Woman's Point of View

[ketostix]

It would not have been a dealbreaker in and of itself (and that is how I tend to translate "test" when I read it used by the guys here - a "win-lose" in and of itself).

I had already agreed to spend time with him - but if he had agreed to let me buy and also not taken the lead in other areas as well, then longterm compatability would be off for us.

As it is, we are going to go skating together and have FUN!!!

Well it was a test because you said you wanted to pay for lunch, but really you didn't want to pay for lunch. You could've just not said all this and went to lunch and seen if he payed. The problem with women's tests is women say one thing and mean another and can never be believed. So if you had said you wanted him to pay for lunch, would this be a test too and if he payed wouldn't he have "faiedl" the test? Everything bad regarding relationships is women's fault.

 

[LovelyLady]

Well it was a test because you said you wanted to pay for lunch, but really you didn't want to pay for lunch. You could've just not said all this and went to lunch and seen if he payed. The problem with women's tests is women say one thing and mean another and can never be believed. So if you had said you wanted him to pay for lunch, would this be a test too and if he payed wouldn't he have "faiedl" the test? Everything bad regarding relationships is women's fault.

Interesting point of view. Again, you are functioning from a "pass/fail" test paradigm, whereas I was functioning from an information gathering "test" paradigm. So, this attempt for us to see eachother's experiences, we need to keep in mind that although we are usingthe same word, we are using it/experiencing it/ differently.

That being understood, I will try to see wher we can find commonground in processing this with you. I could have paid for lunch. I did not NOT WANT to - nor was I WANTING to - the actual Who Pays was irrelevant to me as an act in and of itself. What I think I got out of the whole exchange, in retrospect, was the information of who was going to be in charge in our dating dynamic. It was the emotional/relational dynamic (perhaps "frame" as it is used by the Men here?) he was going to set/wanted with me that I wanted to discover - not who literally treated.



I have dated when I have been in charge and it doesn't last long at all as I lose attraction quickly. I have been in LTR's that I have grown very frustrated when the men become lazy and I am expected to take over the lead. They are usually men who are still "becoming" men; they want the power and the benefits of being honored (closest word I can come up with for what I am trying to say) as The Man, but have no idea what to actually DO with it when a woman actually yields it to them.

If I had been militant about having to pay for half, he would not have wanted to go out with me afterall anyway

 

[bigjohnson]

.... using the same word, we are using it/experiencing it/ differently.

He's using it and you're misusing it, yes. You (apparently) ran an experiment to gather data. A survey, a study. Tests are graded and often are pass/fail, studies or experiments gather data.

 

[LovelyLady]

He's using it and you're misusing it, yes. You (apparently) ran an experiment to gather data. A survey, a study. Tests are graded and often are pass/fail, studies or experiments gather data.

Good point. So then are you saying what I did was Not a test, since there was no passing or failing?

LOL I am thinking maybe it was a Quiz LOL

 

[LovelyLady]

The concept of Tests has been one of the things that has fascinated me in this forum. I have a tendancy to look at it as gathering information about a man - rather than a pass/fail situation.

Just had a man call me on one yesterday! He really made me laugh that he saw it as one LOL I never really thought about it that way until he said it, though.

My initial post was to state that this man had drawn my attention to this being a test. I think there are a myriad of ways we test eachother to see what the other person is made of.

Can we roll with it? laugh at it? His "spanking" statement was a test of how I handle comments like that. Did he blatantly say "Excuse me, I have a test for you: are you an uptight prude?" Was that dishonest of him to not be upfront? Was he tuned into that statement being a prude test? I don't think so. He was just being a man and I was able to laugh and enjoy that about him. Like he was able to tease and laugh at me for being a woman - little tests and all. He wasn't phased by it even a little bit. He wasn't wanting me to be like a man, either. He wasn't wanting me to think like a man, process like a man, or relate to him in the way a man would relate. He liked me being a woman/wasn't thrown by it all. Refreshing.

Think Cary Grant. He let women be women and didn't get freaked out when they were women.

 

[Interceptor]

My initial post was to state that this man had drawn my attention to this being a test. I think there are a myriad of ways we test eachother to see what the other person is made of.

Can we roll with it? laugh at it? His "spanking" statement was a test of how I handle comments like that. Did he blatantly say "Excuse me, I have a test for you: are you an uptight prude?" Was that dishonest of him to not be upfront? Was he tuned into that statement being a prude test? I don't think so. He was just being a man and I was able to laugh and enjoy that about him. Like he was able to tease and laugh at me for being a woman - little tests and all. He wasn't phased by it even a little bit. He wasn't wanting me to be like a man, either. He wasn't wanting me to think like a man, process like a man, or relate to him in the way a man would relate. He liked me being a woman/wasn't thrown by it all. Refreshing.

Think Cary Grant. He let women be women and didn't get freaked out when they were women.[/

Excellent statement, LL.There is so much for the men to learn from this one paragraph, I had to quote it for emphasis.

I'm taking you out to ice skating too.:woo:

 

[LovelyLady]

I'm taking you out to ice skating too.:woo:

Okay Interceptor (giggle)... but I'll spring for the lunch! :crackup:

 

[Interceptor]

Okay Interceptor (giggle)... but I'll spring for the lunch! :crackup:

What are you wearing right now?

 

[LovelyLady]

ROFL speechless

 

[just so suave]

Lexie wanna hook up

 

[Interceptor]

ROFL speechless

Speechless? Just speechless?

Then I take that you're wearing nothing at all??



LL,I like you more and more.

(Intereceptor visualizes LL sitting at her computer wearing nothing at all while sipping some tea.....)



Then again, wait..........is "Speechless" a perfume?

Hmmm. I think I smell the aroma from here.

Ah....yes. Speechless, the Perfume.

 

[Interceptor]

Lexie wanna hook up

I just saw this!!
:crackup: :crackup:



:moon:



:crackup:

I love it!

 

[LovelyLady]

:crackup:

 

[BlackJackal]

I don't have a problem with it, mainly because I don't think guys should have problems with a girl wanting to stay single. I think problems arise here when you've got a couple that's been dating for a while and the girl wants to turn it into a relationship, while the guy might want to just keep it casual because he's dating around and doesn't want to get tied down. And then the girl's reaction would most likely be due to the fact that it really feels like a personal slap in the face like this guy is saying to you "hey, you're great to hang out with sometimes and I like you, but not enough to give up all other girls for you." It's a jealousy problem. She really likes the guy and want him to like her just as much.

I think this is why it's important to be up front about what you're wanting out of a relationship fairly early on in the dating process. If you just want to date around, but the girl you've been taking out wants a LTR, you've got to let her know ASAP that that's not what you're looking for and it's nothing personal about her, just where you're at in your life.[/QUOTE]

I strongly agree, and at risk of having the woman reconsider when I tell her I have no plans to get into any LTR, I still tell them. Not so much to be a good guy, but to just save myself from the drama that would otherwise happen. And even though most would let me hit despite being dissapointed cause I dont want an LTR, they still seem to try to get on that level with me.

I even tell them to not start no s*** if they happen to see me talk to another babe. They dont, but I still sense resentment. Then again its more to the girl instead of me..

 

[Interceptor]

If there's at least one thing that woman really, desperately want Men to knw is that women almost above all else want Honesty.

Problem is, that many males tink they shouldn't be upfornt about it.
So women become distrustful.
Because men are disingenuous.Sometimes.
We aren't always sincere.

It's either cowardice. Or just manipulation.
Healthy women respond well to sincerity. You may not believe it. But a lot of what men know nowadays inside of the communuity is counter intuitive.
That is, against what you believe.Or rather what youve been conditioned to believe.


At some point you will have to state your intentions.
At some point women will wonder whatdo you intend to do with them.

Jst sex?
An LTR?

You'd be surprised how accepting women can be when you state your intentions openly.

"I'm seeing other women. But I really want to see you too."


"I'm not really seeing anyone else. Frankly, no other woman really captivates me like you. I want to see you exclusively."



At some point. Maybe , not at first really. Because in the beginning stages your're in the attraction phase, and then the seduction begins.
After attraction you have to have the comfort and rapprort. Stating you only want sex, as iopposed to implying it may not be the best sell. And definitely statijg you want her as a GF when you just met or early on, is also going to meet resistance and skepticsm.

Stating that you want her as GF in the beginning is a No No.
It breaks the natural flow of seduction. You're denying the woman to be seduced the way she likes, and is naturally wired to expect.

 

[ketostix]

Can we roll with it? laugh at it? His "spanking" statement was a test of how I handle comments like that. Did he blatantly say "Excuse me, I have a test for you: are you an uptight prude?" Was that dishonest of him to not be upfront? Was he tuned into that statement being a prude test? I don't think so. He was just being a man

Just like a woman for you to take things out of context, miscontrue things and just subjectively perceive things and make inaccurate comparisons in general.

He said he would spank you if you didn't quit testing. So he doesn't want you testing him in the future. I agree him saying "spank you" probably was more than just putting a humorous spin on his serious request, it was a compliance test. But the difference between a man's test and a woman's test is it's not a trick question. If he had said "don't stop testing me" but actually wanted you to test him, that would be an example of a trick question. Men don't give trick questions. There's better ways you could've gotten your answer to the question, "will a man lead" than through trickery.

 

[Lexie]

Anyway, I guess my questions are:

Do you, as a woman, believe it is possible to get out of the LJBF zone, because every girl I tell them I like them, they see me as a friend. So, I'm wondering, if there is, what it is?

If they see you as "just friends" chances are they aren't interested and won't be for a long time. I do believe that the best, and longest-lasting, relationships start out as friendships, so if that's where you'd like to take things then stick around for the long haul. If you're just looking to date, I would say move on. For some reason or another she doesn't see you as dating material and she may have her sights set elsewhere.

 

[Lexie]

Lexie wanna hook up

That's not what I'm here for.

 

[Lexie]

Alright, let me ask you this then: what do you see as dealbreakers, other than pussification (read: indecisiveness, clinginess)? It doesn't have to be one characteristic that's a dealbreaker in and of itself, but that when combined with others would really turn you off.

Based solely on first impressions, here's a non-comprehensive list of personal deal-breakers:

smelling bad
wearing clothing that promotes something I don't believe in
inappropriate touching
foul language
derogatory comments
interrupting a conversation/acting rude towards my friends
an arrogant attitude (ie, acting like I should be honored that they're talking to me or demanding my attention. Note that this is different from ****iness, a little of that's ok!)

...I'll edit this when I think of more.

It's refreshing to hear that a woman couldn't rattle of a list of "don't wants" or deal breakers right off the top of her head. So many women focus on what they don't want that they seldom can say what they really want beyond the same old dried out cliches.

That's why I specify that this list is based on first impressions, those I think you can "rattle off"; they're just small things you notice that, given the need to make a quick decision, you fall back on. This is also why I didn't dive into character traits or physical traits, because the former you obviously can't know in the first few seconds, and the latter can grow on you.

 

[ketostix]

That's not what I'm here for.

That's what all women will say at a bar if asked. But an hour later they'll be going home with some guy they met..