Woman's Point of View

Lexie

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Rebound Material said:
Alright, lets say you ran into a chick that you kinda just met at like the mall or something and you guys make a little chit chat. Along the lines of this chit chat she says she has to go and starts gesturing toward a particular guy she's w/o her telling you exactly who he was but you have a big hunch that it could be her BF....what does that mean?
It could mean that you misread her kindness as flirting, and she's really just a nice person, or had a question she needed to ask you, or something along those lines. If that doesn't apply, he could be her brother/cousin/whatever, or if he is her BF, maybe she was just bored waiting on him and wanted someone to talk to.

Don't take it personally, I would just look at it as a friendly encounter.
 

bigjohnson

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Lexie said:
I actually do agree with this to an extent. Women are very 'programmed'. Blame it on every chick click/romance novel ever made. We're shown a version of romance, and told 'hey this is what romance looks like, this is how it should be', so it can become hard to recognize it in other forms. Then some women do encounter the 'movie-style' romance and find they don't like it. So there's a lot of soul-searching that has to be done, and can only be done via trial-and-error in dating.
Some women figure it out but most western women can't get past the "being a housewife is demeaning" mindset.



NickSCFC2000 said:
Hey us guys do the same.
Some probably do, we call them AFCs I suppose.
 

Francisco d'Anconia

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Lexie said:
It could mean that you misread her kindness as flirting, and she's really just a nice person, or had a question she needed to ask you, or something along those lines. If that doesn't apply, he could be her brother/cousin/whatever, or if he is her BF, maybe she was just bored waiting on him and wanted someone to talk to.

Don't take it personally, I would just look at it as a friendly encounter.
This is something a lot of guys mistakenly read as interest. Women are generally more interactive with strangers than men and this is constantly misread as something more than being cordial. That's why it's up to the guy to actually make the initial move because more times than not the woman has no idea that he's interested in her. Actually, the only women who consistently realize this are the ones that believe that all men are only after one thing from women when approached; could they be right? :eek:
 

LovelyLady

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Lexie said:
I actually do agree with this to an extent. Women are very 'programmed'. Blame it on every chick click/romance novel ever made. We're shown a version of romance, and told 'hey this is what romance looks like, this is how it should be', so it can become hard to recognize it in other forms. Then some women do encounter the 'movie-style' romance and find they don't like it. So there's a lot of soul-searching that has to be done, and can only be done via trial-and-error in dating.
Have you ever read Madame Bovary Lexie? It addresses this issue poignantly and I think is a must-read for all women everywhere. :)
 

LovelyLady

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bigjohnson said:
Some women figure it out but most western women can't get past the "being a housewife is demeaning" mindset.
I have reflected on this for much of my life.

I would first say a "housewife" is not the same as a "homemaker", but I am assuming we are meaning the same thing when I use that word. I am more comfortable with word "homemaker" as a wife is married to her husband - not her house ;)

demeaning: To lower the dignity of or lessen respect for someone, especially oneself. To lower value/devalue someone, or oneself.

I am going to use the word Value because I am more comfortable with it.



Some reflections:

1. No overt monetary value is placed on a homemaker's work.

Our culture so often defines a person's value solely through a paycheck. There is no paycheck associated with traditional women's work.

A man builds a deck on the house. There is a consciousness of the $ saved for the family due to his labor.

A woman works out seasonal menus & cooks and shops smart, grooms the family pets, does the laundry, runs the cars in for their state inspections, cleans the house, etc. and there is usually no consciousness of the $ saved for the family.

Additionally, If you do not also bring in money as a wage earner (your Man is the sole wage earner) you are viewed as a dependant rather than as a partner who has negotiated a working understanding and agreement of contributions within the relationship with your Man.


2. "A man works from rise to set of Sun, a woman's work is never done".

Our culture values work that can be completed, pointed at as a finished product.

Traditionally, men's work has a stopping point. They can say after building a deck, "look at my completed job" and their wives/society says "Damn you're good". (Which of course he IS LOL) And a year later, that deck is still there and he can still point to it as an accomplishment/valid contribution. It maintains it's perceived value due to it's longevity/usefullness.

Traditonal woman's work/homemaking - laundry for example: She spends hours and hours of her life doing her family's laundry. While putting it all away in the drawers, feeling content that everyone will be okay for the next week because everything is ready for them, another dirty towel is going down the laundry chute.

There is no finished moment, there is most often not even a "thank you" in her entire lifetime from any family member who has been on the receiving end of her work. There is no finished moment to create opportunity for acknowlegdement for the job well-done - because it never is done.



3. Our culture does not truly value children.

A homemaker's role that involves being the primary caretaker of the children is undervalued because society as a whole does not truly value children themselves. So, it carries over to not valuing the primary caretaker of the children.


4. Yielding our time and attention.

Homemakers who choose to interact tradionally are viewed as weak; perceived weakness = lower value.

Because we yield our schedules and our primary attention to our Man and the needs of our children, we are often seen as weak (and boring see #5). Our choice to compromise and be flexible in this way is often perceived as a weakness instead of as a strength.


5. A homemaker is seen as one-dimensional.

If you cherish the traditional role of being the homemaker, people often assume that you are not also intellectually alive, politically aware, spiritually awake, creative, productive, or passionate. Often we women who are "wired" this way don't blab on and on about every thought we have, every insight, every book, every awakening. Generally we are better at listening, so we can better create a peaceful home life for the people we love.

We have quiet "inner" lives that most people do not see - even husbands can become oblivious to the depth of their own wives - simply because he can become so comfortable in receiving that they only see her in relation to himself and not her as a complete person. Society often does the same.


6. Peacemakers are not valued in our culture, on the whole.

What I define as a good "homemaker" is a woman who creates the environment where the family has a "soft place to land". It is a safe, noncombative environment.

You interact with your Man and your children in such a way that there is no loser - there is just learning and respecting and forgiving. You don't want the people you love to feel they have just been made less than the best person you know they are striving to be.

Culturally, there is an emphasis on the "Winner" of a conflict as having the higher value, the "Loser" as the lower value. Whereas, in my belief system anyway, a homemaker works to create a win-win environment.

Not arguing, fighting, "parenting" or regulating our Man's behavior at every turn often leads to criticism by more "liberated women", other men observing dynamics, and is seen as weak. It actually takes great strength - and faith - and loyalty - to keep your mouth shut and wait and trust your Man to find his way on things. That silence is often perceived as weakness instead of patience.


7. Being a Homemaker is not sexy.

The actual nuts-and-bolts of running a home well is not sexy. Changing diapers, scrubbing the bathroom, making the week's shopping list, running the kid's to the doctors when they are sick - it just isn't sexy. This in and of itself is not a deal breaker for being a homemaker, though. As it has it's rewards in and of itself. However...

In our culture, sexual vivacity is valued - but not promoted as compatable with homemaking, so there is a lose-lose dynamic for the Homemaker. Sexual or not, she becomes devalued.

Many people cannot reconcile sexual lust/stimulation for a woman and also see her legitimately within a role that is "motherly" or quality homemaker material as well. (I was 8 months pregant at my baby shower and a friend said to me: "Don't you think it's time you stop wearing those dresses and heels?" A Feminist, liberated friend wanted me to tone down my sexuality because I was pregnant. It made her uncomfortable.) It is not only men who are effected by this phenomena - it is a cultural issue of devaluing us as complete people.

Hence the Madonna-Hor complex. You are no longer valued as a desirable sexual being if you are a homemaker. We as Homemakers are often encouraged to become neutered/removed from our sexual essence to placate society's (or even sometimes our husband's - and children's) inability to accept us as whole, vibrant, sexually valued women.

Many women/homemakers buy into this belief system as well - that their usefullness/sexual "value" becomes only reproductive, but their passion and feminine sexuality is not experienced as compatable with their roles as good mothers/homemakers. Of course this damages their own self-value/self-esteem/sense of value.

The mystique of the MILF is a movement towards a healing in this regard... but I suspect that is a topic for another day...
 

Bonez

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Maybe you should throw around something other than "our culture". I don't know which culture you are. Say "us injins" or "we americans" don't say "our culture"

Kidding, culture is perception. A lot of people I know, where I come from, have a different mindset than a lot of females in other parts of the world. The man is in charge of what goes on outside of the house. The female is in charge of what goes on inside.

I'll give you two easy examples.

My friend last week received his paycheck. He immediately spent half on whatever he wanted, which was alcohol. His choice, his life, his problem. He wasn't allowed to sleep at home that night. He respected that, and slept at a friends house. (no drama, girls here can read their guys before they get close enough to live together)

Another friend this weekend said "i'm sick of him today, I hooked him up with some 27 year old prostitute". He told me the girl was cool, and the prositute didn't break any of his girlfriends rules. She told him to help out more around the house, when I last saw him he said he was getting supper ready, and he was doing some late spring cleaning.
 

LovelyLady

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Bonez said:
Maybe you should throw around something other than "our culture". "
:) I was going with "Western" as used by BigJohnson I quoted at the beginning. Perhaps, I should have said "prevailing American popular post-feminist culture as I have experienced it" Or maybe "mindset" or "belief system" or ??? rather than "Culture"? What would have been a more effective word? Society perhaps?
 

Bonez

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Just western reminds me of gun slinging cowboys. cowboys and indians seem so nice, like the only problems were outlaws, and white guys sleeping with pocahontas.
 

Nexus Polaris

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Reading this thread has been very interesting.

Some of the guys here are funny because they don't realize how supplicating they're being even just interacting with Lexie here in this thread. You can literally see them waiting on the edge of their seat for her response to whatever question they feel will suddenly unravel the mystery of women if they can only hear it answered by a real woman.

Others are then quick to shoot down the words of the village elders here with an obvious anticipation of female validation if they do so. A quick pat on the head. Good dog, woman approves.
 

LovelyLady

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Nexus Polaris said:
I can totally see this. It makes a lot of sense.

I don't really buy the part about women looking nice just for themselves, though. On some level, they want somebody to notice. Otherwise they would dress up just to sit around the house.
I work out of my home most of the time and I dress EVERY day as if I am going out to a regular job - makeup - the works. It is for myself.

Now... do you want me to scratch behind your ears, rub your belly or... okay, don't answer that :crackup: :flowers:
 

Nexus Polaris

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You're a weird one, Mr. Grinch. 60% of my friends are female, and half of them don't even put on clothes unless they're leaving the house.
 

LovelyLady

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Nexus Polaris said:
You're a weird one, Mr. Grinch. 60% of my friends are female, and half of them don't even put on clothes unless they're leaving the house.
They must keep the thermostat up pretty high in Winter then, huh? And that's Ms. Grinch to you. :nono: :crackup:
 

Nexus Polaris

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Actually, I thought about it some more, and it might be an age thing. I just noticed your age.

I've got a friend who is 45 and a hot little MILF who loves to get dolled up for no reason at all. She just loves to be girlie for the sake of being girlie.

But most of my female friends are in their 20's. It's all bathrobes, sweats, and the occassional bra and panty combo for most of them unless they're going somewhere.
 

LovelyLady

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Yup. I'm an old bird LOL - Like a Twinkie with an indefinite shelf life (Lex ;) )
 

Nexus Polaris

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Hey, the older the filling, the better the....... oh, fück it, I'm not going there.
 

Interceptor

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Lovely, you can change my diapers any day. And I still find it sexy!

What? What's wrong with wearing diapers? I'm an "old man" , you know?

I look pretty sexy myself in these diapers too!


:moon:

(in Austin Powers' voice) "Do I make you horny? Yeah, baby! Yeah....":cool:



:crackup:
 

Interceptor

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Absolutely, darling.


;)

BTW, how DID you know I wear "Depends"? So perceptive of you. Really.
 

LovelyLady

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Interceptor said:
Absolutely, darling.


;)

BTW, how DID you know I wear "Depends"? So perceptive of you. Really.
My woman's intuition is in tune with my cleared chakras :cheer: :flowers:
 
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