Woman's Point of View

Interceptor

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:woo: Am I special or what??!!



BTW, you look absolutely stunning this evening in that sexy (____________) and your (_________).
 

ketostix

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1. No overt monetary value is placed on a homemaker's work.

But living in a home rent free, eating food, and getting utility from from living there is value.

Our culture so often defines a person's value solely through a paycheck. There is no paycheck associated with traditional women's work.
Not true for women. A woman can have value based on her looks and youth. There's no paycheck for a man doing "women's work" either so what's your point?

A man builds a deck on the house. There is a consciousness of the $ saved for the family due to his labor.

A woman works out seasonal menus & cooks and shops smart, grooms the family pets, does the laundry, runs the cars in for their state inspections, cleans the house, etc. and there is usually no consciousness of the $ saved for the family.

Additionally, If you do not also bring in money as a wage earner (your Man is the sole wage earner) you are viewed as a dependant rather than as a partner who has negotiated a working understanding and agreement of contributions within the relationship with your Man.

Viewed that way by who the IRS? That benefits the whole family. Do you think a man who's woman is the sole wage earner would be viewed as less of a dependant or higher value than?

2. "A man works from rise to set of Sun, a woman's work is never done".

Do you really think keep up a household for a day is a higher workload than an average day at work? That's ridiculous.



Our culture values work that can be completed, pointed at as a finished product.


Traditionally, men's work has a stopping point. They can say after building a deck, "look at my completed job" and their wives/society says "Damn you're good". (Which of course he IS LOL) And a year later, that deck is still there and he can still point to it as an accomplishment/valid contribution. It maintains it's perceived value due to it's longevity/usefullness.

Here your arguing basically that services are given less value than manufacturing. This isn't true by numerous other examples. Besides I still don't see your point. If a woman built a deck it would be considered a greater accomplishment.

Traditonal woman's work/homemaking - laundry for example: She spends hours and hours of her life doing her family's laundry. While putting it all away in the drawers, feeling content that everyone will be okay for the next week because everything is ready for them, another dirty towel is going down the laundry chute.

Again you're trying to argue that homemaking tasks are more labor intensive than the average job. This is ridiculous.

There is no finished moment, there is most often not even a "thank you" in her entire lifetime from any family member who has been on the receiving end of her work. There is no finished moment to create opportunity for acknowlegdement for the job well-done - because it never is done.

And when you work outside the home your boss just thanks and praises you doesn't he or she? :rolleyes: . again what's your point, because if a man does the same tasks he wouldn't get a better outcome.



3. Our culture does not truly value children.

A homemaker's role that involves being the primary caretaker of the children is undervalued because society as a whole does not truly value children themselves. So, it carries over to not valuing the primary caretaker of the children.

Society doesn't value children? I'm starting to see what your view is, everyone in society should send mothers money

4. Yielding our time and attention.

Homemakers who choose to interact tradionally are viewed as weak; perceived weakness = lower value.

Because we yield our schedules and our primary attention to our Man and the needs of our children, we are often seen as weak (and boring see #5). Our choice to compromise and be flexible in this way is often perceived as a weakness instead of as a strength.

I think you're assuming everyone as opposed to some believe a certain way. This is true for all your arguments. But again it's not a woman thing. If a man assumed this role he would be seen much weaker by braoder group of peoplke. Particularly women. Can you say hypocrisy?

5. A homemaker is seen as one-dimensional.

If you cherish the traditional role of being the homemaker, people often assume that you are not also intellectually alive, politically aware, spiritually awake, creative, productive, or passionate. Often we women who are "wired" this way don't blab on and on about every thought we have, every insight, every book, every awakening. Generally we are better at listening, so we can better create a peaceful home life for the people we love.

We have quiet "inner" lives that most people do not see - even husbands can become oblivious to the depth of their own wives - simply because he can become so comfortable in receiving that they only see her in relation to himself and not her as a complete person. Society often does the same.

You're making faulty attributions. A woman's value isn't based on her career. It's based on her looks and youthj mostly.

6. Peacemakers are not valued in our culture, on the whole.

What I define as a good "homemaker" is a woman who creates the environment where the family has a "soft place to land". It is a safe, noncombative environment.

You interact with your Man and your children in such a way that there is no loser - there is just learning and respecting and forgiving. You don't want the people you love to feel they have just been made less than the best person you know they are striving to be.

Culturally, there is an emphasis on the "Winner" of a conflict as having the higher value, the "Loser" as the lower value. Whereas, in my belief system anyway, a homemaker works to create a win-win environment.

Not arguing, fighting, "parenting" or regulating our Man's behavior at every turn often leads to criticism by more "liberated women", other men observing dynamics, and is seen as weak. It actually takes great strength - and faith - and loyalty - to keep your mouth shut and wait and trust your Man to find his way on things. That silence is often perceived as weakness instead of patience.



7. Being a Homemaker is not sexy.

The actual nuts-and-bolts of running a home well is not sexy. Changing diapers, scrubbing the bathroom, making the week's shopping list, running the kid's to the doctors when they are sick - it just isn't sexy. This in and of itself is not a deal breaker for being a homemaker, though. As it has it's rewards in and of itself. However...

In our culture, sexual vivacity is valued - but not promoted as compatable with homemaking, so there is a lose-lose dynamic for the Homemaker. Sexual or not, she becomes devalued.

Many people cannot reconcile sexual lust/stimulation for a woman and also see her legitimately within a role that is "motherly" or quality homemaker material as well. (I was 8 months pregant at my baby shower and a friend said to me: "Don't you think it's time you stop wearing those dresses and heels?" A Feminist, liberated friend wanted me to tone down my sexuality because I was pregnant. It made her uncomfortable.) It is not only men who are effected by this phenomena - it is a cultural issue of devaluing us as complete people.

Hence the Madonna-Hor complex. You are no longer valued as a desirable sexual being if you are a homemaker. We as Homemakers are often encouraged to become neutered/removed from our sexual essence to placate society's (or even sometimes our husband's - and children's) inability to accept us as whole, vibrant, sexually valued women.

Many women/homemakers buy into this belief system as well - that their usefullness/sexual "value" becomes only reproductive, but their passion and feminine sexuality is not experienced as compatable with their roles as good mothers/homemakers. Of course this damages their own self-value/self-esteem/sense of value.

The mystique of the MILF is a movement towards a healing in this regard... but I suspect that is a topic for another day...

What you're saying is men should lust after a married women with kids just as much as a young, single childless woman:rolleyes:. You're just flat wrong. If a woman is goodlooking, young and childless. Her occupation is irrelevant to most all men.
Just like a woman you didn't finish this work, so I'll finish it for you by providing your conclusion:

If you want to have "value" as a woman, get a job, don't get into a relationship, and never have kids. LOL
 

LovelyLady

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You're so good to me, Thank you, Interceptor. BTW - Lasagna's almost done, meateating, Depends wearing, - (but only until after dinner then I have other plans for your sweetself... :yes: ) - Manly-man :flowers:
 

LovelyLady

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ketostix said:
Just like a woman you didn't finish this work, so I'll finish it for you by providing your conclusion:

If you want to have "value" as a woman, get a job, don't get into a relationship, and never have kids. LOL
Now Keto, I thought you understood - I am with Interceptor now. You are just going to have to go misunderstand and nitpick some other girl's writing. (But thank you for exhibiting the phenomena I was discussing). I have Lasagna to make and after dinner... um, plans.
 

ketostix

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LovelyLady said:
Now Keto, I thought you understood - I am with Interceptor now. You are just going to have to go misunderstand and nitpick some other girl's writing. (But thank you for exhibiting the phenomena I was discussing). I have Lasagna to make and after dinner... um, plans.
Lame. I'm still right and you're still wrong. And long as you continue to put wrong answers in this thread I reserve the right to correct them :D .
 

Lexie

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LL, great homemaking post, I agree with everything you said. Also, I have not read MB, I'll have to put that one on the list.

Ah yes, the twinkie metaphor again...love that one.
 

j0n024

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IS this still a question post or is this Lovely's and Interceptors roleplaying room lol ? I just want to know so I can ask a question lol.

Does it matter to women if a guy thinks they are better then them? Not just her but all women, I mean I've been starting to get the mentality that I am better then most (I am referring to my set age limit 17-37 beyond those numbers I see them as kids that should be protected and adults you can learn from). I came to this site and now the mentality has sunk in more which doesnt bother me in the least, now I neg girls more often. Does it matter, should I stop and can a girl tell?
Now to be honest I actually probably wont even listen because your a girl lex but hopefully I can get some insight,because as of right now I see girl's as nothing more then playthings.
 

Lexie

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j0n024 said:
Does it matter to women if a guy thinks they are better then them? Not just her but all women, I mean I've been starting to get the mentality that I am better then most (I am referring to my set age limit 17-37 beyond those numbers I see them as kids that should be protected and adults you can learn from). I came to this site and now the mentality has sunk in more which doesnt bother me in the least, now I neg girls more often. Does it matter, should I stop and can a girl tell?
Now to be honest I actually probably wont even listen because your a girl lex but hopefully I can get some insight,because as of right now I see girl's as nothing more then playthings.
I'm not sure why you're asking a girl to actually give you some insight if you look at them only as "playthings", but here are my thoughts on the matter: Yes, it's obvious if you think you're better than everyone. To a female, it is to some extent acceptable for you to think you're better than many males, however, to say that you are better than not only all males and all females, but also the female you are interacting with, is a huge turn-off.

But the term '"better" is so subjective. In what way do you find yourself "better" than everyone else? Are you a fine physical specimen? I assure you, one need look no farther than a pro sporting event to find many suitable athletic bodies. Are you mentally superior? A simple IQ test can reveal how inaccurate that idea may be. Are you the sexiest man alive? This is impossible, as what's sexy to one person can be average to another.

It sounds like your ego may have out-sized your zip-code, I suggest you find a way to reduce it if you ever want anything more meaningful than a fling. You're really short-changing yourself from an emotional standpoint, although that doesn't seem to be one of your priorities now, one of these days it may be.
 

ketostix

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I can see this thread has turned into a feminist rant thanks to (un)LoveyLady. How surprising. Anyone that heeds a female's advice is sure to end up in AFC land.
 

j0n024

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Yes I see it too Keto and that's why I said I probably wouldnt listen to her advice granted it's a diff person.
At the bottom of my post I even said I probably wouldnt listen to you because of said attitude so there was really no reason to put that in your post,Now I said only girls of that age limit I didnt include guy's because I know there are a lot more guy's that are better, financially,physically,and mentally so I know how to keep my ego in check and give props when needed. I dont really beleive you seeing as how women this day and age act how they are acting and still deserve to get respect, I mean thinking back in HS the girls there(Most) were bragging about the stuff they did the night before(3somes, 2 guys in same night, jizzed in face!) I dont think my superiority is that far fetched to even consider for all men seeing as how women can be considered slvts more then B1tches. But whatever you you didnt go to deep into the answer for me to get one all you did was generalize and for that thank you for nothing. :)
 

Lexie

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j0n024 said:
Yes I see it too Keto and that's why I said I probably wouldnt listen to her advice granted it's a diff person.
At the bottom of my post I even said I probably wouldnt listen to you because of said attitude so there was really no reason to put that in your post,Now I said only girls of that age limit I didnt include guy's because I know there are a lot more guy's that are better, financially,physically,and mentally so I know how to keep my ego in check and give props when needed. I dont really beleive you seeing as how women this day and age act how they are acting and still deserve to get respect, I mean thinking back in HS the girls there(Most) were bragging about the stuff they did the night before(3somes, 2 guys in same night, jizzed in face!) I dont think my superiority is that far fetched to even consider for all men seeing as how women can be considered slvts more then B1tches. But whatever you you didnt go to deep into the answer for me to get one all you did was generalize and for that thank you for nothing. :)
1. Punctuation. Look it up, make friends.
2. I know you said that you "wouldn't listen to me" at the end of your post. Is it alright that I referred to that in my reply? Or would you rather I make vague references and not allude to anything you've said specifically?
3. So you're willing to "give props" to guys who are "better, financially, physically, and mentally" than you, but not females? Please explain this to me. Is it the Y chromosome? I certainly hope not.
4. I hear more men talking about their sex lives than women, so if this is what you mean by you being "better" than women than you are a very unique male indeed.
5. It sounds as though your references to women are localized in high school. Let me know when you make it out into the real world and then maybe we can have a more fact-based discussion that involves women who's biggest problem isn't where to sit at lunch.
6. I'm not sure what you mean by I "didnt go to deep into the answer for [you] to get one". Shallow questions get shallow answers. If you have something a bit more, shall we say, tangible, then perhaps I could offer an acceptably "deep" response.
 

j0n024

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Lexie said:
1. Punctuation. Look it up, make friends.
2. I know you said that you "wouldn't listen to me" at the end of your post. Is it alright that I referred to that in my reply? Or would you rather I make vague references and not allude to anything you've said specifically?
3. So you're willing to "give props" to guys who are "better, financially, physically, and mentally" than you, but not females? Please explain this to me. Is it the Y chromosome? I certainly hope not.
4. I hear more men talking about their sex lives than women, so if this is what you mean by you being "better" than women than you are a very unique male indeed.
5. It sounds as though your references to women are localized in high school. Let me know when you make it out into the real world and then maybe we can have a more fact-based discussion that involves women who's biggest problem isn't where to sit at lunch.
6. I'm not sure what you mean by I "didnt go to deep into the answer for [you] to get one". Shallow questions get shallow answers. If you have something a bit more, shall we say, tangible, then perhaps I could offer an acceptably "deep" response.
HAHA yes I see don't get all huffy and puffy because I dont take you seriously! Please you crazy girl haha :crazy: . I dont need to work on my punctuation on the internet because I dont need to prove anything to anyone here and would rather take shortcuts.You did make vague references and didnt talk about he subject matter at all silly, It's not the Y just dont see them in the same light and yes I am already out of HS thank you very much so yes I am in the "Real World" as you like to call it. You didnt go into the subject matter all you did was generalize like you did again, shallow answers get shallow questions but I would have thought you would understand seeing as how your a women and should know about your own kind should you not? Plus women talk about it more then you think , but whatever it was a waste of my time good luck on whatever you do since I dont care about you and have no reason to argue with someone as insipid as you.(rhyme lol)
 

Create Reality

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Lexie, your logic fails with men. Why do men give each other props "is it a Y chromosome thing" no it's brotherly love. some men take it farther than others but that's all i got to say about that.
 

Lexie

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j0n024 said:
HAHA yes I see don't get all huffy and puffy because I dont take you seriously! Please you crazy girl haha :crazy: . I dont need to work on my punctuation on the internet because I dont need to prove anything to anyone here and would rather take shortcuts.You did make vague references and didnt talk about he subject matter at all silly, It's not the Y just dont see them in the same light and yes I am already out of HS thank you very much so yes I am in the "Real World" as you like to call it. You didnt go into the subject matter all you did was generalize like you did again, shallow answers get shallow questions but I would have thought you would understand seeing as how your a women and should know about your own kind should you not? Plus women talk about it more then you think , but whatever it was a waste of my time good luck on whatever you do since I dont care about you and have no reason to argue with someone as insipid as you.(rhyme lol)
I answered your question very clearly and succinctly. The answer was yes, it does bother women to be with a man who thinks he is better than them. How hard is that? It was a yes or no question, there wasn't anything to delve into deeper.

However, you managed to nicely skim over my question with your answer (if you can call it that) of not seeing women "in the same light" as men. Interesting, as I'm seeing here that you don't hold yourself to the same standards as women (by expecting a lengthly introspective response from me on the part of all women, and giving a very throw-away response yourself to a direct question about you specifically), and this in itself answers my question; by having lower standards for yourself than women, obviously you are more apt to meet and fulfill your own requirements, thus being able to see yourself quite easily as "better" than they are.

If you're already out of highschool, then why are your female references from that era of your life? Surely you've met some since then.

Although I didn't need any clarification on the matter, it was nice of you to point out that you don't care about me. I hope you realize that this sounds like a very weak (read: lame) defense tactic.
 

Lexie

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Create Reality said:
Lexie, your logic fails with men. Why do men give each other props "is it a Y chromosome thing" no it's brotherly love. some men take it farther than others but that's all i got to say about that.
Wow, my sincere thanks for the explanation. You manage to sum up in one sentence what jon could not do in paragraphs (that is, if her bothered to use them) ;)
 

Create Reality

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Lexie said:
Wow, my sincere thanks for the explanation. You manage to sum up in one sentence what jon could not do in paragraphs (that is, if her bothered to use them) ;)
Thanks for appealing to my ego. I'll get my coat.
 
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