millennial/Gen Z beta.

Most middle class + men are raised to be prototypical "nice guys" either by their single mom mother or their mom/beta male dad if the parents stayed together. While being a "nice guy" wasn't a death sentence in the sexual marketplace for a Boomer male who came of age in the late 1960s-1970s, it was for their Millennials sons who came of age in the late 1990s-2000s.

Most white collar men are betas at work too. Even if they get to middle management. These are men who can get laid off at any time by their corporate overlords and then have to supplicate for work by filling out hundreds of job applications online and hope one lands.

In terms of dating, most men are now swipe app monkeys where they swipe on lots of females and send lots of messages and get few responses.

Some men dabble in approaching but usually take lots of rejections in person and get discouraged.

 

[jhonny9546]

It is true that few men are naturals. Most men are beta males, especially from late Gen X onwards. A Boomer/Gen X beta isn't nearly as bad as a Millennial/Gen Z beta.

Most middle class + men are raised to be prototypical "nice guys" either by their single mom mother or their mom/beta male dad if the parents stayed together. While being a "nice guy" wasn't a death sentence in the sexual marketplace for a Boomer male who came of age in the late 1960s-1970s, it was for their Millennials sons who came of age in the late 1990s-2000s.

Most white collar men are betas at work too. Even if they get to middle management. These are men who can get laid off at any time by their corporate overlords and then have to supplicate for work by filling out hundreds of job applications online and hope one lands.

In terms of dating, most men are now swipe app monkeys where they swipe on lots of females and send lots of messages and get few responses.

Some men dabble in approaching but usually take lots of rejections in person and get discouraged.

This is the frame of society.
What would solve it?

 

[SummerTime]

I don't know if it is the biggest factor but it is a relevant factor.

@MatureDJ has talked about how attending an all-male high school impacted him socially. The fact that @MatureDJ is discussing this at age 55+ shows how relevant a childhood/adolescence experience is. I have met males who went to all-male high schools and they felt it took years to unwind some of the damage from that experience.

As a man in my early 40s right now, I am still feeling the consequences of multiple relocations from childhood and in my 20s. That has had a lifelong impact on my ability to get dates from social circle connections, meaning that I had to make more effort with other forms of arranging dates (co-ed sports leagues, traditional daygame, nightlife venues, and swipe apps).

In addition, my parents were a terrible married couple with an unhealthy relational dynamic. If my parents had been healthier, it actually might not have served me well because I would have had more blue pill fantasies. My mother, who mainly raised me, raised me a 'nice guy' so I had to unwind the damage of being raised as a 'nice guy'. 'Nice guys' finish last.

I think nice guys finish last mainly because they don't take action. Not for other reasons.

 

[SW15]

I think nice guys finish last mainly because they don't take action. Not for other reasons.

Not taking action would be a problem. I think the problem with "nice guys" runs deeper than that. Nice guys don't get women excited with their behaviors.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

also, i think it was said that, arranged marriage was the norm for most of human civilization, and i don't think guys, men, needed "game" for that, there was no approaching in that i think.

 

[RangerMIke]

How do you spot a woman like that?
I mean, it's easy to spot a "bad" woman, but which are the traits and signals she would give to you about her relationships with her parents'

You can't 'spot' them really. You have to spend time with them on dates. Anyway, when you spend time with them, the most profound character trait is over reaction to small things.... excessively high standards.

They start off VERY accommodating and the beginning of things is really great, then at some point they start overreacting to really little irrelevant things. They tend to believe everything you do is some kind of manipulation. It seems like she is trying very hard to push you away.... take the hint and leave.

She has abandonment issues so she tests you REALLY hard I suppose to make sure you are for real. It's sad really, because good men are just going to walk away: bad men will become abusive: weak men will twist themselves into knots trying to make her happy... these are the men that she keeps, but his behavior is a complete turn off... and all this does is makes her b1tcher and b1tcher until he either walks away or becomes abusive.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

yeah, i'm sure men on the autism spectrum are never close to being a natural.

I read this on a twitter post, it is:

"Women cannot understand how someone(a guy, man, human male) cannot be desired or doesn't have any dating options unless something is seriously wrong with them. They(women) get desired and wanted, sought after, by default have dating options, just for existing and being a normal person, so they assume that's how it is for men, but it's not." never truer words have been said or spoken.

 

[tksniper]

There is no such thing as a “natural” with women. I feel like I’m the closest thing to a “natural” because I was a handsome guy in high school but even I had to learn to be non needy.

I’ve also experienced the pain of being needy. It doesn’t matter if your are handsome if you are needy.

Being handsome just means there is LESS of a chance you’ll be needy.

The whole entire game can be distilled into “being needy vs being non needy.”

Obviously celebs are the MOST non needy.

And losers and nerds are often the MOST needy.

Neediness is a repellent. Non-neediness is an attractant.

Understand this and you understand the attraction.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

It's like anything else. Everyone has things that come to them like second nature.

Programming/software engineering is something that came that way to me. It's like I just had an inmate understanding of it and people are asking questions and I am confused wondering how they can't see the designs or the pattern because it's right there in front of you to see.

But for them it wasn't.

Same thing with anything. Some people are great at art. Some people are great at starting businesses/making money.
Some people are great with the opposite sex.

And a select few have multiple things they are great in.

For the rest of us, we just have to work harder to become good at those things we aren't naturally good at. How hard depends on where we are starting from.

 

[CornbreadFed]

The Naturals with women I know have two things going for them:

1). They have the looks or feminine facial features

2). They know the women they are compatible with- For example, too many nerdy introvert guys are trying to hit on bar sloots or cheerleader Stacy's. My Chad Southern Gentlemen friend targets southern belle type women, my bro friend targets women at parties and bars, my edgy friend targets other edgy women. There is no magic skeleton key that unlocks every door.

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

It's like anything else. Everyone has things that come to them like second nature.

Programming/software engineering is something that came that way to me. It's like I just had an inmate understanding of it and people are asking questions and I am confused wondering how they can't see the designs or the pattern because it's right there in front of you to see.

But for them it wasn't.

Same thing with anything. Some people are great at art. Some people are great at starting businesses/making money.
Some people are great with the opposite sex.

And a select few have multiple things they are great in.

For the rest of us, we just have to work harder to become good at those things we aren't naturally good at. How hard depends on where we are starting from.

yeah, it likely depends on how these guys were raised and brought up in their childhood, something must have gone right for them, but meanwhile it went wrong for many other guys which causes them to just be clueless around women.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

yeah, it likely depends on how these guys were raised and brought up in their childhood, something must have gone right for them, but meanwhile it went wrong for many other guys which causes them to just be clueless around women.

Not really. If you are a natural it means you simply are born with that type of talent.

 

[jhonny9546]

Nice guys don't get women excited with their behaviors.

This hit me hard, and it's the key to it.
But we should not emulate "players" behaviours because that is attrattive, instead we might want to understand why, and take things we might consider good for us, and try to change that.
Or we might act as fake.
Being a good guy, is in our nature, so we are trying to change that to accostumate a woman, which is made up by 1% brain and 99% hormones. Is not worth.

..bad men will become abusive:..

what do you mean by "the bad" men?

 

[H8CourtshipWithAPassion]

Not really. If you are a natural it means you simply are born with that type of talent.

yeah i think a guys childhood has a huge impact