Why So Many Young Men Are Single and Sexless

[SW15]

He doesn't have big muscles. At 6'4" with 17" arms, that's not big... @BackInTheGame78 is that big?

According to this, 17" arms are big...

Average Biceps Size: Building 15, 16, 17, 18, 19 Inch Arms

Have you ever wondered how you measure up to the average size of biceps? Well, you came to the right place; in this post, we cover the anatomy of the biceps, average size, and tips on how to build those 15-19 inch arms you've working towards.

www.setforset.com

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[Bokanovsky]

Article:

- Relationship trends are jeopardizing intimacy skills
- Men must prioritize real-life relationships, attuned to the shift in priorities women have already made.
- Men could have increased their relationship skills to close the effort gap during the pandemic
- Men could have confronted their relative avoidance and challenged the gender norms that made them so anxious about intimacy
- Between an energy-intensive, highly competitive dating environment & the low-effort rewards of porn, men appear to be taking the path of least resistance.
- Men can choose to focus on developing the necessary relationship skills to be more successful in dating

Why So Many Young Males Are Single and Sexless

Young men have never been more single and sexless in recorded history. Learn what's contributing to this trend and what's necessary to change it.

www.psychologytoday.com

My Thoughts:

If women were virgins before marriage, divorce was shameful, and women were not allowed to cash out, men’s relationship skills would improve instinctively.

Thoughts?

The article is basically camouflaged advertising for individual therapy (scroll to the end). And of course it’s published by Psychology Today. Their solution to everything is therapy.

It’s fvcking disgusting how many grifters are trying to make a buck by convincing men that they are somehow to blame for the sorry state of the dating market. PUA’s, dating coaches, relationship gurus, psychologists…same sh!t, different pile. “Skills deficit” my ass. What are modern women skilled at, exactly? Posting shots of your tits and ass on Instagram is not exactly a crucial life skill.

 

[sangheilios]

And here is the other reason..guys crying about how the odds are stacked against them and every other excuse they can find.

Poor mindsets leads to poor results. In every area of life not just with women.

You aren't looking at this with the correct light.

Let's take that stat of 2/3 of men being single vs. 1/3 of women being single at face value. This implies that there are many women that are actively sharing another man. This also implies that only 1/3 of women are actually available and will be actively pursued by 2/3 of men. IF these women were to develop monogamous type relationships, and not fall into the other category of sharing men, that leaves 1/3 of men completely without any prospects what so ever. Do you not understand the ramifications something like this would have on the broader dating market and society as a whole?

Here is some further insight into the women sharing men. I can personally cite an example of a man I knew that had an actual gf/relationship and also had a side piece at the same time. He had 0 interest in this woman other than sex but she aggressively pursued him, it was almost to the point where she behaved like a stalker lol. If you had surveyed this woman for that study I guarantee you that she would have considered herself as not single, in a relationship, etc. The majority of women don't fall into this category but stuff like this is far more common for young adults than I think many realize. This woman effectively took herself off of the market, which means there is one less female available for single men out there. This ties in with the tinder stuff, where a small percentage of men in a given area are having multiple sexual partners in a given time period, while also leaving a large number of men without.

Here are some of the issues with what I am discussing here. You are going to have a large number of women that were pumped and dumped, "alpha widowed" or any of these other terms you want to use. These women are often going to develop some issues with pair bonding and may struggle to develop and maintain more normal monogamous relationships, particularly marriage. A really good example to look at is that show Sex and the City, look at how those women behaved when they were well into their 30s and 40s and up......then look at what their lives looked like. All of them but one ended up childless and constantly bouncing from one failed relationship to the next. There is a reason why this show was so popular, and that's because MANY women could relate to one or more of the main characters. Each of the 4 main female characters in that show represented various sub categories that women can fall into.

1. Carrie, the main character, was basically the hopeless romantic that chased after an unavailable man and repetitively sabotaged potential relationships with men that were actually interested in her.

2. Samantha, the ***** that slept with just about any man and was proud of who and what she was and wasn't afraid of the world knowing.

3. Miranda, the career focused "boss *****" that often found herself in relationships with weak and "beta" men.

4. Charlotte, the good conservative girl that actually ended up getting married. The show portrayed her as sexually frustrated, as her husband had sexual performance issues. I find the portrayal of her interesting because it is programming women to NOT want to be like Charlotte.

Something else to consider is that when so few women are available on the dating market it results in "hoeflation". I made a thread about this a few weeks ago, but the idea is that if only 1/3 of women are available for 2/3 of men that are single that creates a huge problem. The women are in a predicament, if we can even call it that, where they have far more options available to them, so the response is to become INCREASINGLY more selective and picky compared to a more normal and balanced dating market. This in turn results in their expectations being much higher and more and more men struggling and becoming frustrated in the dating market. The next thing that happens is the men become INCREASINGLY desperate or perhaps just check out all together. You can't go around telling these men they need to work on self improvement because it's going to take a lot of work, in fact it may not even be possible to ever stand out. If a man has to be 6'+, very athletic, a top 5% earner and living some baller lifestyle how many do you think can match these criteria? The thing is, men need to be on their game for women that quite honestly don't have all that much going for them.

You are also finding that there are many relatively young women that are already single mothers. This again means that there are fewer single and now childless women available. Most men truly do not want to date a single mother, it goes against many biological programming principles, but will do so simply because they have no other choice.

To sum up what I'm saying, there are some very serious issues with the dating market as I'm typing this. No male in history has ever experienced a dating market like this and there are going to be some very serious consequences of what we are seeing now in the decades to come.

 

[sangheilios]

Unless you’re living in Qatar or the UAE, gender ratios are pretty much 50/50 nowadays - the one exception is probably Crimea nowadays.

Given the ratios are even and we assume women are in fact having sex, and 1/3rd of males are incels (per stats) it means they are sharing males. That or they’re just not having sex.

Another really good example to look at is China. With the one child policy, there were tons of females being aborted in favor of males, which resulted in a pretty significant gender gap. I watched a mini documentary about it and it discussed how there were millions of single men in rural China that were struggling to find a potential wife. They then talked about how the parents would try to set up their son for success by helping him get a nice house to live in, basically to be seen as a good potential suitor.

 

[sangheilios]

The article is basically camouflaged advertising for individual therapy (scroll to the end). And of course it’s published by Psychology Today. Their solution to everything is therapy.

It’s fvcking disgusting how many grifters are trying to make a buck by convincing men that they are somehow to blame for the sorry state of the dating market. PUA’s, dating coaches, relationship gurus, psychologists…same sh!t, different pile. “Skills deficit” my ass. What are modern women skilled at, exactly? Posting shots of your tits and ass on Instagram is not exactly a crucial life skill.

In some instances there definitely is something going on with the male in question, there's no denying that. However, when you have large swaths of the young male population that are legitimately sexless and struggling to even get a single date you know there is something wrong on a societal level. It's a complex and multivariable issue, but social media and dating apps are clearly the biggest variables at play and it's quite obvious that this is the case.

This is an issue that men of older generations do not quite grasp because they never experienced a world like this. This is an issue that is unique to younger millennials and gen zs. If you were born in 1980 you would have been in your mid to late twenties before social media really took off, which was in 2008 with Facebook. You would have been in your mid thirties by the time tinder came onto the scene, by this age it's incredibly likely you were already married, possibly with kids even, or at the very least in a serious relationship already.

 

[AttackFormation]

In some instances there definitely is something going on with the male in question, there's no denying that. However, when you have large swaths of the young male population that are legitimately sexless and struggling to even get a single date you know there is something wrong on a societal level. It's a complex and multivariable issue, but social media and dating apps are clearly the biggest variables at play and it's quite obvious that this is the case.

This is an issue that men of older generations do not quite grasp because they never experienced a world like this. This is an issue that is unique to younger millennials and gen zs. If you were born in 1980 you would have been in your mid to late twenties before social media really took off, which was in 2008 with Facebook. You would have been in your mid thirties by the time tinder came onto the scene, by this age it's incredibly likely you were already married, possibly with kids even, or at the very least in a serious relationship already.

There is no issue, we are simply trending toward the sexual model that reflects what women as a whole want when they feel empowered to choose without restraint, which is polygyny. That's not because of dating apps, antisocial media or anything else like that... it's because women have attained the social, medical and economical freedoms that theyve either been unable to have, or men have prevented them from having, in the past. You have to track the rights that women have achieved over the 20th century, not the advent of antisocial media and dating apps haha.

So except for sentiments that make them get into relationships with those leftover men anyway, like wanting to roleplay having a family, or be presentable, or feel "secure" because they have a man, or because of trauma, or wanting to stop being a single mom, etcetra... they have no need to romantically deal with leftover men anymore. That's the future.

 

[sangheilios]

There is no issue, we are simply going toward the relationship model that reflects what women as a whole want when they feel empowered to choose, which is polygyny. That's not because of dating apps, antisocial media or anything else like that... it's because women have attained the social and economical freedoms that theyve either been unable to have, or men have prevented them from having, in the past. You have to track the equal rights that women have achieved over the 20th century, not the advent of antisocial media and dating apps haha.

So except for irrational feelings that make them get into relationships with those leftover men anyway, like wanting to roleplay having a family, or be presentable, or feel secure because they have a man, or because of trauma, etcetra... they have no need to romantically deal with leftover men anymore. That's the future.

You don't understand the issue.

Most women ideally want to form a long term relationship with a man that they are attracted to that actually loves them, can potentially provide her with a family and help raise them, etc. Polygamist societies that still exist today have one thing in common, and that is they are very conservative and where women have little to no rights. Traditionally, arranged marriages were the norm and the young females were setup with a man often not of her choosing. The idea of marrying for love is more of a western and more modern phenomenon.

You can ask most women and they really wouldn't be comfortable being in a serious relationship with a man who had other women at the same time. The one exception I can think of is with black America, but that's a very different game because it's normal for them to be pumped and dumped by multiple men, have more than one "baby daddy", etc.

The leftover men are not necessarily low quality, like some of the posters on here seem to think. This could be due to a large variety of reasons but a lot of it is just having bad luck and not having things line up. When you've been talking with some girl from Tinder and you finally meet up for a date, you have to remind yourself that she was also entertaining a dozen other guys for potential dates next week. This woman may have liked you, but Rick is into motorcycles and she's always wanted to try it out. This is the reality of dating apps and what men are going to face.

The end result though is that many of these women honestly end up lost due to the sheer abundance they have. If they go through enough men their expectations are completely warped and possibly to the point where they may be completely incapable of ever developing a normal relationship with a man. Women often are not happy either with the dating market, though it's within a completely different reality than that of men.

We are going to see a high prevalence of single mothers and children born without father figures. A big part of this is the government aids in this endeavor, with it's end goal being the destruction of the family unit.......which it has done quite well with black America. I partially question if dating apps were intentionally designed to ruin the dating market to the point where so many men are being left completely without. Aside from the destruction of the family unit, as I mentioned previously, this would also be a fantastic means of lowering the population. I believe that what we are seeing in the current dating market is the early stages of a population collapse in America, whether or not this was some part of a master plan though I cannot say.

 

[AttackFormation]

You don't understand the issue.

Most women ideally want to form a long term relationship with a man that they are attracted to that actually loves them, can potentially provide her with a family and help raise them, etc. Polygamist societies that still exist today have one thing in common, and that is they are very conservative and where women have little to no rights. Traditionally, arranged marriages were the norm and the young females were setup with a man often not of her choosing. The idea of marrying for love is more of a western and more modern phenomenon.

You can ask most women and they really wouldn't be comfortable being in a serious relationship with a man who had other women at the same time. The one exception I can think of is with black America, but that's a very different game because it's normal for them to be pumped and dumped by multiple men, have more than one "baby daddy", etc.

The leftover men are not necessarily low quality, like some of the posters on here seem to think. This could be due to a large variety of reasons but a lot of it is just having bad luck and not having things line up. When you've been talking with some girl from Tinder and you finally meet up for a date, you have to remind yourself that she was also entertaining a dozen other guys for potential dates next week. This woman may have liked you, but Rick is into motorcycles and she's always wanted to try it out. This is the reality of dating apps and what men are going to face.

The end result though is that many of these women honestly end up lost due to the sheer abundance they have. If they go through enough men their expectations are completely warped and possibly to the point where they may be completely incapable of ever developing a normal relationship with a man.

We are going to see a high prevalence of single mothers and children born without father figures. A big part of this is the government aids in this endeavor, with it's end goal being the destruction of the family unit.......which it has done quite well with black America. I partially question if dating apps were intentionally designed to ruin the dating market to the point where so many men are being left completely without. Aside from the destruction of the family unit, as I mentioned previously, this would also be a fantastic means of lowering the population. I believe that what we are seeing in the current dating market is the early stages of a population collapse in America, whether or not this was some part of a master plan though I cannot say.

In a perfect world people may want this and wish for that... but when they have to make choices in the real world, what do they choose? The answer is the reason why this thread exists.

Whether the men consider themselves low quality or not isnt really relevant, if women dont want to fvck them then that's that.

Have you seen this documentary?
1986 SPECIAL REPORT:"THE VANISHING BLACK FAMILY" - YouTube

Bring on whatever collapse is coming.

 

[sangheilios]

In a perfect world people may want this and wish for that... but when they have to make choices in the real world, what do they choose? The answer is the reason why this thread exists.

Whether the men consider themselves low quality or not isnt really relevant, if women dont want to fvck them then that's that.

Have you seen this documentary?
1986 SPECIAL REPORT:"THE VANISHING BLACK FAMILY" - YouTube

Bring on whatever collapse is coming.

I haven't seen that documentary but it's obviously going to discuss what I'm talking about here. Black America is beyond ****ed up and I believe it was done on purpose, interestingly enough the democrats, a party founded by the slave owners of the 19th century, are the party that still uses them as political tools lol.

Women often choose the wrong men, which is a reason why arranged marriages and needing the approval of their own family was a norm. Many of these women did not necessarily choose to be single mothers or this or that, **** just happened to them. These men that these dumb hoes go for are often not even "Chads" like the black pill talks about lol. I've seen some of these guys that are complete ****ing losers, short, not in shape, etc.

I find this interesting to discuss but I also want to remind young men that may be struggling that it's often not really their fault and that they are just living in a bad time period. I'm not sure how old you are, but I know I am going to see a lot of changes in my lifetime and it's crazy to think where things are heading. A big part of why countries like Japan and China are investing so heavily into AI and robotics is because they are beginning to see an actual population collapse. They literally will not have enough working age humans to be able to fill in roles that are essential for society to function, so they turn to this new field to fill in the gap. You will see this in the decades to come.

 

[SW15]

A really good example to look at is that show Sex and the City, look at how those women behaved when they were well into their 30s and 40s and up......then look at what their lives looked like. All of them but one ended up childless and constantly bouncing from one failed relationship to the next. There is a reason why this show was so popular, and that's because MANY women could relate to one or more of the main characters. Each of the 4 main female characters in that show represented various sub categories that women can fall into.

1. Carrie, the main character, was basically the hopeless romantic that chased after an unavailable man and repetitively sabotaged potential relationships with men that were actually interested in her.

2. Samantha, the ***** that slept with just about any man and was proud of who and what she was and wasn't afraid of the world knowing.

3. Miranda, the career focused "boss *****" that often found herself in relationships with weak and "beta" men.

4. Charlotte, the good conservative girl that actually ended up getting married. The show portrayed her as sexually frustrated, as her husband had sexual performance issues. I find the portrayal of her interesting because it is programming women to NOT want to be like Charlotte.

Good analysis of Sex and the City.

Sex and the City glorified female notch counts like no other show before it. The article below lists the 1998-2004 notch counts of the 4 main characters

In ‘Sex and the City,’ number of sex partners true to New York life

Before Carrie puts on her Vivienne Westwood wedding dress in the new “Sex and the City: the Movie”; before Charlotte became a mom at the end of the TV series; before Smith and Harry, St…

www.nydailynews.com

Samantha: 42
Carrie: 18
Charlotte: 18 (notable because she was supposed to be the most prudish and traditional of the women)
Miranda 17

When the show started in 1998, those characters were all 33+ women. In 1998, all those women would have had notch counts of least 15 at the time of Episode 1.

Keep in mind this show aired from 1998-2004. Women under 30 today were too young to have watched it when it originally aired. Women my age and 2-3 years younger barely watched it when it originally aired, but might have caught it on DVDs soon after it finished airing but before streaming services became big.

In this thread, a woman born in February 1982 mentioned how she was influenced to live in NYC and live like the 'Sex and the City' women and 'Friends' women.

The Modern Middle Aged Woman: High Notch Count, Big White Collar Career, Lives for Herself

https://www.today.com/life/essay-life/wrong-relationships-future-worth-rcna67037 This is a story of a woman who is in her early 40s now. She's an early Millennial. She claimed to be 40 last year and turning 41 in February according to a post on LinkedIn today. That means she was born in...

www.sosuave.net

I think Miranda had kids naturally in the show (in real life, Cynthia Nixon came out as a lesbian around 2004) but Charlotte had to adopt a child to have children.

Something else to consider is that when so few women are available on the dating market it results in "hoeflation". I made a thread about this a few weeks ago, but the idea is that if only 1/3 of women are available for 2/3 of men that are single that creates a huge problem. The women are in a predicament, if we can even call it that, where they have far more options available to them, so the response is to become INCREASINGLY more selective and picky compared to a more normal and balanced dating market. This in turn results in their expectations being much higher and more and more men struggling and becoming frustrated in the dating market. The next thing that happens is the men become INCREASINGLY desperate or perhaps just check out all together. You can't go around telling these men they need to work on self improvement because it's going to take a lot of work, in fact it may not even be possible to ever stand out. If a man has to be 6'+, very athletic, a top 5% earner and living some baller lifestyle how many do you think can match these criteria? The thing is, men need to be on their game for women that quite honestly don't have all that much going for them.

As a 40 year old male, I've never known a dating market where women were not incredibly selective. The crazy thing is that I'm a middle aged guy who has been participating in the sexual marketplace for nearly 25 years. I was born in the early part of the Millennial generation.

A typical man (not a 'Chad') who is 25 now has had an even worse experience in general than I have.

Millennials like myself were part of the early wave of all of the bad trends in the mating marketplace that you discuss.

It's quite difficult to self-improve to get to be 6'0"+, very athletic, and a Top 5% earner. The height aspect is uncontrollable. There are guys with respectable physiques who are generally invisible to women because they are not 6'0"+ with big muscles.

there are some very serious issues with the dating market as I'm typing this. No male in history has ever experienced a dating market like this and there are going to be some very serious consequences of what we are seeing now in the decades to come.

I agree.

You are also finding that there are many relatively young women that are already single mothers. This again means that there are fewer single and now childless women available. Most men truly do not want to date a single mother, it goes against many biological programming principles, but will do so simply because they have no other choice.

Single motherhood at certain ages is tied to educational attainment levels.

Women who do not earn bachelor's degrees tend to get married earlier in life and/or have children earlier in life. These are the women most likely to become single moms, either from having kids out of wedlock and those relationships eventually fail or getting married under age 25, having a kid, and then having a divorce before 30-32.

When women get bachelor's degrees, marriage and children look different. Women with bachelor's degrees typically don't get married until their late 20s and then have their first kid after their 30th birthday. Eventually, a good portion of these women will be single moms, but this will happen closer to when they turn 40.

Plenty of men are committing to relationships with single moms. There are single dads who do this but even some childless men are desperate enough to get into committed relationships with single moms.

In my dating life, I have had to be particular since I turned 35 to avoid committed relationships with single moms. This has narrowed my dating pool.

 

[SW15]

The leftover men are not necessarily low quality, like some of the posters on here seem to think. This could be due to a large variety of reasons but a lot of it is just having bad luck and not having things line up. When you've been talking with some girl from Tinder and you finally meet up for a date, you have to remind yourself that she was also entertaining a dozen other guys for potential dates next week. This woman may have liked you, but Rick is into motorcycles and she's always wanted to try it out. This is the reality of dating apps and what men are going to face.

I find this interesting to discuss but I also want to remind young men that may be struggling that it's often not really their fault and that they are just living in a bad time period.

There are so many leftover men now that it is impossible for all leftover men to be low quality. It is true that there are obese neckbeards and porn addicts among the leftover men, but there are plenty of decent men out there who are leftovers.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire.

If women are overlooking men with a $75k-$125k salary, who are relatively in shape, who drive a good car, and who have a few hobbies, that's a sign of an unhealthy market. A $75k-$125k salary is an above average salary.

There isn't much of a market for the $75,000-$125,000 salary guy who is relatively in shape but not 6'0"+ and fit. That's even more true if he's 35-44. If a guy gets into that salary range at 25-29, he has a better chance.

While a $75,000 - $125,000 salary is a good salary in most US markets, it's not enough to impress women. Most women with a bachelor's degree or higher are getting into this range when they are 30+ and a man in his 30s in that range isn't exciting. $115,000 as a 29 year old could impress a 21-24 year old if he's willing to spend a lot on her, but even she could find more $$.

The end result though is that many of these women honestly end up lost due to the sheer abundance they have. If they go through enough men their expectations are completely warped and possibly to the point where they may be completely incapable of ever developing a normal relationship with a man. Women often are not happy either with the dating market, though it's within a completely different reality than that of men.

A lot of women end up wasting their prime years with their absolute abundance. Even post age 30 or 35, women still have massive abundance. Dating websites and the swipe apps changed this. If a 33 year old woman found herself childless and single in 1990, she would have go to out to bars and events most nights to find some dates. 2010-present, if a 33 year woman found herself childless and single, she could use a dating website (early 2010s) or swipe app (2012-13 to present) and have hundreds of options. She would have the abundance that her 1990 equivalent could not have imagined. The 1990, 33 year old woman had to work ~3x more for a fraction of a dates of the more contemporary 33 year old woman.

A man at his theoretical SMV peak (35-40 years old) has fewer options due to swipe apps and social media DMs than a similarly aged woman who is around 7-10 years post peak.

Female abundance is distorting the market tremendously.

 

[corrector]

There are so many leftover men now that it is impossible for all leftover men to be low quality. It is true that there are obese neckbeards and porn addicts among the leftover men, but there are plenty of decent men out there who are leftovers.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

If women are overlooking men with a $75k-$125k salary, who are relatively in shape, who drive a good car, and who have a few hobbies, that's a sign of an unhealthy market. A $75k-$125k salary is an above average salary.

There isn't much of a market for the $75,000-$125,000 salary guy who is relatively in shape but not 6'0"+ and fit. That's even more true if he's 35-44. If a guy gets into that salary range at 25-29, he has a better chance.

While a $75,000 - $125,000 salary is a good salary in most US markets, it's not enough to impress women. Most women with a bachelor's degree or higher are getting into this range when they are 30+ and a man in his 30s in that range isn't exciting. $115,000 as a 29 year old could impress a 21-24 year old if he's willing to spend a lot on her, but even she could find more $$.



A lot of women end up wasting their prime years with their absolute abundance. Even post age 30 or 35, women still have massive abundance. Dating websites and the swipe apps changed this. If a 33 year old woman found herself childless and single in 1990, she would have go to out to bars and events most nights to find some dates. 2010-present, if a 33 year woman found herself childless and single, she could use a dating website (early 2010s) or swipe app (2012-13 to present) and have hundreds of options. She would have the abundance that her 1990 equivalent could not have imagined. The 1990, 33 year old woman had to work ~3x more for a fraction of a dates of the more contemporary 33 year old woman.

A man at his theoretical SMV peak (35-40 years old) has fewer options due to swipe apps and social media DMs than a similarly aged woman who is around 7-10 years post peak.

Female abundance is distorting the market tremendously.

Its a good enough salary to be a passport bro, in fact its a great salary. Also this does not account for the chadlite/chad posters on here who are doing well in swipe apps. Its curious about why chad/chadlites need this site if they too have hyper abundance with apps unless they are all thrill of the hunt types and think swipe apps are too boring or cry if they get shadowbanned or if they lose their edge?

 

[sangheilios]

Good analysis of Sex and the City.

Sex and the City glorified female notch counts like no other show before it. The article below lists the 1998-2004 notch counts of the 4 main characters

In ‘Sex and the City,’ number of sex partners true to New York life

Before Carrie puts on her Vivienne Westwood wedding dress in the new “Sex and the City: the Movie”; before Charlotte became a mom at the end of the TV series; before Smith and Harry, St…

www.nydailynews.com

Samantha: 42
Carrie: 18
Charlotte: 18 (notable because she was supposed to be the most prudish and traditional of the women)
Miranda 17

When the show started in 1998, those characters were all 33+ women. In 1998, all those women would have had notch counts of least 15 at the time of Episode 1.

Keep in mind this show aired from 1998-2004. Women under 30 today were too young to have watched it when it originally aired. Women my age and 2-3 years younger barely watched it when it originally aired, but might have caught it on DVDs soon after it finished airing but before streaming services became big.

In this thread, a woman born in February 1982 mentioned how she was influenced to live in NYC and live like the 'Sex and the City' women and 'Friends' women.

The Modern Middle Aged Woman: High Notch Count, Big White Collar Career, Lives for Herself

https://www.today.com/life/essay-life/wrong-relationships-future-worth-rcna67037 This is a story of a woman who is in her early 40s now. She's an early Millennial. She claimed to be 40 last year and turning 41 in February according to a post on LinkedIn today. That means she was born in...

www.sosuave.net

I think Miranda had kids naturally in the show (in real life, Cynthia Nixon came out as a lesbian around 2004) but Charlotte had to adopt a child to have children.



As a 40 year old male, I've never known a dating market where women were not incredibly selective. The crazy thing is that I'm a middle aged guy who has been participating in the sexual marketplace for nearly 25 years. I was born in the early part of the Millennial generation.

A typical man (not a 'Chad') who is 25 now has had an even worse experience in general than I have.

Millennials like myself were part of the early wave of all of the bad trends in the mating marketplace that you discuss.

It's quite difficult to self-improve to get to be 6'0"+, very athletic, and a Top 5% earner. The height aspect is uncontrollable. There are guys with respectable physiques who are generally invisible to women because they are not 6'0"+ with big muscles.



I agree.



Single motherhood at certain ages is tied to educational attainment levels.

Women who do not earn bachelor's degrees tend to get married earlier in life and/or have children earlier in life. These are the women most likely to become single moms, either from having kids out of wedlock and those relationships eventually fail or getting married under age 25, having a kid, and then having a divorce before 30-32.

When women get bachelor's degrees, marriage and children look different. Women with bachelor's degrees typically don't get married until their late 20s and then have their first kid after their 30th birthday. Eventually, a good portion of these women will be single moms, but this will happen closer to when they turn 40.

Plenty of men are committing to relationships with single moms. There are single dads who do this but even some childless men are desperate enough to get into committed relationships with single moms.

In my dating life, I have had to be particular since I turned 35 to avoid committed relationships with single moms. This has narrowed my dating pool.

I've noticed a trend in white America where it seems that single motherhood is more accepted and seen as normal compared to not that long ago. I agree with your comments about it being highly correlated with educational level, most of these single moms had their first child in their late teens or early 20s......which is roughly at an age where you are barely out of high school and not at all established. Again, when you have an increasing number of women who fall into this category it lowers the number of single and childless women that are available on the market.

It's NOT natural for a man to enter into a relationship with a woman who already has a child, or maybe even children, from another man or maybe even other men. I believe that this is not a good thing for men to pursue because at the end of the day they will come second to the children, which is of course natural. This occurs in normal relationships but the issue here is that these children are not his, so it leads to some serious animosity. Again, I do not believe that it is natural for a man to enter into a serious relationship with a woman who already has children, this is especially the case if he does not have any of his own. I think the one way something like this could work is if he had his own children, hence his biological programming has been successful.

If you are a relatively young and childless man I think it's in your best interest to not go down this route. The problem is that past a certain age it can become increasingly difficult for a man to find a single AND childless woman that is actually something they'd be interested in. I don't care what anyone says, if you approaching 40 you are going to have a hard time finding this simply because the realistic dating age range for you is becomingly increasingly slimmer. It's got nothing to do with game and just simple reality, past 27 most women are going to be in serious relationships. A 40 year old man is not going to be able to pull a bunch of 25 year old women left and right, the reality is they are going for men somewhere around their age or maybe a few years older.

 

[sangheilios]

There are so many leftover men now that it is impossible for all leftover men to be low quality. It is true that there are obese neckbeards and porn addicts among the leftover men, but there are plenty of decent men out there who are leftovers.

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

If women are overlooking men with a $75k-$125k salary, who are relatively in shape, who drive a good car, and who have a few hobbies, that's a sign of an unhealthy market. A $75k-$125k salary is an above average salary.

There isn't much of a market for the $75,000-$125,000 salary guy who is relatively in shape but not 6'0"+ and fit. That's even more true if he's 35-44. If a guy gets into that salary range at 25-29, he has a better chance.

While a $75,000 - $125,000 salary is a good salary in most US markets, it's not enough to impress women. Most women with a bachelor's degree or higher are getting into this range when they are 30+ and a man in his 30s in that range isn't exciting. $115,000 as a 29 year old could impress a 21-24 year old if he's willing to spend a lot on her, but even she could find more $$.



A lot of women end up wasting their prime years with their absolute abundance. Even post age 30 or 35, women still have massive abundance. Dating websites and the swipe apps changed this. If a 33 year old woman found herself childless and single in 1990, she would have go to out to bars and events most nights to find some dates. 2010-present, if a 33 year woman found herself childless and single, she could use a dating website (early 2010s) or swipe app (2012-13 to present) and have hundreds of options. She would have the abundance that her 1990 equivalent could not have imagined. The 1990, 33 year old woman had to work ~3x more for a fraction of a dates of the more contemporary 33 year old woman.

A man at his theoretical SMV peak (35-40 years old) has fewer options due to swipe apps and social media DMs than a similarly aged woman who is around 7-10 years post peak.

Female abundance is distorting the market tremendously.

And this is exactly what I was getting at earlier with the other poster. We aren't talking about like 2% of men being left out of the dating market, we are potentially talking about well into the double digits here. I think a lot of people severely underestimate how much of a problem this can have for society as a whole. A bunch of single and childless men that have no prospects or opportunities no matter what they do. These are men that will feel little incentive to putting in that extra effort and will start checking out. Let's face it, men work hard and try to become higher status due to subconscious desires of wanting to acquire a mate, have children and support those children. When you take this possibility out of the equation where does that leave these men?

 

[SW15]

I've noticed a trend in white America where it seems that single motherhood is more accepted and seen as normal compared to not that long ago. I agree with your comments about it being highly correlated with educational level, most of these single moms had their first child in their late teens or early 20s......which is roughly at an age where you are barely out of high school and not at all established. Again, when you have an increasing number of women who fall into this category it lowers the number of single and childless women that are available on the market.

I am White. Most of my social circle connections are White. I am somewhat well versed on social trends in White America among of subset of White people.

White people who mainly have bachelor's degrees or higher + white collar jobs do these things slightly different. Plenty of educated, white collar men have failed marriages. The difference is that it happens later in life. White women with a bachelor's degree or higher typically get married in their late 20s, have their 1-2 babies in their early to mid-30s, and then will eventually divorce around 40.

There's also a group of White women who get into their 30s and early 40s and never marry or have children. This is getting more common, especially as the 1980s born Millennial White women are turning 40. I have tended to date these childless 30+ White women in recent years. Most of them have never been married and some have been penis carousel riders. Some had a long, non-marital relationship or two which kept them off of the penis carousel for a bit and lowered their notch count. There are also the perpetually single White women who tend to be present on swipe apps for years at a time.

White women who don't get a bachelor's degree have their babies earlier in life. A lot of them don't marry and have kids out of wedlock but the ones who do marry have their relationships fail. Whereas educated White women have their marriage fail closer to 40, less educated White women have their relationships fail closer to 30.

It's NOT natural for a man to enter into a relationship with a woman who already has a child, or maybe even children, from another man or maybe even other men. I believe that this is not a good thing for men to pursue because at the end of the day they will come second to the children, which is of course natural. This occurs in normal relationships but the issue here is that these children are not his, so it leads to some serious animosity. Again, I do not believe that it is natural for a man to enter into a serious relationship with a woman who already has children, this is especially the case if he does not have any of his own. I think the one way something like this could work is if he had his own children, hence his biological programming has been successful.

It is not natural for men to enter into a relationship with a woman who has a child or children from another man or multiple men. Plenty of men do this. Many of the men who do are single fathers. I don't have too much of an issue with single fathers and single mothers getting together in longer term relationships, though blended families are an absolute mess. I find childless men getting into LTRs with single mothers to be more of a problem. There are plenty of thirsty childless men (often in their 30s/40s) who will get into an LTR with a single mom due to scarcity. This is really bad.

If you are a relatively young and childless man I think it's in your best interest to not go down this route. The problem is that past a certain age it can become increasingly difficult for a man to find a single AND childless woman that is actually something they'd be interested in. I don't care what anyone says, if you approaching 40 you are going to have a hard time finding this simply because the realistic dating age range for you is becomingly increasingly slimmer. It's got nothing to do with game and just simple reality, past 27 most women are going to be in serious relationships. A 40 year old man is not going to be able to pull a bunch of 25 year old women left and right, the reality is they are going for men somewhere around their age or maybe a few years older.

I have experienced exactly what you describe since I turned 35. I am not rich enough to date 10+ years younger. My dating pool has shrunk a little bit, even with more and more Millennial women being childless. It can be difficult for 35-44 year old men to date childless women. Childless women are the best fit for me as a childless man. The lifestyle of a single mom is too different from my own. I also do not wish to be a cuck.

this is exactly what I was getting at earlier with the other poster. We aren't talking about like 2% of men being left out of the dating market, we are potentially talking about well into the double digits here. I think a lot of people severely underestimate how much of a problem this can have for society as a whole. A bunch of single and childless men that have no prospects or opportunities no matter what they do. These are men that will feel little incentive to putting in that extra effort and will start checking out. Let's face it, men work hard and try to become higher status due to subconscious desires of wanting to acquire a mate, have children and support those children. When you take this possibility out of the equation where does that leave these men?

More and more men are being rejected by women due to female abundance. Women are too busy now chasing 'Chads' so more and more normies are being rejected. Sub-5s are even having a more difficult time as the sub-5 women are rejecting them in favor of thirsty normies. This is female abundance in action.

The best solution to female abundance is learning Game and self-improvement but even that has limits as we've discussed.

 

[sangheilios]

I am White. Most of my social circle connections are White. I am somewhat well versed on social trends in White America among of subset of White people.

White people who mainly have bachelor's degrees or higher + white collar jobs do these things slightly different. Plenty of educated, white collar men have failed marriages. The difference is that it happens later in life. White women with a bachelor's degree or higher typically get married in their late 20s, have their 1-2 babies in their early to mid-30s, and then will eventually divorce around 40.

There's also a group of White women who get into their 30s and early 40s and never marry or have children. This is getting more common, especially as the 1980s born Millennial White women are turning 40. I have tended to date these childless 30+ White women in recent years. Most of them have never been married and some have been penis carousel riders. Some had a long, non-marital relationship or two which kept them off of the penis carousel for a bit and lowered their notch count. There are also the perpetually single White women who tend to be present on swipe apps for years at a time.

White women who don't get a bachelor's degree have their babies earlier in life. A lot of them don't marry and have kids out of wedlock but the ones who do marry have their relationships fail. Whereas educated White women have their marriage fail closer to 40, less educated White women have their relationships fail closer to 30.



It is not natural for men to enter into a relationship with a woman who has a child or children from another man or multiple men. Plenty of men do this. Many of the men who do are single fathers. I don't have too much of an issue with single fathers and single mothers getting together in longer term relationships, though blended families are an absolute mess. I find childless men getting into LTRs with single mothers to be more of a problem. There are plenty of thirsty childless men (often in their 30s/40s) who will get into an LTR with a single mom due to scarcity. This is really bad.



I have experienced exactly what you describe since I turned 35. I am not rich enough to date 10+ years younger. My dating pool has shrunk a little bit, even with more and more Millennial women being childless. It can be difficult for 35-44 year old men to date childless women. Childless women are the best fit for me as a childless man. The lifestyle of a single mom is too different from my own. I also do not wish to be a cuck.



More and more men are being rejected by women due to female abundance. Women are too busy now chasing 'Chads' so more and more normies are being rejected. Sub-5s are even having a more difficult time as the sub-5 women are rejecting them in favor of thirsty normies. This is female abundance in action.

The best solution to female abundance is learning Game and self-improvement but even that has limits as we've discussed.

You are right on the money.

I really think men need to ask themselves what it is that they want out of the life they are living and determine how best go about attaining this. We can discuss this for eternity and it will not change anything, it's just that this is the reality of the world we are living in and from there you need to make the decisions that are right for you.

If your goal was to start a family, I think it's important to realize that this may be a bit of a struggle and that you should prepare yourself for frustration. Your goal should be to find a more traditional/conservative woman who places importance on family values, women like this exist but you need to be realistic with where you can find them.

Here is something else men need to keep in mind. You could literally do everything correct and be on point and still not achieve what it is you are seeking. I think this is the most difficult thing for men to accept, unfortunately. This isn't the golden era of America where just existing and being a normal/average man would grant you a middle class lifestyle with a loving wife and children.

 

[corrector]

I find childless men getting into LTRs with single mothers to be more of a problem. There are plenty of thirsty childless men (often in their 30s/40s) who will get into an LTR with a single mom due to scarcity. This is really bad.

I have experienced exactly what you describe since I turned 35. I am not rich enough to date 10+ years younger. My dating pool has shrunk a little bit, even with more and more Millennial women being childless. It can be difficult for 35-44 year old men to date childless women. Childless women are the best fit for me as a childless man. The lifestyle of a single mom is too different from my own. I also do not wish to be a cuck.

Of course, a woman with a child comes with it's own trouble because like you said, you don't have any experience with children, and if you make an innoscent mistake (ie forget to send a gift for her child's birthday) then all of a sudden you are a framed as a bad guy. This is one of the issues that lead to divorce with my ex-wife. While it may not be the worst possible fate a guy can experience, it's definitely one that I wouldn't want anyone else to experience.

There is also a potential for jealously if you like the child's personality more than your partner. Suppose you are in a scenario that you are more compatible with a woman's daughter, especially if she's pre-teen/teen, you got into a relationship with a lady out of thirst but are actually more compatible with her daughter (ie which reminded me of my ex-gf before I dealt with ex-wife, as they were both the same height) and your partner gets jealous because you have that connection with her? Again, various unintended scenarios can crop up.

 

[SW15]

Here is something else men need to keep in mind. You could literally do everything correct and be on point and still not achieve what it is you are seeking. I think this is the most difficult thing for men to accept, unfortunately. This isn't the golden era of America where just existing and being a normal/average man would grant you a middle class lifestyle with a loving wife and children.

This is such an important point and not emphasized enough. With more and more men being rejected due to female abundance, plenty of men who did a lot of things right in their lives aren't desired.

Two recent threads have provided some good information on this.

Youtube short that sums up todays' dating market

This short popped up into my youtube feed the other day and it filled me up with laughter lol. While it's impossible to specifically quantify, the point that the guy made was that in previous generations the average man had to put in substantially less work in order to acquire a woman that was...

www.sosuave.net

Women Don't Want a Semi-Successful Man

Men in this category, $75k-$125k salary, relatively in shape, drive a good car, has a few hobbies, women do not want. Why? Because this man has standards. Women do not want to work for their men. Women of today want a simp or a millionaire. Simple as that. This is what society aka social media...

www.sosuave.net

 

[lost_blackbird]

This all becomes very easy when you swear off of them entirely.
I'd rather have nobody.

 

[Smok1nAce]

You don't understand the issue.

Most women ideally want to form a long term relationship with a man that they are attracted to that actually loves them, can potentially provide her with a family and help raise them, etc. Polygamist societies that still exist today have one thing in common, and that is they are very conservative and where women have little to no rights. Traditionally, arranged marriages were the norm and the young females were setup with a man often not of her choosing. The idea of marrying for love is more of a western and more modern phenomenon.

You can ask most women and they really wouldn't be comfortable being in a serious relationship with a man who had other women at the same time. The one exception I can think of is with black America, but that's a very different game because it's normal for them to be pumped and dumped by multiple men, have more than one "baby daddy", etc.

The leftover men are not necessarily low quality, like some of the posters on here seem to think. This could be due to a large variety of reasons but a lot of it is just having bad luck and not having things line up. When you've been talking with some girl from Tinder and you finally meet up for a date, you have to remind yourself that she was also entertaining a dozen other guys for potential dates next week. This woman may have liked you, but Rick is into motorcycles and she's always wanted to try it out. This is the reality of dating apps and what men are going to face.

The end result though is that many of these women honestly end up lost due to the sheer abundance they have. If they go through enough men their expectations are completely warped and possibly to the point where they may be completely incapable of ever developing a normal relationship with a man. Women often are not happy either with the dating market, though it's within a completely different reality than that of men.

We are going to see a high prevalence of single mothers and children born without father figures. A big part of this is the government aids in this endeavor, with it's end goal being the destruction of the family unit.......which it has done quite well with black America. I partially question if dating apps were intentionally designed to ruin the dating market to the point where so many men are being left completely without. Aside from the destruction of the family unit, as I mentioned previously, this would also be a fantastic means of lowering the population. I believe that what we are seeing in the current dating market is the early stages of a population collapse in America, whether or not this was some part of a master plan though I cannot say.

Its the end game for any "industrialized" nation, we've been through the feeding stages so to speak of the beast(America) when it need fresh bodies to build the economy and the best way to get this was for every man to have a family and kids (suburbia). This stage is over.

Now only the cream will rise to the top. Right now we are in the very early stages of this and it has nothing to do with the "best" genes moving forward into the next generations but simply the ones who are still feeding the beast.

The future of America (really humanity) is gene editing, AI and robots. Is it dark, Idk i guess it depends on you.

In the next 500 years AI will edit human genes before birth so the human is best fit for living, it will be born outside a uterus in some type of orifice. AI will teach the baby and a robot will take care of its every need for life.

Once this becomes reality and the norm, idk whats next for humanity, maybe immortality.

Right now we are all distracted by nostalgic entertainment, pointless politics and the idea of "spreading our oaks".


If a man today is still excited by the idea of a family and children hes still under the the industrialized propaganda of the last 2000 years. Not to say its inherently a bad idea but in todays world it will not lead you to salvation.