Hot Girl Demands Good Dinner For Date. Smash Or Pass?

[CornbreadFed]

But you feel comfortable being interrogated or interrogating one over dinner?

I have never had a date like that. The only uncomfortable instance I can remember is when I went on a date with this one girl and she referred to black people as coloureds.... No she was not South African either.

 

[SW15]

Salsa and bachata dancing

Salsa and bachata dancing are good date activities.

It's possible to bring an existing date or girlfriend out to a nightlife venue that features salsa and bachata dancing.

Alternatively, a man can also go to those nightlife venues featuring salsa/bachata to initially meet a woman.

 

[DoofusDonutDude]

My approach, but I'm older, as are my targets:

A drink date that can turn into more, like a trendy brewpub with good food. Or, given I pursue sporty chicks, I usually feel them out for a hike or walk on the beach. I always make sure logistics make sense as well. I also have a full gym, pool, and jacuzzi - sometimes it's "let's work out together!" or a jacuzzi or pool. Those ALWAYS turn into sex.

Having a beach, hike, gym, or pool date lets you see their bodies and usually less makeup, allowing for kino (what chick doesn't like the idea of holding hands walking barefoot on the beach?). At my age I want to know if a woman has a full range of motion and no fused vertebrae (they don't fare well in bed with me) - I've come across women with chronic back issues as low down in age as 30 - they are a NOGO - maybe an ONS, but no more. Exercise: oh, that hurts? just put your hands on her and give her a rub. Pool? Give me your sunscreen, and I'll do your back, then ask her to do yours (hopefully, you have a back definition that AMOG's Michaelangelo's David). This lets her touch your body without feeling too forward.

Women who are athletes love their bodies, take care of them, and often do not drink, and they are sure as hell not eating dayboat scallops slathered in a butter/caper sauce...chicks like that Persian-looking gal above - STEER FACKING CLEAR. The athletic types are VERY physical and confident, this is a massive plus for you.

Do you think any chick is going to want to swallow your sausage after filling up on a $45 entree and half a bottle of wine? Unlikely. Work smart boys.

Most of the advice on the thread have been opposite to yours. Control the frame etc etc. Your advice seems to make sense for some reason i dunno.

OP said the girl was a "solid 9 Ukrainian" in his words. I don't know exactly what OP's markers for value are-- but atleast in the looks department (which is a one of core markers for men mostly) she sounds rather high value. That doesn't mean OP should simp to her or worship her or let her control the frame but perhaps unless OP think's he is much higher value then it might make a case for OP to put some effort as you said. Then again OP and the girl are both only looking for sex so maybe it isn't worth all the effort.

I know there is a lot of emphasis on frame control which makes sense but perhaps OP's situation isn't the dead end everyone is making it to .

Perhaps Op can save the exchange -- she hasn't said no to meeting him yet. Maybe he can re-frame it in a way, that he was looking to try x y restaurant (which is somewhat on the same standard as she demanded) and then invite her along. Then again, wouldn't be faking it..?

Sorry for all that text thinking - still learning the Don Juan way's but this thread is extremely interesting. I sometimes have a feeling a lot of men quickly drop the ball with a 9 or 10 for the reason because its too much maintenance.

Can't expect a jaguar for the price of a subaru right? I don't know, maybe i'm wrong and looking at all the wrong way. There must be a balance between frame control and making an effort.

 

[DoofusDonutDude]

Not true.
Some knew I was a photographer (models I shot), most girls didnt know.
Im a good looking guy, stylish 6.2, speak Russian fluently, I speak Czech a bit too, my mother to gue is French. Im considered as handsome and attractive. i cold approach 9-10s, Im very very experienced with hot girls.

So you follow rule #1 and rule #2..
Curious, is there anything someone who doesn't follow those rules can do to do what you do?

 

[DoofusDonutDude]

*Daps*, use to to do photography as well easiest way to meet smokeshow's at fashion events, its social proof within itself

I've heard that they call guys who do that "Guys with cameras" and not as photographers. Don't they ?

 

[DoofusDonutDude]

Pass. She's just looking to visit this restaurant for the experience. No pvssy is worth that expense. Careful with Ukrainian / Russian born females. They can be very decisive. When I was dating, it was drinks and tapas. After sex and activities; we can grab something to eat at a place of my choosing. Perhaps, depending on price, for something amazing, you can go out to a really nice place. But, again, that's completely your decision; not hers (unless she's paying for it).

You make it sound like they always hungry

 

[BackInTheGame78]

Most of the advice on the thread have been opposite to yours. Control the frame etc etc. Your advice seems to make sense for some reason i dunno.

OP said the girl was a "solid 9 Ukrainian" in his words. I don't know exactly what OP's markers for value are-- but atleast in the looks department (which is a one of core markers for men mostly) she sounds rather high value. That doesn't mean OP should simp to her or worship her or let her control the frame but perhaps unless OP think's he is much higher value then it might make a case for OP to put some effort as you said. Then again OP and the girl are both only looking for sex so maybe it isn't worth all the effort.

I know there is a lot of emphasis on frame control which makes sense but perhaps OP's situation isn't the dead end everyone is making it to .

Perhaps Op can save the exchange -- she hasn't said no to meeting him yet. Maybe he can re-frame it in a way, that he was looking to try x y restaurant (which is somewhat on the same standard as she demanded) and then invite her along. Then again, wouldn't be faking it..?

Sorry for all that text thinking - still learning the Don Juan way's but this thread is extremely interesting. I sometimes have a feeling a lot of men quickly drop the ball with a 9 or 10 for the reason because its too much maintenance.

Can't expect a jaguar for the price of a subaru right? I don't know, maybe i'm wrong and looking at all the wrong way. There must be a balance between frame control and making an effort.

Treat a woman like a princess and you'll get a princess. Treat a woman like a normal woman and you'll get a normal woman. Or they'll weed themselves out.

Women will try to take a mile when you give them an inch.

OP's main issue in this interaction is he pushed sex constantly making her assume he just wanted to fvck and no interest in her outside of that. He essentially is now in a transactional stage where the woman might go for it but since she doesn't see it going anywhere wants something to make him "earn it".

You can "earn it" in different ways. And it doesn't have to be with money.

IMHO, I don't even take women out to dinner until after we fvck and it never is an issue. The first dinner they get is usually date 3 at my place where we find a fun recipe to try out and we cook it together while drinking some wine before and during dinner. She is my kitchen assistant.

Fun and flirty. No crazy bill to pay and my bedroom is only a few steps away instead of miles away. Also women find men who know how to cook well and lead them by giving instructions in the kitchen sexy. Been told that many many times. Also doesn't hurt when you throw in random butt grabs and come up behind them and kiss their neck while pulling them back into your hardon pressing into their ass either and a few makeout sessions while things are cooking.

 

[SW15]

OP's main issue in this interaction is he pushed sex constantly making her assume he just wanted to fvck and no interest in her outside of that. He essentially is now in a transactional stage where the woman might go for it but since she doesn't see it going anywhere wants something to make him "earn it".

I agree.

I don't even drake women out to dinner until after we fvck and it never is an issue. The first dinner they get is usually date 3 at my place. No crazy bill to pay and my bedroom is only a few steps away instead of miles away.

This is what I do as well. In the early 2010s, it was very eye opening to me to learn that dinner dates in restaurants are bad dates. Then I stopped doing them. It's more difficult to get a woman to your place for dinner for date 2 but it's easier for get for date 3.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

I agree.



This is what I do as well. In the early 2010s, it was very eye opening to me to learn that dinner dates in restaurants are bad dates. Then I stopped doing them. It's more difficult to get a woman to your place for dinner for date 2 but it's easier for get for date 3.

Yup because most women have a "3 date" rule in their mind before they will "fvck" without a lot of resistance to overcome. By date 3 it's almost always 0 resistance and half the time they are the ones making the move by starting to kiss me and then straddling on top of me on the couch. A few times I have gotten them so hot and bothered we fvck in the kitchen while dinner is cooking.

 

[DoofusDonutDude]

Treat a woman like a princess and you'll get a princess. Treat a woman like a normal woman and you'll get a normal woman. Or they'll weed themselves out.

Women will try to take a mile when you give them an inch.

OP's main issue in this interaction is he pushed sex constantly making her assume he just wanted to fvck and no interest in her outside of that. He essentially is now in a transactional stage where the woman might go for it but since she doesn't see it going anywhere wants something to make him "earn it".

You can "earn it" in different ways. And it doesn't have to be with money.

IMHO, I don't even take women out to dinner until after we fvck and it never is an issue. The first dinner they get is usually date 3 at my place where we find a fun recipe to try out and we cook it together while drinking some wine before and during dinner. She is my kitchen assistant.

Fun and flirty. No crazy bill to pay and my bedroom is only a few steps away instead of miles away. Also women find men who know how to cook well and lead them by giving instructions in the kitchen sexy. Been told that many many times. Also doesn't hurt when you throw in random butt grabs and come up behind them and kiss their neck while pulling them back into your hardon pressing into their ass either and a few makeout sessions while things are cooking.

Thanks. Makes sense!

 

[member162951]

don't know, maybe i'm wrong and looking at all the wrong way. There must be a balance between frame control and making an effort.

Of course, absolutely. And from what I read most posters agree with that.

Netflix and Chill is not effort unless you're making dinner or ordering out but creating a nice vibe at home (making sure home is clean, soft lighting, a nice spread) = effort.

The OP's chick was not wrong for wanting dinner imo. The problem was she wasn't gracious. She was demanding and appeared entitled in how she conveyed her desire for dinner to the OP.

THAT's the problem, not that she preferred to be taken to dinner. Both men and women have their own standards and those standards should be respected on both sides.

That does NOT mean you have to continue dating such person if her/his standards don't match yours, however they should be respected regardless.

Again the problem here is that when expressing her disappointment that the OP didn't take her to dinner, and demanding that he should and at a 5-star restaurant no less, she came across as a demanding entitled b*tch.

A more gracious woman would have politely said no to Netflix and Chill and given HIM the opportunity to suggest another plan. That's feminine energy.

Not necessarily "dinner," but something fun, an activity they could do together outside the house and put some effort into planning and executing it.

Mini golf, bowling (my personal fave lol), or as @Pierce.Manhammer said, a drink at a trendy brew club (another fave). If they're clicking they can always head back to his afterwards.

By doing so, YOU are controlling the frame while at the same time making effort. Once you start dating regularly, it's OK to decide what to do, where to go, together.

But again, here she just came off as an entitled b*tch. She attempted to take complete control of the frame which is masculine energy and a complete turn off for most men including the OP.

 

[RickTheToad]

You make it sound like they always hungry

Many of them are "foodies" nowadays.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

You make it sound like they always hungry

When a guy is paying for a fancy dinner some won't eat the whole day leading up to it...at least the ones I've talked to about it have said some version of that...sometimes joking but probably half serious.

 

[Solomon]

I've heard that they call guys who do that "Guys with cameras" and not as photographers. Don't they ?

They can call me whatever they want as long as I got paid who cares?

 

[The Duke]

When a guy is paying for a fancy dinner some won't eat the whole day leading up to it...at least the ones I've talked to about it have said some version of that...sometimes joking but probably half serious.

I had a female cousin that would schedule dates right across from her apartment and not eat the whole day. If she was on the fence about some guy, she would tell him that she wanted to go eat at one of the nice restaurants within walking distance from her apartment. They would drive half way across town to buy her dinner and little did they know she walked right out her front door. Its was all about a free meal and no investment on her part. She was always the selfish type.

 

[mikedee]

So you follow rule #1 and rule #2..
Curious, is there anything someone who doesn't follow those rules can do to do what you do?

Rules 1 & 2? I follow my rules.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

I had a female cousin that would schedule dates right across from her apartment and not eat the whole day. If she was on the fence about some guy, she would tell him that she wanted to go eat at one of the nice restaurants within walking distance from her apartment. They would drive half way across town to buy her dinner and little did they know she walked right out her front door. Its was all about a free meal and no investment on her part. She was always the selfish type.

I'm pretty sure she's not the only woman to do that.

From working in the nightlife I met plenty of women who go out without any money because they know there will be men plying them with food and drink in exchange for pretending to be open to 'more'. I never fell for it, but I know that this has being going on since the 1950s.

 

[jamesfromhouston]

I thought I'd give a funny little update to this thread.

So a couple of nights ago, I matched another EE chick from OLD.

She asked to hangout with me. I said sure. Let's meet at x and x for a date.

She then proceeds to say to me that it would be nice if I could order a cab for her to pick her up to the date place (which BTW is less than 20 mins from hers. Its not even that far). Bear in mind I have never even met this chick and she's asking me to pay for her pick up.

Ofcourse I could easily afford the cab fare but I thought to myself. "Wtf? I've never even met this chick and she wants me to get her a cab? WTF is this bs"

So I asked her why not get her own cab. She then replied because it was the nice thing for me to do and clearly I'm not nice because I challenged her so she doesn't want to hang anymore.

I immediately blocked that ***** lol. I feel so lucky to not have wasted time on this.

Yo...I don't want to generalize or stereotype but these EE girls are ****ed.

 

[Pierce Manhammer]

@jamesfromhouston What country are you in?

 

[Gamisch]

I agree. There are still a lot of chumps out there. Even in the 2020s, women on swipe apps are still getting plenty of first date offers for dinners in restaurants, despite the fact that so many articles now exist to urge men to avoid dinner dates in the early stages. Even the mainstream media was piking up on this as far back as 2016. In 2016, the mainstream media was at least 5-10 years behind the trend talked about in seduction spaces online.

Millennials are killing the dinner date

In recent years, somewhere between endless Tinder swipes and countless OkCupid matches, the dinner date has fallen by the wayside. As online dating surges in popularity, few millennials have the ti…

nypost.com

Why are men even offering dinner dates anymore if the mainstream media has even noticed this?

Lets face it: most men are absolute suckers for love. Even the mythical Chad won't encounter a "hb9" on a daily.. So, the real problem is ( as useal) volume. No matter what, you should always hold frame. Getting bullied to pay her dinner..phow..that's gonna be a gruesome relationship..that is something you MUST know by bow OP

@OP seems like you want more than you can chew.

Funnily enough THIS reply:

You can't say you want a trad-con woman and can't even provide for dates. What are you thinking?

Summarizes the situation perfectly. Most of us want a traditional relationship without putting in the traditional work..N&chill is NOT traditional..that's as modern as it gets...

Traditional meant you'd approach a woman, text/ call her ( spending already!!), took her out while you kept spitting flava in her ear when separated. I.o.w she already was and always would be a money drain. Yes kiddos, I'm talking about the pre internet era, when you still had to throw coins into a phonecell..or a text would cost you 50 cents..

This type of behavior( feckboy behavior)is reserved for 1. Men with a lotta volume 2. Men who TRULY know what they want 3. A combination of 1 and 2. Especially 2 means you are willing to walk away. Well, the moment you have to "negotiate desire" ,you already show you operate from a vision of weakness, and,/ or lack of experience with women on that level.. because if you do have the experience, you simply cannot put ANY woman on a pedestal anymore..


4. = desperate TRYING to be all the above while fearing that you will never ever evah meet one like her again..

LISTEN FELLAS: every man better learns quickly what niche is right for him..ask yourself: how do I come across, what is realistic to expect, what type of woman do I want, AM I EVEN GOING TO STAND A CHANCE , ect ect.

When you act like you are lost in this jungle called modern dating, you'll bound to get eaten alive..