Why bother getting married anymore??

[user43770]

Oh and btw while you KJ's are sitting all alone in front of your computer picking apart my post, I'm getting laid to a young, great looking latina. WITH NO CONDOM, NO FEAR and we play SMASHTV afterwards!!!!


(SHAME SHAME SHAME) :rock:

I love how guys assume they don't have to worry about STDs when they have a girlfriend. Do you know how many guys' girlfriends I've banged out? A few. Y'all can enjoy your fantasy world if you'd like.

 

[STR8UP]

Amidst all of this talk of "not being afraid" (which is a load of crap, BTW), I have yet to see someone post one, just ONE, good, solid, legitimate benefit that a man can receive by being married that he cannot.

Oh wait, I have one....a tax break!

For all of your support, you can't come up with anything that supports the idea that marriage benefits men in any way other than saving a little money on taxes. You are brainwashed into thinking that somehow it will make your life better, when in fact it makes most men's lives WORSE.

I'm not talking about avoiding women for the rest of your life....I'm talking about refusing to bow to societal (feminine) pressure to sign away half of your wealth while getting nothing in return.

Lets see here....man gets a tax break, woman gets an undated check for 50% of your sh!t. Yea, lets ignore the stats in favor of "living life". Sounds like a winning strategy.

I posted awhile back about how the TRUE romantics are men, and this just goes to prove my theory.

So, aside from placating your woman, is there any good reason why a man should marry?

 

[future_strongguy]

I don't really see any good reasons at all. I'm actually very happy that the country is in a marriage crises, STR8UP.

Feminism, Womanism, Women's Rights, Sexism Against the Men... whatever it is called that caused the downfall of marriage, I am thankful for it. Whatever it is called, when it started to show its ugly head in recent times, it freed women. Now women are seen as independent from man. This is a wonderful thing.

But just as it has freed women, it has freed men. Couples had the same problems in marriage 100 years ago as they did now. Back then, it was the man who had to work, and the woman got to stay at home. Men were trapped just as much as women were trapped.

But back then, you were REQUIRED to get married. You would receive a lot of social pressure to get married. Now, there is no pressure. You can sleep with any woman openly. You also don't need to have kids. Back then, if you didn't want kids, you would be shunned.

I sometimes wonder why I didn't get caught in "YOU NEED TO MARRY NOWWW!!" mindset, and now I realize why. The best way to not be trapped by lives problems is to control your ego. Talk to any man that is about to be married. Watch how he feels he is "SO RIGHT" about his woman and is "SO RIGHT" about everything and everyone who disagrees with him he will call stupid.

There is no doubt that marriage (today) goes against the laws of Nature. But lucky for us, Nature can NEVER be defeated. So from now on, we should not complain about marriage laws and divorce rates. Nature has created the marriage problem to free us, and it's working (people are not getting married as much).

^That said, I plan to get married when I find a good woman. But in my short life, I haven't found even one. Does this worry me? No, because I don't need a woman.

God it's good to be a man!

 

[A-Unit]

I love how guys assume they don't have to worry about STDs when they have a girlfriend. Do you know how many guys' girlfriends I've banged out? A few. Y'all can enjoy your fantasy world if you'd like.

So you're admitting to giving women STDS or....?

Probably want to clarify that one, bud.

No one presumes that relationship = safety or security, but the alternative certainly comes with more risks, should be willing to accept 'em.

- kids with random women.
- you think you don't like the idea of being divorced, try knocking up a girl you just met who may have the kid, not be with you, and still expect payments.
- diseases.
- other guys banging her giving you diseases.

I been there, mostly done that. If I want it, I'll go back to it. But guys thinking they'll be perpetual bachelors til they die are also living in a fantasy world. Unless you're 60 or 50 and move to a foreign country where you "might" lay significantly younger chicks or you pay for cosmetic surgery to keep you appealing, a very minor % of all guys will be single and banging decent ass.

But as youths, you know teens like 18 and in their 20's and such, we can think we'll all be supermans and heroes and big business tycoons with plenty of time to live, but we don't. Many of you all know people who died too young, contracted cancer or whatever, or just got phucked up on drugs. The hope is we won't ever leave this plane, but we will, inevitably.

As much as you cite people for being into a fantasy world, there's an equally large contingent of guys so frazzled about relationships, so frazzled about marriage, that they are paranoid players at best and relationship failures at worst. I've conceded that the laws are bogus which bind two people together just so that they ensure pension benefits, tax benefits, and all other civil benefits are obtained.

However, what you're also conceding is that NO good woman worth being forever exists. And if you believe that, that also means the reverse is true...that No man is worth being with forever. So are we human beings so disposable? So uninteresting? So fleeting with our fickle emotions that we are mere animals seeking fulfillment of our base instincts?

Women are what women are and men are what men are. But you can't blanket women with the guilt of your past relationships or statistics you read on websites.

I've always believed a relationship must function with OR without the need for a title, such as GF or marital, or even friend. You ATTAIN/OBTAIN the position BEFORE you gain the title, whether it's a job, hobby, or relationship. You act the part THEN are rewarded the recognition, if you even need it.

I'm not a person who see's it as...

1. Date
2. Relationship
3. Marriage

I think that STEP from R to M has to be HUGE. Like something really important to make it so, realizing the gravity of you both are about to do. Not just " oh well that's the next step, we been together awhile, so let's do it. "

But like..." i'll support you 100%."

OFC marriage was a necessity in generations long gone because of social values and also because of protection and stability in society, but today we have the freedom and carless luxury of NOT doing that which has actually LOOSENED up society...

- people are less social; they barely know their neighbors.
- kids grow up in broken homes, continuing the promiscuous cycle they see in their parents resulting in families with no central focus or core values.
- despite what some people say, the playing around results in less inclination to have a relationship that is healthy; "pvssy or d!ck" is so easy to come by, people just leave at the first disagreement.
- relegates human beings into sexual puppets.

It's hypocritical really, because everyone boning whomever is "playing House" and could pop a kid out and thus throw them on welfare or any other government program. If you don't like Marriage, why be randomly phucking? The more you do, the greater liklihood of random kids.

I loved the one guy who was actually SUING because he banged some FWB who said she'd abort the child if they had one or she on was BCP (something like that), and then he did knock her up, she expects him to pay for her baby, he has no say in the abortion or not, and probably won't marry her.

Most women's lines to that..."You can stick your prick in me, but not marry me?"

You're playing with fire if you think that can continue forever without serious repercussions. That kid deserves what comes to him, because there's no medal for banging loads of sluts who'd spread their legs for you, as easily as any other guy. The real trick, and point of respect or admiration, is in getting with a worthwhile woman who makes a RELATIONSHIP actually ENJOYABLE to be in...i.e. Nymph, cooks, cleans, carries her weight in a relationship, retains her sense of individual self, ETC.

I been there. Can go back there. I see both sides of the debate, but I think the younger guys are more narrow-minded, but are also the ones who are having kids out of wed lock, at ages they definately don't want to, not marrying the woman and creating one heck of a bad life, fooling around with loads of girls (likes its an achievement), and then trying to tell older guys how they hate marriage or some such bs. I don't buy it.

If your parents didn't believe in some sort of marriage, I'm sure you wouldn't be here. And unfortunately, if they aren't together, I'm sure you wish they were and had learned to get along or make a great, cohabitational life for you. But if everyone thought kids or marriage was BS, the world wouldn't have gotten this far.

 

[speed dawg]

1. No more sex with other women

This part sucks, no doubt.

2. Steadily decreasing sex life with wife

I have noticed this, but it's not because we're not sexually fulfilled.

3. High chance of physical deterioration (both you and wife...how often do you see a hot older couple?)

Well honestly, that's what happens as you get older. However I'm still in pretty good shape now, but it harder, because you age, single or married.

4. High chance of divorce....with almost certainty you will lose half your assets to child support, alimony, etc, regardless of pre-nups

Seems to be a high chance of divorce nowadays. But there's also a low chance that those divorcees see things the way I do now.

5. Must devote life to family before yourself. Say goodbye to your freedom and dreams

No way. This should not happen in a marriage. A bad marriage, maybe.

6. Onus is on you to make marriage work...because its always the man's fault if the marriage does not work out

Well, you are the leader. Act like it. My marriage hasn't been too much work outside of me finding the energy to get my d1ck up again because of the sig. other's unrelenting sex drive.

I don't get why guys here are so against marriage. I guess a lot of AFC's get married for the wrong reasons.

 

[future_strongguy]

I'm not talking about avoiding women for the rest of your life....I'm talking about refusing to bow to societal (feminine) pressure to sign away half of your wealth while getting nothing in return.

This is very, very true. Go to a bunch of girls and say, in the nicest tone possible, "I am never going to get married. It's just not for me."

Now all of the sudden, they will hate you. Why? Because they realize you cannot do anything for them. You cannot be influenced, and therefor cannot be trapped.

(If these girls don't hate you yet, either they are GOOD girls, or they just want you for sex. More than likely they just want you for sex... I haven't seen too many good girls in my life. So you have the green light to use them for sex if you want ).

One of the useful things from pooks blog (dapook.blogspot.com) is the ultimate rule to weed out the good women from the bad women: judge a woman by how she treats a guy who can do nothing for her.

-The guy who doesn't get married receives societal (feminine) pressure.
-The guy who goes on a vacation and spends his money on foreign prostitutes receives societal (feminine) pressure.
-The guy who is celibate receives societal (feminine) pressure.

Why do they receive pressure? Is there anything wrong with these things? Not really. It's just a different way to live life from the normal. They receive pressure and are shunned because THEY CAN DO NOTHING FOR WOMEN.

The modern definition for MAN is: A person who can do things for women. So if a guy doesn't do things for women, he is called UNMANLY.

^No one should fall for that. I didn't even fall for that stuff when I was 13 years old. But it seems like 99% of men do.

 

[Colossus]

So, aside from placating your woman, is there any good reason why a man should marry?

Again you're looking at marriage as this collective, conserved institution that has definite standardized outcomes no matter which two parties enter into it.

Further, you are using the weak strawman defense of asking anyone to 'prove' to you why marriage would benefit a man; not acknowledging that all outcomes will be different and are almost entirely determined by the two people entering into marriage in the first place, AND their motivations for doing so. All you have to do is swat down the opposition's reasoning with your absolutist Leykis rhetoric, and you come out beliefs unscathed.

Believe it or not I actually agree that many marriages come to fruition (and ruin) because of societal pressure and it's trickle-down effect on western womens' collective psyches. But, having recognized this, you have that much MORE practical wisdom should you meet a future Mrs. Str8up you may want to settle down with. Instead of predicating that the vast majority of marriages are essentially doomed and irrationally ruling out any future matrimony for yourself based on this presumption, you could use your knowledge of WHY they often fail to your advantage in mate selection.

If you dont want to get married because you truly LIKE being single and unattached, that is one thing. But framing it as this unilateral machine that churns out broken and penniless men regardless of the premise and WOMAN that they entered into it with is not only irrational but clearly belies your own contempt.



I am not the marriage champion. I could easily make my own case for a guy staying single, at least legally speaking. However, I also recognize that thinking your are going to stay a happy, swinging bachelor for the rest of your life is just as unrealistic as thinking that marriage is going to bring you all this bliss. There are plenty of disadvantages, but if you find someone with whom the advantages of being with them for life outweigh the disadvantages, and you are fully cognizant of said disadvantages, then you are a wiser (and luckier) than most men. And dont ask me to list those advantages for you, because they will be different for every single person who finds themself there.

 

[future_strongguy]

blah blah blah blah blah... you still didn't answer the question. is there any good reason to get married? I'm interested in this question as well.

SO many men say they have found "the one" and they will never be like all the others and end up getting divorced, yet eventually they end up unhappy and divorced! SO many people say they wont end up like their parents, but years later they wind up JUST like them!

So how do we avoid it? Marriage kind of scares me. Perhaps that is why I've never been trapped by the idea of marriage. Even as a boy, I swore to never have kids and get married when all my friends said they would eventually. Maybe to solution is NOT to be scared, but to not have the egotist attitude of "OMG SHE'S THE ONE!!!!" that all married men seem to have. Maybe it is really true that the smartest men are the ones that think they know nothing!

Personally I don't see any good reasons to get married. In addition, I don't see any reason to live with a girl and not get married. This is because the problems extend past the laws.. this is more due to the fact that I've never really been in love though. But whatever happened to men not needing women?

 

[Colossus]

Youre asking for an objective, standardized reason to get married, but you dont realize the fallacy of your question.

You want me to hit you with some one-size-fits-all reasoning in favor of marriage, but I got news for you: there isnt any.

It is entirely up to YOU and the woman in question. You may, one day, meet a woman and decide that your love for each othe is reason enough to get married. Or you may not. But only you can decide what is "good" reason.

Marriage should scare you. It's no joke. My advice to you is to educate yourself on the reasons why western marriages are prone to failure. Not just the cynical SoSuave reasons or the Tom Leykis reasons, but statistical evidence and most importantly, your own observation. Dont give in to the temptation to draw absolute conclusions based off some anecdotal reports and the skewed view of a few convincing pundits.

 

[FairShake]

Don't want to be another absolutist here, but most lifelong bachelors I know are lonely, bitter, and no fun to be around.

People who get married too early and those that never get married lose out alot in life. Ironic that.

 

[STR8UP]

Strawman, huh?

I asked a very simple, straightforward question.

The question is "What benefit is there for a man to get married"? Not "What reasons might a couple have to get married"? Your twisting of my question is the strawman here.

And you are absolutely right....this is straight out of the Leykis handbook.

He gets these people on the air and asks them this very question.

What benefit is there for a man to get married?

And all these people who are trying to defend their position (usually women) can do is trip over their own words "Um...er...well...uh" and toss out common shaming words and things such as the "lonely old man" myth. Out of the dozen or so times leykis posed this question, not one person came up with a good solid benefit that marriage gives to a man.

Before listening to Leykis I had plenty of issues with marriage, but after hearing him pose this question to numerous people, I asked myself the same question. "What benefit is there for a man to get married"? And my answer is "There is none".

If you have never truly asked yourself that question, I recommend you do just that and answer it honestly.

It just might change the way you look at things.

 

[romangod]

Don't want to be another absolutist here, but most lifelong bachelors I know are lonely, bitter, and no fun to be around.

People who get married too early and those that never get married lose out alot in life. Ironic that.

Really? Most divorced men I know are some of the most bitter people I know. After being taken to the cleaners and barely having a pot to piss in they swear they'll never marry again. According to you it's all timing. When is the right time to marry?


Cheers!

 

[Killer_Demo]

im not ever gettin married...i aint gonna work for free and have her take my check

 

[future_strongguy]

Sounds like a good enough answer for me!

I don't understand what the fuss is all about, anyways! Guys need to stop looking at it from SOCIETIES point of view, and start looking at it from THEIR OWN point of view.

SOCIETIES point of view = OH NO! Marriage is ruined, and because life cannot continue without marriage, we are doomed!

OUR point of view = I will not fall for the trap that the others have fallen for. Whatever it is, God, sosuave.com, a dream, whatever... something made me aware of the problems with marriage and thus saved me, so I am thankful.

Think for a moment that you are one of your friends who is blinded by societies "ways." He wants to get married just like every one else, and is setting himself up for a path of failure. But you are smarter. He is completely unaware. You are completely aware!

Aren't you glad you aren't your friend? You now have a shot at a great life! Nature only gives a few of us this second chance!

See?? It's all about perspective! So let's stop crying about it and let's be happy about it. Feminists of the world.... I love you! You've saved my life! :rockon:

 

[Colossus]

Strawman, huh?

I asked a very simple, straightforward question.

The question is "What benefit is there for a man to get married"? Not "What reasons might a couple have to get married"? Your twisting of my question is the strawman here.

And you are absolutely right....this is straight out of the Leykis handbook.

He gets these people on the air and asks them this very question.

What benefit is there for a man to get married?

And all these people who are trying to defend their position (usually women) can do is trip over their own words "Um...er...well...uh" and toss out common shaming words and things such as the "lonely old man" myth. Out of the dozen or so times leykis posed this question, not one person came up with a good solid benefit that marriage gives to a man.

Before listening to Leykis I had plenty of issues with marriage, but after hearing him pose this question to numerous people, I asked myself the same question. "What benefit is there for a man to get married"? And my answer is "There is none".

If you have never truly asked yourself that question, I recommend you do just that and answer it honestly.

It just might change the way you look at things.

Believe me, I have asked myself this very question. And I usually come to the same conclusion as you---that I dont see any ostensible benefits to being married at this point in time.

Now, if we ask this question assuming you marry the right girl, I can think of several advantages:

-Stable emotional and practical support
-Regular sex (although steadily decreasing in frequency)
-Companionship for your travels and adventures
-A full-time mother, if you want to have kids
-Meals cooked for you, usually
-Laundry done for you, usually
-If you have shared interests (huge, i think), you have a buddy to do things with
-Tax breaks
-Insurance breaks
-Combined income
-Shared errands and responsibilities


Aside from the tax and insurance breaks, you CAN basically get all these things with a live-in, long-term girlfriend. But me personally, I'm not too keen on living with a gf. If I am going to cohabitate with a woman I will probably be pretty damn intent on being with her for the long haul. My views on that could change, but that's how I feel now.

So I dont think we disagree that much, I just dont like it when this question is asked and the response is "there is no good reason for any man to get married". It's absolutist SS rhetoric, and that type of rigid thinking is what keeps men from living and thinking dynamically.

 

[ChrizZ]

People only get married for 4 reasons:

a) money

b) guaranteed sex

c) social stigma if you are not married

d) love

 

[Yanky]

The problem with marriage isn't even the women or the men. They are a part of it, but the real problem and uselessness in getting married, for a man at least, has to do with the law. Why get married when the government has such a stake in your marriages.

Previously a bad marriage to the wrong woman was a mistake, but now it's more like stepping on a land mine thanks to the possible consequences.

It is the laws governing marriage that have made it unproductive. You CANNOT in this day and age think about marriage without thinking about the ramifications of divorce and those alone are enough to show that marriage is NOT worth it anymore.

 

[STR8UP]

Aside from the tax and insurance breaks, you CAN basically get all these things with a live-in, long-term girlfriend. But me personally, I'm not too keen on living with a gf. If I am going to cohabitate with a woman I will probably be pretty damn intent on being with her for the long haul. My views on that could change, but that's how I feel now.

So I dont think we disagree that much, I just dont like it when this question is asked and the response is "there is no good reason for any man to get married".

So you agree that there isn't anything in it for a man, yet you still want to sign away your life? It sounds like you have some kind of emotional attachment to the concept of marriage that no amount of logic and reason will ever change. That's scary.

Lets pretend we are back in the year 2000. Real estate values aren't soaring, but the value of property has been going up steadily for years.

You are offering your house for sale because you want to move to something bigger. I come to you and say "Hey Mr. Seller, I love your house, but I want to make sure property values don't go down, so I have prepared a contract that says I have the option to purchase this house at any time within the next five years for the price you are asking today. BTW....I don't have any money to give you right now."

What would you do? You would laugh at me and slam the door in my face....that's what you would do. There is absolutely NOTHING in that contract that benefits the seller.

When you get married, you are essentially giving your wife a "free option" that she can cash in at any time. And that option becomes more and more valuable the more money you make. Lets see.....is it in my best interest to stay with the cash flow and hope the value of my option grows? Or am I better off exercising it for a cash benefit today?

If you think for a second that stuff like this doesn't go through chicks minds at least subconsciously, you are deluded.

Why on EARTH would you give a woman a one way ticket to walk out on you along with a monetary incentive when she decides to use it?

It's absolutist SS rhetoric, and that type of rigid thinking is what keeps men from living and thinking dynamically.

You have to explain to me how a statement that is supported by logic and can only be countered with wishy washy emotional chick speak could possibly keep a man from "living and thinking dynamically"....

Until someone shows me a good solid reason to get married, I will stick to my "absolutist SS rhetoric" when it comes to this subject.

 

[Jitterbug]

Now, if we ask this question assuming you marry the right girl, I can think of several advantages:

-Stable emotional and practical support
That's what family & friends are for.

-Regular sex (although steadily decreasing in frequency)
Many married men aren't that lucky. It's NOT a guarantee at all.

-Companionship for your travels and adventures
You can meet many people on your travel. It's not hard to find companions.

-A full-time mother, if you want to have kids
This is the only valid reason, IMO.

-Meals cooked for you, usually
Most women these days can't cook. A lot of the younger ones can't even boil eggs. I cook better than every woman I've dated bar one (thanks to my mum being a chef & dad being a terrific cook), but even she is too lazy to cook and would rather eat out.

-Laundry done for you, usually
Ah, a man can dream!

It's not like it's worth risking so much just to get someone to do your laundry. It's not hard!


-If you have shared interests (huge, i think), you have a buddy to do things with
Can't think of anything I do that I don't already have buddies to do it with.

-Tax breaks
-Insurance breaks
But you're less free financially.

-Combined income
Her money is hers and your money is hers.

-Shared errands and responsibilities
But the number of errands and responsibilities more than doubles so it's a moot point.

Aside from the tax and insurance breaks, you CAN basically get all these things with a live-in, long-term girlfriend. But me personally, I'm not too keen on living with a gf. If I am going to cohabitate with a woman I will probably be pretty damn intent on being with her for the long haul. My views on that could change, but that's how I feel now.

A live-in LTR can come under defacto law (essentially making it a marriage) after a while, depending on where you are. It's usually between 6 months and 2 years. You're right that if you're gonna cohabitate with a chick for the long term, you might as well marry her, for if you're gonna get fvcked in the arse by her & the Divorce Industry down the track, you'll take it from behind with pride of yourself having done the right thing (getting married) and having genuine victimhood to b!tch about on MRA blogs.

I have older people, including my parents with 32 successful years relationship + marriage, telling me either to not get married at all or to delay it as much as possible until they sort the law out.

 

[piranha45]

A live-in LTR can come under defacto law (essentially making it a marriage) after a while, depending on where you are. It's usually between 6 months and 2 years. You're right that if you're gonna cohabitate with a chick for the long term, you might as well marry her, for if you're gonna get fvcked in the arse by her & the Divorce Industry down the track, you'll take it from behind with pride of yourself having done the right thing (getting married) and having genuine victimhood to b!tch about on MRA blogs.

FORTUNATELY, everyone on sosuave would surely abide by the Iron Rules of Tomassi, which would negate that hypothetical situation