What would war in the future be about, oil or water?

[Latinoman]

if oil were the primary goal, Japan would have attacked the Dutch East Indies. there's no oil (that they have taken home) at Pearl Harbor. the goal was to knock out the US navy, not cut off or take any oil we already had access to.

I was posting from a handhell so I missed this part. Do you know WHO in the Dutch East Indies were in charge of producing the oil? The U.S. as the investment was done by American company Mobil (it had another name at the time). And add the Roosevelt oil embargo.

That was the catalist for the War. Now, Japan choose Pearl Harbor because their intention was to take the entire Pacific Fleet out of the picture and with that "hopefully" win a War. In another words, oil was catalist to war. Choosing Pearl Harbor was to win the war (nothing to do with gaining access to oil).

 

[Latinoman]

please don't try to "educate" a college instructor on this subject in an internet forum, it's embarassing.

Typical arrogance from Academia.

Listen, no college "instructor" can educate a man that has over 15 years experience in international energy issues and in addition served in the military.

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

The U.S. is also the country that gives the most (aid, $$$, food, etc.) too. When something goes terribly wrong via man made or natural disasters...the one contributing the most is the U.S.

Oh yes and what MONEY are the U.S. using? wait borrowed money? AKA China and Japan's money, those countries are proving US with money and Bush is spending it ALL on Iraq War. Before Bush the US treasury was in the positive, now the US owes 3 trillion in foreign debts. There goes social security, pensions and welfare!

So techniqually it's not THEIR money. Actually UN is providing most of the funding, US seems to be giving the most, but if you combine the sum of all the other major countries it's insignificant.

Let's not forget about the 650,000 civilians killed due to collateral damage during the "liberation" of the Iraq War. Iraq is a MESS, civil war has started few years ago and now Bush wants to start a war against Iran, even though the army, navy and airforce is depleated. I'm pretty sure the DRAFT is goign to start again and people will realize how screwed up US policies has become.

Other countries like China, Russia and Europe are building armies so that they can check US in the future, cuz they have a crazy president who has too much power.

 

[sparky0000]

Yeah, I just did. Somebody made an typical anti-American comment ripped straight from moveon.org, and I shut it down. What about that doesn't show how I think? The far-left is like a cancer that has metastasized into the deepest reaches of America and is infecting people's brains. Look at guys like sparky2000 and Last Man Standing. If you don't expose the problem soon, we'll be speaking Spanish as our national language in the next 15 years. Yes, LMS!!!!!!! I must flee from these Nazi white racist devils!!!!! FLEEE!!!! FLEE!!! FLEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Far-Left? Would you please get an education. LMS seems very "Far-Right". I guess Pat Buchanan is "Far-Left" to you as well? Pretty much everything I am saying as been echoed by Pat Buchanan.
http://www.amconmag.com/03_24_03/cover.html - A great Buchanan piece on what a NEOCON is and why they are dangerous. If you call Buchanan a liberal or a "lefty" you have some serious problems.


Indeed, it is the charge of “anti-Semitism” itself that is toxic. For this venerable slander is designed to nullify public discourse by smearing and intimidating foes and censoring and blacklisting them and any who would publish them. Neocons say we attack them because they are Jewish. We do not. We attack them because their warmongering threatens our country, even as it finds a reliable echo in Ariel Sharon.

You are a NEOCON. These are your leaders...
Who are the neoconservatives? The first generation were ex-liberals, socialists, and Trotskyites, boat-people from the McGovern revolution who rafted over to the GOP at the end of conservatism’s long march to power with Ronald Reagan in 1980.

You just want to believe that "they" hate us for our freedom. Even "they" have countered that by asking why "they" didn't attack Sweden.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm
This is contrary to Bush's claim that we hate freedom. Let him tell us why we did not strike Sweden, for example.

Speaking Spanish? Uh, I would learn that language if the girls weren't so ugly in Mexico. Terrible genetics in Mexico. I will continue to work on my Russian.

 

[bigjohnson]

Before Bush the US treasury was in the positive, now the US owes 3 trillion in foreign debts.

Hahahahaha. Idiot. Look at deficit vs. debt sometime. The US has been in debt non-stop for decades.


EDITED: Added link for the google impaired.

 

[seanchai]

Yeah, I just did. Somebody made an typical anti-American comment ripped straight from moveon.org, and I shut it down. What about that doesn't show how I think? The far-left is like a cancer that has metastasized into the deepest reaches of America and is infecting people's brains. Look at guys like sparky2000 and Last Man Standing. If you don't expose the problem soon, we'll be speaking Spanish as our national language in the next 15 years.

Throttle stated a fact - many other countries give much more as a percentage of GDP. It's not like moveon.org has a monopoly on facts, right? I believe Fox News lays claim to that.

I don't think Spanish is gonna be our national language anytime soon. It's not like non-English speakers are pervading our government, reaching the highest levels of power. In fact, I don't think there are any NON-English speakers anywhere in the federal government.

 

[Throttle]

Typical arrogance from Academia.

Listen, no college "instructor" can educate a man that has over 15 years experience in international energy issues and in addition served in the military.

i'm not try to educate anyone, but you did tell me to pick up a history book before entering this discussion. i find that rude and arrogant, to say the least.

 

[Throttle]

Oh yes and what MONEY are the U.S. using? wait borrowed money? AKA China and Japan's money, those countries are proving US with money and Bush is spending it ALL on Iraq War. Before Bush the US treasury was in the positive, now the US owes 3 trillion in foreign debts. There goes social security, pensions and welfare!

there are lots of justifiable angry things to say about our dear president & his policies, but you can't place the entire blame on him for either the federal or foreign debt (which you appear to be conflating). you are also conflating annual budget deficits with the federal debt. there is a germ of truth in your argument but you're undermining yourself with the rest of it.

 

[sparky0000]

Admit the facts. The NEOCONS are nothing more than a bunch of old Trotskyites. Buchanan was right on the money.

Yes, Mexico has bad genetics for pretty girls. Even the famous Italian singer Tiziano Ferro and the even more famous soccer star Francesco Totti have made comments on Italian TV about it. Any guy on here who has been places will admit that there is a lot of truth to that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiziano_Ferro
During the 2006 world cup, Italian footballer Francesco Totti was interviewed by the Mexican media on his thoughts regarding Ferro's statements about Mexican women having moustaches. He mischeviously responded "They should wax."
http://youtube.com/watch?v=dakunpgK1j0
You can't say that on American TV!!! That European/Mexican woman interviewer is an idiot who can't even speak Italian. Como?? That is a town not an Italian word.

 

[Ricky]

women

A boss of mine always joked that due to Chinas infanticide problem with female children that they would one day have a war over Pvssy. Either that or all end up gay!

 

[belividere]

At the very least, one thing that I'm happy about is that no one who is pushing an extreme in this thread will ever be in a position to actually sanction war.

Deus, not that you are going to listen, but I've seen you arguing too many pointless arguments on here. I used to be good friends with a guy who loved to argue, didn't matter if he was right or not but he stood his ground and always acted like he was right. I'm not saying that you don't have valid points but the attitude gets really old really quick.

About a year or so ago I wasted 20 minutes of my life posting a response to a thread (from a highschooler) about how the world will self-destruct in 10 yrs. I wish that I hadn't because nobody knows what will happen in 20 yrs, whether I backed up my point with validity or not.

I'm not going to get sucked into the whole online debate I know that I'm right thing with this but I have the credentials for physical data to back up what I speak about on here. If people disagree I could care less. You act like a martyr and dont provide any facts. In this debate where there are a number of obvious facts you loss credibility.

 

[ExploringOne]

Neither. Past, present, and future wars will still be fought for the same basic reasons;

1. Real Estate
2. Religion/Philosophy
3. Money

Usually every war boils down to a combination of these three reasons.

 

[Last Man Standing]

At the very least, one thing that I'm happy about is that no one who is pushing an extreme in this thread will ever be in a position to actually sanction war.

Deus, not that you are going to listen, but I've seen you arguing too many pointless arguments on here. I used to be good friends with a guy who loved to argue, didn't matter if he was right or not but he stood his ground and always acted like he was right. I'm not saying that you don't have valid points but the attitude gets really old really quick.

About a year or so ago I wasted 20 minutes of my life posting a response to a thread (from a highschooler) about how the world will self-destruct in 10 yrs. I wish that I hadn't because nobody knows what will happen in 20 yrs, whether I backed up my point with validity or not.

I'm not going to get sucked into the whole online debate I know that I'm right thing with this but I have the credentials for physical data to back up what I speak about on here. If people disagree I could care less. You act like a martyr and dont provide any facts. In this debate where there are a number of obvious facts you loss credibility.

Deus, come join us - get away from the dark side and come into the light!!!

 

[Rebound Material]

A boss of mine always joked that due to Chinas infanticide problem with female children that they would one day have a war over Pvssy. Either that or all end up gay!

yup, and I wouldnt be surprised when it does happen...so we better grab some b!tches NOW!

 

[sparky0000]

Um, where did I ever give you the indication that I fancy myself a martyr? I live in the richest, most powerful country on Earth. I just finished a big meal, and am going to go to sleep in my nice, warm bed while Fox News plays in the background. I have a better life than 90% of people in this world. There's nothing really to complain about. Not REALLY.
(

And yet you still can't find the time to get on an airplane and learn about this world that you claim to be an expert on.

Deus ex Pianoforte making friends on vacation??? :rock:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsRycBM8RpU&mode=related&search=

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

Um, where did I ever give you the indication that I fancy myself a martyr? I live in the richest, most powerful country on Earth. I just finished a big meal, and am going to go to sleep in my nice, warm bed while Fox News plays in the background. I have a better life than 90% of people in this world. There's nothing really to complain about. Not REALLY.

Now. What have I argued thus far without backing it up with facts? I am genuinely asking because I always try to make sure that I'm not spewing hot air, as I've seen way too many extremists do this all day long while the MSNBC watching, New York Times reading, BBC listening crowd nods their head in agreement with genuine concern on their brainwashed faces.

That's a bold statement you made there. It's only fair that you back it up.



No. You hurt my feelings when you called me a Nazi devil.

Wow you just lost ALL RESPECT I had for you. When you mean you live in the richest country.. you mean CHINA right? If you haven't realized USA is in serious DEBT after Bush became president. Did you know that Fox News is one of the most biased news networks and it's pure sh*t too, they rather cover about Hollywood BS than Iraq War. Well you prob won't care since your a cluleless republican, you probably believe that the USA won both Vietnam and Iraq War. That's why you still believe in that Christian stuff... Those two signs are dangerous since it means you have no contact with reality. I bet 10 bucks that you love Bill O'Rielly cuz he's such a "Patriot" even if he called the mexicans "w*tb*cks." He's a total moron and stoops to the same level as Rosy O'Donald. Why do you hate New York Times, BBC and prob CNN? Is it because they actually COVER what's going around in the world instead of doing stories that the sponser wants. lol You're a total joke and a typical ignorant American that's been brainwashed by "nationalism."

 

[bigjohnson]

If you haven't realized USA is in serious DEBT after Bush became president. ..... a total joke and a typical ignorant American...."

Pot calls kettle black, film at 11:00.

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

Pot calls kettle black, film at 11:00.

The Current national debt owed by the USA is well over 8 TRILLION dollars, approximatly $8,128,207,427,249 and RISING. But don't take my word for it, check out the constantly updated and award winning USA Debt Clock. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

So, with the current USA population at about 295,734,134, a quick division tells me this works out to $27,484 USD for every man, woman, and child in the United States. Of course, by the time you read this it'll probably be over $27,500 per capita...

In comparison, Canada's national debt is a "mere" (or $690,726,990,157 USD), AND FALLING. Keep in mind that Canada have a much smaller population, sitting at around 32,805,041, so our per capita debt load, USD is around $21,055.

 

[bigjohnson]

The Current national debt owed by the USA is well over 8 TRILLION dollars .....

You said "since Bush" ... please explain how 8 trillion is debt was accrued in less than a decade?

 

[PeterNorthisawesome]

You said "since Bush" ... please explain how 8 trillion is debt was accrued in less than a decade?

Actually I meant since Bush the debt has increased AGAIN and he has done nothing to make it better. It still doesn't change the fact that's he's the worst president.