The glaring inconsistency of the manosphere

[VikingKing]

My thoughts as well evan.. For every case of a man getting screwed over we can find one of a woman getting screwed over too, the system is far from perfect. This doesnt make me an apologist or a feminist, it makes me a realist. I dont see anything to conclude that men are being systematically screwed over on a large scale any more than any other group. A DJ embraces the times and adapts, no excuses.

Jurry be honest, have some integrity as a human being. What is your gender?

 

[Evan]

You are an apologist. Your entire response is effectively an argument saying "live with it".

Beta's live with it. Alpha's do something. You are coming at this from a point of blame. Of course people should take responsibility, but that has nothing to do with recognizing a broken system and working towards fixing it.

Point me out where I said live with it. I said take responsibility for your life. There's nothing wrong with working towards fixing it. In fact I said that. But whining about it on a website does nothing.

This is the old "The manosphere is a failure because it isn't doing anything". The manosphere is educating people, and that is part of posting on this site.

Educating others on the perils of the system, despite the deniers like yourself, IS what builds the base for future change. First you need a critical mass of people with knowledge and backbone to fight the system.

Your advice to "live with it" is precisely part of the problem which perpetuates the situation.

Who said the manosphere is a failure? Again your putting words in my mouth and trying to spin everything. Like you have this whole thread.

Of course he does, but that is all irrelevant to the immoral system we are in. Sure I can adapt to it and forget about it.....until I get a false-rape accusation directed at me.

Are you afraid of having a false rape accusation directed at you? You know what, don't put yourself in position to have one. It's that simple.

Your argument is coming from a baseline of declared powerlessness. Men should not have to "take responsibility" for a crime they did not commit. Sure they should navigate intelligently, but it doesn't change the fact that the system is greivously flawed and others should be educated on that to enable future change.

No but men should know better than to put themselves in a position where it can happen. Most of these happen at parties where men and women are really drunk and the women regrets it. This would not happen if you screened her out as a potential crazy or didn't put yourself in this position in the first place. Show me an example of a situation where a man just met a women for a date and she slept with him and then claimed false rape. Show me a situation where a man with an average life went out on a date with a girl and had a false rape case. Like I said these only happen in college where the girl and guy is really drunk and the girl regrets it. Again I am not saying this is right but men can avoid these situations.

Again, you make this about the individual women. That is ignoring the forest for the trees. Your assumption is from the "every man for himself" point of view. I agree with that to an extent. Once you have secured yourself, start helping others and when you reach enough, you change the system.

Why are you so against that?

Again where have I said I am against the manosphere. I am against whining and inaction. Talking about such things on a website may gain awareness but where is the change? You say it takes time but the manosphere has been around for a long time. I don't see much change other than men taking more responsibility for their lives and making themselves better men. But even these on itself doesn't change the system. We can only vote and men need to stand up for something to change. Yet I only see blogs and websites talking about things. It's only gaining awareness but nothing is being done to change the system.

So we should accept it because all systems are flawed?

Again you spin everything and do not think further. No system will ever be perfect but you are in a system that is the way it is. You need to be able to adapt and be able to be smart about what you do in the system you live in. Yes you should work on it constantly. That is the only way we evolve as people. In fact the system has evolved since the start. It was never perfect. Men got the benefit of the doubt for a while and the women couldn't do anything. Now we see women have more and more freedom and now men are not happy about it? We can't have everything be perfect and I'm not saying we shouldn't work at it. I'm saying that the system is evolving and changing as we speak. We have to go through systems that are not perfect to be able to change. The manosphere doesn't have as much impact as guys give it credit too. In fact it is much more filled with men who are not willing to do anything but whine about it on a website than actually do anything.

So we should only fix a system when it affects a majority of people?

You are avoiding showing me where this is a major problem. These situations can be easily avoided. And if you don't think men don't deserve any blame for being in these situations then you have no idea what your talking about. Men are desperate for love and will jump at any opportunity. They don't screen women and don't take time before jumping into marriage. Not all are like this but men who find themselves in false rape cases are just as much to blame as a women is for getting into this situation. He did not think about the risk involved getting with this girl.

But of course, the women have the entire western world fighting on their behalf for whatever is "unfair" to them. Meanwhile people like yourself seem to fight tooth and nail the very idea that men should push for justice or equality.

You don't see much happening because enough men are not yet educated on the problem. And here you are, pushing against even THAT.

I agree that men are not educated but that still does not mean that they are the victim. Men are responsible for the situation they put themselves in. That is the quickest way for men to evolve and learn from their mistakes. Becoming a victim does nothing.

So you have recognized there are issues, but your entire defense is based upon...

• Men should just adapt
• Women have problems too
• You should do more than educate others

Evan,

The first solution to a problem, is getting others to recognize there is a problem. Clearly with yourself and jurry it is easy to see there is a LOT of work to do in this area.

So what are you doing besides talking about it on a website? I don't see men fighting like feminists. I don't want to hear about the misogyny excuse. It's not acceptable. If we want equality then you need to fight for it and make this a real thing. You know why we're not seeing it? Because we are not seeing crazy amount of men getting fvcked over. If we did this would not only be men in the manosphere who are aware, lots of people would be talking about it. Also because men would rather live in fear than take responsibility for their lives and do something about it.

I would say that if the manosphere wants to evolve they need to be able to work towards real fixes to the false rape cases and the divorce rape. All I see is men talking about them being real. The solutions are to avoid them but where is the fighting against it? I don't see any. That's the taking responsibility that I would like to see. If your just talking about it on a website you know what you might as well "live with it" because your not doing anything productive.

 

[zekko]

I agree that men are not educated but that still does not mean that they are the victim. Men are responsible for the situation they put themselves in. That is the quickest way for men to evolve and learn from their mistakes.

Of course men should be responsible for themselves, no one is saying they shouldn't.

Aside from that, this reminds me a bit of how men will sometimes say that women should not put themselves into bad situations - like dressing slutty in a bad part of town, or provoking their boyfriends into beating them. Women vehemently respond against that sort of reasoning and want to put all responsibility onto men, anywhere but on themselves.

I would say that if the manosphere wants to evolve they need to be able to work towards real fixes to the false rape cases and the divorce rape. All I see is men talking about them being real. The solutions are to avoid them but where is the fighting against it? I don't see any. That's the taking responsibility that I would like to see. If your just talking about it on a website you know what you might as well "live with it" because your not doing anything productive.

You have to have public opinion behind you to get anything accomplished politically, unless you have money to pay off lobbyists and congressmen. But even that money won't change the courts and the liberal judges.

Talking about problems on the internet raises awareness, which is the first step toward changing public opinion. It's a grass roots level thing, which has only just begun and is in its very first stages. But then there are guys like you who dismiss it as just "whining" on the internet, so we have males who are working against the cause from the start.

 

[jurry]

Rape cases each year US: about 80000

25% of which are false according to fox news

Adult male population US: about 120 million

20000/120000000 = .0001667

Little over .015% of the adult male population..

Thank you danger for taking ten pages to establish yourself as the captain of irrelevancy. What would we do without men like you and other red pillers keeping the world balanced.

Let me restate my original piece that I an addressing the other 99.985% of men, my mistake.

 

[Evan]

When you make statements such as "women have problems too" or "not all women are like that"......that is easily interpreted to.....live with it. It is justification for the current system from my perspective.

I don't see the connection. Not all women are the same or they would be claiming false rape or all women would be divorce raping their husbands. Sure you site some and I know it's happened because I have seen it happen myself but in the case I saw, nothing happened because there wasn't enough evidence. I'm not claiming all of them end like this and I'm not saying that there isn't some unfair treatment but men don't need to go around scared if they didn't put themselves in situations where a women can feel taken advantage of.

Posting on a website educates others. The real change happens individually, with each man who begins to recognize the misandric process.

Ok but It's not that it educates others, it's that the awareness isn't reaching the people who make real change. It's reaching a small community of people. Mostly beta males who don't know how to attract a women. If they want change they need to make the masses aware. The masses don't give a **** about the misandric process.

The manosphere is an effort to educate men by disseminating information. Your casting that as "not doing anything" is in effect calling it a "failure". You even articulate it as a "failure to do something about it".

I am not putting words in your mouth, this is a clear interpretation of your words. You seem to be against posting about it on a website (educating others).

Don't you know any cause needs supporters before it can enact change?

Your interpretation of my words. If the manosphere wants real change they need to make some serious noise. The one man at a time crap is nonsense. It's a good way to suck in betas who don't know how to think for themselves.

By not having sex? By avoiding women? As I state again, Men should not have to take such ridiculous steps to avoid an unjust misandric system.

Who said they don't need to have sex? Who said they need to take ridiculous steps to avoid the situation? All I said is men need to screen who they let into their lives. Not just because of false rape or divorce rape. But because it's common fvcking sense which the masses does not have. Beta males just want sex with whoever they can have sex with. They will marry a women because she is his only option.

I will go one step further and cite men who didn't even have sex with the woman.

Duke Lacrosse
Tawana Bradley

If those high profile ones are not enough.....here are some low-profile one's....of those who were caught at least.


http://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/local/2014/10/24/woman-sentenced-windsor-rape-hoax/17841039/
Here is one for Bryan Banks, but it was only when she admitted the story was false that things moved in reverse.
http://www.local21news.com/template...ies/archive/2014/10/fVzqDFif.xml#.VGz_H7l3u70
This man, arrested on a woman's word alone, who would have thought?
This man had the balls to talk about the false-rape accusations and was promptly lambasted....which demonstrates the need to educate more men on the subject, which you seem to hate so much.


Oh, and here is a really good study, citing from the DOJ that there is strong evidence over 25% of rape claims are false.

Thank you for providing stories. This is a good way to spread awareness.

Seriously though it's not a perfect system. And I'm not supporting the system. I never was. You just said I was. But I also stand by my original stance that men need to wise up and be smarter about who they allow into their lives. Because this stuff does happen. It doesn't happen a ton but it does happen.

Like I said in my original post, it happens mostly because some fvcked in the head girl made some claims and the people believed her. I admit to myself that false rape is a tough case to crack. There's never any solid evidence. I think that's why men are not given the benefit of the doubt because men are viewed as the more dominant species.

But I think in most false rape cases you see that there wasn't enough evidence so nothing really came out of it. While there were some who got the **** end of the stick well that's the ****ty part about being a male. But what do you consider to be a solid answer to the men who get treated poorly? How can you solve the false rape case? There is usually not enough evidence. Women's words are usually against men because they are bigger and able to handle themselves more when drunk. But what is the solution? I never see the manosphere trying to solve any of these issues. Just "awareness"

Change doesn't happen overnight. It happens one man at a time.

Rollo said it best....

I respect rollo. He's done some solid things. But I still don't see much change. It's a small community of men who read this. Nobody really talks about it because no men want to talk about it. But these issues you talk about. Why don't I see enough public awareness? Shouldn't these men who are made aware of the problems be stepping up if these issues are as big as the manosphere claims? I mean if these really are as serious as men make them out to be, where is the action taken besides awareness? Where's the passion?

All I see is apathetic beta males talking about how he's pissed off about false rape. How he is getting divorced raped or his gf cheated on him. I know lots of men do improve their lives and I think that's awesome and why I joined this place but if it does take one man at a time, I thought by sometime we would see some real change. But more of the same? Seems like not much of a movement but more an awareness course. Which is cool. But doesn't get to the root of the problems.

 

[sylvester the cat]

um. wow.

just how far are some people prepared to go in order to bend the other's mind to their way of thinking? politics.

 

[LiveFreeX]

Foreign women are still sane.

Only marry foreign women.

 

[zekko]

Rape cases each year US: about 80000

25% of which are false according to fox news

Adult male population US: about 120 million

20000/120000000 = .0001667

Little over .015% of the adult male population..

Even if one person on the planet is in prison for false accusation, it's still wrong. What's the harm in saying so? Besides which, even if they are found innocent, they still have had their lives disrupted, not to mention the lawyer fees. There are 20,000 guys right there, using your stats.

Also, back on page 7 I mentioned this incident from my workplace, which is not a case of false rape accusation, but was a case of false sexual harassment claim, which is a similar weapon women use against men. In this case, there was no malice toward the guy, he was just a disposable tool to protect herself:

"This woman where I work had gotten herself into trouble and knew she was probably going to get fired. So she seduced and slept with a male supervisor (the guy was an easy mark, desperate sort), then claimed he harassed her.

The place didn't want the lawsuit so they fired the supervisor, and she got to keep her job."

In any case, I DO think awareness is being raised and I do see a slight change in attitude in recent years. I see more guys speaking out against misandric cases on more neutral forums like news sites.

 

[jurry]

No harm in saying so zekko, but when it is molded into this whole delusional worldview that puts men as hapless victims to evil women and the feminist government/court system in post after post day after day that is quite harmful to the image of the manosphere.

Being a DJ is not being a victim, it is taking control of yourself. It really isnt that hard to date smart and meet good women who dont do this kind of thing, as evidenced by the other 99.985% who never deal with this.

Trying to blow it up into this big thing when clearly it isnt only serves as an excuse, and so we get posts with guys circle jerking each other over every story of a bad divorce or an injustice in the court system - "see thats why im not getting married, thats why im not dating, western women are fvcked up, the systems broken, etc.". No, they arent dating because they are terrified of women and have no experience and would rather complain about it on the internet

This is literally what ive been saying since the very first post, and ten pages later not one person has produced evidence to the contrary supporting systematic abuse of men on any meaningful scale. Lets stay focused on the issues that 99.9% of men do have to deal with.

 

[jurry]

In the UK there are 63 deaths a year per 100,000 men for testicular cancer.

There are 31 million men in the UK

(63/100,000)*31,000,000 = 19530 men

19530/31000000 =0.00063

Little over 0.063% of the adult male population...

Idiot.

You're right, a false rape accusation is just like cancer. Totally out of the blue, could happen to anyone. Lets take to the streets.

 

[jurry]

Comments bold

From the DOJ you mean. But of course, your limp-wristed leftie ideology means you must twist the narrative by casting doubt based upon which network reported on it. The link to the DOJ study is there.


Why do you feel the need to cast doubt on the figures by falsely implying the numbers originated from Fox news?how did i cast doubt on them, those are the numbers i used





Something tells me that you don't roll your eyes like this at the very minor percent of women who are proven to be sexually assaulted then?

60000/120000000 = .0005

Do you think that is irrelevant then and we shouldn't bother with this reporting or doing anything about it?ive literally never thought about it until you presented it just now, because it doesnt affect me, nor does it affect nearly anyone else




Taking control of yourself also includes taking control of your environment and fixing the issues which reside in it. For some reason, you think men should not bother with such things, but it is ok for women and the misandric system to keep the boo-theel on the neck of men.

I think this forum should bother with things that are affecting men and dating, the issues that 99.985 percent of us will deal with, like I said in the last post.

And I never said it is ok for women to take advantage of men thats just more of you trying to push bullshît into your arguments. If you even bothered to read it I quoted you a good article showing how men and their lawyers ARE pushing back against sexual assault claims. So if you really want to help go join the group there and make a difference to your fractions of a percent of horrific legal injustice taking over the country.

Let the rest of the forum work on getting better with women instead of trying to justify their failures and point fingers at the feminist boogeyman.

 

[jurry]

Comments bold

You casted doubt by citing "fox news" as the source, when in fact the DOJ is the source of the data.ok great point that makes tons of difference in this discussion

When you oppose men when they push back against false rape accusations, that is the equivalent of saying it is ok for women to keep the boot-heel on men's neck retain the misandric process.where am i opposing men? I JUST quoted you an article about how men ARE pushing back and changing the legal landscape for this kind of thing. What I AM OPPOSING is that this is a common issue that is having a real impact on dating and men in general. It clearly is not. Lets spend our energy focused on improving ourselves instead of looking for justification for failure with women and trying to blame an infinitely small percentage of occurances as evidence that our society is collapsing.

Additionally, That 80,000 is only for convicted cases. So if a full 25% of convictions of rape are false.....which must undergo the highest rigor of "reasonable doubt".....how many of the accusations which do not end in conviction are false claims which ruin men's lives?

Twice as many, so go ahead and double .015% and let me know if you arrive at a statisically meaningful number. 40 out of 100 get reported to police, only ten of those result in arrest, and 8 get prosecuted, half of which are convicted (again, DoJ numbers used). Biiig numbers here danger.. And saying that someone being prosecuted and found not guilty is having their life ruined is a bit of a stretch.

You obviously have so much invested in this position that you'd never consider being wrong, so we're wasting each others time here. Moving on..

 

[zekko]

Being a DJ is not being a victim, it is taking control of yourself. It really isnt that hard to date smart and meet good women who dont do this kind of thing, as evidenced by the other 99.985% who never deal with this

No reason why you can't take control of yourself and still speak out against misandry and injustice. The feminist side certainly isn't going to stand on the sidelines with their mouths closed, they are definitely speaking out.

Besides, even if we go along with the idea that 99.985% of men don't have to deal with false rape charges, certainly more men's lives are affected by feminism, misandry, and biased media and legal systems.

Trying to blow it up into this big thing when clearly it isnt only serves as an excuse, and so we get posts with guys circle jerking each other over every story of a bad divorce or an injustice in the court system - "see thats why im not getting married, thats why im not dating, western women are fvcked up, the systems broken, etc.". No, they arent dating because they are terrified of women and have no experience and would rather complain about it on the internet.

I'm not getting married again because I AM experienced with women. I tried marriage once, and I still ended up divorced in spite of what I thought was very careful screening, years of spinning plates and "shopping around", and making sure the odds were in my favor. No matter though, I'm not bitter. I haven't given up women, I've just decided to live with my current LTR instead of marrying her.

 

[jurry]

Because this is a mens dating forum, you're wasting your and everyone elses time, and promoting posts about hatred and anger as opposed to improving with women. If you had any genuine interest in helping this "problem" youd be out there doing something about it instead of whining on a forum that has.. What 30 or 40 readers? Lol what a joke..

As i said many times it isnt my problem here, youre the one investing all the energy complaining about something that affects .015% of the male population, and I assume have been for many years now?

Go poll men on the streets or in this forum about how many have a problem dating due to the "misandric court system", you will be laughed at.

Keep on crusading though.. "Red pillers" unite!

 

[( . )( . )]

Because this is a mens dating forum, you're wasting your and everyone elses time, and promoting posts about hatred and anger as opposed to improving with women. If you had any genuine interest in helping this "problem" youd be out there doing something about it instead of whining on a forum that has.. What 30 or 40 readers? Lol what a joke..

That's rich. This coming from the stupid b!tch who despises those scary housewives and white men throughout history who dared to lay claim to their own creations? Dangers given solid advice for years here. All you've done is WHINE and bloviate over the fictitious "patriarchy". Oh and now the big bad manosphere!! DUN DUN DUUUUUN!!

Hereswhythatsaproblemwowjustwow!

 

[jurry]

Lol one comment about housewives being dumbasses and i "despise scary housewives", how many times are you going to use that?

Please point me to all of my whining about the patriarchy? I admit they do exist unlike you apparently.. But thats just how the world is! Just like that .015% of men getting false rape accusations that is destroying our society. How many of the top 100 richest americans are not over 40 white males or direct inheritants of their wealth? 10?

Pointing out facts is only for liberal pvssies though damn

 

[dasein]

Because this is a mens dating forum, you're wasting your and everyone elses time, and promoting posts about hatred and anger as opposed to improving with women. If you had any genuine interest in helping this "problem" youd be out there doing something about it instead of whining on a forum that has.. What 30 or 40 readers? Lol what a joke..

Wait a minute. You yourself started this thread as a whine about inconsistencies in something called the "manosphere," and you did so on a forum you claim has 30 or 40 readers? (I think there are many more). What you are doing here seems to be complaining about others who complain and attempting to pre-discount their complaints as part of making... your own complaint. How does THAT kind of masturbatory exercise in futility do anyone any good?

You didn't offer any specific definition of the manosphere, not much in the way of actual quotes or cites from it, no numerical claims , for example, "X% of the posts here are whining, and only Y% are about seduction." (By my rough estimate, a vast majority of the posts to this forum are about seduction or manly issues generally, not complaints about feminism or women) You did offer a few demonstrably false feminist platitudes in your OP, then get annoyed when people question those and seek to elaborate on that issue.

You could have targeted a specific post or attitude in a specific place, but you didn't do that. You basically emotionally vomited out a thread of no substance whatsoever, and just look at the crap nugget it has become. That's on -you- and no one else.

As i said many times it isnt my problem here, youre the one investing all the energy complaining about something that affects .015% of the male population, and I assume have been for many years now?

Arguendo, if there is a crab barrel here, you are not only squarely in it yourself, but built the barrel to boot.

Go poll men on the streets or in this forum about how many have a problem dating due to the "misandric court system", you will be laughed at.

Go poll people on the streets, and you will find that more than half of them believe in ghosts and bigfoot. So what? Since when is "what people on the street think" a criterion of what is true, or reasonable to discuss here? It's not, but your appeal to that kind of reasoning is very telling.

Keep on crusading though.. "Red pillers" unite!

Again, if there is a crusade represented in this thread, you are the one waging it. You started a silly, nebulous rant thread about something you didn't even bother to define or quantify in any way whatsoever, and now pages later, are thumbing your nose at the results of your own inability to frame and discuss an issue reasonably.

Who knows if there's a vagina between your legs or not, but there's definitely one between your ears.

 

[jurry]

Heyy another fact free piece of rubbish, I can tell you at least have a brain though dasein so i enjoy your posts.

Im not going to go through posts and get percentages lol, everyone knows what im talking about, as seen by the responses..

What everyday men will tell you is a reflection of the facts THAT I FOUND OUT FOR YOU ABOUT YOUR OWN BULLSHÎT WORLDVIEW THAT YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF! That most (almost all) men have no experience with a "misandric court system" or a feminist takeover of society, they date, they marry (or not), they live their lives and its pretty damn simple.

You are the ones who have convinced yourselves and continually propogate a worldview that you cant even support, and apparently havent even bothered to research.

I have no problem with the thread, it was made precisely to challenge this b.s. so maybe people will stop the threads complaining and having circle jerks off a non existent feminist takeover of government. We're ten pages in and still not one reasonable piece of evidence.. How long you guys wana go?

 

[( . )( . )]

Lol one comment about housewives being dumbasses and i "despise scary housewives"

Oh come now sugar tits your hatred for women who are not in a cubicle shuffling papers goes a little further than that.

A doormat cook with tits quickly bores me, but i guess a lot of men are still intimidated by the idea of a woman doing her own thing.

they dont need dumb supplicating doormats

not every guy needs a housewife who spends all her time sittin around trying to please her man

:box: A woman who raises her children and takes good care of her husband !! OH THE HUMANITY!!

Please point me to all of my whining about the patriarchy? I admit they do exist unlike you apparently

:crackup: They do exist, they are out there, twisting their moustaches just waiting to pounce.

RUNNNNNN!!! It's an old dead white guy with updated schematics for the cities potable water supply !! And another one thinks he can increase the power grids efficiency by half of a percent !! SAVE YOURSELVES!!!

 

[Who Dares Win]

Jurry you dont even try anymore to pretend you're not a woman? you dont even put the slight effort anymore, you just let whatever drips out of your prolapsed 'gina?

You got the "intimidate men", you got the crusade against "patriarchy", false rape accusation and misandryc system denial(of course data provided from danger is not relevat against your feelings), many other random clichè straight from cosmo...wtf sis at least bother to learn how to troll properly or mr t1ts hurt your feelingz and you failed to hold your hot flashes?

The only circle jerk here is the one you do dressed in pijama with your fat girl friends and your confused skinnyfat guys where you pass your vanilla ice cream bowl around and eat from the same spoon.