Why are religious guys such man shamers/pvssy beggers?

[The Gambler]

I just have to jump in here: if being a "beta" male is so bad from the perspective of having success with women, then why do beta traits continue to survive from one generation to the next?

Because unleashed hypergamy and c*ck carouselling has only been the standard average for the past 4 or so decades.

Both of you are correct, because both of you are talking about two separate things (regarding the overall traits of a beta, not just with women).

I think we all agree that the general definition of a "beta" is a follower. Nature dictates if you have 100 males of any kind living together (lions, dogs, humans, you can name just about anything that lives in a community), you can only have so many leaders... certainly not the majority, certainly not even half, and probably much less than that.

Do we really believe that the humble farmers and peasants of 300 years ago were uber-confident Don Juans when it came to women? Maybe some of them were. Surely some had more self-confidence than others. But to assume that the betas of 300 years ago acted radically different towards women than their current-day predecessors is a huge assumption.

I'm not blind to the past 40 years. The "unleashed hypergamy and c*ck carouselling" is absolutely in full force, and seems to be getting worse as time goes on. My personal belief is that this blitz has cemented the fate of many a beta male when it comes to women, in an age where they have no excuse for not grabbing their pair and stepping up to the plate.

 

[The Gambler]

the fact that you have to ask this question shows how ignorant men have become to the pages of history.

do you have to ask.

really.

its quite obvious actually.

until a 100 years ago....women were the property of men (no rights no property) mind and body...first the father then the husband.

there was no 'gaming', pua, or any of this faggot mind game sh!t don't call or text after 3 hours blah blah blah..women were owned thats it. simple.

women were meant to be ruled by men period end of story...they are like dogs fit only when they show absolute obedience.

but then elite men gave women rights...why? to halve men's wages...that was the factory system...you either payed men more or gave women less...guess which option they chose...in addiction dictators could easily sway women due to their emotional childlike state....so women were given the 'vote'.

Of course most faggotized modern men have forgotten these timeless truths as they shop for skinny jeans, band of outsider clothes, and fixie bikes ...to mankind's ultimate detriment.

You have pointed out the law, but you forgot to make mention of typical male behavior 100 years ago. The majority of men 100 years ago were betas, and the laws you mention were in place to stack the deck in their favor.

These days, men are forced to play with a deck stacked AGAINST them (we agree 100% there, my friend).

 

[Burroughs]

You have pointed out the law, but you forgot to make mention of typical male behavior 100 years ago. The majority of men 100 years ago were betas, and the laws you mention were in place to stack the deck in their favor.

These days, men are forced to play with a deck stacked AGAINST them (we agree 100% there, my friend).

As long as women are designated as 'property' the man can be alpha, beta, or omega it doesn't matter....he wants to fvck her he fvcks her no questions asked. He wants rabbit fried up....she fries up rabbit.

thats how simple life was for 2 million years as far as male/female dynamics....there was no dynamics! husbands laid down the law and women complied.

Whats truly sad is today only arab, and some rural hindu men understand this level of control.

women like dogs are meant to be man's faithful and loyal companions.

today women are free to run rabid...and you know what happens to rabid dogs:trouble:

 

[SXS]

Yes, a supernatural event. Your mom driving your dad off them fvking a new bar rat every night = not supernatural.

The point is that you must be very naive to believe such thing.

 

[zekko]

Do what we say and don't think for yourself

This was my impression of the PUA community when I first started coming here. It reminded me very much of a brainwashed cult. Someone would ask a question and you wouldn't even have to read the thread to know that people would be spouting out the same cliches that are taught in every PUA book, video, lesson, course, and forum.

A lot of the time it was clear they didn't even read the question. They just saw a certain keyword, and that set off the required knee jerk reaction. I'm like Backbreaker, I'm a big fan of independent thought. I actually think the forum has improved in that regard, something I've tried to encourage.

It seems some people want or need to be told what to do, and what to think. And maybe that's for the best for some people, if they don't have good judgement. But to develop good judgement, you have to do some things on your own.

And unfortunately, some leaders do not like to encourage independent thought because then that opens their ideas (and their leadership positions) up to be challenged.

 

[Boilermaker]

You voice your irritation with the PUA world all too often. And I am sure you genuinely felt a not-so-genuine vibe from them.

But those "knee-jerk" reactions and "cliches" helped a lot of people swallow the red pill along the years.

They are/were selling something so I think their wisdom was always meant to be taken with a grain of salt.

But let's not forget the revolution they brought to the masses as a by-product.

I think SoSuave has always been special in that regard, it was always pure to some extent. And that's partially because SoSuave never sold anything other than core brotherhood. And there have been many independent thinkers (For instance, Rollo as far as I have been following him for more than 5 years - not even once bowed to wisdom he did not internalize) ... A lot of other names come to mind, as well.

 

[muscleman]

Because they're frustrated in their inability to secure what they believe they're owed. What's taught in the Bible with regards to women and married life does not apply today. That's the disconnect.

That's one reason why I stopped going to church. It was anything but 'Godly'. I still read, pray, and search for answers, but on my own.

 

[betheman]

Yes.

betheman, your argument is one commonly used by lefties to justify socialist policies..."oh, there's so much influence by media and society and an overall lack of guidance, so people NEED to be excused for poor choices/behavior and they NEED the government/society to take care of them!"

Sell that sh!t to the tourists, this is a forum concerned with how to be a Man. I'm guessing 95% of the guys on here were not "guided" here by a mentor or savior - they found it on their own, through their own effort.

I myself had to break away from a very controlling religion when I was younger, lost friends and family in the process. I've also started a few successful businesses in my life too. You know who helped me see the light and choose the right path for me??? Nobody but ME. And I've failed many times too. I don't blame anyone but ME.

The problem with your argument is a lack of individual accountability. Everyone loves a scapegoat (religion, govt, society, women, lousy parents, blah blah blah) so they don't have to take a long hard look in the mirror and rethink everything. And if you CHOOSE not to take that look in the mirror, I got no sympathy for ya.

Don't forget - all groups are comprised of individuals. The buck always stops at the individual level, and that individual's choices. Scapegoating is women's business, not ours.

oh look at me, arent I clever, I figured all this out myself!
good for you, you can abuse and pillory AFC's all you want, you cannot escape the fact that massive social pressure exists, more so than ever, on keeping and maintaining guys as AFC's, That dear boy, is not their fault, yes they have a responsibility to take ownership of their own lives and make their own decisions.
do you realise how many psychologists work in advertising? lots, and they do so because it works, people can be controlled and minipulated.

so you made it out, your a badass alpha, good for you

 

[Down Low]

A local Methodist church is again this year hosting a Halloween party for children.

Say again? Isn't Halloween the epitome of blasphemy? Leave it to Protestants to shoot themselves in their own feet. One store (owned by a Protestant) advertises that its chocolate is "heavenly," while next door they're selling "Sinfully delicious" whatever. Sure they're conflating -- the Seven Deadly Sins is technically a misnomer -- but you get the point. The rise of national churches coincided with the rise of modern, mercantile nation-states. Endless factionalization and splintering from the Church coincided with its growing inconvenience to a class that's hell-bent on never fitting their camel-sized wallets through the eye of a needle. A gleaming mega-church isn't the Christian Church. It's the end product of the self-castrating parody of the Church. One bishop told me that he thinks the Church will soon have just a small niche following, sort of like the early Christians in the Roman Empire. I get the feeling that the Church is already that way, plus attendance by a lot of cattle who turn around and take their kids trick-or-treating.

Cattle do what they think they're supposed to do. In other words, they don't think. They're herded. Your average "I'm a [insert religion here]" has probably broken 8 of the 10 Commandments and is working hard on the last two. They're simply incapable of understanding the meaning of the words they pretend to revere. Or, worse still, they understand the words, grasp why their forefathers followed that social code, then turn around and do the exact opposite. "I'm not supposed to steal, but . . . ." "I'm not supposed to lust after my neighbor, but . . . ." "I had to have an abortion, but . . . ."

OK fine. 95% of people are stupid or dummy down and act as functional idiots. I accept that. What I can't accept is a society that punishes ordinary stupid individuals for being ordinary stupid individuals. Use 'em, abuse 'em, neglect 'em, and if they get in the way, kill 'em. Even if only 5% of the men understand their responsibilities to everyone else, that should be plenty enough to keep the herd safely within the bounds of getting drunk and throwing rocks and going home to the family before dawn. That's not happening. Instead, we have Bible-beating liars looking for way-too-easy adulterers.

You don't like the idea of having to herd your fellow idiots through life. You'd rather they all examined the facts scientifically, like a good merchant, and found which ideas were profitable and which couldn't sell. Good luck. The people who go around calling themselves "atheists" are mostly doing so for the shock value, stroking their egos, and looking for libertine sexual adventures on the guise of freedom from repression. They're just cattle following a different cowboy. If you had a retarded brother, you wouldn't think twice. You'd herd him through life. Maybe pleasantly, without looking like you were doing so, but herd him nevertheless. So why is it so hard for Christians to grasp the rhetorical question: are you your brother's keeper?

 

[backbreaker]

i just got back from chili's where i picked up a to go order for some friends we have over later. you would think there is a Madonna concert going on inside there is a line every bit of 15 deep..OUTSIDE.. just to get inside chili's.

you walk in, and it looks like a scene out of Brave New World... the room is full of 21-28 year old white males, decent to above avg looking, blue jeans, button down shirt tucked in, with some HB 6-7.5 eating reasonably priced chain food.

Now mind you i live in ****ing LA.. like you can't find **** unique to do in LA you ahve to pound chili's on a friday night.

This is the AFC's problem. they can't think for themselves. they are group thinkers. they do what people tell them is unique and nice. they hav eno personality, no real interests outside of pleasing everyone else.

the guy at chili's goes and pays 40 bucks for meals and drinks, then takes the broad to some over priced movie, out about 80 bucks for the entire night to get a peck on the check when he drops the girl off home, and bangs his head on what eh has to do to break this spell. i know beucase i've been that guy sitting at chili's too many times in the past. he is so narrow minded, that he does not realize that all he has to do is look up, and look around and there are 100 other him's in the same building.. he's interchangeable. there is nothing about him, that she can't get from 20-30 other guys.

the more you can't think out the box, the more you resert to harder/stronger AFC mantra and behaviors. thus the church going. the AFC blames the party girls that like to have fun on friday nights and **** so he convinced himself he needs to go to church but the real problem si that there is nothing different from him than every other guy who wants to take her out on friday night.

 

[Boilermaker]

Great post, although I would not call posting newbie problems here "hypocrisy." The community is based on science, not faith. Asking questions, heck even finding the right questions to ask, is encouraged. You see it from time to time - some guy who has 3,000 posts comes back and says "fellas I slipped back into AFC-ism, what can I do?" Sometimes he knows the answers but needs to be told. But it's not about faith. Faith, as Archie Bunker said, is believing something nobody in their right mind would ever believe. Game is based on behaviorism, observation, theories, and adjusting and correcting where necessary. We can be loyal to the principles, but we have to allow that we might be wrong.

(Some "gurus" turn Game into a cult of personality and have their worshipers - so be it. But I think it takes away from the proper focus.)

Great post, I totally agree with this. There's a methodical way of going about this, whether or not one uses it is a different thing.

"game" is as flexible as a rubber band, it is what it is today, it can change tomorrow based on new evidence, social circumstances and culture.

Religion cannot, "faith" is dogma, by definition. It took 200 years before

religion could adapt itself to unbearable evidence supporting Evolution. And

all they came up with was "Intelligent Design", claiming it was "god" who

started the whole evolutionary process!

When you find the root cause of that, they will blame something else. And

eventually as Hemingway said, All thinking men will be atheists.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

I think the frustration Gambler, Zekko and Colossus have with regards to the men in churchianity and how their core beliefs and religion has been delegitimized, is due entirely to these men being acculturated in a feminized society. As a result that feminization has saturated into mainstream religion.

We don't allow religious debate on SoSuave, but I read a lot of evangelicals at Dalrock's blog complain about how the men in their church 'just don't get it'. The blue pill IS the mainstream christian default position for these men. So you can hardly expect these guys to relate to anything you might want to hold them accountable for. Their feminized mental point of origin IS part of what their religion means to them.

Why Christians Need Game

 

[Poonani Maker]

There's too many distractions (cellphone, her indecisive nature, listens to the next woman as gospel truth about you) for women today to leave you after you've given her her temporary thrill. And this is going World-wide. I know this is off-topic.

 

[SXS]

OK fine. 95% of people are stupid or dummy down and act as functional idiots.

Sigworthy. Although I think the % should be higher.

 

[Warrior74]

I think the frustration Gambler, Zekko and Colossus have with regards to the men in churchianity and how their core beliefs and religion has been delegitimized, is due entirely to these men being acculturated in a feminized society. As a result that feminization has saturated into mainstream religion.

We don't allow religious debate on SoSuave, but I read a lot of evangelicals at Dalrock's blog complain about how the men in their church 'just don't get it'. The blue pill IS the mainstream christian default position for these men. So you can hardly expect these guys to relate to anything you might want to hold them accountable for. Their feminized mental point of origin IS part of what their religion means to them.

Why Christians Need Game

Good post.

 

[backbreaker]

If you think about it, in a way you really need to have tighter game if you are very religious.

Everyone is quick to look at the 30 year old woman who is trying to find jesus and think that it's easy pickins for a life long AFC. Adn there is a lot of truth to that, however there is one thing that isn't touched up upon, and to me this is the biggest difference between Christan girls and non christian girls, assuming that all else being equal they are decent enough omen with normal morals, is that non christian women, are forced to face the music in regards to their actions and decisions in a way that christian women don't have to. A Christan woman can explain whatever **** up's she's committed to Satan or god's plan lol. nothing you can do about it? Had a gangbang when you were out of town? Satan was tempting me and I failed, but i asked for forgiveness now so it's all good come here and give me a kiss lol. Was a ***** for pretty much my entire life before i met you? i was out of touch with god, i'm not out of touch anymore so you can't hold that **** against me anymore. lol what the hell can you tell a christian single mom who is 27 and has a 6 year old when she says it was god's plan for me to have the baby.

I'm not saying that non christian woman are BETTER, but beucase they for the most part, don't have the faith that christian women have, they are at the very least, they have to answer some questions about how they played the part of their own behavior. they have to own up to it and at the very least admit they ****ed up, not satan or god's plan or anything like that.

Like my mom to this day, is ****ing selfish beyond belief. and she will say things ilke "well that's the devil working on me but I'm praying for help' and i'm like dammit that's YOU lol. You can stop being selfish whenever you feel like it. She doesn't have to own her actions.

 

[Warrior74]

If you think about it, in a way you really need to have tighter game if you are very religious.

Everyone is quick to look at the 30 year old woman who is trying to find jesus and think that it's easy pickins for a life long AFC. Adn there is a lot of truth to that, however there is one thing that isn't touched up upon, and to me this is the biggest difference between Christan girls and non christian girls, assuming that all else being equal they are decent enough omen with normal morals, is that non christian women, are forced to face the music in regards to their actions and decisions in a way that christian women don't have to. A Christan woman can explain whatever **** up's she's committed to Satan or god's plan lol. nothing you can do about it? Had a gangbang when you were out of town? Satan was tempting me and I failed, but i asked for forgiveness now so it's all good come here and give me a kiss lol. Was a ***** for pretty much my entire life before i met you? i was out of touch with god, i'm not out of touch anymore so you can't hold that **** against me anymore. lol what the hell can you tell a christian single mom who is 27 and has a 6 year old when she says it was god's plan for me to have the baby.

I'm not saying that non christian woman are BETTER, but beucase they for the most part, don't have the faith that christian women have, they are at the very least, they have to answer some questions about how they played the part of their own behavior. they have to own up to it and at the very least admit they ****ed up, not satan or god's plan or anything like that.

Like my mom to this day, is ****ing selfish beyond belief. and she will say things ilke "well that's the devil working on me but I'm praying for help' and i'm like dammit that's YOU lol. You can stop being selfish whenever you feel like it. She doesn't have to own her actions.

yah, it's nothing you can 'say'. But there is plenty you can do. Treat em the same as you would any other girl and game on or move on. Watch what they do, not what they say.

 

[backbreaker]

I'm saying yes, we know that. But the guy who grew up in and around church and doesn't question anything that is said whatsoever, he's done lol.

In short what i am trying to say is that AFC's who are AFC for religous reasons have it much worse off than just, regular i can't get laid AFC's because they actually believe there is a divine reason for everything that is going wrong in their life so they don't question anything. I'm saying that guy needs this site worse than anyone else Seedcase he not only is AFC he's got conviction behind his AFC behavior

 

[zekko]

I think the frustration Gambler, Zekko and Colossus have with regards to the men in churchianity and how their core beliefs and religion has been delegitimized, is due entirely to these men being acculturated in a feminized society. As a result that feminization has saturated into mainstream religion.

Rollo is correct. The problem is that the church has been feminized by the current culture, which is in direct conflict with the patriarchal traditions and scriptures of Christianity. And when political correctness and feminism come up against core beliefs, guess who wins in today's world?

Like my mom to this day, is ****ing selfish beyond belief. and she will say things ilke "well that's the devil working on me but I'm praying for help' and i'm like dammit that's YOU lol. You can stop being selfish whenever you feel like it. She doesn't have to own her actions.

Interesting that you bring up the devil. There is a school of thought that sees the devil as a metaphor for human selfishness. Lucifer was cast out of heaven for wanting to ursurp God's throne for himself - just as man wants to sit on the throne of his own life. He wants to rule himself rather than obeying God. I'm not saying this is my belief, but I do think the metaphor fits pretty well.

Lastly, I'm noting the title of this thread. I hope Warrior's intent was not to imply that ALL "religious" guys are men shamers and pvssy beggars, because I certainly don't believe that to be the case. However, the church as an institution has suffered from feminization, along with the rest of mainstream culture, as Rollo has noted.

I know there can be a lot of friction between believers and atheists. And I know a lot of atheists on the internet take the stance that those who have a spiritual bent are simply "morons". I take exception to this as well, since the decision to believe or not believe in a "higher power" is mainly a philosophical question, a way to view life, as opposed to a scientific one. I would prefer that the discussion not degenerate in that direction.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Read this blog post and then read through some of the comments:
http://lovinglifeathome.wordpress.com/2012/08/06/25-ways-to-communicate-respect/

This response is exactly what feminized christianity looks like. Now imagine you're a christian guy brought up to believe in a christianized gender equalism, and these commenters are the women 'believers' you get to choose from. Then imagine you're the pastor of a large congregation with an overwhelming membership of these women. What are you going to preach when it comes to gender issues and 'solid marriages'?