This is embarrassing but F^ck it. Thats what we are here for.

[salinechow]

What do you mean you win the resident's hearts and minds? With a bunch of flowers? How do you know you've won their hearts and minds? Because of one phone call?

I accede on the 'love' part. Although perhaps desire is a better word. I am fully willing to accede on the above statement too if you can come up with a persuasive argument.

She showed me the text message group chat of her family fawning over the gesture. Her mother, father, sister, and brother in law all excited for her and rooting for me. Her mother trying to count how many there were. Her father saying I was a keeper. Her sister saying she couldn’t be coy about our relationship anymore. The girl herself exclaiming she talks about me with her family. Like I said if you read it. If and when things start to develop, I will be greeted warmly by all. When I am not around, they will ask about the guy who sent her flowers. Hows it going with us, when are we seeing each other again. If our dates continue to go as amazingly as they have, when she comes home blushed with her neck red from me sucking on it, people in her household will be happy for her and it will make her blush. As opposed to her skulking in at 4am and being out with some unknown shady character. When she eventually sleep out with me, either on vacation or at my house, her family will justify it as young love and not sluty party girl. They will constantly codify the relationship with me as opposed to making her explain it or feel weird about it. Don’t you see man. Hearts and minds. Before the US invades a country they always drop flyers first. They attempt to win the hearts and minds of the country before they occupy. Less resistance and more co operation from non combatants. An extreme example, but it illustrates the idea.




I think because of the nature of this forum and the questions I have asked and the experiences I have shared I been through; I talk much less about my successes with woman and way more about my failures. I cannot be more clear here; woman fall and have fallen for me my whole life. Desire is a much better word. Love can very quickly turn to Friendzone. Desire not as easily. Im not sure how I can persuade you to believe where I am confident in this thing, again, especially because I usually share more of my weak spot around here. I can only illustrate my experiences.

Any woman that shares more than five minutes of her time with me will "desire" more time with me. I am smart, perceptive, bold, charming, halfway good-looking, an expert conversationalist, interesting and a natural leader. My cold approaches are pretty good, my frame is usually pretty good after the cold approach, my phone game is very strong, and my dates are awesome. I have a lot of friends in all walks of life as resources to make me look stellar on the first couple of dates out. Usually if there is even 20% interest in me I can escalate that interest and desire quickly and efficiently.

Now just for balance. MY text game is pretty weak. My congruency needs work. (Because everything I sad above works well, I tend to let it all hang out much to soon, I lose mystery and mystique quickly.) I do become attached pretty quickly as well. And my indifference is still pretty weak. These are old habits that die hard because of my successes.

You see, I would target a girl( usually right after a LTR) an make her fall for me. Then because she responded, right away get into another LTR. Never thinking about whether or not is was a girl I wanted to be in an LTR with. Codependencey issues, I see that now. Validation was all I needed to feel that the girl was worthy. So instead of vetting a girl over the course of "dating" I loved and made them love too soon and worked out issues later inside the relationship. Ugh. Pains me to see things for what they are now. LTR to LTR my whole life. Dating was never something I did. Love was all I did. Desire, sure, in the beginning of course. It was blind desire though and short lived. Blue pill really all the way.

So, now I date, I usually go on at least one date a week. Some are first dates, some are long play chicks, some are strong options and plates, and I sprinkle in the FB when I can.

I will tell you with full confidence. I dismiss more girls than dismiss me. I can see things more clearly now because of this site. I realize I dont need to be so loyal to keep everyone around. I also realize I don’t care when a chick isn’t that into me. EXCEPT!

And here is my big problem. When I really like a girl. LIke you called me on. Desire. I can do the love thing. Desire and congruency with chicks I really dig,(no more settling for immediate LTR with the first girl I target) is a weak point for me. Coming here has made me value myself more, be less co dependent, learn to enjoy single life(still hard after 17 years of LTRs) and most of all target more attractive(to me) and high value(to me) women.

So... Yes, if I get this new "onitis" to give me to let her guard down a bit(and she is) I can make, yes make, her love me. I know I sound like a deluded pompous a$$, but I am sure of it. Can I keep her desire though, stay out of the "I love him, he is a great BF, perfect, the best, but I just don’t feel that spark Like we used to have" LJBF death trap? You know, I am not entirely sure. And as far as the other women that love me right now, the ones I have no need to come here and talk about, will they satisfy if I bomb out on the ONE I want, maybe, but probably not.

Here is the key to my walk of progress of DJ life and all the good qualities that I dont need work on. I must learn to treat the women I desire most, with the same attitude that I treat the ones I could care less about. If I can get there I will be a very very dangerous individual to the opposite sex and will pull 9s and 10s all day long. Alas, though, all things being honest, I am not even close yet. So here I shall remain, your friend and comrade, learning from one another to be better versions of ourselves every day.

 

[salinechow]

You sound like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_4tSidyFtA

Make others laugh at my expence! Good we need a little levity around here.

I guess in type I do sound a little bit like him.

He is smoother and better looking though. :flowers:

 

[OnTheRun]

Actually, I think you analysis is mostly correct. I would have concluded the same if I was reading what I wrote as you. However, because not every detail is shared none can really see the situation but me. Also, I am starting to see a pattern around here as it pertains to me. Because I post wordy and detailed, everyone thinks I am overthinking everything. Somewhat true, but, not as entirely as it may seem.

You only over-analyse something when it is not intuitive. If you cannot describe something simply, chances are it is not intuitive. If this isn't intuitive, then it's because you are locked in a game and you are not (completely, at least) winning and because you don't KNOW (as opposed to think) what to do. I'm overly analytical like you are but that can simply make you more adept at rationalising the wrong course of action.

Consider the fact that many of the girls you have "played" have not had this girl's skills nor have they had you emotionally invested.

Re the comment in bold. Everyone in love always thinks they are special, their situation is unique, and that nobody can possibly understand the love these two snowflakes share. We've all done it. You've posted long detailed posts of what you've done but are telling us it is the details that you've left out that are the important ones! Because you're special and we just wouldn't understand them, right?

Also- family approval means virtually nothing. It sounds like she lives with her family? Of course they've heard of you, she's not going to admit she's leaving the house to see a "player" because he's a good shag but isn't relationship material and she isn't looking for a relationship. A girl's family falls in love with her guy surprisingly easily I have found.

Just my 2 cents though mate, I have made the same mistakes (IMO) as you and may well do so in the future. As always, good luck, but I think you will soon read this back and realise you're wearing extremely rose-tinted (or should that be roses-tinted) glasses!

 

[guru1000]

Wise word from Espi.

Pay attention only to her behavior--never her words--for the message. Who did she spend V-day with, you or her friends? This is the message.

I'm curious how long before this "pretty" rapport ends. I give it 2-3 weeks should you remain subjugated within HER frame. And I have a hunch, you will.

 

[stevo]

You were warned not to send flowers, you did it anyways.

This "bliss" would last for a few days and you might get some "payback" seks but if you love yourself like you should, you'd start withdrawing from this girl.

She's leaving for 5-6wks and is still moving 3months right after and you're this invested? daydreaming about being in good terms with the fam, who gives a fcuk, more importantly why do you give too many fcuks??

She honestly is bringing out the beta in you.

She honestly is moving you from lover to a dude she already has in the bag, not good.

She honestly is not prioritizing you.

She honestly is leading the relationship thinking she already got you.

Fcuk this girl, Go silent, Fcuk her again. Reverse the game and cut that texting to bare minimum. Remember If you're not texting to fcuk, you shouldnt be texting at all.

I'd hate to see this not work out for you bro.

Again, you've been schooled. There's a pole ahead of you, crash into it, if you choose to.

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You all are very negative. In fact, it isn't negative, it is just that the interpreter will view it as negative. And that causes mistakes and mess ups.
Saline, the Laws of Attraction are in your favor.

You see, I was very right and very wrong when I said long ago that I needed to end our relationship and we were incompatible. I was right that our relationship needed to end, but compatibility was always there, and I always knew it, no matter how much I tried to deny it.

The point is, I have only recently really, truly, confronted the actual issue at hand, which is this: WHY did I like her so much? Why do I feel she is without flaw, even though I know logically that she OF COURSE CANNOT BE PERFECT? Passing her off as "not significant" is DENIAL. I know that the DJs here will tell you again and again that she's "just another fish in the sea."

It is true, but there is SOMETHING, or many things, about her that is very special, and I say you should not overlook that. It will always come back to haunt you until you face it. Embrace it. Use that intuition to discover WHY you like her the way you do. WHAT is it about her that turns you into a simpering AFC no matter how suave you are with the other girls?

Do you not realize that because she drives you nuts from wanting to be with her, that she is compelling you to improve yourself? To know yourself better, to become more confident, to rid yourself of those flaws that you feel she exposes every time you come anywhere near her?

I believe that her role in your life is to make you a better man. Were it not for her, you would be an ignorant fool still bumbling around in darkness. Her presence is capable of lifting you up higher than you could ever have imagined. And thus her presence is a double-edged sword. You cannot have her, you will not have her, at least not at this stage in your life (we are probably talking about anytime within the next five years, if at all), because if you DID then you would not be compelled to improve.

Therefore.

Let her disappear.

You cannot succeed until you do.

cynetix

salinechow, it seems to me that your subconscious has latched onto women your whole life to provide you with the incentive to confront an internal fear. Whatever that may be, the best advice I can tell you is to embrace it. Trust your gut, and embrace it. 'You cannot succeed until you do'.

 

[Between_The_Lines]

She showed me the text message group chat of her family fawning over the gesture. Her mother, father, sister, and brother in law all excited for her and rooting for me. Her mother trying to count how many there were. Her father saying I was a keeper. Her sister saying she couldn’t be coy about our relationship anymore. The girl herself exclaiming she talks about me with her family. Like I said if you read it. If and when things start to develop, I will be greeted warmly by all. When I am not around, they will ask about the guy who sent her flowers. Hows it going with us, when are we seeing each other again. If our dates continue to go as amazingly as they have, when she comes home blushed with her neck red from me sucking on it, people in her household will be happy for her and it will make her blush. As opposed to her skulking in at 4am and being out with some unknown shady character. When she eventually sleep out with me, either on vacation or at my house, her family will justify it as young love and not sluty party girl. They will constantly codify the relationship with me as opposed to making her explain it or feel weird about it. Don’t you see man. Hearts and minds. Before the US invades a country they always drop flyers first. They attempt to win the hearts and minds of the country before they occupy. Less resistance and more co operation from non combatants. An extreme example, but it illustrates the idea.

I traveled down this very road with my ex, Saline, thinking I could sneak in through a backdoor and captivate her heart by winning over her friends and family. In my case, it was wishful thinking at best, manipulation at worst. What I took from that experience is that I'd rather her friends and family downright despise me as she obstinately defends me against them than to have her on the fence while her family cheers me on. I'm not saying that their view on you is completely irrelevant - it's not - but what, by far, matters most is her opinion, not what her friends or family think. A woman in love or infatuated with a particular man is impervious to outside criticism. Nothing gets through to her. She simply doesn't want to hear it. No one is going to ruin her fantasy - no one.

You're qualifying yourself to her in a roundabout way, possibly without realizing what you're doing, making mental notes of small triumphs in which you impress her friends and family. In fact, you're directly qualifying yourself to her just by making an effort to tear down the player label she's applied to you, and in so doing you're subcommunicating that you're willing to change. For who? For what? All for her. Very unattractive. The formula ought to always be: "this is me... accept it, or fvck off."

 

[stevo]

This isn't about succeeding with the girl or no though. It is about improving upon yourself by any means necessary. By coming here and not letting yourself fail is the same thing as not letting yourself get rejected every once in a while.

You feel better now that you've neg repped me? It made your day, didnt it?

What are you trying to say with your comment? Let him get rejected?

Its called tough love. If OP wanted it sugar-coated he should have stated that.

 

[Fred1234567]

You feel better now that you've neg repped me? It made your day, didnt it?

What are you trying to say with your comment? Let him get rejected?

Its called tough love. If OP wanted it sugar-coated he should have stated that.

steveo is gay

 

[Bingo-Player]

right first of all well done for taking the time to post in such detail , its the kind of stuff i wanna see more of around here

i was mainly reading about what she was doing so excuse me if I've got some stuff mixed up

i figure the flowers have been a bit of a blessing and a curse

a blessing in the sense of she now knows your sincere about your inentions with her and its won brownie points with the family , which to be honest is always beneficial

the curse however is that she now knows your position you have revealed too many cards and the ball is in her court which as we all know women will take full advantage of that

i would seriously consider putting her on the back burner for a week or two now though let the emotional response to the flowers build up in her mind

the less she sees / hears from you the faster it will grow and the faster you will be on your way to getting your d*ck into her hole


as a side note i hadn't thought of this angle previously

but i guess depending on where you stand with a chick taking her flowers to her door on valentines and then taking her out would be an extremely courageous thing to do and I'm pretty sure it would 90% guarantee you sex on the same day

may give it a shot next year

 

[ImTheDoubleGreatest!]

You feel better now that you've neg repped me? It made your day, didnt it?

What are you trying to say with your comment? Let him get rejected?

Its called tough love. If OP wanted it sugar-coated he should have stated that.

If you continue to take the advice here because you are fearful of failure, then that is the equivalent of regretting not asking a girl out because of fear of rejection. You will never be able to learn or experience past a certain point then.

Many of the great posters who have left have said that when you get better with women, then you will start to see patterns; however, once you reach a grand level of experience, you begin to realize that there isn't a pattern at all.

What does this mean? It means that there is no set path, no set rules or regulations for ANYTHING when dealing with women. They are meant to be treated more as guidelines. Because at that grand level of 'wisdom', you are able to bend such 'rules' to your own will and even create your own in a sense.
But it requires that elevated 'wisdom' to be able to do so. And in order to acquire it, you must experience without taking too much 'advice' of others. Reason being, every situation is different. Every minor detail is different. Different in a way that none of us could know or even care to know. And that can change up everything (as in how to deal with a particular situation).

And negging you did not 'make my day'. In fact, it bothers me to see such 'advice' here that can inhibit the growth of a person or persons. We promote self improvement. Not the inhibition of it. Don't go making assumptions. Because if I were to make one of you, I would say that you have a very negative and self-defeatist attitude due to you automatically assuming I would want to demote you because 'everyone is always against you'. But hey, maybe you aren't like that at all and my assumption is wrong. But then again, it just very well may be right.

 

[stevo]

If you continue to take the advice here because you are fearful of failure, then that is the equivalent of regretting not asking a girl out because of fear of rejection. You will never be able to learn or experience past a certain point then.

Many of the great posters who have left have said that when you get better with women, then you will start to see patterns; however, once you reach a grand level of experience, you begin to realize that there isn't a pattern at all.

What does this mean? It means that there is no set path, no set rules or regulations for ANYTHING when dealing with women. They are meant to be treated more as guidelines. Because at that grand level of 'wisdom', you are able to bend such 'rules' to your own will and even create your own in a sense.
But it requires that elevated 'wisdom' to be able to do so. And in order to acquire it, you must experience without taking too much 'advice' of others. Reason being, every situation is different. Every minor detail is different. Different in a way that none of us could know or even care to know. And that can change up everything (as in how to deal with a particular situation).

And negging you did not 'make my day'. In fact, it bothers me to see such 'advice' here that can inhibit the growth of a person or persons. We promote self improvement. Not the inhibition of it. Don't go making assumptions. Because if I were to make one of you, I would say that you have a very negative and self-defeatist attitude due to you automatically assuming I would want to demote you because 'everyone is always against you'. But hey, maybe you aren't like that at all and my assumption is wrong. But then again, it just very well may be right.

Haha well put though I do not share your perspective.

Taking advise here is not solely because of fear of failure but to be better equipped for the bumps in a relational journey.

Some things work, some things don't. Some things strengthen your frame, somethings don't.

You see my friend, when you've tried something in the past that didn't work for you, it is only best you alert the next person headed that way of the danger lying ahead rather than letting them find out for themselves just so they could learn.

We are here to improve ourselves and here to help ourselves. I don't know it all, OP doesn't know it all but when a poster asks a question and I have a perspective that could help their case and I feel the need to use my time to post in their thread, I would tell them the truth I know at that time.

OP is in fantasy land and is taking actions based on the expectation or hopeful actualization of a particular future.

We can give him all the advise in the world but OP would do as he sees fit just like in the case of ESPI, if you read up on the thread he posted.

My post to him is in hopes he actually sees the light, restructure his frame and succeed with the girl but again it'd serve as a reference for him in the future regardless of how his relationship with her pans out and it'd be a reference for myself when I'm in a similar situation.

I'm not upset with the neg rep, made me reconsider my stance with OP's issue and I still believe though the flower was a nice gesture, it was an unnecessary gesture but again the point of it all is to learn but do that which we choose to do.

 

[stevo]

His buying flowers for her is not the core issue, in my opinion.

Maybe not solely but the actions afterward is critical.

Would you have done the same? Buy flowers?

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

There are two variables for consideration, and those are the same two why personally I wouldn't have bothered.

1) Timeframe and ultimately the duration of the 'relationship' doesn't really sound like it warrants the giving of flowers, least of all on V-Day.

2) The fact that the woman in question is attributed plate status, also suggests that she had not yet reached that stage where she deserved such an overt display of romance.


For me, such affection is saved only for the most prime specimens who have proven their worth, who I feel like giving said affection to, not some broad who seeks such validation by raising what will essentially be a transient insecurity; and by transient, I mean said interest and insecurity will flail immediately upon receipt of said validation.

She might think/have thought you a playa, but she still kept banging you, right.

This was ultimately an over-reaction on your part Saline, but you are a smart cookie and you will know what to do in future.

St. Valentine was the guy who represented 'courtly love and nobility'; ask yourself if this situation is either courtly love, and/or noble. I think therein lies your answer.

 

[salinechow]

Oooo booooyyyss...

Shes is coming over tomorrow night!

So for learning experience(or if anyone is actually interested in the story) here’s how it played out.

Turns out this girl has more "game “to her than I thought. I thought because she was so sweet sometimes and a used to be fat chick, that she would revel in my attention and fun. Plus sometimes she loses her frame with me so bad that I thought her games where her just being nervous or guarded. NOPE. Chick is playing hard to get and listening to advice from her friends on how to get the "player" out of the "player".

I know this because of HER incongruence. HA. Go figure. They do it too boys they do the same sh!t we do. Kinda fun though to actually be hip to what’s going on, thanks to you guys mostly.

So Sat. Night she texted me at 230am and again at 330am. JUnk texts. I responded at noon the next day. BS nonsense and trade just a few texts.

Then when she got home to the flowers finally on SUNDAY she texted me photos of the arrangement and was blown away and gushing again. Final exchange is all thats relevant.

Her: "These are even more beautiful in person than I could have hoped!" Emojies

I was at the gym so I responded 2hrs later.

Me: "Just like you are" :flowers:

Then radio silence. I expected that actually. Her friends were leaving town that night.

I did not expect to hear from her today. I figured she was going to make me ask her out. I probably would have waited till weds night for thurs.

But... 6:30 today

Her: When are we hanging out this week?

Me: Do you have a sense of your availability for the week? I thought you might have extra hrs to work because the kids are off of school this week.

Her: Im pretty open and flexible actually. A lot of family’s are away on vaca.

Me: Tomorrow night?

Me: I want to take you to a proper dinner and drinks.

Her: A first date? (Obviously we have been out a few times already but like I have mentioned its always these sensational type meetings and partying.)

Me: Yes. Id love that.

Me: Then of course we will do our wine, music and massage. Maybe even a little smoke, who knows. Im sure we will have fun and laughs like we always do.

Her: Sounds lovelyyyy


Before anyone jumps out of a window. Here are a few missing details.

Sat. When we were texting. I turned the gas way up and was overtly sexual with her. Then again with her on the phone sat night while she was going out to meet her friends. She was actually demanding that I text with her because I wasnt there with her and she said she missed that I wasn’t adventuring with her. Of course, I did not. I am not a pen pal on demand. Flowers or not, I am no puppet. However, I am starting to get the BF treatment already. She cant help it. Thing is, I know that’s FZ airspace as well. She is going to have to work harder than that to get me sitting around and texting her on a sat night. PHSSST f^ck that noise. (6 months ago, I actually would have been excited to do that. Thank God for SS)

Anyway, in short, this girl knows exactly where the wine is getting uncorked and what massage means. She has actually agreed to come over before while we where out together but logistics prevented it.

So, Ill check in with you all on weds.

By the way. Last night I had a huge thank you all penned down along with an update at that point but got too drunk to hit send. So, I am going to revise it and post later on sometime.

For now though, sucess or failure, thank you for the open eyes and wisdom. I know nothing is won yet. Surely, there may never be a definitive outcome with her either way in the long run. But for now...

The flowers were a good idea. It escalated things the way I was hoping. Softened the player persona and got her to be less gaurded. I took the ball and ran with it. Took a few more risks being overtly sexual with her and now shes down it seems.

To be honest, I have no shame in saying, secks tomorrow or not, I am going to thoroughly enjoy my time with her in a more regular way. I am going to enjoy getting f^cked up with her at my place. And I am going to thoroughly enjoy touching every part of her new found firmness. Go ahead have a fielday with that last paragraph you savages!

Thanks guys really.

 

[Bingo-Player]

To be honest i cant help but feel you are being dragged into games here

Some of these texts are way to heavy regardless of the situation and there seems to be no consistency to them

“yes id love that” ......ffs man come on you can’t try to give her anymore power over your situation

The whole text convo screams that you are banking on her

You seem obsessed with getting this player image she has of you out of her head and i suspect it’s the only thing actually keeping her around atm

Never underestimate a woman’s power to turn the tables on you no matter how “nice” she is

And How exactly have you been overtly sexual with her ? when you haven’t actually seen her ?

im seeing Way too many red herrings in this

 

[salinechow]

Update. The good the bad and the ugly

I have to admit..this is kind of difficult. Yet, I dont think its fair to go around here and contribute to other peoples posts and problems without showing my own weaknesses and struggles. Comradery comes from authenticity.

Everything went BETTER than according to plan. Dinner was awesome. Vibe and place was awesome. She was relaxed, appreciative, engaged, complimentary and even cool with the PDAs( I don’t know why but some chicks get squirrely about that. Pretty annoying actually). If this was our “real” first date it would have been a perfect one, especially from a girls point of view. Well at least this part of the night was.

She actually asked me what I had planned next (knowing full well already) and I told her she was coming over. She offered absolutely no hesitation to this.

Came back to my place, opened the wine, put on the music and bull ****ted and hung out like we have been dating for years. Kissing, rubbing, touching. Receptive to all compliments and thoughts about lifes mysteries and offered plenty of her own. We just could not get along better. She actually has a hard time not telling me how enamored with me she is.

Then, after a little while I tell her to go in the bedroom. She again complies immediately and walks into the bedroom and says “oooo, the bedroom. Okay.” I tell her to lay down in a particular way,so I can get at all her lady parts to escalate my Living Room rubbing into a full body bedroom massage. Anyway, shirt comes off, bra comes off without the slightest hint of uncomfortably or LMR. Massage continues to escalate and has no problem with me touching any part of her. Exactly like I said I would, I did.

Then, sh!t goes sideways for me. Got her relaxed and ready and just couldn’t close the deal. (collective forehead slap from all here a SS) Not because of her either. In all my learning from interactions with girls over the years, I was DEFINITELY getting the green light go ahead from this girl and I bombed out. I just couldn’t pull her pants off and finish the escalation. I was even rubbing her bare a$$ with the massage lotion and couldn’t be brave enough to close. WHY?:kick:

One f^cking itis, that’s why. Early, early, on in this situation, a friend I have made here at SS was kind enough to “coach” me honestly about what he thought about my interaction with this girl via PM. He said I was mostly in the game but that I was developing a rapidly ascending “Skyscraper” case of oneitis and that I might be doomed by it. A few of you called it too. Well, as I live and breathe, I never thought it would give me an issue when things were going WELL! I thought I should avoid oneitis to avoid heartbreak, not that it would interfere with my success! WTF.

Also, I think I drank too much. Got too soft about her.

Got too into just enjoying her and was actually put off my game by how into me she was. After all the back and forth and games and ghosting and push pull hot cold BS… I just couldn’t get centered on the fact that it was finally a win for me. You have seen it in sports. Now you can see it here. I absolutely choked. Plain as that.

However, I just don’t see really what I could have done better in the time leading up to this because I have applied the wisdom the best I could.

I have never stopped spinning plates even up to last night. 4 Strong plates and a few stragglers that probably aren’t “plates” per say.( By the way, the Mondaynight bartender finally offered me her #. No I didn’t have to ask.)

Obviously, I have hit the gym like a maniac, that Ill never stop. I almost go too much in fact. Work has suffered a bit but with a few bright spots as well.

Volunteer stuff has been very weak, but I am going tonight.

Hobbies doing well actually.

Now, I can see what you guys are saying about her losing respect for you when you don’t push. I really did get the sense that she did. I mean at one point she was prancing around my apt. in only a bra but when I went to the bathroom and came back her shirt was back on. And, just the way she asked for me to take her home. She wasn’t rude or sh!tty or anything, but I got the sense that it was “OK buddy windows closed”

I even made the mistake of telling her “OK. In a little bit.” Got her back into bed and just BS for a short while. Kissing and even a little mock sex. Then she really had to go. That may have been a little needy. Actually it was. Don’t think she saw as that though. Yet I am saying it out loud just to give the readers behind me who need it, a case of what not to do.

Espi said I had a weak frame about this situation. I didn’t agree with that all. Again, if things didn’t go well, I really knew I would give it up and walk pretty easily. What I think I failed to understand in this whole thing was what being so invested would do to my frame inside of success with her. I have been willingly and calculatingly becoming beta with her. Having it work, I didn’t realize would set me up to tumble down that side of the hill. I am in shock really. What MAN, gets a young, plush, chick, half naked, liquored up and rubbing and spreading her bare ass cheeks with lotion and doesn’t close the deal? :moon: I feel like a teenage virgin. Actually, I think I was better at this back then.

All the work of choking down the red pill and I am still MR. Softy.

I am speechless as to where to go from here. I don’t even know what you guys might say to do??

Not only with her but just in general.

O and just for an encore of beta blowout….When she texted me “Well thank you for such a wonderful first date, sorry I am such a 12yr old.” ( She was apologizing that she couldn’t stay over) I texted her back a video that I took of us one night on the snowy beach. A video that we watched together last night. A video in which I say to her that I think she is perfect. OMG.

I think I need to stop drinking so much.

Does anyone have any advice? Or are all you as dumbfoundly disappointed as me.

Does anyone see this in a positive light at all?

Next step?

 

[sylvester the cat]

Wow. I hope you get a second chance OP. I really do. That would just be cruel if you didn't after all that great work. Then again if you didn't it would serve as a painful reminder the next time you get a naked hot chick on your bed again.

 

[stevo]

We live and learn OP, we live and learn.

It is still somewhat redeemable, right now she's confused.

So what you do is reassure her.

If she sends you a message, no matter what it's about, your response should be seks related.

Tell her you cannot get her sweet body out of your head, her sweet smell and curves and just thinking it over again is making you hard at work.

This would help clarify her thoughts that you do find her attractive and do intend to bone her.

Ask her what color panties she has on.

I can't stop thinking of how warm it'd feel being inside you right now and after all these tell her to come over that same day.

Please fcuk her. No BS talking, laughing or whatever. The minute she walks through your door, pin her there, kiss her neck, grab her ass, fondle her tits, leave her for a little bit.

Get her something to drink. Then rush that pussie like a starving man.

Please do not over text her.
Please do not go the friend route.
Please remember if you continue what you were doing before, she wont come back.
Please remember now is not a time for no action, time is ticking for you to fcuk.
Please do not be too hard on yourself.
Please remember you have men on here rooting for you.

 

[TheMonkeyKing]

1) You gave her an inkling of what she wanted.... that being the romantic anti-playa game. Now back off and let her do a bit of work. Don't chase too hard for too long; read up on variations of push-push-pull and push-pull-pull.

2) Ease up on the double texting and remember the golden ratio - you give her two of everything she gives you three of. Personally, I usually go for 1:3, unless they are being especially good.

3) Drink less, perform better. Go out sometimes (together) and get absolutely off your trees. But not regularly. A couple or three drinks over dinner is more than enough to both feel at ease, especially if you are getting on well anyway.

4) Don't EVER be the guy she doesn't have to chase and/or reciprocate an effort for. Withdraw you efforts a little bit and you soon find out what her intentions actually are, through her ACTIONS.