Why are there so many dudes in the PUA/Game community that don't have their sh*t together?

[pipeman84]

Because it’s a good way to meet and make genuine connection with women? I used daygame and cold approach and it got me laid with “high quality ‘ women

All the infields I've watched on YouTube are cringy AF (I recently addressed the weirdo who was literally running after women on an elevator). No high quality woman (meaning physically attractive and mentally sane) would respond to such approach.

Prostitutes are rife with disease why would anyone want sex with one? It’s a massive difference between a prostitute and cold approach lay one requires social coheision ,vibe and smv the other just basically money

There are all sorts of prostitutes. Many IG 'models' guys drool over are actually prostitutes. A woman who has sex outside of a serious relationship is a slvt ... arguably dumber than the escort, who monetises the sex. She gets the money while the bimbo being pumped & dumped by the PUA gets nothing.

 

[GoodMan32]

You are illiterate in this area yet you have said that you will not ask a woman out to see whether it’s friendliness or flirting. This leaves you with nothing.

Women like men with women. They even like promiscuous men.

Wearing a wedding ring while being unwed is a terrible idea.

I've humiliated myself enough times by mistaking niceness for interest, there's a reason I won't ask a woman out anymore to see whether it's friendliness or flirting.

If (as you pointed out) broads like men with broads, why would it be a terrible idea to wear a fake wedding ring?

 

[SW15]

If you're incredibly socially awkward though, would being tall even help? For example, I had an incredibly socially awkward high school classmate who was probably 6'5" (yet no girls wanted him). He was one of only 2 guys in my grade who were stranger than me.

From what I've seen, it appears there's a certain social awkwardness threshold where once you cross it, height becomes irrelevant (as you automatically get eliminated based on social awkwardness alone)

Being tall will help but the combination that's best is tall and fit/muscular.

Social awkwardness will offset the combination of tall and fit/muscular at a certain point. You've observed that with your comment about the threshold. There is a threshold and no one knows where it is. It's subjective.

As always, seduction is a combination of looks, money, status, and personality. A 6'0"+ man who is tall/muscular doesn't need as much of a personality as a more average looking man. He still needs some personality attributes.

It's been said on this forum that a woman will no longer settle for an average man because gone are the days when a woman absolutely needed a man for survival.

Your post (about how the woman you know has only gotten casual sex on apps; nothing close to marriage) illustrates the flipside: Just like a woman doesn't absolutely need a man for marriage anymore, a man doesn't absolutely need a woman for marriage anymore (as most Millennial men know how to do stuff around the house...laundry, operating the dishwasher, etc).

Men who were born in the 1930s/40s, on the other hand, had no choice but to get married, as they didn't know how to do the so-called woman's work around the house.

So, for a Millennial man who can hold his own with housework, what incentive does he have to settle for that average-looking woman you know (other than for short-term casual sex)?

You have an interesting observation that Millennial men don't need women as much for marriage anymore as compared to Silent Generation/early Baby Boomer men born in the 1930s-1940s.

I think Millennial men who can manage household labor tasks will still pursue marriage. While cooking, cleaning, and other household labor tasks skills might be less required, there are still elements of marriage that will be appealing.

I think sex, emotional support, and a good situation for raising children will be what is more desired in a marriage by men. The first two (sex and emotional support) can be a part of a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship without marriage. Getting married for the purposes of family formation and raising children into adulthood will have a place in Western cultures in the near term.

The role of sex in marriage is changing. More people are having sex without being married. There are still religions that ban sex outside of marriage for its members. Those members will pursue marriage for the sake of sex. In less devoutly religious pairings, there will still be men who get married with sex as a motivating factor. There are blue pilled men who think that they will need to marry their girlfriend to keep her having sex with him. Scarcity mentality will take over and there will be a wedding and a marriage.

Men will either need a girlfriend or a wife for his emotional support needs. I mentioned yesterday in a thread that emotional support is part of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs in psychology. While a man can get some level of emotional support from his family and friends, that is often not sufficient for his needs. As a man ages, his parents will eventually get terminal illnesses and die. He will no longer be able to count on his parents for emotional support and the same would be true for any uncles/aunts of similar ages to his parents. Then, siblings and cousins are not likely to be available for emotional support either. In adulthood, men aren't able to count on siblings or cousins too much for emotional support. Most men's siblings or cousins are blue pilled men/women who will be busy with their own marriages, divorces, raising children, and then eventually dealing with grandchildren when the man is old enough. Like siblings and cousins, friends often become less available in adulthood for emotional support because friends are busy with their marriages, divorces, raising children, and eventually dealing with grandchildren. Eventually, a girlfriend or wife becomes valuable for emotional support and companionship. Scarcity mentality does take over here as well for many men in thinking they need to marry to keep up the emotional support aspects they receive from a romantic relationship.

Marriage provides some level of stability in a partnership and helps with the atmosphere for raising children. There are many men who desire to have children in a relationship. This is a motivator for men desiring marriage, even for men who are only mildly religious or not religious at all. It is best for the children if a mother and father stay together until the children reach adulthood.

Marriages still fail regularly. Marriages have a 50%+ failure rate if failure is measured by a divorce within 20 years of the wedding day.

There's about an 80% chance of AT LEAST one of the following 3 things happening over the lifespan of a marriage...

• Divorce
• Affair
• Long periods of a mediocre to subpar dynamic where the relationship just continues on based on inertia/societal pressure. The passion is gone.

Do any of those 3 things sound good to you? They don't to me.

I want to finish this response by discussing the late 30s woman that I know who was mentioned in the quote above. What are her chances for getting married now? What's her SMV like today? What might she have done differently in the past?

Many men won't marry her for sex alone, though she might be able to lure a similarly aged mediocre looking beta male into marriage with sex. She won't get marriage for sex alone from an alpha/sigma guy. Alpha/sigma guys would marry someone but they'd likely marry someone younger and better looking. Additionally, if they want to have children, they don't want children with a woman pushing 40. A lot of betas wouldn't want to have biological children or even adopt children with a woman close to her age.

She is unlikely to get the opportunity to marry for having biological children at this point. She is likely to have problems conceiving in her late 30s/early 40s. Adoption is probably more realistic for her based on her age. However, I think it would be challenging for her to find a man willing to marry her and wanting to adopt a child with her. There are a number of issues around that and I don't want to go into detail on that in this thread.

She is unlikely to find a male who wants to marry her based on what emotional support can she offer.

As an average looking woman in her late 30s, her SMV is not that high. She has options but she's not likely to like what options she has. There's a decent chance that she would be able to get a low to mid tier beta to commit to her but she's not likely to like what he has to offer her. The children issue would be a bigger issue. There's a chance that the beta who is willing to commit to her already has children from a previous relationship or marriage. That's not something easy to deal with for any woman.

She didn't receive a marriage proposal in any of her relationships prior to age 30. She was better positioned for marriage and having biological children when she was younger.

On the apps right now, she has plenty of options. She has what she would consider to be an illusion of abundance.

 

[Isildur1]

This is true at a high level. However, it is worth examining some of the details.

Some problems may emerge in the "living his life" part of it. As a result, that will make finding longer term relationships more difficult. A lot of unattached men do not have a day-to-day routine that is going to make finding a longer term girlfriend or even shorter term sex easy. Too many men are spending time either doing their job, spending time in their home, and maybe going to a gym where most women aren't approachable due to headphones/earbuds.

Men with subpar day-to-day routines often end up as app swipers, which is inefficient if you don't look like Chad Thundercocck (aka 85th-90th percentile + in looks).

Approaching strangers is often a difficult path too. It can be inefficient as well and it's also time consuming to leave home, look presentable, select a venue, seek IOIs/approach targets, and start conversations. A good portion of initial interactions will be conversational dead ends.

In general, social circle interactions are better options in the shorter to medium to for finding a girlfriend. This is most applicable for middle of the bell curve men. If you're looking for an extended relationship (1-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is through a social circle. You won't have to do as many approaches in either non-bar venues or nightlife venues or take as many rejections. You won't have a miserable time on swipe apps.

Places of recreation can be good options and some hobbies might be beneficial as well (a part of places of recreation). Digging deeper leads to more debate on it. Some recreation options are better than others.



My thoughts on IOIs have evolved over time.

Generally speaking, you're correct that something is off and the individual man may/may not be responsible for a lack of IOIs.

Many men started to notice that IOIs were decreasing for them around the late 2000s/early 2010s (around the same time that the smartphone become popular). Around then, it started to become clear that Millennials (the young adult generation of that time) were not as socially savvy as previous generation and that women were getting immersed in their technologies. The Millennial generation had their formative years as a lot of new technologies were emerging. Now in 2024, we have 2 generations (Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z) that have been raised in more digital worlds and have been less socially savvy. These less socially savvy Millennial and Gen Z are not as good at signaling interest to men.

Courtney Ryan had a video lately where she reacted to a Gen Z TikToker who had a difficult time signaling interest to a man in a coffee shop. The Gen Z TikToker is as attractive woman and she thought she was giving IOIs to a man. She removed her earbuds and tried to make solid eye contact with a guy. I consider this an example of how the younger generations are struggling with IOIs.

It is easier to approach with IOIs in place. It makes it more likely that the approach will be successful. However, with Millennial and Gen Z women being weaker at signaling interest, more and more men will find that they'll need to do approaches without IOIs.





I am a college educated White male who has primary been dealing with college educated White females since I graduated college.

A good portion of college educated women are bougie women. Not all, but there's a lot of overlap there.

Women with bachelor's degrees or higher (especially White women) do tend to have higher expectations in men.

IG model/influencer types also have higher expectations.

Both of those female groups tend to be heavily pursued. A lot of women with bachelor's degrees or higher tend to use swipe apps. Bumble seems to market to the educated white collar professional type female.

Down-to-earth women who are more genuine and higher interest level also have some baseline standards that they expect from men. Part of why they might "really dig you" is your money/possessions (at a base level) in combination with looks and personality.

You mention women who make more income than a man. Any woman who is higher income than a specific man will tend to be more difficult in longer term relationships, but could be a shorter term option for certain men. Higher income females often have numerous personality/attitude issues that aren't good in longer term relationships and might even be difficult in the short term.



Having your stuff together is going to help with some of the most attractive women. These are women with abundance of options in life. I agree with everything you said in this quote.

For me daygame transformed my life - yes it was time consuming but I learnt a great deal from it and when done right it can be incredibly awarding . I made a lot of connections and enjoyable experiences and all together felt more appreciated in these relationships it also grew my social confidence something that didn’t happen in my teen years - yes it takes time but alot of men waste their time doing other bogus stuff like watching sports , scrolling on instagram etc. if they spend 30 mins a day open 2-3 women over a year that’s 1000 women and you’re going to get some results eneveitably with half decent smv

I also saw a lot of wingmen being successful too although a quantity did fail who were more on the Asperger’s autistic spectrum and lacked the empathy to make decent social connections with women that they met- I saw that as the main sticking point that was really hard for 10-20 percent of men to fix - for the rest dealing with the mental burden of blow outs and bad dates was also tricky those who could withstand that generally got good results

 

[SW15]

daygame transformed my life

I read Roosh's "Day Bang" very soon after it was published in September 2011. I transitioned more of my practice from nightlife venues to non-bar. I was in my late 20s then and seeking a way out of the bars. I had been aware of daygame as early as my early 20s but never knew how to put daygame into practice in real life until "Day Bang".

In 2011-2012, I had zero experience with what it is considered pure daygame. At that point in life, I had been in the mating environment for over 10 years. Almost all of my experience at that point in life was night game (off campus apartment parties in college and bars after I turned 21). I had never done a grocery store approach. I had never done a mall or bookstore approach. In high school and college, I had approached some girls in my classes and on campus, but it was the minority of my lifetime approaches at that point in my life.

Over the past 12-13 years, I have been a primarily daygame guy when I have needed to meet new women. There have also been times in the past 12-13 years where I have used websites and apps, but those were always poor experiences. I still have done some night game since the early 2010s but more of my night game was done during the 2000s.

for the rest dealing with the mental burden of blow outs and bad dates was also tricky those who could withstand that generally got good results

The rejections and bad dates can be tough. I've dealt with both of those in approaching.

I have been disrespected, humiliated, and emotionally abused via approaching strangers. The treatment is unreal and inhumane. If I were a dog and I was treated as poorly as I have been in approaching, I would be in one of those ASPCA commercials.

A lot of men are going to be dealing with the mental burden of rejections and bad dates from approaching strangers. This is something that happens in both bar approaching and non-bar approaching. For some, the rejections and bad dates end up having a long term effect.

There are also men who get a mental burden from a lack of success in the app environment too.

 

[GoodMan32]

I think you should get over this fear of humiliation by getting humiliated a little more...


Because no woman is going to believe that you're married.

I've been asked if I'm married before. I've also been presumed to be married before.

Getting over a fear of humiliation by getting humiliated more; that's like saying someone who's afraid of dogs (because they've been bitten by dogs) could get over their fear of dogs by getting bit some more. In both cases, more exposure is only going to further solidify the phobia.

 

[GoodMan32]

For me daygame transformed my life - yes it was time consuming but I learnt a great deal from it and when done right it can be incredibly awarding . I made a lot of connections and enjoyable experiences and all together felt more appreciated in these relationships it also grew my social confidence something that didn’t happen in my teen years - yes it takes time but alot of men waste their time doing other bogus stuff like watching sports , scrolling on instagram etc. if they spend 30 mins a day open 2-3 women over a year that’s 1000 women and you’re going to get some results eneveitably with half decent smv

I also saw a lot of wingmen being successful too although a quantity did fail who were more on the Asperger’s autistic spectrum and lacked the empathy to make decent social connections with women that they met- I saw that as the main sticking point that was really hard for 10-20 percent of men to fix - for the rest dealing with the mental burden of blow outs and bad dates was also tricky those who could withstand that generally got good results

To touch upon a topic you addressed, it just so happens I got my last date from being a wingman (the woman ended up preferring me). To touch upon another topic you addressed, it just so happens I'm on the spectrum (which is likely a major part of why the relationship ultimately failed...the whole thing is still strange though)

It's unfortunate (but true) when you say the spectrum hurdle is extremely hard to fix.

 

[GoodMan32]

I read Roosh's "Day Bang" very soon after it was published in September 2011. I transitioned more of my practice from nightlife venues to non-bar. I was in my late 20s then and seeking a way out of the bars. I had been aware of daygame as early as my early 20s but never knew how to put daygame into practice in real life until "Day Bang".

In 2011-2012, I had zero experience with what it is considered pure daygame. At that point in life, I had been in the mating environment for over 10 years. Almost all of my experience at that point in life was night game (off campus apartment parties in college and bars after I turned 21). I had never done a grocery store approach. I had never done a mall or bookstore approach. In high school and college, I had approached some girls in my classes and on campus, but it was the minority of my lifetime approaches at that point in my life.

Over the past 12-13 years, I have been a primarily daygame guy when I have needed to meet new women. There have also been times in the past 12-13 years where I have used websites and apps, but those were always poor experiences. I still have done some night game since the early 2010s but more of my night game was done during the 2000s.



The rejections and bad dates can be tough. I've dealt with both of those in approaching.

I have been disrespected, humiliated, and emotionally abused via approaching strangers. The treatment is unreal and inhumane. If I were a dog and I was treated as poorly as I have been in approaching, I would be in one of those ASPCA commercials.

A lot of men are going to be dealing with the mental burden of rejections and bad dates from approaching strangers. This is something that happens in both bar approaching and non-bar approaching. For some, the rejections and bad dates end up having a long term effect.

There are also men who get a mental burden from a lack of success in the app environment too.

The timing of Roosh's "Day Bang" is interesting (2011). By 2011, we were starting to notice some ill effects the tech era was having on a guy's chances with a woman (although certainly nothing like 2024). It's possible that's why there was a need for Roosh to publish the book.

How alarming to hear you've been disrespected and humiliated through cold approaches (to the point of describing the treatment as inhumane). Even though you don't win every time, I was under the impression your failures weren't as severe as it turns out they've been.

 

[SW15]

fake wedding ring.

Wearing a wedding ring while being unwed is a terrible idea.

This is a very old idea. This idea was part of a Seinfeld episode in 1991 and it didn't work well in this fictional representation of what could happen.

The timing of Roosh's "Day Bang" is interesting (2011). By 2011, we were starting to notice some ill effects the tech era was having on a guy's chances with a woman (although certainly nothing like 2024). It's possible that's why there was a need for Roosh to publish the book.

By 2011, Roosh had been in the seduction community for many years. He knew what was going on. He also had some articles in his archive about tech affecting the mating market. Some were likely before 2011 and some were after 2011.

How alarming to hear you've been disrespected and humiliated through cold approaches (to the point of describing the treatment as inhumane). Even though you don't win every time, I was under the impression your failures weren't as severe as it turns out they've been.

While I have had successes in approaching strangers, there have been plenty of failures too. Every man takes a lot of failures while approaching. Approachers like Paul Janka, Neil Strauss, Nick Krauser, and Roosh all have mentioned the rejections that they have taken. It's common for nearly any volume approacher to take many unpleasant rejections.

 

[GoodMan32]

Nope, it's like saying someone who is afraid of dogs to learn more about how dogs see threats and approach dogs without getting bitten, but your autism manifests in rigid structures, so you'd rather come up with excuses than taking action.

Ok, so if only there were a way to approach a woman without getting rejected.

 

[Solomon]

This is true at a high level. However, it is worth examining some of the details.

Some problems may emerge in the "living his life" part of it. As a result, that will make finding longer term relationships more difficult. A lot of unattached men do not have a day-to-day routine that is going to make finding a longer term girlfriend or even shorter term sex easy. Too many men are spending time either doing their job, spending time in their home, and maybe going to a gym where most women aren't approachable due to headphones/earbuds.

Men with subpar day-to-day routines often end up as app swipers, which is inefficient if you don't look like Chad Thundercocck (aka 85th-90th percentile + in looks).

Approaching strangers is often a difficult path too. It can be inefficient as well and it's also time consuming to leave home, look presentable, select a venue, seek IOIs/approach targets, and start conversations. A good portion of initial interactions will be conversational dead ends.

In general, social circle interactions are better options in the shorter to medium to for finding a girlfriend. This is most applicable for middle of the bell curve men. If you're looking for an extended relationship (1-5 years or more), your best bet for getting that with the least amount of grief and frustration is through a social circle. You won't have to do as many approaches in either non-bar venues or nightlife venues or take as many rejections. You won't have a miserable time on swipe apps.

Places of recreation can be good options and some hobbies might be beneficial as well (a part of places of recreation). Digging deeper leads to more debate on it. Some recreation options are better than others.



My thoughts on IOIs have evolved over time.

Generally speaking, you're correct that something is off and the individual man may/may not be responsible for a lack of IOIs.

Many men started to notice that IOIs were decreasing for them around the late 2000s/early 2010s (around the same time that the smartphone become popular). Around then, it started to become clear that Millennials (the young adult generation of that time) were not as socially savvy as previous generation and that women were getting immersed in their technologies. The Millennial generation had their formative years as a lot of new technologies were emerging. Now in 2024, we have 2 generations (Gen Y/Millennials and Gen Z) that have been raised in more digital worlds and have been less socially savvy. These less socially savvy Millennial and Gen Z are not as good at signaling interest to men.

Courtney Ryan had a video lately where she reacted to a Gen Z TikToker who had a difficult time signaling interest to a man in a coffee shop. The Gen Z TikToker is as attractive woman and she thought she was giving IOIs to a man. She removed her earbuds and tried to make solid eye contact with a guy. I consider this an example of how the younger generations are struggling with IOIs.

It is easier to approach with IOIs in place. It makes it more likely that the approach will be successful. However, with Millennial and Gen Z women being weaker at signaling interest, more and more men will find that they'll need to do approaches without IOIs.





I am a college educated White male who has primary been dealing with college educated White females since I graduated college.

A good portion of college educated women are bougie women. Not all, but there's a lot of overlap there.

Women with bachelor's degrees or higher (especially White women) do tend to have higher expectations in men.

IG model/influencer types also have higher expectations.

Both of those female groups tend to be heavily pursued. A lot of women with bachelor's degrees or higher tend to use swipe apps. Bumble seems to market to the educated white collar professional type female.

Down-to-earth women who are more genuine and higher interest level also have some baseline standards that they expect from men. Part of why they might "really dig you" is your money/possessions (at a base level) in combination with looks and personality.

You mention women who make more income than a man. Any woman who is higher income than a specific man will tend to be more difficult in longer term relationships, but could be a shorter term option for certain men. Higher income females often have numerous personality/attitude issues that aren't good in longer term relationships and might even be difficult in the short term.



Having your stuff together is going to help with some of the most attractive women. These are women with abundance of options in life. I agree with everything you said in this quote.

Not sure what race has to do with this, sounds to me like you're using it as an excuse for lack of success or trying to cope, but I'll play your game., I'm a black guy in a mostly white state (78%) and I have dealt with those "bougie white women"and educated white women etc that you're talking about. I would say that 90% of the white women I deal with tend to have Bachelor's or Master's degrees. There is nothing special about them, matter fact those women are the easiest to get if you're willing to deal with their bull****. The secret to dealing with these women is simple you have to have higher value in her mind compared to hers. Most white women won't date a black men even in 2024 so my pool is far smaller compared to yours(since there aren't a lot of black women in my state). However, as recently as last month I had 3 plates now down to 2(Both have Bachelor's degrees). If a woman perceives your value is lower she will treat you as such. However, I will say that most of them are not girlfriend material they are insufferable, shallow and narcissistic. I'm noticing a pattern with your post that they always talk about the impossibility of getting these chicks instead of the probability or better yet solutions. Just because you're not having success with them and limited with your belfies doesn't mean this is the absolute truth for everyone.

Having your stuff together does help sorrfy SW15 but you're wrong and clearly you're struggling with those types. Even when I was broke I was dealing with those types of women, I would even say as a black man it should be harder for me to get these women then it is for you as you are white. It is what it it is.

 

[SW15]

There is nothing special about them, matter fact those women are the easiest to get if you're willing to deal with their bull****. The secret to dealing with these women is simple you have to have higher value in her mind compared to hers
they always talk about the impossibility of getting these chicks instead of the probability or better yet solutions.

I never say that anything is impossible. I have no idea where you get that impression.

I do acknowledge when things are difficult. Bougie White women (most of my interactions) difficult women. That's why many avoid them or go to the third world. I think a lot of White men have challenging interactions with bougie White women. I know that I have had to make more of an effort over time with them. I have had successes with them and a lot of failures with them. I am grateful for the successes that I have had but some of the failures have been difficult.

I can imagine that it would be difficult for a lot of non-White men to interact with them as well.

I tend to find White and Hispanic women most attractive but tend to run in circles with more White women.

I will say that most of them are not girlfriend material they are insufferable, shallow and narcissistic.

That definitely makes the interactions with them more challenging.

 

[GoodMan32]

There is, but you have to get over your fear of rejection first. And I don't see that happening.

If there's a way to approach a woman without getting rejected, couldn't I simply be taught that method? (and then there would be no need to get over my fear of rejection)

 

[GoodMan32]

Not sure what race has to do with this, sounds to me like you're using it as an excuse for lack of success or trying to cope, but I'll play your game., I'm a black guy in a mostly white state (78%) and I have dealt with those "bougie white women"and educated white women etc that you're talking about. I would say that 90% of the white women I deal with tend to have Bachelor's or Master's degrees. There is nothing special about them, matter fact those women are the easiest to get if you're willing to deal with their bull****. The secret to dealing with these women is simple you have to have higher value in her mind compared to hers. Most white women won't date a black men even in 2024 so my pool is far smaller compared to yours(since there aren't a lot of black women in my state). However, as recently as last month I had 3 plates now down to 2(Both have Bachelor's degrees). If a woman perceives your value is lower she will treat you as such. However, I will say that most of them are not girlfriend material they are insufferable, shallow and narcissistic. I'm noticing a pattern with your post that they always talk about the impossibility of getting these chicks instead of the probability or better yet solutions. Just because you're not having success with them and limited with your belfies doesn't mean this is the absolute truth for everyone.

Having your stuff together does help sorrfy SW15 but you're wrong and clearly you're struggling with those types. Even when I was broke I was dealing with those types of women, I would even say as a black man it should be harder for me to get these women then it is for you as you are white. It is what it it is.

Even though it is true that a lot of white women won't go for black men, the white women who are willing to go for black men tend to (in many cases at least) fetishize black men. That would explain why even if most white women won't go for you (solely based on race), the ones who are willing to go for black men have been easy for you to nail.

Even if there are hardly any white women who will disqualify us (white men) based on the color of our skin, we don't have the fetishization factor working in our favor with white women (there are some mestizas who fetishize us white men, however...I would know)

 

[Manure Spherian]

If there's a way to approach a woman without getting rejected, couldn't I simply be taught that method?

You actually do not have to do some out-of-the-blue approach. I went to see my also-married friend of 37 years this last Saturday at a beer garden. We were standing at the bar and next to us were three women, with the closest one to us looking back and forth at us. My friend smiled at her and then she finally said, “hello,” and a conversation was started.
Another group of three wearing the slut version of lederhosen were on the other side of us and one of them kept looking at us as if she wanted to say, “are you gonna talk to me or what?”

We are not gorgeous men! However we are muscular, well dressed, make each other laugh, and probably present as friendly and open.

Pardon my French, but you appear to need to get the **** around people and socialize, and go for it at appropriate times. If I were single I would have asked for these women’s info and/or asked for a date right there (eg, “I’m free tomorrow. How about we meet somewhere around here.”) And if I got rejected, life would go on!

Do you have close friends and family?

 

[GoodMan32]

[


You actually do not have to do some out-of-the-blue approach. I went to see my also-married friend of 37 years this last Saturday at a beer garden. We were standing at the bar and next to us were three women, with the closest one to us looking back and forth at us. My friend smiled at her and then she finally said, “hello,” and a conversation was started.
Another group of three wearing the slut version of lederhosen were on the other side of us and one of them kept looking at us as if she wanted to say, “are you gonna talk to me or what?”

We are not gorgeous men! However we are muscular, well dressed, make each other laugh, and probably present as friendly and open.

Pardon my French, but you appear to need to get the **** around people and socialize, and go for it at appropriate times. If I were single I would have asked for these women’s info and/or asked for a date right there (eg, “I’m free tomorrow. How about we meet somewhere around here.”) And I got rejected, life would go on!

Do you have close friends and family?

To answer your question, I'd say I only have acquaintances (although there are some who have described themselves as a friend)

As for family, my parents are really the only ones I'm close with. Sometimes I see a lot of my parents. But then I also go through long stretches without seeing my parents.

Speaking of parents, I have a story that ties in with the story you just shared. One time when I was out to eat with parents and brother, a female patron was looking in my direction. My dad insisted it meant nothing. He even said I was being problematic by looking back.

 

[Manure Spherian]

To answer your question, I'd say I only have acquaintances (although there are some who have described themselves as a friend)

As for family, my parents are really the only ones I'm close with. Sometimes I see a lot of my parents. But then I also go through long stretches without seeing my parents.

Speaking of parents, I have a story that ties in with the story you just shared. One time when I was out to eat with parents and brother, a female patron was looking in my direction. My dad insisted it meant nothing. He even said I was being problematic by looking back.

I have noticed that those who are the most uptight about rejection are often socially disconnected, isolated.

 

[GoodMan32]

I have noticed that those who are the most uptight about rejection are often socially disconnected, isolated.

Other than a brief stretch in college, I've been pretty socially disconnected/isolated for 20 years now (ever since my childhood best friend left me for the cool kids)

One theory I have for why the socially disconnected/isolated are more uptight about rejection: If our social disconnect goes all the way back to childhood, chances are we got rejected at a higher rate than the typical guy by female classmates.

 

[Clockwerk50]

Other than a brief stretch in college, I've been pretty socially disconnected/isolated for 20 years now (ever since my childhood best friend left me for the cool kids)

One theory I have for why the socially disconnected/isolated are more uptight about rejection: If our social disconnect goes all the way back to childhood, chances are we got rejected at a higher rate than the typical guy by female classmates.

Ok.

 

[Solomon]

Even though it is true that a lot of white women won't go for black men, the white women who are willing to go for black men tend to (in many cases at least) fetishize black men. That would explain why even if most white women won't go for you (solely based on race), the ones who are willing to go for black men have been easy for you to nail.

Even if there are hardly any white women who will disqualify us (white men) based on the color of our skin, we don't have the fetishization factor working in our favor with white women (there are some mestizas who fetishize us white men, however...I would know)

But white men have the fetishization factor working for them when it comes to Asian and black women. White men are the most desired men on earth. I've gone out on the field with plenty of white guys not just that I knew but also off this forum. The game is far easier for them, I literally have seen black women throw themselves at my white wingman and him number closing with hardly any effort. I have never complained about race or advantages because it is what it is. Everyone has to find what works for them