Why sosuave sucks and why you should be yourself

[nishbuk]

I think alot of you guys are missing the point here.

The "rules" as we see them are set down for people who REALLY need help. Not as a handbook that every guy should pull out on his date so he doesn't make "a mistake". The truth of the matter is that these "mistakes" won't be relationship ending/changing mistakes. The thing that ends/changes the relationship will always be YOU (or her).

The actual POINT of this site is to BE YOURSELF. However, for some, they are not happy with who they are. So this site helps them to get out the door and CHANGE who they are into a better self. And then, when they are the man that they want to be, all they have to do is "Be themselves" and the women fall into place...

So yeah, In actuality, I think we are all really saying the same goddamn thing, but alot of us are too invested in this argument to realize it.

Be "yourself" is terrible advice for a total AFC.
Better advice would be, "MAKE YOURSELF BETTER".

Be "yourself" is GREAT advice for someone who is outgoing, challenging, interesting, and Funny.

 

[moyogi]

Seeing what is posted on this thread, I feel the need to inject this:
'We are what we think. With our thoughts we make the world.'
Now think about that. I mean really think about it. If you do what you always do, think the way you have always thought, you will be what you have always been. however, changing your thoughts is like putting a different number into an equation. You will geta completely different result. I've only been reading the forum for a few months, but I have used the tips here as motivation to go out there and get what I want out of my life - and that goes so much further than succeeding with women. A lot of guys who started here couldn't even talk to a woman on the street, and *through* what they have read here and applied to their lives, they are now more confident men in their personal and professional lives. If that is all this forum ever does for all of us, I think that'll be enough. Create your reality any way you like it, and if you get tired of it, try something else. Just my two cents.

 

[PeoplesChamp]

Not to get into a philosphical debate but in the words of the Green Goblin in Spiderman "We are who we choose to be." Of course I might be biased sense I am an existentialist to the core but we all have a choice in who we are. We also have a choice in whether we recognize our ability to choose. So this idea that by consciously choosing to change is not "being yourself" is absolutely crap. We are all human and we all are who we are. Besides the framework of being human, we can be anything we want. When you try something new or different from your previous patterns of behavior it feels arkward not because it is incongruent with some bs western construct titled "the self" but because it isn't famaliar. However over time, of course, this changes. It parallel to when anyone adopts a new social role.

Example: you have a kid. Prior to having a kid, you did not have one. Now you are a father. In order to incorporate that role into your psyche you must start ACTING like a father. Does this mean you aren't being yourself? Of course this very question seems absurd. but then why isn't this notion of "just be yourself" also viewed logically absurd. Think about it long and hard.

Life is about change. Everyone who is here, myself included, is here to improve with women. This purpose is based on the undeniable premise that we are/were not satisfied with how we handle women before. It's the a priori argument for the existent of this site.

So I say quit bumbling around with this western-individualism nonsense of "just be yourself" or "do your own thing." It sounds more like mindless consumer culture indoctrination than anything else.

 

[Lifeforce]

Bbstar... thank you, I think you are wrong too.

Tilltheendoftime: Yes you are being yourself (at least in my perspective of things). The self is under constant change as we learn and experience things in life. You were not the same now as you were when you were 5 for example. The point I wanted to address is all those fakers who change themselves around so much and becoming something they are not fit for just to get some action. All those people who say they are being themselves and not following rules who deep down doesn't even know they are following it. The rules have become a habit which they do not question.

So the point is to not give generalized version of what a DJ is. Noobs who come here will try to adapt alot of characteristics into themselves which honestly doesn't fit them at all. This is why "Don't be yourself" is no good IMO. It's just not the rules, it's the entire attitude here. No one want to be an outsider, so many will adapt the negative attitude which has spread alot here.

And BTW, I'm saying stuff about sosuave just to piss people off, because when they are pissed off people start to think.

Double: thanks for sticking up to me. No surprise we're thinking alike. Seems like you are the one who uncounciously kick me in the right direction all the time.

Don Juan Monk: Thanks man, you can get a signed photo of me if you like. I normally charge 10$ but you seem nice.

Royal elite: You are in no place to talk that kind of **** to me. Only reason you don't see any FRs from me is because I don't always feel to brag about what I've done. If you want to know at the moment I have a girl who is deeply in love with me, a FR from about two weeks ago I told about a girl I went home with, yesterday two girls picked me up on my way home telling me I was very good looking and asked if I wanted to come and party with them, today a girl called and was all interested in me because a friend of hers had told her about me. Next week a FB from a friends town is coming to my place. Another girl want to "get to know me better" at my old school which is too far away for me to bother. But I have no problem in this department.

il_duce: thanks mate.

"Hit it right on the nail with this. Thats exactly how I see things. Why should I break my neck for these *****es when the majority aint even worth half the effort? I love not following rules in general. And the rules of dating gets treated with contempt with me."

BlackJackal
Thanks man.. I completly agree, if they don't want you, just move on. It's more fun this way

Life-Trainee
Yes, we are basiclly talking about the same things, but the view of why people do things are different. Some people approach women just because people tell them to do this. Instead they could just as easily make some friends at a bar and meet chicks through them. Or you could bulk up, dance and meet women at the dance floor. I think what the bible and the boot camp lack is WHY you should do things. Understanding what you lack is the first step to doing some good changes. Making everyone look into peoples eyes for a week is not fit for everyone. And don't even get me started on LTRs. It's a fact that DJs burn them pretty easy.

johnny_dangerously
"Perhaps masters can transcend the need for rules & technique, but for the rest of us, to say that there is no "correct" or "incorrect" behavior, or that no method is "right" or "wrong" is irresponsible and incorrect."

Yes, there are incorrect behavior. Antisocial behavior which is not liked by everyone. This is well included in the social part of the development of a person. I think the most important part of changing is to understand the background of why the change is necessary. And most important is to do alot of work yourself.

HB_Hunter: Thanks man. Great you found a solution to the problem.

mrRuckus: Yes, you are a perfect example of what I mean. Listen to this. "Before i'd apologize when my real me slipped through and i said something off kilter and girls were taken aback. Now i realize i'm allowed to say whatever screwed up stuff i want without apology and girls love me for it." There you have it. Most people are afraid to letting that old personality get free reigns. That's why they are not being themselves. The fear hold them back.

God_of_getting_layed: Good post man. I completly agree with rewriting the DJ bible. There's alot of crap in it even though they helped alot of people in the past. I think the general knowledge is alot greater on these boards today. Sex appeal/status/appearence is so important... two guys can say the exact same things and get two different responses.

I remember once in a class. I was a geek, skinny, too big clothes, whatever.. I told a joke and not a soul laughed. Then a few days later a person told the exact same thing and the class erupted in laugther. The only differnece was his higher value. When you are high value, game becomes unneccesary, it's all aboyt having fun and doing what the **** you like.


I am sorry if I offended some people here... or actually, I am not. This posts was just to point out that you don't need a perfect game, you only need high value. You shouldn't try to be something you are not just to get a piece of ass. Doing a mistake when you meet a girl only effect it if the girl is indifferent to you. If the girl are into you then she'll often help you or smooth it over.

Maybe I should have said, become yourself instead of "be yourself". Either way, thank you for your replies, alot of great thoughts. I want to give a gold star to bbstar. That post really touched my core man.

 

[Gonzalo]

"Being yourself" could be viewed from a taoist prespective. How can an 18 yr old guy "be himself", if he hasn't had a good male role model in his immediate circle to show him the good traits to have when dealing with women? How can you "be yourself" when you and all of your friends are seriously convinced that buying flowers/stuff for women and supplicating to them is the way to land them? Are you being yourself if you just follow what the media has been bombarding into your head since you were a youngster?

SoSuave, on the other hand, taught me how to "forget" about this past mediatic confusion, and brought me to a more natural state. Those who don't feel they are putting on an act when they deliver a neghit or wait for a good time to call will know what I'm talking about. Thing is, in order for it to become natural, ie for you to be your non AFC/misguided-unnatural self, you gotta go through the motions.

You can't just tell a kid to be himself, what self? The self that watched the Bond movies, or the self that watched the Hugh Grant movies? It's all part of growing up as a person, part of maturing and discovering stuff for yourself at the end. So to those who say they are not putting an act on their everyday life, I congratulate. To those who feel they are tired of following rules, I wish good luck on their quest.

G

 

[Visceral]

From the Zen perspective, it's impossible not to be yourself. A man is just as much himself while being scared of women as he would be while having a 3-way.

Thinking that there is a self out there that you should be but are not being only occurs when you drag the ego - the mental construct - into the picture. This "true self" that you feel you should be, but are not, is just another mental construct, and actualizing it is really just substituting one ego-image for another.

The only real "true self" is whatever you are and happen to be doing at this particular moment. That's it.

It's entirely possible to change the ego; it's really just a matter of time and effort. As you do new things, your ego changes on its own to reflect these new things; that's when the fear and hesistation disappear. This is the process that most guys here go through: ramming the new patterns down the ego's throat.

However, actually getting rid of the ego and revealing the true "true self" is something else entirely.

 

[tobby]

I understand we have a DJ bible and all these techniques and suggestions for how to improve yourself, but it's like we're becoming trained dogs so that we can get women. Women don't do any of this **it and they still have their choice in men. It's like be yourself if you're not a guy! We accept women with all their flaws and stuff, but yet we won't accept ourselves unless we've gone through all these tricks and other BS.

 

[Visceral]

First of all, women are a hot commodity and they know it. No matter how bad a person a woman may be, as long as she's not ugly, she can still find at least one man desperate enough to enslave himself to her.

Secondly, the masculine nature is based on ambition and competition. Deep down, we don't like to be small, weak, and mediocre. We dream of being powerful and dangerous creatures that do as we please and everyone loves us for it. A man's desire to be the biggest, baddest motherfvcker out there is instinctive, a holdover from when a man had to be big and bad in order to keep himself, his woman, and his kids alive.

That being said, I understand where you're coming from. Self-improvement is a labor of love, and any man who doesn't love himself is incapable of doing anything to better himself and his life. Not only does he not value himself enough to view the substantial effort as worthwhile, but also his instinctive contempt for weakness backfires and turns into contempt for himself, justifying neglecting his needs and wants.

 

[tobby]

The fact that women are a hot commodity is 100% true and I do agree with you on that point. Some people look to improve themselves all the time in every area of life, but it's like with women you're going through a set routine, not really improving yourself, but regurgitating the same formula (workout, learn a few lines, and constantly go sarging). I do admit that does work to some extent, but it's not really improving yourself.

Most men improve themselves in things like sports by practing, disciplining themselves and working hard on the job to bemore more sucessful financially, or doing things like improving themselves mentally by reading, continuing their education, taking classes etc. So I really don't think this is an issue of loving yourself. I guess since logically this makes sense and since women don't follow logic so you're stuck doing the same old routines.

 

[nishbuk]

Most men improve themselves in things like sports by practing, disciplining themselves and working hard on the job to bemore more sucessful financially, or doing things like improving themselves mentally by reading, continuing their education, taking classes etc. So I really don't think this is an issue of loving yourself. I guess since logically this makes sense and since women don't follow logic so you're stuck doing the same old routines.

Ummm...That's kind the ENTIRE POINT of the site. Have you even read Anti-Dump's or Pook's posts in the bible? They are the foundation of the entire site, and improving yourself by being successful in your life is the first rule.

 

[Lifeforce]

Originally posted by nishbuk
Ummm...That's kind the ENTIRE POINT of the site. Have you even read Anti-Dump's or Pook's posts in the bible? They are the foundation of the entire site, and improving yourself by being successful in your life is the first rule.

Yeah it's true. But if you look at those old "must read" posts then you'll realize that they give a very generalized view of what a man is. The problem is that people tell others that they should be this and that. I see this as a problem since they will try to adapt to an ideal which they may not be ready for or even want to be.

IMO improving is all good as long as you know WHY you are doing something. The bootcamp is the most flawed thing I think because it is no way adapted to peoples situations. I think you need to know your problems before you actually can do something to change your life.

 

[coder]

The Door is That Way

To all of you who are saying this web site sucks, why are you still here then? If you don't like it, no one wants you to stay. Ba-Bye!

"Just Be Yourself" is stupid advice given by people who are not only stupid, but think they are smart. It's equivalent to this:

"I am doing this thing incorrectly and it isn't working. How should I do it differently so it will work?"

"Just be yourself. Keep doing exactly what you are doing."

Not only is it bad advice, but it make the person saying it feel like they have just given some divine wisdom to the poor recipient when they have given him NOTHING at all.

Most men have fallen into a trap because they don’t understand what they need to do to attract and keep women. They have been taught untruths by their mothers, movies, songs, books and every other thing in our culture. They try to apply these “truths” and they fail and they do not understand why. Then they try to ask why and you say, “Just be yourself.” That’s helpful, isn’t it? What they need and can get in the DJ Bible is the answer to the question they are asking.

Everyone who reads it will get different things out of it. Here is some of what I got in my own words.

Attraction is not logical. It is not triggered by the part of your brain that does logic. Millions of years of evolution (or is it intelligent design?) have determined what causes attraction. Attraction is different between men and women. Men are attracted totally by looks. If a woman is nice, smart, fun to be around, etc, but is ugly, men don’t want to sleep with her. It’s harsh. It’s not logical. It’s not fair, but it’s the truth. Women are attracted to alpha male behavior. Looks help. Money helps. But what really gets the girl is certain alpha male behaviors. The good thing is, you can change your behavior at will. You can’t choose your looks or your family, but your behavior is totally within your control. Again, this isn’t fair, but it’s the truth. We have a huge advantage over women. Women can’t change their looks very much, but we can change our behavior AT WILL.

Knowing this doesn’t help at all unless you know what behaviors will cause attraction in women. The bible answers that as well. Posture. Deep Strong Voice. Ending sentences like they are statement, not questions. Absolute refusal to be submissive to women. (Keep your personal power for yourself.) You can try to fake these things and trick women into sleeping with you and have some success with that or you can become a real alpha male and the behaviors will be automatic. I would say fake it until you feel it. All the tests women give you are an attempt to find out if you are a real alpha male or a faker. Become an alpha male and you will never fail a test.

But what is an alpha male? I would say an alpha male is a man who is in control of himself and therefore his world. The alpha male decides what he wants, figures out what he needs to do to get it, and then gets it. He lets no one stop him from achieving his goal. If a partner in the endeavor fails or gives up, that partner is replaced. If his woman gets in his way, she’s out the door. If he has to acquire new skills to accomplish the goal, he knows he can acquire them. Become this type of person, and you will get women as a by-product. This is the kind of person they are hard wired to want to make babies with because this man has the skills to survive.

If all that is just too much for you, you can just fake it and still have success with women, just not as easily as the real alpha. The faker is what people call “players” or “playas”.

What I see in most of the threads here is “I’m behaving like an Omega male (opposite of alpha) and my girl is repelled from me. What should I do?” And regrettably, much of the advice given is “Keep being an Omega and she will want you back.” Guess what. It aint gonna work. What this guy needs to understand is the things I said above. “Just be yourself” doesn’t cover it. It is easy to type, though.

 

[nishbuk]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
Yeah it's true. But if you look at those old "must read" posts then you'll realize that they give a very generalized view of what a man is. The problem is that people tell others that they should be this and that. I see this as a problem since they will try to adapt to an ideal which they may not be ready for or even want to be.

IMO improving is all good as long as you know WHY you are doing something. The bootcamp is the most flawed thing I think because it is no way adapted to peoples situations. I think you need to know your problems before you actually can do something to change your life.

Maybe it's just because I'm more perceptive than most, or because I'm extremely good at learning new skills, or have a mature world-view, but I have to disagree with you about the bootcamp.

Perhaps the bootcamp should be prefaced with a section about living your own life, or rather, it should be integrated into the program somehow. For myself at least, my personal life goals, and my accomplishments are many. I've done a hell of a lot with myself, and I don't think I'm being arrogant when I say I've obtained QUITE an impressive skill set in many different areas through my life. For a 22 year old kid, I've accomplished quite a lot.

When I do bootcamp, for me, it is inherently understood, that it won't impinge on my life goals, and my personal goals. This has always been the case with me. School, fighting, volunteer and music first. Then women.

Currently I view "picking up women" as another skill I want to master to add to my arsenal. That is why bootcamp works for me.

Perhaps other people who do the bootcamp need to be coming from a different angle than the one they are coming from. I will give you the point, that there a people who do bootcamp for entirely the wrong reasons. Those are the people who have not set down and worked toward specific life goals, or those people who have not "made themselves better people" first.

 

[coldcoal]

Here's the thing: A lot of these 'rules' are known by more women than men, beause most women (esp. attractive ones) are subject to having these 'tactics' used on them more often and earlier in life then men will understand & apply them.

"Wait 3 days to call because it will ease the impression that you are desperate", is usually written for desperate men and has very little if anything to do with a woman. A woman with a high IL doesn't care, and timing makes no difference to women with low IL. The only purpose is to get over desperation. If you've already done that, then you don't have to stick to that exact rule. Sticking to rules too literally beyond their usefulness starts to leave an impression of playing a game.

In essence, most of these rules cure bad habits and choices and no longer need to be followed to perfection once better habits are had. And this is a point where you can deviate, alter and break them to your suiting.

This is the sort of "being yourself" I think you have in mind and I think it should be described as 'being your sucessful self'. The other kind of 'be yourself' is an excuse for people in denial to justify their own faults.

2 cents

 

[FOL!!!]

Originally posted by Lifeforce
The bootcamp is the most flawed thing I think because it is no way adapted to peoples situations.

Bull ****. Most people that follow the BC have some kind of social anxiety, either for all kind of strangers or just woman or a number close. Exactly what bootcamp is for. HOW you achieve it exactly (ie, what you have to say and stuff) is not described in detail. Why not? Because you have to fill that up with topics which are related to you (see, it adapts to you anyway).

 

[Double]

BULL****!!!!! HOW DOES TALKING TO STRANGER HELP YOU SOLVING YOUR INNER PROBLEMS WITH YOURSELF???? IT MAKES YOU LOOK CONFIDENT ON THE OUTSIDE BUT DEEP INSIDE YOU WILL STILL FEEL ANXIOUS AND SOCIAL PHOBIC!!!

for the people who dont have deep inner problems because of past experiences , go do your bootcamp and stop thinking everybody has the same background/problems.

 

[frivolousz21]

the bootcamp is very good for building confidence for picking up chicks...
but wont fix emotional problems.


I did one and quit at week 6.....that was a yr ago.

 

[FOL!!!]

Originally posted by Double
BULL****!!!!! HOW DOES TALKING TO STRANGER HELP YOU SOLVING YOUR INNER PROBLEMS WITH YOURSELF???? IT MAKES YOU LOOK CONFIDENT ON THE OUTSIDE BUT DEEP INSIDE YOU WILL STILL FEEL ANXIOUS AND SOCIAL PHOBIC!!!

for the people who dont have deep inner problems because of past experiences , go do your bootcamp and stop thinking everybody has the same background/problems.

Sucker, the capslock is on the left side of your keyboard. Make sure it isn't enabled when you start your post.

By talking to strangers you get the confidence, which is a boost for yourself. So it hits you inside.... How fvcking hard is it to understand that? You are confident from the outside and you get relaxed from the inside.... It goes hand in hand most of the time and for most of the people. Not everyone has the same problems, BUT MANY DO I think...just like you might think different. (I found the capslock, great).

 

[nishbuk]

Originally Posted by Double
BULL****!!!!! HOW DOES TALKING TO STRANGER HELP YOU SOLVING YOUR INNER PROBLEMS WITH YOURSELF???? IT MAKES YOU LOOK CONFIDENT ON THE OUTSIDE BUT DEEP INSIDE YOU WILL STILL FEEL ANXIOUS AND SOCIAL PHOBIC!!!

Nope.
This is classic mistake form one who hasn't understood the more advanced aspects of the dynamics of change, and creation of personal reality/viewpoint. Changing self is a deep and far ranging subject.

It is a HUGE fallacy that states that "in order to act a certain way I have to FEEL that way first, there is no other way".

This mentality does work in alot of situations, and, it's usually the fastest way to change an aspect of yourself, PROVIDED you know how to change your thought process first. Most people have no clue how to do this by changing their inner game, or inner mentality. Most people haven't discovered enough about the world, or their innerselve to beable to do that. It's the mentality that is "mindset before action creates my reality".
This is however, a perfectly valid way to go about changing something about yourself, BUT it is not the ONLY way. And in fact, it is not the most efficient way for the classic type of people that this site is trying to help.
This method is "MINDSET --> ACTION --> BEING"

However, it is also true that "action can create mindset"
If you wish to THINK or BE a certain way, then ACTING that way can lead you toward actually being that.
Action can also help you to create a mindset. That is, "ACTION --> MINDSET --> BEING"

It is this mechanism that the bootcamp functions on. And the reason it works so well, is because the bootcamp targets people who have a very hard time changing their mindset, don't know the methods and mechanisms to do so, are not in tune with themselves to beable to change inner game with just thought, or lack the fortitude to believe that it's even possible to change their thoughts!
For people such as this (generally low-confidence, low-self worth, little life direction),
The "ACTION --> MINDSET --> BEING" method works best.

Guy with weak game, sucks at approaching or making eye contact with anyone.
He forces himself to do it repeatedly, and is very nervous when doing this, and feels complete akward when he starts out.
But eventually he realizes that he is actually BEING and DOING the exact same thing as someone who IS confident, and so he becomes that. His mindset has changed.

That is why the bootcamp works. It is still an incredibly useful tool for people to change themselves, however it probably can't help someone deal with very deep seated problems.

 

[Visceral]

A man who can and does take action has a lot less wrong with him than he or we might think. The things he does may be completely off, but everything is still fully functional. This is the kind of guy that just needs to learn the proper techniques and apply them, which he no doubt will.

It's the man who doesn't take action that presents the greater problem. His head is crammed full of solid knowledge from months of reading and posting, but absolutely nothing has changed inside him, and his life is the same miserable routine it's always been.

The fact that you can not only show him Heaven but the many paths that lead to it and he is still unmoved says that there's something big and deep wrong with him.

Perhaps action and mindset are part of a feedback loop, not only creating each other but requiring each other to exist ... the inactive man is inactive because he lacks the proper mindset, and he lacks the proper mindset because he takes no action - the "Pvssy Paradox".