The reason that makes a serious relationship unbearable to me are the continuous tasks

[SW15]

A woman shouldn't expect us to drop everything to do some inane activity she feels is important in that moment unless she is willing to also have sex whenever and wherever we want it.

True. Most men end up doing some inane activity more frequently than a woman having sex whenever, especially the longer a relationship lasts.

It sounds simple because it is. If she isn't putting out, there really isn't a lot of reason for the relationship. I tend to have more fun with the boys if I just want someone to watch TV with. And I don't have to deal with the attitude that comes with.

A lot of men would rather spend time with other men if it is just generally spending time together and not having sex.

Male-male friendships are often lower drama than male-female romantic relationships.

The sad reality is that after a certain amount of time in an LTR (usually 5 years), this line in the sand approach only goes so far. They typically just become sullen, start shutting down, and giving you a sh1tty silent treatment. If you start throwing kids into the mix that get even get expedited. Really, your only option at that point is the threat to walk (dread game). Which in itself takes effort to apply effectively.

This is true and part of why I have famously said on this board that the shelf life of goodness in an LTR is somewhere around 5 years. Male frame decay does start to become more noticeable around that point in time.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

You seem to be describing how women generally get handled in either plate status or STRs. The sad reality is that after a certain amount of time in an LTR (usually 5 years), this line in the sand approach only goes so far. They typically just become sullen, start shutting down, and giving you a sh1tty silent treatment. If you start throwing kids into the mix that even may get expedited. Really, your only option at that point is the threat to walk (dread game). Which in itself takes effort to apply effectively.

You seem to forget that I'm a divorced father of two, so I know what you're talking about. I handled all my women like this, regardless the time spent. The problem is that if this attitude is not internalised, then holding your boundaries becomes difficult, but I don't allow people to cross my boundaries. It's not 'an effort' to me, because it's not a 'frame' but who I am.

 

[SW15]

This is why we need a LTR forum. LTR game is just not the same.

In an LTR, Iron Rule of Tomassi #1 "Frame is Everything" becomes even more important.

 

[Dr.Suave]

(1) we live separately
(2) see each other 4 times a week max
(3) She gets pregnant within 6 months
(3) I'm allowed to have one hotter younger girl to sleep with

Any takers?

A lesbian who wants to keep up appearances for some reason. Years ago I matched a girl on Tinder who confessed that she actually was a lesbian and I considered something like what you said but didnt follow through.

 

[SW15]

That's why you don't live with them.

I'll get married; if:

(1) we live separately
(2) see each other 4 times a week max
(3) She gets pregnant within 6 months
(3) I'm allowed to have one hotter younger girl to sleep with

Any takers?

A lesbian who wants to keep up appearances for some reason. Years ago I matched a girl on Tinder who confessed that she actually was a lesbian and I considered something like what you said but didnt follow through.

It will be nearly impossible for @BadBoy89 to find that in a marriage. In the USA, there's now no stigma on lesbianism. Most lesbians aren't worried about keeping up appearances.

Living together is something almost all married people do. While open marriages are a thing, they are far less common than closed marriages. Married couples see other daily. If you only want to see a woman 3 days in a 7 day week, consider a boyfriend-girlfriend relationship and try to keep it that way. Good luck continuing that beyond 3 years.

Getting pregnant within the first 6 months of marriage is becoming less common. From observation, it seems to me that most first pregnancies of childless married couples happen within 2-4 years of the wedding date.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

That's all stuff you can do on your own time and SHOULD be done on your own time by yourself. Why would you schedule a date or want to spend time with someone else if you want to be alone or do nothing?

It's one thing if you live together and see each other all day every day. It's another if you are making a specific time to see her.

I'm not sure what the point of spending time with someone is if you want to do nothing, which is an activity that is usually done alone.

So...no I can't relate because when I want that, I simply don't involve other people. It's a pretty simple fix. Problem solved.

 

[Manure Spherian]

Do you relate?

Yes!

That’s exactly why my marriage greatly improved with two children. If a woman’s energy is not put into child raising and homemaking (and my wife is awesome at both) she will seek to take over a man’s life and thoughts. Hence I refer to “boyfriend-girlfriend” relationships as clown marriage with man as entertainer, court jester, and pet. (Yes, I know, not all of them.)

In the beginning, I almost stopped dating wife to be because of constant plan making.

This is also exactly why if I were a single man today, knowing what I know now, I’d be firmly against “boyfriend and girlfriend” and “LTR,” as I’ve repeatedly said in previous posts. I’d seek a wife or a woman who acts as wife if no government recognition was involved.

 

[The Duke]

My mom & dad always had a good balance in their relationship when it came to tasks my mom wanted done. It helped that she could do so much herself and was a strong female. She had her roles to fill. He had his. Not much neediness on her part. The house was my mom's domain and my dad didn't care one bit. My mom cooked(and she was amazing), cleaned, sewed, raised her kids, ran all the errands, and worked part time on occasion. My sister and I always had chores to do. I don't think I ever saw my dad do any household chores, other than maintain the lawn.

My dad made good money and worked a ton of hours in an executive level job. He also had a serious hobby on the side that I was a part of. That is how he escaped my mom when he felt like it.

My mom certainly didn't ride my dad's azz with continuous tasks or wake him up from his nap when he came home after work to eat just so he could go back to the office.

My mom was raised in a very patriarchal family and it produced a great woman. Those types are pretty rare these days.

If all modern day woman can provide is looks, sex, and companionship then she certainly isn't special enough for marriage. My mom showed me that a woman could be all that to a man plus raise his children, and keep a nice home. She knew her role and was very supportive. She was also taken care of financially.

Today's women lean on men too much and bring too little to the table. They are simply too damn selfish and overvalue themselves. And they all wonder where all the good men went and why men don't want to marry. lolz My own mom is disappointed in modern day women.

And guess what, thats all fine with me. I have adjusted. I stopped worrying about finding a woman that offered something even remotely close to what my mom could.

So when I got divorced I went out and burned thru a ton of girls and had a blast. New ones every 1-3months for a while. When I got tired of that I would get into a committed relationship. When she acted up I kicked her out and went back into the wild and hunted up some new ones.

 

[Barrister]

You seem to forget that I'm a divorced father of two, so I know what you're talking about. I handled all my women like this, regardless the time spent. The problem is that if this attitude is not internalised, then holding your boundaries becomes difficult, but I don't allow people to cross my boundaries. It's not 'an effort' to me, because it's not a 'frame' but who I am.

Not so much that I forgot but I didn't know you were a father or divorced. I am the same. And I can tell you that many times this degradation of the relationship is out of the man's control. No matter how tight his frame is. It comes down to the woman and her (unrealistic) expectations. I am envious of you if you never have had to use dread game. Personally, I found it a chore and would prefer to just walk away at that point.

A lot of posters in this thread seem to sort of be glossing over the fact that many us (at least me and I believe OP) are talking about an LTR that is/has been going on for years. Keeping air-tight frame on a plate you've been seeing for 3 months is one thing. Keeping air tight frame on a wife of 10 years who grows resentful and who you live under the same roof is a completely different story.

 

[Barrister]

My mom & dad always had a good balance in their relationship when it came to tasks my mom wanted done. It helped that she could do so much herself and was a strong female. She had her roles to fill. He had his. Not much neediness on her part. The house was my mom's domain and my dad didn't care one bit. My mom cooked(and she was amazing), cleaned, sewed, raised her kids, ran all the errands, and worked part time on occasion. My sister and I always had chores to do. I don't think I ever saw my dad do any household chores, other than maintain the lawn.

My dad made good money and worked a ton of hours in an executive level job. He also had a serious hobby on the side that I was a part of. That is how he escaped my mom when he felt like it.

My mom certainly didn't ride my dad's azz with continuous tasks or wake him up from his nap when he came home after work to eat just so he could go back to the office.

My mom was raised in a very patriarchal family and it produced a great woman. Those types are pretty rare these days.

If all modern day woman can provide is looks, sex, and companionship then she certainly isn't special enough for marriage. My mom showed me that a woman could be all that to a man plus raise his children, and keep a nice home. She knew her role and was very supportive. She was also taken care of financially.

Today's women lean on men too much and bring too little to the table. They are simply too damn selfish and overvalue themselves. And they all wonder where all the good men went and why men don't want to marry. lolz My own mom is disappointed in modern day women.

And guess what, thats all fine with me. I have adjusted. I stopped worrying about finding a woman that offered something even remotely close to what my mom could.

So when I got divorced I went out and burned thru a ton of girls and had a blast. New ones every 1-3months for a while. When I got tired of that I would get into a committed relationship. When she acted up I kicked her out and went back into the wild and hunted up some new ones.

A woman of a bygone era. Like most good things in our society it is becoming a thing of the past.

 

[CornbreadFed]

What's a way to prevent this?

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

Keeping air-tight frame on a plate you've been seeing for 3 months is one thing. Keeping air tight frame on a wife of 10 years who grows resentful and who you live under the same roof is a completely different story.

I know from the experiences of other men how difficult that was for them, but that's because you're talking 'frame'. I internalised an IDGAF attitude when I was sixteen and almost killed myself, so after aborting that, I prioritised myself and my personal opinion over everybody else's. I made a turnaround when I was 23 after almost getting stabbed to death and mellowed out a bit, but not on my ethics. So I have no problem negotiating and compromising in order to work together, but I had strong boundaries.
I married a Christian virgin girl ten years younger (23 while I was 33) and we were together for over sixteen years.
My divorce came a year after I became severely ill and my wife couldn't handle the emotional pressures I had shielded her from and allowed negative girlfriends talk her into divorcing me and 'starting a new life'. She since seems to have regretted her decision ("I wasn't in my right mind"), but I'm glad I got to see her true nature. I'm happier now than in the last years of my marriage, I have three lovers on rotation and none of them gets to go exclusive with me, but they understand and they don't mind sharing me.

It comes down to the woman and her (unrealistic) expectations. I am envious of you if you never have had to use dread game. Personally, I found it a chore and would prefer to just walk away at that point.

Before I married my wife, she knew I never had a problem juggling 2-3 girlfriends, openly polyamorous and non-exclusive. I never needed to use 'dread game' because my wife knew I was 'good with women'. Still, I sensed a lot of bitterness from her how easily I picked up my life post-divorce while she went through 4-5 'new life partners' in the span of a 18 months. I know she's less happy than she expected to be (she often claims to be in 'survival mode'), but IDGAF as she brought this on herself. Meanwhile I got better and while I still have chronic pain issues, I have no trouble finding women to share my bed and enjoy my company without the urge to re-marry. I'm perfectly fine with living alone with my teenage kids and I'm not going exclusive with anyone, so if they choose to be with me, they know they have to share. My ex-wife has a hard time living alone and gets from one relationship into the other, although her current relationship has been going on for over a year now. She still tries to get me to act like her husband sometimes, but that time is over. I don't have a 'frame', but I always preferred to be alone over being in a bad relationship, so when my wife wanted to divorce, I was only concerned with protecting the kids (6y + 9y at the time) to make sure they wouldn't suffer from the divorce.

 

[AmsterdamAssassin]

What's a way to prevent this?

I think you should have your boundaries visible and make sure other people respect them, whether it's your boss, a co-worker, or your wife. A marriage is a 'contract' where you both work towards a future together and both have responsibilities, especially with children.

A wife may fall out of love, but she's not allowed to fall out of respect. Relationships revolve around respect and trust. Hopefully love is also present, but it's not as necessary for the relationship as respect and trust.

Fondness and friendship can be enough to replace love, but trust and respect are absolute. If someone starts to disrespect you, you have to come down hard on them. Don't be anybody's doormat, not for anything in the world.

If you allow yourself to be devalued, your self-respect will slip and if you don't respect yourself, who will?

 

[The Duke]

What's a way to prevent this?

We can prevent it by raising the bar. I truly believe, and the more I see of this world the more it's evident that men have most of the control over society. Women are too emotional/irrational. With that power, then we have the ability to change things. We can start by limiting relationships(of all type) with women. It's going to require not banging random girls. It's going to require getting away from providing women attention on social media.

A man will need to define his requirements from the start. If she can't meet them then no relationship. No sex. No anything.

If we expect the women to stop running wild in the streets and acting like wh0res then men will need to stop chasing after them.

I'm all for public shaming.

There needs to be consequences. The acceptance of Birth control pill and abortion removed big consequences.

Maybe the birth control pill needs to be made illegal? Sounds crazy doesn't it. If it was you get it would lower notch counts on these wh0res.

I've always been amazed that women don't have enough self awareness to realize that with every new cahk they take, a piece of their heart and soul is damaged.

 

[CyrusTheGreat]

Either you assign tasks or they do. It's up to you which.

 

[The Duke]

Here is why the answer to simply keep a strong frame and internalize that into who you are will fix all your problems is B.S. it's not applicable to a LTR.

I've been that guy that wasn't afraid to end it due to bad behavior and disrespect . I had no problem drawing the line and ending it. One of them I dumped on the side of the highway, the other I left at a restaurant. Never went back for them. Neither one hated me for it either.

When the disrespect starts and you let them know they are violating a boundary and put sanctions on them it gets their attention. You see them improve. But over time they act up again. Then when you call out their bad behavior the punishment and strong words/actions have less of an impact. They pull away, you pull away, and it's a stalemate. Eventually you have to end the relationship. You haven't solved a thing.

And save me the speech about you should pick better women. I've been around the block a few times I know what's out there.

Maybe my expectations are too high, they've all told me that. I do have standards. My mom showed me what a woman worth keeping long term should do and how she should act.

 

[The Duke]

Either you assign tasks or they do. It's up to you which.

And what do you do when they don't do them? @Money & Muscle had that problem. I have to.

 

[CyrusTheGreat]

And what do you do when they don't do them? @Money & Muscle had that problem. I have to.

It's a woman's utmost duty to keep her man happy. If she can't she needs to go. Bible says it best:

Wives, be submissive to your own husbands as unto the Lord.

In the current societal structure, this includes girlfriends too.

 

[SW15]

A woman of a bygone era. Like most good things in our society it is becoming a thing of the past.

True. I've not met many women who seem a lot like @The Duke 's mother. How many Millennial and Gen Z women sew?

If all modern day woman can provide is looks, sex, and companionship then she certainly isn't special enough for marriage.

That's a non-marital longer term girlfriend who you don't live with.

Today's women lean on men too much and bring too little to the table. They are simply too damn selfish and overvalue themselves. And they all wonder where all the good men went and why men don't want to marry. lolz My own mom is disappointed in modern day women.

My maternal grandmother from the GI Generation (born early 1920s) died in the 2010s. She mentioned in the 2000s and 2010s that she was unimpressed with the younger women of that time (1980s born Millennials). She didn't think they were worth marrying for the most part. 2 of her grandsons got divorced from 1980s born Millennial women, though the divorces happened after she died. I have never married.

My Boomer mother was not as traditional as my maternal grandmother. Someone could argue that my Boomer mother was a bit of a precursor to later generation women.

 

[The Duke]

It's a woman's utmost duty to keep her man happy. If she can't she needs to go. Bible says it best:

In the current societal structure, this includes girlfriends too.

How many wives/long-term girlfriends that lived under your roof for at least 3 years have you experienced?