Why sosuave sucks and why you should be yourself

Double

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Originally posted by nishbuk

That is why the bootcamp works. It is still an incredibly useful tool for people to change themselves, however it probably can't help someone deal with very deep seated problems.
hey man,

i already prepared a long text to point out why it isnt the right thing for some people and now you agree with me anyway!

It's the man who doesn't take action that presents the greater problem. His head is crammed full of solid knowledge from months of reading and posting, but absolutely nothing has changed inside him, and his life is the same miserable routine it's always been.
I wouldnt say that something is wrong with him, because it is just natural to want to stay comfortable, change is very very hard. I would say the "problem" is this person hasnt suffered enough horrible pain in his life that he has NO OTHER CHANCE BUT TO CHANGE OR KILL HIMSELF, but he is too scared to kill himself so he actually has no choice but to change.


the bootcamp is very good for building confidence for picking up chicks...but wont fix emotional problems.
friv got what i am saying.

for the average person comming here - some attitude adjustment and better communication skills will do it. this thread is NOT for persons who are happy with themselves and only lack to get hot chicks with ease.

it is directed to the persons who have deep inner problems that arent easily solved.

i can confidently say i was taking actions, forcing myself to be more social, getting new clothes, a new body, tan, tougher attitude and blablabla. while it DID help it didnt solve all my emotional problems - my old deppression still comes back now and then.

thats the only thing we are saying, taking action and forcing yourself to go out and approach WILL not make you happy for the long term. but we do want you to take action - but in finding out who you are and what you want and to go for it! and when you did find out and did get the things you want then getting hot chicks will be so easy that you dont need any techniques and then you will understand why we say become yourself and everything will fall into place.
 

Visceral

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Originally posted by Double
I wouldn't say that something is wrong with him, because it is natural to want to stay comfortable and change is very hard. I would say the "problem" is this person hasn't suffered enough horrible pain in his life that he has NO OTHER CHOICE BUT TO CHANGE OR KILL HIMSELF, but where he is too scared to kill himself so he actually has no choice but to change.
You're right. No-one here really has to change, and no-one here really needs a better life, because we all have good enough. It's a rare breed who is never satisfied with the status quo and always wants better for himself.

Hence the "You just don't want it bad enough" problem; since we don't need better, all we can do is want better, which is made hard since we don't have the need. We have to find a way to make ourselves want _______ enough to do what's necessary to get it.
 
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Double

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well i wouldnt be so sure if you or other people really _want_ to have that burning need. do you think it is fun to change for the better? it is exciting thats for sure but it aint fun all the time homie. it will be fun when the one has gotten what he desired for so long and everything else will be just a fun experience.

i remember you posted too in that thread about mental disorders, so you know that lifeforce and me have a lot of them, and we have ADHD too. while it obviously has it's benefits having these "disorders" it has many downsides too in this society because it is very hard to find your own way.

i will never know how being an average person and having an average life is but i do know that i probably would prefer being like that......because it is easy and fits with society.
 

Visceral

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Perhaps I exaggerated the "burning need" part; my view of both normality and abnormality are pretty warped too.

I can only describe the dedication to a goal and immunity to pain and sacrifice that I see in successful men as something like need. From my perspective, their efforts are forced only in that they are struggling against some external factor; on the inside, it seems like whatever's going on just pours out of its own accord.

If we're not going to talk in terms of need, then I would bring up the fact that these men also alway seem to enjoy their labors. What would be torture - or physically and/or mentally impossible - for the average Joe seems like it's immensely pleasurable for them, given that they go out of their way to "indulge" in it.

Stay away from average - the average life is nothing more than an endless litany of chores perfomed solely to avoid pain and devoid of any physical, emotional, or intellectual satisfaction. Trust me on this; it's what I wake up to every morning.
 
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nishbuk

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Fair enough. :) I didn't read your first post.
 

coder

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If you have mental problems, this web site is not where you need to get help. Just because people will listen to you whine about your insecurities doesn't mean you are receiving psychological help. If you want to understand what makes women feel attraction for men, this site can help you. If you need a shrink, that is more than a web site can give.
 

BlackJackal

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Originally posted by Visceral
Perhaps I exaggerated the "burning need" part; my view of both normality and abnormality are pretty warped too.

I can only describe the dedication to a goal and immunity to pain and sacrifice that I see in successful men as something like need. From my perspective, their efforts are forced only in that they are struggling against some external factor; on the inside, it seems like whatever's going on just pours out of its own accord.

If we're not going to talk in terms of need, then I would bring up the fact that these men also alway seem to enjoy their labors. What would be torture - or physically and/or mentally impossible - for the average Joe seems like it's immensely pleasurable for them, given that they go out of their way to "indulge" in it.

Stay away from average - the average life is nothing more than an endless litany of chores perfomed solely to avoid pain and devoid of any physical, emotional, or intellectual satisfaction. Trust me on this.
Those type of men simply fall in love with the struggle. Since they're struggling for what they desire, instead struggling just to struggle which the majority easily falls into anyway, they tend to be persaverent. Machiavelli even said," It is neccesity that makes men take action. But once neccesity is gone, all thats left is rot and decay."
In order to get to heaven you have to go through hell, I always say. You're always gonna be yourself from the cradle to the grave. I dont seek change, rather I seek evolution. I do that by keeping what still works for me, casting out old/weak ideals/actions, and adding stronger/ more valuable ideas/actions.
 

Visceral

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"Fall in love with the struggle" - exactly what was thinking.

My question is how does this happen? Or how do they make it to the point where the love comes into play? Somehow I doubt it was there before they even started.
 
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TheInfamousCBear

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Originally posted by Visceral
"Fall in love with the struggle" - exactly what was thinking.

My question is how does this happen? Or how do they make it to the point where the love comes into play? Somehow I doubt it was there before they even started.
]

I can comment on this, cause me, my mother, and a couple of my friends are like this...The reason why we are this way is because we are used to being the underdogs, and we are put in a situation where you see people constantly doing better than you, and you want that...You will not settle for less and youll go to extreme means to get what you want...Ive seen too many people make stupid mistakes and Im not going that route, it doesnt matter to me what normalcies I have to sacrifice to get where I want to be...

When I was a kid, I was dead broke, and I had to go to school with all of these rich kids....It was near impossible to get girls cause me and my friends were all broke and wore all these fukked up clothes and plus I was fat as hell...I saw what worked for other people and I lost weight and got better clothes and changed my behavior out of sheer will, but I still didnt get the amount of girls I thought I should get...I knew if I was prolly somewhere else, I would get wayyyy more women, but I could have kids from fukking too much, or I would just settle cause Im getting ass...But then I would just be average and I wouldnt be able to live to my true potential...I got big plans for myself and I dont need a relationship or kids to slow it down like that...

Sure people have said Im crazy because they figure I should get in where I fit in, but Id rather just fight to do what I want rather just to lie down and be average and leave my expensive ass hometown....Plus I belive that everything happens for a reason, thats why my life sucked in the beginning, cause it made me strong and kept me out of certian situations...Now Im 22, no kids, no jail record or anything, I can pretty much do what I want, and In a matter of weeks, my financial dreams will start to come true....If you have any more questions go ahead and ask...
 

BlackJackal

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TheInfamous, we come from the same breed man, I feel ya. Trying to go beyond average can be exhausting, lonely, hopeless, and down right painful. Life aint never been easy for me, and I was convinced along time ago that it never will. My father told this when I was way younger that" Nobody in this world owe's you nothing and nothing in this world revolves around you."
I never forgot that, and let that advise sink in for a long time before it finally became truly clear. But when it did, the feelings became mutual. Right now things still aint lookin my way, but thats okay cause they will and when they do, I'm gonna take time to look back on everything good and bad that I went through, and be like damn...thats what made me who I am.
Thats the moment when you truly fall in love with the struggle.
 

TheInfamousCBear

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Originally posted by BlackJackal
TheInfamous, we come from the same breed man, I feel ya. Trying to go beyond average can be exhausting, lonely, hopeless, and down right painful. Life aint never been easy for me, and I was convinced along time ago that it never will. My father told this when I was way younger that" Nobody in this world owe's you nothing and nothing in this world revolves around you."
I never forgot that, and let that advise sink in for a long time before it finally became truly clear. But when it did, the feelings became mutual. Right now things still aint lookin my way, but thats okay cause they will and when they do, I'm gonna take time to look back on everything good and bad that I went through, and be like damn...thats what made me who I am.
Thats the moment when you truly fall in love with the struggle.
Trust me...As long as you belive you will make it and you try and dont give up, and you stay in control of what you can stay in control of, and you understand that things happen for a reason and you learn the lesson from it, you will get there....
 

izza

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Originally posted by Lifeforce
There's a stereotype of what a DJ is on this board. For some pooksters it's to become a perfect man, while for some others it's the be da playa. And a wide variaty of stuff in between.

No matter what the goal is there's alot of rules of what people should and shouldn't do. I understand it is necessary for people who just start out to see the difference in the "sosuave" way compared to their own.

But at some point this will backfire on the aspiring DJ. Let's compare two martial artists for example. Karate will teach you how to score alot of points, BUT there are rules. Ninjutsu, krav maga for example have no rules and as long as you know what you are doing, it is allowed. If these two persons were about to meet, who would win?

I would say the person who doesn't limit himself to using rules and doing stuff which is not allowed.

But what are these rules I talk about? Well, It's everything from not callign within 3 days, not giving a compliment when you meet a girl, well mostly everything which is taught here. Behavior is studied and labellad as either AFC or DJ, (thus limiting yourself to only do DJ stuff).

Let me introduce "Situation based DJing" (or living your ****ing life). Instead of labeling stuff as either AFC or DJ I'm gonna go ahead and look at the situations you are in. Something which is considered completly AFC might be PERFECT to use at another point. Showing alot of attention to a girl might be considrered wrong, but if you are in a relationship and the girl is completly depressed, then showing alot of attention could be good. Talking two hours to a girl might be very wrong, but if the girl are very into you and like talking with you and you are the same, then go ahead and talk those two hours.

It's not what you do what's important, the important thing is what you are! And to be a DJ IMHO is to strive to be happy and live a fulfilling life. You don't even have to be able to be good with women to do this. You don't have to be a super party guy who goes to twenty parties a week to be a DJ. If you build a good core of who you are then you can do whatever you like and still get girls. It doesn't matter if you go to lan five times a month or whatever.

Getting women is a biproduct of improving other areas of your life. If you go hardcore on:

* Interacting with people more in general
* Go to the gym/find a style you like
* Improve your economy
* Do alot of fun stuff you enjoy
* Try to fulfill some of those dreams


So in short, imagine you

drive this car
www.lambocars.com/archive/wallpaper/mur1280.jpg
Have a body like this (very achieveable)
http://www.vnn.vn/dataimages/original/images362184_Empire_BradPitt.jpg
and have an easy time talking to people. How could you go wrong?

Just from bulking up from being skinny I got 99% more attention from women. Now I don't really care about picking up or learning DJ skills. I just try to be myself and improve the things which I am not satisfied with. I'm the worst dancer in the world, I am lousy at saying the right stuff, but they want me anyway. The only difference from me before is some more social skills, a better body and don't letting fear keep me back.

In the end it comes down to learning tricks and following rules = effort. Or actually don't give a **** what people think and become what you want to be no matter what that goal is = fun
Lifeforce, excellent post - I have been preparing to write a similar one, and perhaps I still will, This is one of the most important things I have ever learned, and the way you put it was very enlightening, thank you.

To the negative responses: There are two general objections to the essence of this post ("just be yourself,") and they are both valid and important to deal with. First you have "I am being myself and I'm not getting any women," and second there is "yes but using techniques, as long as they are in harmony with your true self will amplify and improve your ability to attract."

The first happens when people don't realize believe something very important: "everybody instinctively knows how to DJ, how to attract women, how to approach, how to please women, how to have sex etc." It is when you are disconnected from your true self (often through a lack of confidence) that you lose your ability to be successful naturally. The solution for this problem is complicated - it takes self-exploration, meditation, building of confidence, transformation - essentially you must discover what the life of your dreams is, then build it. This is covered in other posts, as is lengthy discussion why most people aren't DJs if it is natural. In short, most people don't live the life of their dreams in general, especially with women.

For people with this objection, let me ask you this: "how can any woman make you happy if you're using techniques, methods and philosophies from a website?" Even if you get sex, and a gf, this will not make you happy for long. Ultimately, if you don't feel you are being your true self, you will feel unworthy of the girl. You will feel as though if you ever let your shields down, she will leave you. You would feel like a fraud, an imposter. That will make you miserable in a hurry, my friends! In order to be happy you have to trust who YOU are. It's that simple.

Second objection, "learning techniques helps you avoid pitfalls." This is true to a point. There are no rules of DJing - you just have to do what feels good to do deep down inside. It IS helpful to read other people's experience so you can better trust your own instincts. But ultimately, you must forget all rules - the only rule is listen to your gut and F*CKING trust it. Sometimes you are far better off doing "AFC behavior" than following some rule, no matter HOW FIELD TESTED. And when you are listening to your instincts believe me, you will avoid many true mistakes naturally. Most AFCs have disconnected from their instincts, or they deny their true selves trying to get women (exactly like people on sosuave who follow rules rather than being themselves). Other people's experience is like a treasure map to their personal destiny - the X does not mark the spot where you will find gold. Their treasure is not yours, their instincts are not yours.

I hope that covers the objections. Again, great post.

If I ever met a girl who it just felt RIGHT to give her flowers on the first date, or tell her that I loved her right away, I would do it. Your instincts are a far better guide than any rule you read on a website. Once you know your heart and your intuition, you don't need rules anymore.

Having said that, it necessary for newblars to read rules promising women and dignity in order to start them on the quest. Newbies just need to realize that the rules must eventually be discarded in favor of intuition.

Thanks Lifeforce,

--Izza
 

Create Reality

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Originally posted by Jariel
I always respect your posts Lifeforce and you raise some great points again.

Lifeforce: I just try to be myself and improve the things which I am not satisfied with.

Exactly! This is how I have been thinking for the past few months and life has been so much better because of it.
That's all there is to say, really.

Keep it real bro.
 

I_Only_Live_Once

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I agree with most of what the original poster said. This website sends the wrong kind of message. It says it's not a technique based website, yet 80% of the things you'll read in forums is: do this, don't do that, do this, don't do that; and it's all B.S.

Yes, there is valuable information on this website, but you've read it all in a couple weeks. Afterwards it just becomes redundant. You only need the gist of it, you don't need irrelevant new tidbits. This website has hit such a plateau in the learning curve that it's become more about the personalities behind the usernames than the actual information. It's more about who can show off and how great they think they are.

The only way to drive well is to go behind the wheel. Reading about how to drive is very limited in helping. It helps the person who's lost how to get back on the road, but it basically stops there. If you follow the teachings of this website, the amount of games you have to play will garner in mostly bimbos and girls you wouldn't really want to spend time with getting to know.
 

DJHoolahoop

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ok i have to laugh at this sort of thing. cuz let me get this straight, instead of using the great information there is here. People will squabble with one another over who is being too this and that when they should FOCUS ON THEIR F_CKING GAME!

My god, do you guys ever hear yourselves? I'll probably be put up to ridicule, but oh well whatever it takes to distract oneself from the real problems I guess.
:crackup: :crackup: :crackup:
 

griffon65

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Yes being yourself is the worst advice someone can give. I can give a hundred examples and reasons to support my argument but people have alreadly done that. But I dont think lifeforce was saying " just be yourself" he was saying "dont limit yourself." The martial arts example was not about a guy who trained in karate and followed the rules vs a guy who just fought with his natural skills. It was about a guy who trained in karate who followed the rules vs a guy who TRAINED (equivelent of knowing the right DJ techniques) in ninjitsu but did not limit himself with rules(does not limit himself to only those techniques).

Meaning you dont always have to have a witty statement when approaching a women. Sometimes "Hey whats up?" Followed by a "Whats ur name?" and My name is _____ its nice to meet you" will work perfectly, as long as you have a good conversation to back it up.

You dont always have to wait 3 days to call. It just depends on the situation. In some situations the DJ bible rules may be perfect to implement and in other situations its better to do something else. For example, it actually HURT my chances with a girl before when I followed the 3 day rule. But the I stoped limiting myself and just did what was right for the situation and since then when to call a girl has never posed a problem for me.
 

i am me

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Sosuave don't suck...but I agree with what you said because I try to live like that:D

Really, I don't want to be the "DJ that knows all the tricks and is ****y and funny to every attractive girl". I wanna be that guy who just lets things flow. I wanna enjoy my life and spending time with a girl is just something extra. True playas and pimps don't make a big deal outta women. A true playa to me is just someone who gets women (or one woman, depending on your preference) but who doesn't let it affect his inner self. Be true to yourself and good things will happen
 

cmk85

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I don’t think the website sucks. And I think this is an excellent discussion. I’ve been reading posts for quite a while. And I think some advice here is great and can really help people.

The people that come here and learn all the techniques to seduce girls and get result. Will eventually learn through experience in the field that it’s better to have a girl that loves you for who you are and knows the real you. Then a girl you just picked up with a standard DJ routine.

When you get to this point you’ve probably learned one of the most important lessons of your life. To be happy whit who you are. But you can’t learn that by just sitting around. And if a bible or boot camp can help you to get of your chair and into the field to experience new things. Then it does help.

If you read the boot camp and fitness journals. There are always people who give advice that isn’t right for the problem. But they can motivate or inspire a person to think for himself and make his own decision’s. And even if its right or wrong he will learn something that he probably wouldn’t learned if he hadn’t been reading al those posts.

I always thought fitness wasn’t right for me. But I’ve been reading the journals and seeing the results. And it motivated me to also start working out. Because of the website :-D

So keep asking question’s and post you experiences. So we can learn from it
 

Visceral

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RANTING

I did some thinking and I realized that this site does indeed have a problem.

It's a poser factory, the equivalent of teaching Globetrotter moves to a guy who doesn't know how to play basketball; he loves how big knowing the tricks makes him feel, but he wouldn't dare set foot on a court full of men who can actually play the game. And Professor Pook's Womanology course ... it might as well be taught in Medieval Latin, because most of the guys attending it haven't even taken Masculinity 101.

Masculinity 101 - before feminism, no man dared fail that class :trouble:

And so I came to the conclusion that Sosuave's message hasn't changed with it's audience. According to legend, the forum was founded by a group of DJs who, despite already being successful, happy, and getting laid regularly, came together to sharpen their skills even further. Unfortunately, one by one they were driven away by hordes of bleeding heart AFCs looking for salvation - but the institution hasn't picked up on this change in demographics. It still acts as though it were speaking to that same tightly knit group of masters, and continues to dispense increasingly esoteric wisdom wasted on the ignorant masses.

There are plenty of rants about the decline of masculinity in Western society, but Sosuave persistently ignores the implications of this phenomenon. Take special note of how the ranters refer to masculinity itself ... as opposed to the so-called "patriarchy" of our old privileges and obligations. We're not dealing with men who have been dethroned and disarmed, but with scared little boys who have no fvcking idea what masculinity and manhood are all about.

Pook has gained immortality by suggesting that we rely on our instinctual masculine nature instead of our brains and the techniques we cram into them, but it seems like no-one has followed through on what he started, especially since Pook was less than forthcoming when it came to process. After all, how can a guy with no relationship with his masculine nature make any use of it?

IMHO, Sosuave needs to teach Masculinity 101; it needs to teach the fundamentals of basketball. The noobs have to swallow their pride and the veterans need to move beyond their disgust and contempt.
 
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