Hot Girl Demands Good Dinner For Date. Smash Or Pass?

The Duke

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More mental investment in her bank account from the start (which increases female attraction) keeps a lot of these issues at bay.

The less happy a girl is about how she feels about you, the more she inserts herself into the situation and the less compliant she becomes.

From the start it was pretty clear that the OP made this about sex and drinking.

You either make mental deposits in their emotional bank accounts or monetary deposits.

The fact that she is now trying to dictate terms is a deal breaker for me. Not saying this girl isn't showing her true colors.

I like to get girls eating out of my hand, by developing the connection. Once I do they feel safe, are compliant, and want to please. I simply don't experience problems like this. I never mention sex either. I just set the stage for it . The suggestion for Netflix and chill didn't do you any favors. It's the wrong way to approach sex. Women aren't direct.

A man that knows how to create tingles(emotional connection)doesn't have to say anything about sex. He won't have to take her to a special restaurant in order to fuhk her either.

Do your job right and you get VIP treatment with out having to meet all the requirements and demands.
 
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The Duke

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Do you think any chick is going to want to swallow your sausage after filling up on a $45 entree and half a bottle of wine? Unlikely. Work smart boys.
Here's another pro tip for guys wanting to understand women better.

Set the stage for your success.
 

BackInTheGame78

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More mental investment in her bank account from the start (which increases female attraction) keeps a lot of these issues at bay.

The less happy a girl is about how she feels about you, the more she inserts herself into the situation and the less compliant she becomes.

From the start it was pretty clear that the OP made this about sex and drinking.

You either make mental deposits in their emotional bank accounts or monetary deposits.

The fact that she is now trying to dictate terms is a deal breaker for me. Not saying this girl isn't showing her true colors.

I like to get girls eating out of my hand, by developing the connection. Once I do they feel safe, are compliant, and want to please. I simply don't experience problems like this. I never mention sex either. I just set the stage for it . The suggestion for Netflix and chill didn't do you any favors. It's the wrong way to approach sex. Women aren't direct.

A man that knows how to create tingles(emotional connection)doesn't have to say anything about sex. He won't have to take her to a special restaurant in order to fuhk her either.

Do your job right and you get VIP treatment with out having to meet all the requirements and demands.
Once a woman thinks all you want is sex either by your words or actions, she may want it too, but you are going to have to pull out your wallet in one way or another.

OP, you need a little more tact to what you are doing. Women want guys who want to fvck them. They don't want to be made to feel that's the only reason you are interested in them tho.
 

Pierce Manhammer

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I like to get girls eating out of my hand, by developing the connection. Once I do they feel safe, are compliant, and want to please. I simply don't experience problems like this. I never mention sex either. I just set the stage for it . The suggestion for Netflix and chill didn't do you any favors. It's the wrong way to approach sex. Women aren't direct.
THIS X 1,000

Listen to this man, he knows what he’s talking about. And even if most of you think he’s ancient (he’s not), I bet he’s slaying waaaay more than most of you.
 

Glassguy

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Yes. If she’s not a sloot, she wants a public date where you invest something before giving it up. If you bang without a date, she is a whvre. Lot of guys don’t want to admit this but it is true.

Good is subjective. It’s a red flag if she demands a five star restaurant. Any good tasting spot should be fine.
Spot on. I've had plenty of both. Some chicks will literally just come over to bang. No first date. Fun for sure, but also not someone I'm even going to OFFER a date to later on.

As @RangerMIke said in his reply to this thread, I like going out to decent restaurants. If a woman has clear value and we have at least chatted/talked on the phone and it seems like there is some chemistry (heavy screening), I have no problems going out to a place I'd want to eat at and invite her along.
In the grand scheme of things, what's an extra $40-$60 on a woman that has value and I already know the conversation will be good.

It all depends on the value of the women and what the intention with her is to you.
 

Solomon

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Netflix and chill is not a date, I understand she rejected the idea. OP shot himself in the foot when he proposed that idea. But refusing to go for a drink and asking to go for diner is a trendy place is a major red flag. She is interested in a free lunch and cool IG stories.

I invite my dates in basic places, cheap wine bars, pubs, etc. i dont spend more than 30$ most of the time. If they ask for something fancy instead I drop them. But it never happens, because they are truly interested in seeing me again, they dont care where.
Do you live in EE? cause a $30 with a Ukrainian/Russian/Polish smokesshow is not going to suffice and I'm speaking from personal experience.
Just think how this entitled, spoiled princess will act a month in, two months in, six months in if this is how she acts now.

I would have lost all attraction and just walked personally. Major turnoff for me.

Also why being a good cook comes in handy because you just invite them over to cook with you. Far more investment and no need to invite them home since they are already there.

And I don't have to worry about gaining 3 lbs from their high sodium, preservative filled food they serve.
^^This, EE women are very high maintenance the prettier they are the more maintenance goes into it.
However, I think OP lost frame on this one and it's best to move on, even if he does take her to dinner and bangs her she won't respect OP and will continue to test him until OP loses his mind or wallet whichever comes first lmfao
 

mikedee

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Do you live in EE? cause a $30 with a Ukrainian/Russian/Polish smokesshow is not going to suffice and I'm speaking from personal experience.

^^This, EE women are very high maintenance the prettier they are the more maintenance goes into it.
However, I think OP lost frame on this one and it's best to move on, even if he does take her to dinner and bangs her she won't respect OP and will continue to test him until OP loses his mind or wallet whichever comes first lmfao
I've lived in Moscow for 3 years + several trips, Im currently living in Prague and Im dating a 19yo Slovak model. I used to work as a fashion photographer, I've dated a LOT of hot girls.
30$ is enough. If you treat them like smokeshows they gonna act like smokeshows, if you treat them like normal girls, they gonna act like normal girls.
 

Solomon

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mikedee

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Solomon

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Not true.
Some knew I was a photographer (models I shot), most girls didnt know.
Im a good looking guy, stylish 6.2, speak Russian fluently, I speak Czech a bit too, my mother to gue is French. Im considered as handsome and attractive. i cold approach 9-10s, Im very very experienced with hot girls.
Ok do you want a cookie for being a good looking guy and banging hot girls?
 

BillyPilgrim

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I like to get girls eating out of my hand, by developing the connection. Once I do they feel safe, are compliant, and want to please. I simply don't experience problems like this. I never mention sex either. I just set the stage for it . The suggestion for Netflix and chill didn't do you any favors. It's the wrong way to approach sex. Women aren't direct.
THIS X 1,000

Listen to this man, he knows what he’s talking about. And even if most of you think he’s ancient (he’s not), I bet he’s slaying waaaay more than most of you.
@The Duke is correct, but some women require more connection than others and won't be explicit in how much connection they require before they are willing to submit. A big part of the game imo is being able to sense with reasonable accuracy how much work you're going to have to do to get her in that place (where she's compliant and "eating out of your hand").
 

AmsterdamAssassin

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Pierce Manhammer

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@The Duke is correct, but some women require more connection than others and won't be explicit in how much connection they require before they are willing to submit. A big part of the game imo is being able to sense with reasonable accuracy how much work you're going to have to do to get her in that place (where she's compliant and "eating out of your hand").
Well I’ve learned to be efficient, I don’t allow myself to get stuck on a chick I find super hot, if she’s outside of my normal effort she can pound dirt.

Dating is a numbers game, there’s always another chick that’ll be compliant and hot, and if you’re smart and have a roster you can just say “enough” and move along.

Took me a while to learn this and make it a rule. When I came out of my 3 year LTR I felt like I’d never have a woman with a fitness body like my ex’s ever again. I have 3 in my roster now. Live and learn.
 

jamesfromhouston

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Wow. I honestly did not expect that this thread will turn into a debate. But I really do thank everyone for their input.

I have the latest update of how things resolved in the end and I also feel compelled to explain the situation more clearly.

First the situation & why I started the thread:

Yes on our first meet with this Ukrainian, I took her to a lounge for some drinks.

As a general rule, I don't take girls to restaurants or dinners on a first date. The main reason is because I don't see the point of investing too much into a girl that I have not slept with or at least have some form of a plate-status/relationship with. It feels like over investing to me. Another reason why is that a dinner is generally longer than drinks. If **** turns out bad, you're there longer whilst a drink you can easily eject anytime with minimal losses in time and money. So I generally do dinners after sex, plate status or even dinners on the night that I **** them.

Well I thought our first date went really well. Although initially, she did bring up something weird about how she expected dinner as well not just drinks, despite me making it clear we are heading to a lounge for drinks. She told me she was a bit unhappy. But I thought that's not my fault when I was clear. I didn't think much of it at the time. Anyway we made out. Also at the end of the date, we were talking about sex and had quite a sexual conversation. Things were heavy. In fact, she told me she was horny from all the kissing and heavy topic. I did try to escalate to ****, touching her and her thighs. She was also very touchy. But logistics was not right. She had a bit of resistance too especially with heavy escalation. Maybe it was my mistake that I failed to **** her that night. So I thought its fine, we will pick this up again some other time.

To my surprise, she wanted to meet me again the very next day, texting me almost immediately after the date.

I thought great. I can close this finally. Also the last time we talked, we more or less talked about Netflix and chilling together (more or less let's **** next time under better context). I had planned to take her dinner in a nice hotel and I had intended to **** her there (Netflix in the hotel room) after dinner and some wine. Overall it would have been a good experience for her or really anyone.

The weird thing is she was so specific about the place. Asking me, where's this place I wanted to take her. She went to google the place and told me she thought the food there wasn't good enough. She looked at reviews. Apparently the hotel has bad food. And suggested a more expensive place which is totally somewhere else and not the place I picked. Logistically would have been a nightmare for me. I told her, we can do her restaurant another time (maybe after I ****ed her) but let's stick to my plan. But she got really persistent which started to put me off because I always like girls who feminine and follow the lead. She just felt demanding to me. It is also what I am used to when a girl is into me. Yet at the same time, we both knew we would Netflix and chill after dinner. She didn't say no to that at least in our chat (but who knows, maybe she would suddenly be on her period after dinner right?).

I started to get confused about the situation because maybe I have been too into the concepts of genuine burning desire, respecting myself, standing my ground but it's just strange how this girl who supposedly has high IL and into me is negotiating with me about where she wants dinner. Felt very transactional. Almost negotiating desire. I thought the whole point was about us hanging out. It's not like I suggested, let's hangout at McDonalds. I actually had something amazing planned.

Why I Started This Thread

I started this thread because I have never experienced this before. A girl who I thought has high IL demanding dinner. Did I totally misread her IL from the initial interaction? Or is this the culture of EE women that I should just learn? Or is there something I am missing out on entirely such as what some of you suggested, some girls expect dinner if we expect sex? It's not about the $$$ of dinner. Honestly the dinner though expensive is something I could have afforded. It just felt weird to encounter this scenario. For someone to demand a specific place.

That's why I started this thread. First time I found myself in this situation. Wondered what everyone else would do.

For those of you who commented that you did not expect this from me. I don't know what expectations you bros here have of me. I don't see myself as a Casanova or some amazing DJ. I don't claim to have figured everything out. Most of the time I am still learning about women and dating. By no means am I an expert. I have to admit that. Yes, for those who followed my NC journey last year, sad to say I have begun another NC journey again recently. I thought I learnt but yet again made similar mistakes. I guess I am still not there yet fully although I also had a lot of fun & success along the way with women since SS. I would rather have my bros expect me to come on SS regularly to share my situations and confusions with girls; and we can discuss it together and maybe gain insights from it. Definitely don't see me as an expert.

The Update & What Happened Next

So after reading all the responses, and thank you everyone, I told her that I think we are on different grounds. I said whilst I really wanted to see her and spend time with her and I had planned some awesome things for her. It feels like she is more concerned about a restaurant than she is about spending time together. So I rejected her. She also agreed we are on different levels too based on this response.

Who knows, maybe it was a mistake. Maybe I missed a chance here with a hottie. But I feel good. She is easily a 9 (face) and a 10 (body). But I rejected her. After all I felt like I was being told what to do and have desire negotiated, I wasn't willing to accept that. Maybe I misread the situation with her but that is what it felt like to me.


But once again, thank you bros, for all your input. As always very very helpful and what a great thread to read.
 
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Pierce Manhammer

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Well given your previous comments about yourself, you’ll have a replacement for your 9.5 in no time!
 

bat soup

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Hi bros.

Back again with another confusing situation. Recently met a girl from OLD. Solid 9. Ukrainian.

Instead, she rejected my spot and told me she is very particular about food and proposed we go to this more expensive restaurant.
This reminds me of a common scam in Odessa, Ukraine.

The women there used to take foreign men to expensive restaurants where they had a "special" menu with higher prices. The women would order the most expensive food that they could and make a commission on the food there.

This was all kind of linked to the mail-order bride business, which was itself mostly another big scam.

Maybe this girl is from Odessa and she brought her business skills with her.

Personally I'd tell her to take a taxi to a really expensive restaurant, order whatever she likes whilst she waits for me.. . and then I'd never show up.
 

SW15

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Dinner dates are for chumps.
I agree. There are still a lot of chumps out there. Even in the 2020s, women on swipe apps are still getting plenty of first date offers for dinners in restaurants, despite the fact that so many articles now exist to urge men to avoid dinner dates in the early stages. Even the mainstream media was piking up on this as far back as 2016. In 2016, the mainstream media was at least 5-10 years behind the trend talked about in seduction spaces online.


Why are men even offering dinner dates anymore if the mainstream media has even noticed this?
 
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