Why are there so many dudes in the PUA/Game community that don't have their sh*t together?

[plumber]

It's very common advice given to single men to volunteer to meet women. I think this advice mainly comes from people with a blue pill ideology and it is given to men in the middle of the bell curve. An 85th-90th percentile man + (aka Chad Thundercocck) doesn't need to consider volunteering and is generally not told to volunteer. In general, I think more men would be better off focusing on diet and fitness rather than volunteering as actions that are more beneficial to meeting women and finding meaningful dating opportunities.

If a man is passionate about some cause and wants to volunteer for something, then it might be something worth doing. It might not be fruitful for finding women under that set of circumstances.

My sense is that very few longer term relationships form from volunteering. Its results in putting together LTRs likely does not justify its hype.

I also wonder if single women are given the advice to volunteer at the same rates that single men are given the advice to volunteer. I doubt it.

Not really red or blue pill, just life.

I don't expect that most of our users are already chad/thunder. If so then sure, they have a different path that probably does not involve this site.

Many hook ups are from volunteer situations and it is a good way to expand contacts, that then lead to other...

Yes focus on diet and fitness and money and mental health and style first.. Don't tell others to not volunteer, its much better than doing nothing from the keyboard.

If the man is just doing it(volunteer) to find women and doesn't really join the activity, its not going to work, just like you say. Most activities are like that, we see post after post where men can't even get hooked up in a club... that is FULL of hotness.

Keep doing what your doing and keep getting the same results....

I mean if what a person is doing is not working, then change. Volunteering is a way to do that, expect results after putting in some effort.

Remember, young hot women have pick from men of all ages. Almost no man turns them down. Maybe we have another thread about where and why they hang out...

 

[Manure Spherian]

Other than a brief stretch in college, I've been pretty socially disconnected/isolated for 20 years now (ever since my childhood best friend left me for the cool kids)

One theory I have for why the socially disconnected/isolated are more uptight about rejection: If our social disconnect goes all the way back to childhood, chances are we got rejected at a higher rate than the typical guy by female classmates.

That might be the case. I also think the isolated man has no buffer for rejection. Therefore, rejections hold more weight than they might had such a man been appropriately socialized. If a man has friends, close family members, or other people who care about and love him, rejection means little. If I were single at my age and got rejected, barring I had the same close friends and family members, maybe I'd be a little upset, but I would able to do an about-face on a woman, turn to the aforementioned people, and go on with life.

 

[Jesse Pinkman]

Ok SO I've been watching Love is Blind whilst working, I know it's a show but there is a lot of stuff that's relevant to this thread. There is a guy named Nick, 28 years old, lives in his parents basement, a former football player (kicker) who works as a realtor, The girl he is engaged too her name is Hannah 26 years old, she works a higher paying job then him

NIck's parents pay all his bills except for his car insurance and food. Nick has no clue about finances and 401K etc. Why am I bringing this up? because as a guy who has had a 401K since 21 it's cringe to watch someone so clueless about(basic) finances etc. The guy has only his looks and he isn't handy around the house either.

Now you gotta wonder if women are hypergamous what benefit is she getting from dealing with Nick? I don't see them getting married. IMO Nick shouldn't be on the show and

1. Find a girl that's cool with his situation
2. Level up his life then date after
3. Do both 1 and 2

Personally I think you should he should do 2, women will always be there but man if you're close to 30 years old and don't even know wtf a 401K is in 2024 dating and women is the last thing you need to be worried about!

You know, people bring up this story and mention the guy's looks and such but when I have seen this situation, some things come up.

I looked up the couple and Hannah is chubby, she is clearly better looking than him. I see this so much. Whales and chubby chicks end up getting with better looking or more in shape guys. It is like their version of getting even with financially successful men that end up with younger hotter women. Pic of couple for the reference.

 

[MatureDJ]

That might be the case. I also think the isolated man has no buffer for rejection. Therefore, rejections hold more weight than they might had such a man been appropriately socialized. If a man has friends, close family members, or other people who care about and love him, rejection means little. If I were single at my age and got rejected, barring I had the same close friends and family members, maybe I'd be a little upset, but I would able to do an about-face on a woman, turn to the aforementioned people, and go on with life.

I disagree. The chick that rejects him is a potential sexual mate, and no one else that cares about him is going to scratch that itch. It's like Marty's mother giving him all the support in the world, but in the end, he's still just a fat, little ugly man.

 

[MatureDJ]

You know, people bring up this story and mention the guy's looks and such but when I have seen this situation, some things come up.

I looked up the couple and Hannah is chubby, she is clearly better looking than him. I see this so much. Whales and chubby chicks end up getting with better looking or more in shape guys. It is like their version of getting even with financially successful men that end up with younger hotter women. Pic of couple for the reference.

Fat chicks like this shouldn't be doing the wardrobe malfunction style.

Oh, and did you intentionally mean to say that she is better looking than him. Granted, if she slimmed down, she would be a prime Stacy, whereas he is a Chad-lite.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I disagree. The chick that rejects him is a potential sexual mate, and no one else that cares about him is going to scratch that itch.

That is true, and I thought this was implied. However dealing with rejections of all sorts is easier when other things are in place.

Also, women can sniff out if a man is socially adjusted, which comes from having people in one’s life.

That’s my take, and I think it’s reasonable. What I’m seeing repeatedly on here are womanless men whose condition is one of a cluster of social problems, with a primary culprit being isolation generally.

Have you noticed the so-called slayers on this forum are 40 to 60 years old? Upon realizing this when I first got here, I was astonished. I mean, wouldn’t a seduction forum have mostly young-dumb-full-of-cvm men in the 20s succeeding? My astonishment soon went away when I figured that Gen Z men are alienated, feminized, confused, and raised by women (even if there are men in the homes) or in basket case households, and with fractured families. Hence the lack of social success generally.

Again, my two cents.

 

[pipeman84]

This morning at 6:15 AM, still dark out, a pretty woman walked towards me across the street. I didn’t make eye contact or say hello, as I’m usually inclined to do to neighbors because I don’t feel like freaking out women walking alone in the dark. She said, “Hey, do you go to — Fitness?” I walked across the street and had a conversation. I was not interested in anything but conversation because I’m taken and she saw my wedding band. But this is how stuff starts, indicators of interest that just pop up and then lead to something else.

No analysis, no thinking of one’s height or money, no calculating.

I went to see my also-married friend of 37 years this last Saturday at a beer garden. We were standing at the bar and next to us were three women, with the closest one to us looking back and forth at us. My friend smiled at her and then she finally said, “hello,” and a conversation was started.
Another group of three wearing the slut version of lederhosen were on the other side of us and one of them kept looking at us as if she wanted to say, “are you gonna talk to me or what?”

We are not gorgeous men! However we are muscular, well dressed, make each other laugh, and probably present as friendly and open.

I wonder if @sangheilios who is 6'3'' , ripped, muscular and in his mid 30s ever got such direct and strong IOIs.

 

[Manure Spherian]

I wonder if @sangheilios who is 6'3'' , ripped, muscular and in his mid 30s ever got such direct and strong IOIs.

I’d be surprised if he didn’t.

 

[SW15]

Why would a multi millionaire in his right fvcking mind go to malls to cold approach women and make an ass of himself in the process when he could book a hotel room and have guaranteed sex with an escort?

I can't imagine that a multimillionaire would do many of the typical daygame approach venues. I don't envision them doing sessions at the mall and likely not outdoors either (street, park, path).

For conventional dating, this is what I can imagine that a multimillionaire with his stuff together in life would do.

I could imagine a multimillionaire approaching at a high end gym like Equinox (either on the general gym floor or in a class) since he's likely already there.

A multimillionaire might own a boat/yacht which might be enough to attract many women to it.

He might also have some decent social circle options or high end nightlife venue type options. Some might also swipe on The League or Raya.

It's not like through 'day game' one gets a higher quality woman anyway ... it's just more time consuming and one has no control over the outcome.

When comparing non-bar approaching (daygame) to bar approaching (night game) to tech-based (swipe apps and social media DMs), there are advantages and disadvantages.

Daygame does offer the advantage of being in front of someone in real life right away. That's not offered in tech-based. Meeting someone in a daygame setting for an initial approach is a truer representation of who they actually are as compared to later night (9-10 PM or later) approaches at a bar. The person you meet at 10:30 PM at a bar might be a different person on some one-on-one date at an earlier hour and in a different venue in the future. Bar approaching (especially later night bar approaching) isn't the best for setting up compatible dates that can turn into something longer term.

As for time consuming, tech-based is probably the most time consuming though it offers an illusion of convenience since you are often sitting at home looking unpresentable while doing it. People have always like not having to get dressed up and look presentable to do swiping and texting. Daygame feels time consuming because you have to leave home and go to the daygame venue to do the approaches. Night game also has that same time consuming feeling.

 

[GoodMan32]

That might be the case. I also think the isolated man has no buffer for rejection. Therefore, rejections hold more weight than they might had such a man been appropriately socialized. If a man has friends, close family members, or other people who care about and love him, rejection means little. If I were single at my age and got rejected, barring I had the same close friends and family members, maybe I'd be a little upset, but I would able to do an about-face on a woman, turn to the aforementioned people, and go on with life.

Is 33 too late to become appropriately socialized?

 

[GoodMan32]

I disagree. The chick that rejects him is a potential sexual mate, and no one else that cares about him is going to scratch that itch. It's like Marty's mother giving him all the support in the world, but in the end, he's still just a fat, little ugly man.

You make a good point.

After my grandpa became widowed, a lot of my relatives couldn't comprehend why he started looking for a new sex partner (And my relatives used the argument "But he has plenty of relatives who love him")

I, on the other hand, understood damn well he needed a sex partner to scratch an itch the family couldn't. Even though he was in his 70s, he still had a sex drive.

 

[Salvation]

I disagree. The chick that rejects him is a potential sexual mate, and no one else that cares about him is going to scratch that itch. It's like Marty's mother giving him all the support in the world, but in the end, he's still just a fat, little ugly man.

I agree that love of family or friends doesn't make rejections of women less painful - cause i think there is a specific need of being validated as a man, a sexual being that is being deemed worthy by the other gender (i guess for women it's the need of being deemed worthy as a partner and not just a cumdumpster). (Or perhaps actually i don't have loving family and i have no friends and it is true).
But one specific setting really made me not care about rejections at all: Being in southeast asia in 2016. Cause so many girls reacted great to me, when some odd one didn't like me i didn't care at all, it was just amusing to me.

 

[Solomon]

You know, people bring up this story and mention the guy's looks and such but when I have seen this situation, some things come up.

I looked up the couple and Hannah is chubby, she is clearly better looking than him. I see this so much. Whales and chubby chicks end up getting with better looking or more in shape guys. It is like their version of getting even with financially successful men that end up with younger hotter women. Pic of couple for the reference.

Hannah actually lost the weight

Hannah is the the bougie educated chick @SW15 talks about She even bragged on the show about dating the "Quarterback"
in high school. I agree with her questioning Nick on his lack of financial literacy but her attitude is piss poor, she is insufferable and vapid

Any guy with an ounce of self-respect would not deal with her, IMO she isn't that hot to be acting like this. I would give her an
Adjustable 7" at best (more like a 6.5) but then take her attitude and her condescending insufferable personality it brings her down to a"3"

Hannah clearly doesn't respect Nick and needs a "Conventional Alpha" the type of guy she looks for will have her on rotation, I wouldn't even bother with her not because she is ugly but because her personality is not feminine, vapid, and just insufferable white women like this are a dime a dozen, not sure why anyone would want to waste their time with her because once again she is not that hot to be acting like this

 

[Manure Spherian]

Is 33 too late to become appropriately socialized?

Maintaining friendships and other ties with people is difficult enough at that age, let alone forming friendships, dealing with women, and being socially savvy. It is possible, but it will take serious introspection and effort.

 

[Solomon]

The bolded part doesn't add up. Why would a guy as described even swipe on a single mom, let alone date her?

Why would a multi millionaire in his right fvcking mind go to malls to cold approach women and make an ass of himself in the process when he could book a hotel room and have guaranteed sex with an escort? It's not like through 'day game' one gets a higher quality woman anyway ... it's just more time consuming and one has no control over the outcome.

I do agree with millionaires are not doing mall approaches I stopped doing them at 25 because I just got weirded out every time a girl said she was 17 so I stopped I'm curious though in your definition what is a "quality" woman I only ask cause I notice different people have different definitions. I noticed the bar for "quality' in 2025 is low, I had one guy tell me a quality woman is a woman who is hot

 

[SW15]

Hannah actually lost the weight

Hannah is the the bougie educated chick @SW15 talks about She even bragged on the show about dating the "Quarterback"
in high school.....her attitude is piss poor, she is insufferable and vapid

Any guy with an ounce of self-respect would not deal with her, IMO she isn't that hot to be acting like this. I would give her an
Adjustable 7" at best (more like a 6.5) but then take her attitude and her condensing vapid personality it brings her down to a"3"

Hannah clearly doesn't respect Nick and needs a "Conventional Alpha" the type of guy she looks for will have her on rotation, I wouldn't even bother with her not because she is ugly but because her personality is not feminine, vapid, and just insufferable white women like this are a dime a dozen, not sure why anyone would want to waste their time with her because once again she is not that hot to be acting like this

I saw her on Love is Blind clips before the weight loss. She wasn't attractive then. She is more attractive now with weight loss but still not that attractive. Agree that her attitude doesn't justify her level of attractiveness.

Since she is in medical device sales, she would be the bougie educated type. Medical device and pharmaceutical companies tend to hire more attractive women for sales rep jobs. Pharma is more notorious for that than med device. I'm still not sure how she got hired based on her looks.

I would not bother with her either. I would not have approached her in public when she was heavier.

I'm not sure how she's been able to date high school quarterbacks. Nick isn't doing well with the heavier version of her.

 

[pipeman84]

I'm curious though in your definition what is a "quality" woman I only ask cause I notice different people have different definitions.

Physically attractive and mentally sane, basically. The type of woman you'd marry and proudly present to your parents. No one can convince me that such a woman would respond to a lewd PUA doing 'day game'.

 

[SW15]

Physically attractive and mentally sane, basically. The type of woman you'd marry and proudly present to your parents. No one can convince me that such a woman would respond to a lewd PUA doing 'day game'.

A woman like that could be approached at a non-bar venue, which is daygame. She may or may not be responsive.

Indirect game might work better than more direct game. I'm thinking you think lewd PUA is more direct game.

 

[MatureDJ]

Is 33 too late to become appropriately socialized?

According to my favorite blackpill movie clip (i.e., with Raphael), after age 28, it's OVER since by then you've already been orphaned by the loves you've never had.

 

[BillyPilgrim]

It is like once in a blue moon I might meet a guy who works a White Collar job and does game.

FFS Jesse, what is the rate of return on a white collar career path these days? So they can be the Bottoms in the FEMA camps? Lololz