Why the wall for men is much worse than the wall for females

[BeExcellent]

Advice from the old lady:

Agree largely with @itouchyou on this. I am an example of exactly what he says. And I respect my man greatly even though I out earn him.

As a woman of means I can confirm two things:
1. I require a certain level of financial means to consider a man. Nobody under 6 figures need apply. I’m not going to be a sugar mama for anyone and a guy making under 100K is never going to relate to me. I’ll always think I know more than him and that’s no good.
2. I’m choosing based on desire first, intelligence second and looks third. If a man is not sexy, smart and handsome? Pass. So he must have those 3 traits AND make enough money to understand the world I inhabit.

As to the Texas comments, oil field guys can make bank and are greatly respected as a rule. My brother in law is a career oil guy in TX and a cousin is an oil executive in Houston. They’ve both done very well and are both happily married in 20+ year marriages. My sister and my cousin’s wife both deeply respect their husbands.

Neither has Chad or Chadlite looks but both are REAL men.

 

[Pandora]

You can get her to submit temporarily if you give the illusion that you are (or are at least on her level) and give them a good d1cking.

Yes bro i totally agree. In the short term you can play the bad boy game. She can fall in love with you if you dyck her down and are masculine. She will submit temporarily.

In the long term it will be very difficult to get get her to submit unless you have rock solid frame.

For example if you marry her and you guys need to make a big decision on what school the kids go to....if you guys disagree she will tell you to kiss her azz.

 

[Pandora]

Advice from the old lady:

Agree largely with @itouchyou on this. I am an example of exactly what he says. And I respect my man greatly even though I out earn him.

As a woman of means I can confirm two things:
1. I require a certain level of financial means to consider a man. Nobody under 6 figures need apply. I’m not going to be a sugar mama for anyone and a guy making under 100K is never going to relate to me. I’ll always think I know more than him and that’s no good.
2. I’m choosing based on desire first, intelligence second and looks third. If a man is not sexy, smart and handsome? Pass. So he must have those 3 traits AND make enough money to understand the world I inhabit.

As to the Texas comments, oil field guys can make bank and are greatly respected as a rule. My brother in law is a career oil guy in TX and a cousin is an oil executive in Houston. They’ve both done very well and are both happily married in 20+ year marriages. My sister and my cousin’s wife both deeply respect their husbands.

Neither has Chad or Chadlite looks but both are REAL men.

This does not invalidate the claim that all things being EQUAL that women want the man that makes more money than them.

Why do you think it is so difficult for successful career women to find a partner? It is because most men make less than her.

 

[Pandora]

If a woman puts that much weight into your wealth, you don't want that woman anyways, cause she's looking for a beta bux.


See what I mean, never follow advice from a woman. Here we have a 54 years old women with 3 kids who feels she's entitled to a man who makes 6 figure or more, complete delusion. But in reality what they respond to is a man who doesn't give a fvck what she thinks she's entitled to, a man who says "oh you're a 54 year old women with three kids and looking for a guy that makes 6 figs? Ok good luck in your endeavors"

Brother every woman looking to marry is looking for a beta bux. Marriage is one big game of beta bux.

Yeh but i think we are agreeing that you should be able to walk away. I think you are saying find that rare woman who truly does not care about income. Yeh man I agree.

 

[Pandora]

Women are really good at detecting your income level. I dated this one Ivy league chick.

I went to my friends house. My friend lives like a hippie. This girl starts pointing out things in his house that betrays the fact that he secretly had money.

My jaw hit the floor. I had never even noticed these things. This whole time I thought my friend was average/ struggling.

So they may no blatantly bring up the topic of income but believe me they are scanning you for markers of financial success.

 

[SW15]

Then one thing I should have elaborated on with dressing well: I dress well in the sense that my clothing is clean/ironed/well-fitted.

However, I've been told I dress like somewhat of a nerd.

Today, for example, I'm wearing a polo tucked into jeans.

I'm willing to make certain changes to boost my chances with a woman. I refuse to totally change who I am though. This type of wardrobe is what I'm most comfortable in. Do you think my style hinders me?

I believe that both your style and your social skills are hindering you.

You're not projecting a very sexual image. Polos (collared shirts) are not very sexual. Khaki pants are not sexual either.

Ralph Lauren has some t-shirts that have the polo logo on them. Those are a little bit better but still not very sexual. I find Ralph Lauren to be a little bit preppy but some could argue it is a classier brand.

Women are really good at detecting your income level. I dated this one Ivy league chick.

I went to my friends house. My friend lives like a hippie. This girl starts pointing out things in his house that betrays the fact that he secretly had money.

My jaw hit the floor. I had never even noticed these things. This whole time I thought my friend was average/ struggling.

So they may no blatantly bring up the topic of income but believe me they are scanning you for markers of financial success.

I agree with this.

 

[Pandora]

Because most guys are betas, she making more money than him make them feel less of a man, and that's wrong. Cause being a man is way much more than how much money he makes.


Yeah they're looking for the most stable guys, but way often than not those stable guys are the blue pill ones, the weak one who now can get the girls with there I say it... money, cause they have a good job,

Those guys never had frame to begin with, never were masculine, always were putting them in the pedestal and never walked away. Then she starts making more money, and she loses the little respect she had for him, therefore she starts to berate him, he tries to do what she wants, this turns her off even more, therefore divorce. She complaining about making more money than him was just a symptom of a the disease.

Yeh i can agree with this. You make a good point.

I think we can conclude that if you make less than her that your frame needs to be rock solid of else its curtains. Your frame needs to be rock solid in general but especially if she is doubling your income.

I also agree that many high incone earners are puzzy whipped betas.

 

[BeExcellent]

If a woman puts that much weight into your wealth, you don't want that woman anyways, cause she's looking for a beta bux.


See what I mean, never follow advice from a woman. Here we have a 54 years old women with 3 kids who feels she's entitled to a man who makes 6 figure or more, complete delusion. But in reality what they respond to is a man who doesn't give a fvck what she thinks she's entitled to, a man who says "oh you're a 54 year old women with three kids and looking for a guy that makes 6 figs? Ok good luck in your endeavors"

Actually next month I marry a 46yo man who is a pro athlete in an adventure sport, who makes the 6 figure income, is 6’3” and handsome AF. He chose me, pursued me and proposed. I have the 4.5karat ring etc. And he’s a brilliantly intelligent man too. Working his own product to launch in the next few years.

The avatar is me in my 50s. Unretouched photo proof (which I found funny/ironic). So ya. No delusion here.

Cheers

 

[GoodMan32]

Exactly my point. No matter how much they make they dont want to share it with you.

Career women still want you to pay for the date even if they make more money than you. They want to feel protected. The want the illusion of you making more money than them. It is hardwired in a womans DNA to crave this.

If your wife makes more than you she will berate you and not submit. This is why most divorces are intitated by college educated women.

You must be better than you woman in virtually EVERYTHING for her to even think about submission.

I hate this ugly truth but its the truth.

I had a high school teacher who had spent many years as a doctor. Then he did a career change to go into teaching.

He told my class he went from being the higher-earning spouse to being the lower-earning spouse.

He had just become a teacher when I had him. I wouldn't be shocked if he eventually ended up getting divorced. Or who knows? Maybe his marriage is a special case because he at least made more than her for such a long time.

 

[Pandora]

I had a high school teacher who had spent many years as a doctor. Then he did a career change to go into teaching.

He told my class he went from being the higher-earning spouse to being the lower-earning spouse.

He had just become a teacher when I had him. I wouldn't be shocked if he eventually ended up getting divorced. Or who knows? Maybe his marriage is a special case because he at least made more than her for such a long time.

Yeh good luck to that guy. Maybe his status as a former physician is enough to keep her in line. Maybe he made good investments and is living on residual income.

Its insane how quickly they switch up on you when they start making more money. Its subtle at first.

You start noticing more shyt tests, they disagree with your decision making etc.

To be honest it is hurtful if you dont know whats going on. When I was 33 my ex gf started acting crazy when she started making more money. I went from her admiring me to her being difficult in a matter of months.

Like the other poster said you just have to be willing to let her walk.

 

[BeExcellent]

This does not invalidate the claim that all things being EQUAL that women want the man that makes more money than them.

Why do you think it is so difficult for successful career women to find a partner? It is because most men make less than her.

Actually I’ll tell you what I think it is. I don’t disagree about preference for man who makes more. But once you reach the 3% or 1% eschelon financially as a woman you no longer need a man for resources. So the priority shifts.

The real problem I see in people around me is that the women learn to become ball busters to reach that level of success, which is unquestionably masculine energy, and that energy simply does not work in relationships with masculine men. I utilize masculine energy in business at times (because feminine energy is mistaken for weakness in business), but I reside in feminine energy with my masculine man.

Many highly successful women lose the ability to do this and thus I understand the complaints around here about careerist women from that standpoint.

But a highly successful masculine man will have an energy vibration that highly successful women will submit to.

 

[SW15]

never follow advice from a woman. Here we have a 54 years old women with 3 kids who feels she's entitled to a man who makes 6 figure or more, complete delusion. But in reality what they respond to is a man who doesn't give a fvck what she thinks she's entitled to, a man who says "oh you're a 54 year old women with three kids and looking for a guy that makes 6 figs? Ok good luck in your endeavors"

She's out of the core demographic that men on this forum are seeking in their real life dating endeavors.

With that said, she is an example of why 'The Wall' is generally soft for women. There are plenty of men who will date a 45-54 year old woman who still has children under 18 living with her. There are even childless men who will willingly become cuckolds for single moms, even 33+ single moms. I've known childless men in real life who've committed to single moms in their mid-30s and had babies with them. That's an extreme beta male/Average Frustrated Chump move. There are also plenty of internet stories about that too.

Male thirst is extreme and has been extreme for about the past 20 years.

 

[BeExcellent]

The other thing I’ve seen personally is women who WILL choose strategically for wealth/prestige above all else.

When I was in my 20s working in an academic teaching hospital there were many doctors who showed interest in me. All very smart, some also handsome. This one fellow kept making passes at me. He was tall but not handsome so I was not interested. He also gave off that “nice guy” vibe. He was genuinely a kind person and an excellent physician. He ended up marrying a woman whose stated goal working at the hospital was “to marry a doctor and never work again.” She was cuter than him but maybe a 6 in my estimation. Before they married she had moved in with him and quit work. They remain married today and have a family. I hope she came to truly respect him because he is very smart and a great doctor & person.

She commented one time years ago that he was not attractive but suited her aims just fine. I found that disgusting and could never sell out that way.

So yeah guys have to really understand who they are getting involved with. That poor doc had no clue.

 

[BeExcellent]

I’m also unquestionably an outlier in the looks department @SW15. That is partly fortunate genetics and 100% discipline and healthy lifestyle choices.

When I met my man in real life he thought I was the hottest woman in the venue. I was the one he wanted to meet. Before he knew my age, marital status, anything. And this was in Old Town in a venue packed with ASU co-eds, who, as you are well aware, are not ugly.

He is not thirsty and has women approach him often. He is a happily taken man. Why does this bug you so much?

We were recently out in Miami and I hold my own there just fine, even at my age. I thought there were hotter women in Miami than PHX frankly, but you have to know where to go as we’ve discussed before.

 

[SW15]

The other thing I’ve seen personally is women who WILL choose strategically for wealth/prestige above all else.

When I was in my 20s working in an academic teaching hospital there were many doctors who showed interest in me. All very smart, some also handsome. This one fellow kept making passes at me. He was tall but not handsome so I was not interested. He also gave off that “nice guy” vibe. He was genuinely a kind person and an excellent physician. He ended up marrying a woman whose stated goal working at the hospital was “to marry a doctor and never work again.” She was cuter than him but maybe a 6 in my estimation. Before they married she had moved in with him and quit work. They remain married today and have a family. I hope she came to truly respect him because he is very smart and a great doctor & person.

She commented one time years ago that he was not attractive but suited her aims just fine. I found that disgusting and could never sell out that way.

So yeah guys have to really understand who they are getting involved with. That poor doc had no clue.

I have said many times on this forum before that there are plenty of physicians who are beta males with poor frames who lead with their wallets.

I agree that there are still women who will choose strategically for wealth/prestige above all else. This is a little less common than it once was and it takes more money for men to pull this off now than it did in the 1970s-1990s. Women now have careers and barely have any use for a provider beta male. A lot of women who are 30+ with bachelor's and advanced degrees earn enough of a living that even a higher earning man barely outearns them.

With that said, even a careerist woman making a solid living at $125k a year will be impressed by a man earning $500k+ per year. A guy making $140k won't impress this woman at all despite being a far above average earner.

The example in this quote happened in the 1990s. Something like that would have been less likely to happen 2010-present. Also, it is possible that the woman eventually respected the man simply because she was from an older generation that was less entitled. Millennials and Gen Z women would never act like that. I'm an older Millennial who has mainly interacted with Millennials over the years.

I’m also unquestionably an outlier in the looks department @SW15. That is partly fortunate genetics and 100% discipline and healthy lifestyle choices.

When I met my man in real life he thought I was the hottest woman in the venue. I was the one he wanted to meet. Before he knew my age, marital status, anything. And this was in Old Town in a venue packed with ASU co-eds, who, as you are well aware, are not ugly.

He is not thirsty and has women approach him often. He is a happily taken man. Why does this bug you so much?

We were recently out in Miami and I hold my own there just fine, even at my age. I thought there were hotter women in Miami than PHX frankly, but you have to know where to go as we’ve discussed before.

Yes, there are outliers in the 45+ age group. Liz Hurley is one of the most well known examples of a woman who aged well. There are some other ones too.

I have been out in Old Town Scottsdale many times in my lifetime. It is realistic that an older woman could be eye catching in an Old Town bar. In my subjective tastes (I prefer women younger than I am), I couldn't imagine that I would deem a 40+ woman the most attractive in an Old Town bar. I agree with your comment about the attractiveness level of the Arizona State female student body and both Old Town and Mill Avenue bars get ASU students to patronize them.

Miami is also a place where there are plenty of attractive women.

 

[BeExcellent]

That super alpha guy is either a product of your imagination or a cvck for marrying a 50 years old woman with 3 kids.

He’s exactly as stated. Sorry my reality blows your beliefs outta the water.

As noted above I am an outlier. Your beliefs are applicable for 95% women my age in US (probably somewhat lower in Asia where women can age better) but not applicable for me.

I’ve been a hot woman all my adult life. I know the game well. Married a nightclub owner, lots of nightlife experience having been in that business. So I offer a perspective that “John” isn’t going to have because he can’t get a girl like me as painted by the OP.

It is what it is. Don’t hate the player, hate the game. Or better yet become a student of it and elevate yourself.

 

[logicallefty]

What I have learned over the years about men women, and the wall is that women do hit it before men but I think it's much later than what most of you will agree with. Late 40s to early 50s if we are judging based on overall SMV and available options. Men have the ability to prolong the wall beyond early 50s when women hit it. If the men are physically and mentally prepared, they stand the best chance for the longer term than women do. I got divorced earlier this year and moved from Illinois to Florida. There are a lot of men and women in my area, early 50s and beyond. I have made some observations.

As for the older MEN, what I have noticed with the MEN is that they either get it or they don't. They either understand reality or they don't. The ones who do understand reality still look really good and are playing it right and getting the women who are young and hot. The men who don't understand reality are more beta than ever. I have seen them in public going after women with old school beta tactics thinking that, after all of the hardships they have suffered, that somehow these beta tactics will work. But the grey hair and old guy look just makes them more pathetic!

As for the older WOMEN, they try to play it cool and push their luck as far as it might go. I've talked to several women here out and about, given them my number, and texted. Three women all asked me the same thing "If we hit it off after we go out, I will only continue to see you if you stop seeing other women". In other words, they wanted ONE date and then exclusivity! Made me conclude that they are hard up to find a good man, and if they still had attraction to me after going out once, they expected me to give all others up for them. I don't think so!!

My conclusion: the wall sux for both men and women! Us men can delay it longer than women can, if we put our minds and bodies to it. Women have more power up front, but when it's gone, it's gone.. Especially when dealing with a man like me who is not desperate. If I want sex that much, I have an awesome woman in Illinois who can fly down here for the weekend and pound my brains out!!!

 

[SW15]

What I have learned over the years about men women, and the wall is that women do hit it before men but I think it's much later than what most of you will agree with. Late 40s to early 50s if we are judging based on overall SMV and available options.

A lot of men like to think that 'The Wall' hits around 32-35, but it usually doesn't work out that way. It's often closer to 50. Male thirst has had a way of reducing the onset and the effects of 'The Wall'.

Men have the ability to prolong the wall beyond early 50s when women hit it. If the men are physically and mentally prepared, they stand the best chance for the longer term than women do.

So-called male peak SMV hits around 35-40. However, the typical 35-40 year old male and supposedly peak SMV is often a vagina beggar who settles for whatever mediocre to subpar prospect he can get. That's why Rollo's Peak SMV chart never made any sense to me. However, you're correct that there are 35-54 year old men who don't act like the typical vagina beggar who is 35-54.

I got divorced earlier this year and moved from Illinois to Florida. There are a lot of men and women in my area, early 50s and beyond. I have made some observations.

Congrats on the move!

As for the older MEN, what I have noticed with the MEN is that they either get it or they don't. They either understand reality or they don't. The ones who do understand reality still look really good and are playing it right and getting the women who are young and hot. The men who don't understand reality are more beta than ever. I have seen them in public going after women with old school beta tactics thinking that, after all of the hardships they have suffered, that somehow these beta tactics will work. But the grey hair and old guy look just makes them more pathetic!

I agree that there are plenty of older men who act like typical AFCs/betas.

 

[DonJuanjr]

Three women all asked me the same thing "If we hit it off after we go out, I will only continue to see you if you stop seeing other women". In other words, they wanted ONE date and then exclusivity! Made me conclude that they are hard up to find a good man, and if they still had attraction to me after going out once, they expected me to give all others up for them. I don't think so!!

You should have told them "desperation is not an attractive trait to have".

 

[BeExcellent]

It does sound super fake, a 40 years old 6'4" pro athlete, no children, never married, with women chasing him marrying a 50 years old woman woth 3 kids.

You could be hot all your life, but age does lie, skin gets loose. Very sus.

He’s 46 and will be 47 this fall. Why lie? That’s pointless. Know what ages you faster than anything? Sun over exposure. I’ve avoided the sun all my life after never doing tanning beds when they were popular in the 80s and 90s. Women younger than me have crepey loose skin, often from sunburns decades ago. I’ve avoided much of that. I also have genes in my favor. My grandmother’s hair never greyed significantly and neither did my dad’s. They both aged timelessly and gracefully. My grandmother looked late 70s when she died at 97, and she still had a remarkable figure at that advanced age (after surviving two husbands with 30+ years of marriage each time).

There are women who look good after 50. Unlike @logicallefty and the women he dates, I’m not desperate and I’d never ask if a man will be exclusive after one date. I have more a “let the best girl win” attitude and typically men are asking me for exclusivity with 4-6 weeks. But I am easy to hang with, hold informed conversation, understand social dynamics and am an elegant asset to a man. I reflect well on my man, treat my man well & am not jaded or bitter at all. So it’s easy to stand out against women who act desperate, aren’t easy to get along with, act masculine or insecure, etc.

And many beautiful women are terribly insecure because looks are all they have to offer. So ya for them the wall is scary. For me it’s just part of life and I’m cool with it. Graceful. That translates into my vibe, which is real. Real is rare.

Rare is always in demand