waiter flirts hard with my date

[Alle_Gory]

The tip is for good customer service, obviously the waiter didn't do a great job.

No tip.

 

[synergy1]

This situation reminds me of a scene from the Tucker max movie. I love the reference to the word 'hero' which parallels RT's captain Save-a-ho. yes its just a movie, but most people who tend to start **** don't expect to get it thrown back at them. When you do, people would rather forget about it than push the issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2N776xj0S8

 

[Atom Smasher]

I'll give my confession as a former bartender/waiter.

Maybe it's because I was leagues ahead of my co-workers but I would NEVER... EVER flirt with someone who was out on a date with someone.

I'd do the complete OPPOSITE.
I'd say almost every single time I could spot who was on their first date with someone and I'd try my BEST to make the guy look GOOD. Why? Not only is it GREAT service but I knew I was going to secure a GOOD tip as well.

And come on, we're man, we should be helping each other out NOT stepping on each other.

I would have NEVER crossed that line with someone looking to have a nice time with a new person or even someone they've been with for a while. I was at my best when I was making someone else feel like they were a higher value than they truly were. There was no greater pleasure than to be the John Stockton of the dating world.

And like Robert said, he's NEVER going back there. That's the LAST thing I want. I wanted to be the bartender that all guys took their dates to. "I know this place where the service is GREAT. Kailex works there."

Sets up some social proof and some DHV.


Now, with that said, if I WERE to have done anything that was in the OP, I REALLY would hope that the guy would knock me off. I've seen it happen a LOT. You have no idea how many times I saw a fellow bartender or waiter get pissed off because they were trying to flirt with a girl on a date and the guy put him in his place. They would come over to me moaning and complaining about some guy who was talking smack, I'd look over and that guy was obviously on a date... I'd ask them what the hell they were thinking.

And I'll agree with another point... he's just a WAITER. Yes, he has her captivated for just a second, but remember you are supposed to be the focus of the date.

Robert, to be honest, I would go back to that restaurant next time and see if he pulls the same stunt.

What I DON'T advocate is talking to the manager and getting your waiter fixed or scolded. It'll only bring problems and essentially DLV yourself. What if the manager switches your waiter. Your date will start asking why he got switched and what are you going to say?

That's why reminding him that he's nothing more than the guy that is serving YOU is GREAT.

But, after re-reading the OP, I AM wondering... why was DINNER involved in a date??? This is one of the risks you run when you're having food as a date. I usually go against having dinner for a first date or any date, to be honest.

I normally don't quote an entire long post but I had to here.

Kailex, +1 for the first half of your post. This is common, or rather "uncommon" sense. I too wouldn't dream of disrespecting a man like that waiter did.

I disagree, however, about not talking to the manager. If I were disrespected like that, I would indeed have spoken to the manager and changed waiters. She would have asked why a different waiter, and I would have said, "I didn't like him and I found him disrespectful" and then immediately changed the subject. She would learn that I don't tolerate disrespect. If she pursued, I wouldn't answer any further questions. Always remember, guys, that you don't have to answer every question she asks. I have found there is a lot of power in disregarding a small percentage of questions. It really does display value.

I have no problem at all with getting the guy in trouble with his manager. His behavior was entirely out of line and unacceptable. He does it because he gets away with it. With me it would stop. It's my date, my dinner, my frame. No man had the right to disrupt my evening, and I will handle the matter. A guy like that will only comprehend directness. All those subtle hints wouldn't change his behavior. Direct accountability to his customers and his employer might. He should experience the fallout of his actions.

 

[2crudedudes]

I love this. I'm pretty sure I've been in a similar situation before and I'm pretty sure I mishandled it just the same. I have a number of questions and/or concerns.

First, as I've heard many horror stories from people that work in the food industry, I'd be very wary of making the waiter feel inferior for fear of having my steak rubbed on someone's balls (exaggeration). Is degradation really the appropriate course of action here?

Second, wouldn't demonstrating your "Alphaness" be more appropriate on the girl rather than the guy? Wouldn't you want to try to keep her interested in you by disregarding the guy and just overall being yourself (the better catch, if you're doing it right)?

Last, I usually tip based on the experience provided by the server. I will usually tip about 10% if the basics are covered. However, at any time I feel like anything was missing or off, I begin to sort of deduct from the tip. If I feel particularly awkward or dissatisfied, then on that rare occasion I will leave no tip.

A penny for a tip is disrespectful, so I wouldn't go so far as doing that except on a rare occasion when a server is particularly rude or careless. I wouldn't want to show that the guy got to me by only leaving him a penny. Besides, leaving no tip could easily be passed off as an oversight to your date so as to not come off as insecure, versus having to explain why you only left a penny.

 

[Trader]

I love this. I'm pretty sure I've been in a similar situation before and I'm pretty sure I mishandled it just the same. I have a number of questions and/or concerns.

First, as I've heard many horror stories from people that work in the food industry, I'd be very wary of making the waiter feel inferior for fear of having my steak rubbed on someone's balls (exaggeration). Is degradation really the appropriate course of action here?

Degradation is more of a last resort when he simply does not respond to your firm insistence to "tone it down." Remember, you need to be able to kill when necessary.

Second, wouldn't demonstrating your "Alphaness" be more appropriate on the girl rather than the guy? Wouldn't you want to try to keep her interested in you by disregarding the guy and just overall being yourself (the better catch, if you're doing it right)?

If she is blantantly flirting with him, then that obviously signals problems with your relationship, handle that accordingly.

But if you recall the story, the waiter was the one who was initiating and flirting back. It's not like she was flirting with him and he was just trying to stay professional. Far from it. Therefore he is a nuisance and he must be removed from the situation.

Last, I usually tip based on the experience provided by the server. I will usually tip about 10% if the basics are covered. However, at any time I feel like anything was missing or off, I begin to sort of deduct from the tip. If I feel particularly awkward or dissatisfied, then on that rare occasion I will leave no tip.

A penny for a tip is disrespectful, so I wouldn't go so far as doing that except on a rare occasion when a server is particularly rude or careless. I wouldn't want to show that the guy got to me by only leaving him a penny. Besides, leaving no tip could easily be passed off as an oversight to your date so as to not come off as insecure, versus having to explain why you only left a penny.

Leaving a penny for a tip is disrespectful, and that's the point. It is to pour emotional salt over his wound and rub it in until it stings. Remember, it's not about being aggressive per se, it's about boundaries. Guys will often try to be as disrespectful as possible, why? Because they want to see how much they can get away with. You as the true Alpha do not disrespect others unprovoked, but when other guys disrespect you, you MUST be ready to kill him and trample his grave.

Remember: 'It takes strong men to restrain and control other men.'

 

[Atom Smasher]

Leaving a penny for a tip is disrespectful, and that's the point. It is to pour emotional salt over his wound and rub it in until it stings. Remember, it's not about being aggressive per se, it's about boundaries. Guys will often try to be as disrespectful as possible, why? Because they want to see how much they can get away with. You as the true Alpha do not disrespect others unprovoked, but when other guys disrespect you, you MUST be ready to kill him and trample his grave.

This makes lots of sense. We train others to treat us a certain way, whether with respect or without; No?

 

[Trader]

Leaving a penny for a tip is disrespectful, and that's the point. It is to pour emotional salt over his wound and rub it in until it stings. Remember, it's not about being aggressive per se, it's about boundaries. Guys will often try to be as disrespectful as possible, why? Because they want to see how much they can get away with. You as the true Alpha do not disrespect others unprovoked, but when other guys disrespect you, you MUST be ready to kill him and trample his grave.

Remember: 'It takes strong men to restrain and control other men.'

This makes lots of sense. We train others to treat us a certain way, whether with respect or without; No?

As an aside, this is why there is so much bloodshed and war in the Old Testament of the Bible. How can God be love and yet kill other people? If someone is trying to kill you and he is hell-bent on doing so, then all bets are off, and you are more than free to defend yourself.

Likewise in this situation, the waiter is showing no respect, you respectfully ask him to *check himself.* He refuses. You now have free-reign to send him to the guillotine. He needs to be *put in his place* and you should exhibit no mercy when doing so.

Mercy only applies when the counterparty asks for lenience, in other words he is repentant.

The waiter is unrepentant thus throw him in the fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[5string]

Tell him to pick up the crumbs off the floor. When he does, tell him he missed some. Then tell him to get you another napkin and another beer.

 

[Chromeo]

I find this thread really interesting.

First off my opinion of the waiter deserving a tip is more than just his ability to bring you your food. If a waiter can do this politely with a smile on his face, he deserves at least 10%. No tips, in the service industry are also referred to as gratuity, (gracious, thank you for being in our good graces, thank you for gracing us). This guy was disrespecting you on your date, he definitely deserves less than a gracious tip. As Kailex said, he should have been elevating your date experience, thats what any good waiter will do and more often than not he will receive a gracious tip.

Now to the point of him disrespecting you. I cannot fault the guy for trying. Again, put yourself in his shoes, you see an attractive woman your interested in that has a little sparkle in her eye when she looks at you... what else are you gonna do? As a man you go after something your interested in, albeit not professional by any means.

You getting upset over this is understandable, it is your ego that is recognizing this as disrespect. Im starting to think that the ego however is whats so detrimental to the dj mindset.

you had three options here
1. tell the guy off (what your ego wants to do, you will not be disrespected, but you can come off as confident, or you can come off as insecure needing to feed your ego)
2. except it, not care and move on (set them up even, your date will be thinkging "wtf he's just gonna pass on me?")
3. roll over and die << essentially you did this

Personally I would like to tell this guy off, (I like the "hey champ can you refill my water") but thats my ego thinking, hey why arent I getting respect here, I dont like it, I want respect back, I am your ego, feed me. Now thats not saying you should never be ready for confrontation, if someone is trying to kill you or continues to mess with you after a verbal warning a punch in the face usually does the trick, but this is not feeding your ego, this is commanding respect and not being a pushover.

This however may be due to a weak ego (bare with me im still trying to figure this out for myself) Your ego is essentially whining "heeeey respect me"

Now what james bond would have said if a waiter was hitting on his date (which would not ever happen are you kiding) and his date was reciprocating
"wow you too have a great report, im going to go a head and leave you two love birds to writing each others names in sauce, farewell" This is a master Ego at work, bond would not stand for this. In the movie his "ego" is a topic of discussion between him and M. Now if the waiter was hitting on her and she were not reciprocating, bond would have grabbed this guy by the tie and said get lost or possibly even put a round through this guys brain stem with his silenced PPK. He would still probably leave a $500 tip but the guys dead so its just insult to injury at that point.

point is, its hard to get over and manage your ego (or strengthen it, not sure which is the case, leaning toward strengthening) but either way, your a man, make a decision and stick by it. Also, you better make sure a girl deserves to have dinner with you before you take her. Hitman, not a very good movie, but timothy olyphant is such a badass, he keeps his girl in the trunk of his car at first, taking her to dinner is the last thing he does.

 

[Robert28]

well there's a new twist to this story. i log on facebook this morning and see that the girl i went out with the other night is now in a relationship.haha talk about feeling like a fool! i spend money on dinner, get insulted by our waiter, and Monday she's all of a sudden magically dating another guy.haha it's not the waiter, before you ask.lol i just don't get why she went out with me to begin with if she's talking to some other guy that apprently is serious enough to be in a relationship with? i know shes seeing if i was better, but couldn't she have somehow mentioned it?

 

[Kailex]

well there's a new twist to this story. i log on facebook this morning and see that the girl i went out with the other night is now in a relationship.haha talk about feeling like a fool! i spend money on dinner, get insulted by our waiter, and Monday she's all of a sudden magically dating another guy.haha it's not the waiter, before you ask.lol i just don't get why she went out with me to begin with if she's talking to some other guy that apprently is serious enough to be in a relationship with? i know shes seeing if i was better, but couldn't she have somehow mentioned it?

She wanted a free dinner.
That's why.

There's nothing more to it than that.
You two made plans, dinner was mentioned, and she thought: Sweet, free food.

And that's why you never take out women to dinner on a first date, or first FEW dates. If she's really interested, she'll be interested whether there's food or not, preferrably... NOT.

 

[Robert28]

She wanted a free dinner.
That's why.

There's nothing more to it than that.
You two made plans, dinner was mentioned, and she thought: Sweet, free food.

And that's why you never take out women to dinner on a first date, or first FEW dates. If she's really interested, she'll be interested whether there's food or not, preferrably... NOT.

i get what you're saying, and believe me i've tried to go on other dates besides dinner, it's just that 90% of women don't seem to receptive to anything other then dinner first and foremost. i know their interest level has alot to do with it because if their really interested theyd go anywhere you ask, but the reality is most want that first free meal. i've tried the "hey why dont you come over and watch a movie and hangout" line, and it used to work like a charm but nowdays it seems like thats the LAST thing they want to do. if you dont take them out they think youre cheap and a loser, but a cheap loser with more money then the loser who just spent $50 on dinner for someone elses g/f.lol

 

[Kailex]

i get what you're saying, and believe me i've tried to go on other dates besides dinner, it's just that 90% of women don't seem to receptive to anything other then dinner first and foremost. i know their interest level has alot to do with it because if their really interested theyd go anywhere you ask, but the reality is most want that first free meal. i've tried the "hey why dont you come over and watch a movie and hangout" line, and it used to work like a charm but nowdays it seems like thats the LAST thing they want to do. if you dont take them out they think youre cheap and a loser, but a cheap loser with more money then the loser who just spent $50 on dinner for someone elses g/f.lol

Robert, if they don't want to go out with you on anything that ISN'T a dinner, then they are already showing you that they aren't worthy of going out with you. Don't go out on a date just to say that you went out on a date. If she doesn't say YES to YOUR date idea, then that alone should give you reason enough to disqualify her and move on.

You shouldn't be doing what they want to just because they don't want to do anything else.

You should be doing what you want because you want to do it. If they don't want to, find someone else who does.

What you are essentially saying is that you are identifying the gold diggers and then... rewarding their behavior with a free meal. It's right there, right in front of your eyes.

It's YOUR version of a sh!t test and you are giving them a free pass.
If they think you are a loser for not taking them out to dinner, then you are more than right in thinking they are nothing but gold diggers and opportunists for wanting you to spend 60 bucks on a stranger.

 

[Rescue Mission]

She wanted a free dinner.
That's why.

There's nothing more to it than that.
You two made plans, dinner was mentioned, and she thought: Sweet, free food.

And that's why you never take out women to dinner on a first date, or first FEW dates. If she's really interested, she'll be interested whether there's food or not, preferrably... NOT.

My advice from page 2 of this thread -


#2 - WHY ARE YOU AT A RESTAURANT ON A DATE???? You want to get laid right? If so, then why are you wasting time eating, and then paying for HER?? Where is the sexual confidence? You realize, that you can get any girl you want to have sex with you without dinner.......dinner is NEVER necessary. Good job wasting $$ there, don't make the same mistake again! Next time, go over to her place with a bottle wine and drink there, in privacy, where getting laid is 10 times easier than it is in public - common sense!


There is a reason that you don't take a girl out to dinner AND pay for that dinner - and congratulations, you have officially learned this the hard way.

 

[terran2k]

your inaction is so weak. he disrespected you and you put up with it just because you didnt want to seem insecure or whatever bull**** you've read on some site Im sure. You got to stand up for yourself sometimes, cant keep brushing **** off like it doesnt bother you. it'll destroy your self confidence.

I remember there was a post not to long ago. guy #1 dating some chic, guy #2 also dating the same chic. chic stood up guy #2 to go out with guy #1. guy #2 calls chic out in a rage for her disrespect. guy #1 plays the aloof game. chic dumps guy #1 and ****s the hell outta guy #2.
I'm not saying be an angry guy, but definitely don't let ****ers disrespect you like that.

also, there's alot of negative thinking on this board, gotta watch for it.

if she went out with you, it's because she thought you were better than her bf or whatever he is to her. But you blew it by being passive. So her bf made her feel more secure, hence you're out the door and he stays.
she didn't go out with you just to get a free dinner, thinking like that will destroy you.

 

[Falcon25]

I will say this again;

Alcohol equals sex.
Dinner equals sleep.

 

[Robert28]

i guess there's no better way to learn a lesson then the hard way. which is what i did. looking back on the date there were some red flags that she put up, and i saw them, i just ignored them. things like sayingevery guy she's dated she's been hurt, wishes there was a guy out there willing to be friends first, she mentioned a few guys she'd been burned by but she never once mentioned this dude. no "yeah i'm sorta seeing this other guy" nothing like that. today when i saw the in a relationship thing i have to admit i was shocked. she never mentioned this guy AT ALL, but yet mentioned other guys she'd dated but it didn't workout. she brought up that subject somehow and i tried to revert it from that, but we kept going back to the ho hum story of hers about how shed gotten burned, how she wants to meet a guy that wants to be friends first. i know girls have options, but i mean damn, don't ask a guy out basically when you're on the verge of dating someone else and not tell him about it! it's like i'm standing on the tracks and the trains coming but she didn't say "look out!"

 

[tihash]

My thoughts

1. As discussed at length above, no dinner on a first date. However, this could have easily happened at a bar.

2. I haven't stiffed a waiter in over a decade, but if this happened to me I sure would leave the guy zero tip. It is entirely justified as he is INTENTIONALLY disrespecting you.

3. All in all, I think this is an excellent thing to happen on a first date. If your girl is all giggles and making eyes at the waiter, go hard for the f-close and never see her again, whether she gives it up or not. If your girl is embarrassed and ignoring the waiter's advances (like Jophil's girl), then you have yourself a respectful women on your hands.

 

[Rescue Mission]

I will say this again;

Alcohol equals sex.
Dinner equals sleep.

This should be stickied, because the SAME EXACT GODDAMN MISTAKE is being made over and over by TONS of guys.

They go to dinner with women they haven't fvcked, and they don't even know WHY they are going to dinner.

They have been mis-trained by their parents/society to act like dinner-loving and dinner-paying pvssies with every single girl they meet. Then they wonder why sex is so hard to come by

 

[nismo-4]

My 1,200th post here!!!

OP, Rescue told you don't take a girl out to dinner on a first date. Why did you do that? To prove you had money or could provide? That is one offense you plead guilty to.

Falcon25 has said it before! Alcohol for the sex! Dinner for the sex with your hand!

Why didn't you become the alpha male? You had a chance to make him the show for your date. Humiliation! But you put up with the competition and you lacked the testicular fortitude to battle! That's another offense the jury has found you guilty of.

If a girl is pretty, other guys are gonna hit on her, no matter what. When you get a girl, you gotta fight to keep her. She chose you. You failed by being passive. Now she found someone who stepped up to the plate. She's probably f**king that waiter as you read this cuz he had the balls and he beat you.

Every female got a pool of men to choose from. Not every guy has a pool of women to choose from. Shocked? Don't be. Women can get in a relationship easily, and they don't get hurt when they get dumped. She says she's hurt, but trust me, she ain't.

Sage Kailex is totally right, she thought free dinner and you gave her that pass! Don't do that. There are many other date ideas that are cheap, if not free. Try a picnic or a walk in the park. Dinner & a movie equals boring, uncreative AFC. Nothing attractive there.

It's dangerous to go alone! Take this.

Why the hell didn't you just get some wine or some kind of liquor and have her just come over (or go by her place) and since there's little to no pressure from other people looking at you weird or hitting on your girl, the focus is only on you two. The lay will be a lot easier. You could've even cooked for her! If there's no lay, at least you get a homecooked meal out of it and you saved hella money. Then being able to cook, girls like that sh*t.

Judge Nismo would slap you with a hefty fine, but that dinner date took care of it already. So did the girl getting in another relationship with another guy.

Aazman, slaog, Falcon25, Kailex, Terran2k, Rescue Mission, and myself have given great advice so you don't do this dumb sh*t again.

Don't reward bad behavior. I hope Pedestals R' Us will give you a full refund on the one you bou- oh yeah. Put money in the pedestal-it never comes back. No refunds.

Dinner on a first date? I'm disappointed in you.

Case closed.