The Difference between dating a prospect and a friend.

MacAvoy

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Ez, heres the OP

JackPrescott said:
Heres the scenario, and I'm almost 1000 percent sure that the ladies of that other Website will disagree vehmenently.

I ask a woman to a concert. It's a date, that I am asking her out on, not anything but that. She wants to go, but tells me that she is still hurting for the penis of her ex, who dumped her like yesterdays garbage 2 months ago. So for now, she sees all men as "Just Friends"
At this point, he should have bailed instead of trying to be her friend. My point was what does she offer him as a friend? How is it to his advantage? What does he gain?

JackPrescott said:
"No problems, no worries" says Jack. Tix for the show are 69.95, and unless you want to drive, I need 15 bucks for gas, and be sure and bring some money to eat, and have some frozen drinks too, so we can have a good time.
When he does this, he comes off as a hugely immature & AFC for asking for gas money because he got rejected. Like I said, he should have bailed after hearing of her love for her ex. By acting petty & asking for gas money, this isn't going to put him in the right light to get future action from her or get her to have her put in a positive words with friends.

JackPrescott said:
Different Scenario. I ask a woman to a concert. It's a date that I am asking her out on, not anything but that. She wants to go, and tells me that she would love to go, and she is sure that we will have a great time. I ask her to wear some daisy dukes for me, and she agrees.

She doesnt pay for anything.

Thoughts, and feedback?
Now whats wrong with this scenario, is that he's paying $100+ and he's expecting to get pvssy. He says so because a few posts later he says that if she doesn't put out, he's making her walk home. Now tell me, is that how a DJ acts?

I've got no problem for paying for women however I only do it for girls that I've already banged, not for women that I am woo'ing. I'll also do it for my friends but thats a different story.
 

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Rollo Tomassi said:
Do not be so ready to assume women are deceptive liars. Your frustration in this comes from your lack of understanding HOW men and women communicate.

What men need to understand is that both sexes communicate differently, accept that and work with it instead of against it. In study after study it's been proven that women have a far greater, inborn capacity for language and communication than do men. While more than a few women like to wear this as a badge of some kind of superiority, it doesn't necessarily mean that what they communicate is more important, or how they communicate it is more efficient, just that they have a greater capacity to understand nuances of communication better than do men.

Men have a natural tendency to be OVERT in their communication. We say what we mean and we mean what we say. Our focus in communicating tends to be on the information or the content of what is being communicated. We prefer the deductive in our reasoning, but that's not to say we can't understand implied meanings - it's simply not what we default to in communications.

Women on the other hand opt for COVERT communication. Her focus is on the context of what is being communicated, the feeling implied with the message. And again that isn't to say the content is unimportant, but rather not the primary focus as a default.

This disconnect in communication preference is one of the primary reasons men and women become frustrated with each other. Women see men as simplistic and blunt whereas men see women as fickle, indecisive and at worst duplicitous when they don't get their implied meanings. we call them crazy.

Women are crazy, but they're crazy like foxes. Covert communication frustrates men every bit as much as overt communication frustrates women. Our language has no art to it for them, that's why we seem dumb or simple at best. This is the same reason we think of feminine communication as being obfuscating, confusing, even random. The difference is that our confusion and frustration is put to their ultimate use. So long as women remain unknowable, random, irrational creatures that men can't hope to understand (but can always excuse), they can operate unhindered towards their goals. "Silly boy, you'll never understand women, just give up" is exactly the M.O. Once you accept this she's earned a lifetime of get-out-of-jail-free cards. The myth of the 'Feminine Mystique' is entirely dependent upon this covert communication.

Now as Men we'll say "Evil, immoral, manipulative woman! Shape up and do the right thing, saying one thing then doing another makes you a hypocrite!" and of course this is our rational nature overtly making itself heard and exposing a woman's covert communication. An appeal to morality, that'll get her, but,..it doesn't. This is because women instinctively know that their sexuality is their first, best agency, and covert communication is the best method to utilize it. The very fact that the truism of "just communicate and you'll have a good relationship" is a testament to this when men will parrot it back as some affirmation that they're on board with women's communicative style.

Have you ever been in a social setting, maybe a party or something, with a GF or even a woman you may be dating and seemingly out of the blue she says to you privately, "ooh, did you see the dirty look that b!tch just gave me?!" You were right their in her physical presence, saw the girl she was talking about, yet didn't register a thing. Women's natural preference for covert communication is recognizable by as early as 5 years old. They prefer to fight in the psychological, whereas boys fight in the physical. Within their own peer group, little girls fight for dominance with the threat of ostricization from the group. "I wont be your friend anymore if,.." is just as much a threat to a girl as "I'm gonna punch you in the face if,.." is to a boy. This dynamic becomes much more complex as girls enter puberty, adolescence and adulthood, yet they still use the same psychological mode of combat. Their covert way of communicating this using innuendo, body language, appearance, subcommunications, gestures, etc., conveys far more information than our overt, all on the table, way of communicating does. It may seem more efficient to us as Men, but our method doesn't serve the same purpose.

I'm fond of saying 'let a woman's imagination work for you', but this is really a reversal of what women have been doing for ages - covertly giving men just enough information to spark their imaginations. When an AFC vomits out his life's story all over the restaurant table on a first date, calls her incessantly to drone on for hours and then gets LJBFed, this is really little more than a conflict of communication methodologies. He wants to solve his problem of needing sex and does so by overtly blurting out as much information as he can to meet her approval - since he of course believes that women want complete disclosure and openess from the start (yet another fatal miscommunication). He can't help it. He's only using his natural deductive reasoning to solve his problem and coveys it overtly.

She on the other hand enjoys the communication more than the information being transferred. It's not a problem to be solved, it's the communication itself that's of primary importance. When our AFC supplies her with everything all at once she thinks, yeah, the mystery is gone, he's not a challenge anymore, why would she be interested? This is true, but the reason that intrigue is gone is because there's no more potential for stimulating that need for communication or her imagination.

Lastly I should add that women are not above using overt communication when it serves their purposes. When a woman comes out and says something in a fashion so as to leave no margin for misinterpretation, you can bet she's been pushed to that point out of either fear or sheer exasperation when her covert methods wont work. "Can we just be friends?" is a covert rejection, "Get away from me you creep!!" is an overt rejection. When a woman opts for the overt, rest assured, she's out of covert ideas. This is an easy example of this, but when a woman cries on you, screams at you, or issues an ultimatum to you she is powerless to the point of having to come over to your way of communicating.

Likewise, men can and do master the art of covert communications as well. Great politicians, military generals, businessmen, salesmen to be sure, and of course master PUAs all use covert communications to achieve their goals. It's incorrect to think of covert communication as dishonest or amoral, or even in a moral context. It's a means to an end, just as overt communication is a means to an end, and that end whether decided by men or women is what's ethical or unethical.
I am a great physical fighter, but an even better psychological fighter. Thats why a lot of Attention Wh*ores and "LJBF" flakes cannot stomach me. Because I can easily fight on their level. These are the women that get left walking at 12am in the middle of a venue's parking lot in a strange city.

REAL women interested in dates? A long enjoyable ride home, and a lingering kiss goodnight, and sometimes an invitation for a late nite glass of wine, and all that implies.
 

Gangster Of Love

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ezily said:
wait, so you would take this chick-friend even after she told you she wasn't interested in dating you just because you had offered? So if you ask a girl you have interest in to go and she says that she will, but she has absolutely no sexual interest in you, only likes you as a friend, and wants you to pay for everything... you'd be up for that?
No. Platonic friends. Girls I am no longer dating (who I turned into fans). Girls I am already sleeping with. Male friends. etc. Not dates. Not new plates or girls I am trying to impress. I like to go to concerts with friends who are actually into the music, not with "dates", and if I do take dates, it is people I am already sleeping with or I'm about. I do preffer friends that are fans of the artist, then my next choice is to go alone. If I invite a "date" or somebody I am already involved with, I have no problem paying.

ezily said:
I don't think any guy would go for that lame **** unless he was a huge AFC (which there are a lot of today). But if she gave you that LJGF on the date then you really don't have a choice. There's different ways to handle it. If she got in the car after you paid and then she gives that line to you then you can just opt out of going and try to quickly sell the tickets. That's what I would do. I seriously wouldn't waste all that time and money on a girl who doesn't really like me.
I wouldn't get the LJBF after inviting her to a concert, because I wouldn't invite anybody like that to a concert. I would screen her, date her, kiss her, and/or bed her before she would get an invitation. AFC's are the one's who are inviting girls to expensive concerts when they don't even know that the girl is not interested. Or worse yet, even after they know she is not interested. Forget that. If you can't pick out the ones that are very interested/attracted from the ones that are just for the ride, then you have no business toyin' with the idea of taking "dates" to concerts.

My objection was to him inviting a "date" wether she is or is not interested, to a concert. Even if she's interested, I would not take just anybody to a concert. I don't fvck around when it comes to my music. Dammitt!!!


ezily said:
Girls say they like to have guys as friends but that's all crap. they can drop their guy friends and never even miss them as soon as they're gone. It's a load of ****. They care about their girl-friends and bfs, not the guys who follow them around or the guys they use (not for anything sexually related).

Again, most of the time I go with friends who are already fans, everyone is paying their own way, because they want to see the artist, and they're just joining me; they know I would and have gone alone to shows; and it is usually in groups. Not on a "date". Big difference.
 

ezily

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MacAvoy said:
Ez, heres the OP



At this point, he should have bailed instead of trying to be her friend. My point was what does she offer him as a friend? How is it to his advantage? What does he gain?

Agree here

When he does this, he comes off as a hugely immature & AFC for asking for gas money because he got rejected. Like I said, he should have bailed after hearing of her love for her ex. By acting petty & asking for gas money, this isn't going to put him in the right light to get future action from her or get her to have her put in a positive words with friends.

Agree here as well. He should have just bailed on her before (thus not making himself out to be AFC) instead of still trying to get her to go which is essentially what you said. IMO he's just wasting his time with this chick.

Now whats wrong with this scenario, is that he's paying $100+ and he's expecting to get pvssy. He says so because a few posts later he says that if she doesn't put out, he's making her walk home. Now tell me, is that how a DJ acts?

You are correct. That is not how a DJ would act, especially since she told him upfront that she just wants to be his friend. If he found out after or during the date then making her walk home is lame and AFC.

I've got no problem for paying for women however I only do it for girls that I've already banged, not for women that I am woo'ing. I'll also do it for my friends but thats a different story.

Do you pay for your female friends as well as your male friends? I just don't agree with doing that but if you do then then that's cool. I just doubt I would unless I had a lot of money.
btw thanks for clearing this up.
 

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Gangster Of Love said:
No. Platonic friends. Girls I am no longer dating (who I turned into fans). Girls I am already sleeping with. Male friends. etc. Not dates. Not new plates or girls I am trying to impress. I like to go to concerts with friends who are actually into the music, not with "dates", and if I do take dates, it is people I am already sleeping with or I'm about. I do preffer friends that are fans of the artist, then my next choice is to go alone. If I invite a "date" or somebody I am already involved with, I have no problem paying.

OK yeah I just read your post wrong on this point. But would you still pay for a female-friend I guess was my question? I wouldn't. I treat them the same as male friends.

I wouldn't get the LJBF after inviting her to a concert, because I wouldn't invite anybody like that to a concert. I would screen her, date her, kiss her, and/or bed her before she would get an invitation. AFC's are the one's who are inviting girls to expensive concerts when they don't even know that the girl is not interested. Or worse yet, even after they know she is not interested. Forget that. If you can't pick out the ones that are very interested/attracted from the ones that are just for the ride, then you have no business toyin' with the idea of taking "dates" to concerts.

yep good point. That's a too expensive for a girl you don't know really well.

My objection was to him inviting a "date" wether she is or is not interested, to a concert. Even if she's interested, I would not take just anybody to a concert. I don't fvck around when it comes to my music. Dammitt!!!





Again, most of the time I go with friends who are already fans, everyone is paying their own way, because they want to see the artist, and they're just joining me; they know I would and have gone alone to shows; and it is usually in groups. Not on a "date". Big difference.
Yeah so I see what you were trying to say now. And yes I think we are on essentially the same page with this issue. I just framed my initial posts with a lack of understanding of what your point was.
 

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I would pay, split, and/or have them pay, when it comes to friends. Doesn't matter if they are male or female. Done every possible scenario. It is never an issue. It is an issue when it is a new plate or "date", and I'm ok with paying, etc. if I want to, but haven't done it in years.
 

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ezily said:
Do you pay for your female friends as well as your male friends? I just don't agree with doing that but if you do then then that's cool. I just doubt I would unless I had a lot of money.
I don't like to lend money, so this is my take. Now I don't ever go out of my way to pay for a friend, I never offer out of the blue, but if there is an event going on, I want to go, my friend doesn't have the coin, I'll pay. However I'm very open and not afraid, I expect and demand the same. I have money tied up at times and don't always have a tonne of liquid cash so sometimes I rely on my friends. Likewise if I go to my friends house, I'll grab a beer from the fridge without asking.

What makes this work though is that I don't really have any orbiters, your either a close friend and in the circle or you don't get any benefits.
 

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MacAvoy said:
I don't like to lend money, so this is my take. Now I don't ever go out of my way to pay for a friend, I never offer out of the blue, but if there is an event going on, I want to go, my friend doesn't have the coin, I'll pay. However I'm very open and not afraid, I expect and demand the same. I have money tied up at times and don't always have a tonne of liquid cash so sometimes I rely on my friends. Likewise if I go to my friends house, I'll grab a beer from the fridge without asking.

What makes this work though is that I don't really have any orbiters, your either a close friend and in the circle or you don't get any benefits.
Exactly. Once someone is in your circle of friends, you take care of eachother and it is never an issue. Things balance out.
 

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MacAvoy said:
Ez, heres the OP



At this point, he should have bailed instead of trying to be her friend. My point was what does she offer him as a friend? How is it to his advantage? What does he gain?



When he does this, he comes off as a hugely immature & AFC for asking for gas money because he got rejected. Like I said, he should have bailed after hearing of her love for her ex. By acting petty & asking for gas money, this isn't going to put him in the right light to get future action from her or get her to have her put in a positive words with friends.



Now whats wrong with this scenario, is that he's paying $100+ and he's expecting to get pvssy. He says so because a few posts later he says that if she doesn't put out, he's making her walk home. Now tell me, is that how a DJ acts?

I've got no problem for paying for women however I only do it for girls that I've already banged, not for women that I am woo'ing. I'll also do it for my friends but thats a different story.
EZ, disagreed, 110% he is dead assed wrong as usual.

AFC would have been still paying for the Attention Wh0re after she LJBF'd me (Theoretically). I am simply a man generous with my companionship. If she wants to go as "just friends" I am a good enough human being to accept it, as long as it's "waiter, seperate checks" There would be no future action, and as far as her friends? If one of them really wanted to fukk me, she could care less how cheap I was with the competiton. This is part of the Catty Nature of females.

I'm paying 100 bucks plus for a DATE. I never said I would leave her walking if she acted as a date, I didnt say **** about pvssy. If she allows my hands and mouth to roam during the show, but doesnt want to copulate, it's all good. IF she tells me "I am feeling uncomfortable with you doing that, I just want to be friends" as I cop a feel, I will simply hand her the business card of the Acme Cab Company, and tell her, Have a nice life, you flake" in the parking lot after the show. Thats the real OP, there EZ.
 

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You poor b@stard.


You really just rushed things didn't you? You honestly didn't have enough evidence to show that she was truly interested in you.

You didn't read her well enough to understand the variables of her situation.

Did she have physical contact with you before you asked her on "the date" (if you want to call it that.)? You kiss her before on a prior date? Did she want to go out again? Did she spring the ex boyfriend thing on you before you asked her to the concert? Or after you asked? Did you know about it?

Did you even consider that you might have been there to fill a small hole in her life from her ex? Did you try to be a badass and TRY to take advantage of her feelings of longing for her ex?

I'll tell you, my second dates ONLY happen if...:


1. we make out by the end of the first date.
2. we have our hands all over each other by the end of the first date.
3. I make plans for the second date and she happily agrees. (because we KNOW what we'll be getting into)
4. we don't make out or touch but says she is definitely romantically interested and wants another date to see if things progress. (I usually don't do this, but I like to give chances. I don't invest much in #4 either. Sometimes it happens.:up: )

I DON'T HAVE A SECOND DATE IF:

1. We don't make out by the end of the first date
2. We don't touch at all on the first date
3. She doesn't seem physically attracted to me on the first date
4. If she talks about HAVING FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE ELSE

A lot of these posters are right when they say she was being honest with you. Not really any type of covert communication on her part.

So tell me, Jackie boy. Which step or steps did you skip?

You ARE acting sore because she turned you down. Now you want to disqualify her and make her pay for it.

Wow.

Again, why spend so much on a girl who doesn't seem interested in you in the first place?

Last week I spent 6 bucks on two small iced teas at the coffee bean.

We were all over each other by the end of the night. Why?

BECAUSE IT WASN'T ABOUT THE FRIGGIN' COFFEE, U N00B!! I honestly think you wanted to go the "If I spend more she's sure to be more interested" route. You used money as a source of interest. Bad move, bra.
 

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JackPrescott said:
EZ, disagreed, 110% he is dead assed wrong as usual.
You need to learn how to read my friend. Yes EZ was originally agreeing with you, then he sided with the rest of us once he read the thread a little closer.

ezily said:
Yeah so I see what you were trying to say now. And yes I think we are on essentially the same page with this issue. I just framed my initial posts with a lack of understanding of what your point was.
You've got a lot to work on bud. Your biggest problem is your attitude, you've got 3 pages here of experienced guys trying to help you improve for the future and all your doing is acting like a school girl getting all worked up because you don't like what someone said to you.
 

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HalfAddict said:
Even if it was a date, she's still payin her own ****, this isn't the nineteen fifties.

You're missing the point.

He offered to pay. Then he took that offer off the table because he got rejected.

Yes, this isn't the 1950s but he went back on what he said he was going to do..

...because he got his feelings hurt.
 

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JackPrescott said:
Heres the scenario, and I'm almost 1000 percent sure that the ladies of that other Website will disagree vehmenently.

I ask a woman to a concert. It's a date, that I am asking her out on, not anything but that. She wants to go, but tells me that she is still hurting for the penis of her ex, who dumped her like yesterdays garbage 2 months ago. So for now, she sees all men as "Just Friends"

"No problems, no worries" says Jack. Tix for the show are 69.95, and unless you want to drive, I need 15 bucks for gas, and be sure and bring some money to eat, and have some frozen drinks too, so we can have a good time.

Different Scenario. I ask a woman to a concert. It's a date that I am asking her out on, not anything but that. She wants to go, and tells me that she would love to go, and she is sure that we will have a great time. I ask her to wear some daisy dukes for me, and she agrees.

She doesnt pay for anything.

Thoughts, and feedback?
Unless that woman is ALREADY intimate with me...I would not spend that kind of $$$ on an event such as a concert with her.
 

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ThunderMaverick said:
You're missing the point.

He offered to pay. Then he took that offer off the table because he got rejected.

Yes, this isn't the 1950s but he went back on what he said he was going to do..

...because he got his feelings hurt.
Totally agree with you.
 

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JackPrescott said:
EZ, disagreed, 110% he is dead assed wrong as usual.

AFC would have been still paying for the Attention Wh0re after she LJBF'd me (Theoretically). I am simply a man generous with my companionship. If she wants to go as "just friends" I am a good enough human being to accept it, as long as it's "waiter, seperate checks" There would be no future action, and as far as her friends? If one of them really wanted to fukk me, she could care less how cheap I was with the competiton. This is part of the Catty Nature of females.

I'm paying 100 bucks plus for a DATE. I never said I would leave her walking if she acted as a date, I didnt say **** about pvssy. If she allows my hands and mouth to roam during the show, but doesnt want to copulate, it's all good. IF she tells me "I am feeling uncomfortable with you doing that, I just want to be friends" as I cop a feel, I will simply hand her the business card of the Acme Cab Company, and tell her, Have a nice life, you flake" in the parking lot after the show. Thats the real OP, there EZ.
You don't handle rejection very well at all, do you? You have self-esteem issues. So a woman telling you she is uncomfortable with your dirty groping is a flake?? So she deserves to "walk home in a strange city?"

I've said it before and I'll say it again...you sound like a real fvckin prize.:up:
 

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ThunderMaverick said:
You're missing the point.

He offered to pay. Then he took that offer off the table because he got rejected.

Yes, this isn't the 1950s but he went back on what he said he was going to do..

...because he got his feelings hurt.
You need "Hooked on Phonics" so you can learn to read better. I asked her ON A DATE. Do you get that at all, or do we need to go over what the fukk a date is? A date is a ROMANTIC interaction between two potentially interested people for the cause of furthering the rapport, and to see if there is potential for a relationship. Did you get that ThunderMoron? Thats about as plain and simple as I can spell it out for your mongoloid ass. I didnt get my feelings hurt, as I had no use for the cu-nt as of yet.

ONCE she (hypothetically) pulled the nauseating "LJBF" crap, she took the word "date" out of the picture. The event, in this case a concert, now is some weird, almost indescribable eunich like, brotherly-sisterly Catholic Choirboy picnic. It is no longer a date, but a man, and a sexually uninterested woman merely hanging out. I am not assholish enough to uninvite her, however. BUT the rules now change. I for one REFUSE to shell out 8 cents for her uninterested ass. She is like a regular male friend at this point, she pays her own way, including 1/2 of the gas. Period.
 

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SunnyD said:
You don't handle rejection very well at all, do you? You have self-esteem issues. So a woman telling you she is uncomfortable with your dirty groping is a flake?? So she deserves to "walk home in a strange city?"

I've said it before and I'll say it again...you sound like a real fvckin prize.:up:
No, it's not that at all. If a woman wants to be with me, she gets treated like a queen. If a woman doesnt want to be with me, she gets treated like a filthy panhandler.
 

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ThunderMaverick said:
You poor b@stard.


You really just rushed things didn't you? You honestly didn't have enough evidence to show that she was truly interested in you.

You didn't read her well enough to understand the variables of her situation.

Did she have physical contact with you before you asked her on "the date" (if you want to call it that.)? You kiss her before on a prior date? Did she want to go out again? Did she spring the ex boyfriend thing on you before you asked her to the concert? Or after you asked? Did you know about it?

Did you even consider that you might have been there to fill a small hole in her life from her ex? Did you try to be a badass and TRY to take advantage of her feelings of longing for her ex?

I'll tell you, my second dates ONLY happen if...:


1. we make out by the end of the first date.
2. we have our hands all over each other by the end of the first date.
3. I make plans for the second date and she happily agrees. (because we KNOW what we'll be getting into)
4. we don't make out or touch but says she is definitely romantically interested and wants another date to see if things progress. (I usually don't do this, but I like to give chances. I don't invest much in #4 either. Sometimes it happens.:up: )

I DON'T HAVE A SECOND DATE IF:

1. We don't make out by the end of the first date
2. We don't touch at all on the first date
3. She doesn't seem physically attracted to me on the first date
4. If she talks about HAVING FEELINGS FOR SOMEONE ELSE

A lot of these posters are right when they say she was being honest with you. Not really any type of covert communication on her part.

So tell me, Jackie boy. Which step or steps did you skip?

You ARE acting sore because she turned you down. Now you want to disqualify her and make her pay for it.

Wow.

Again, why spend so much on a girl who doesn't seem interested in you in the first place?

Last week I spent 6 bucks on two small iced teas at the coffee bean.

We were all over each other by the end of the night. Why?

BECAUSE IT WASN'T ABOUT THE FRIGGIN' COFFEE, U N00B!! I honestly think you wanted to go the "If I spend more she's sure to be more interested" route. You used money as a source of interest. Bad move, bra.
MORONS!!! This is a HYPOTHETICAL situation, I made up to simply make a point about Attention Wh0res and LJBF Flakes. I said I treat a DATE differently than a woman who "friendszones" me. HYPOTHETICALLY. But it seems here that all the males and females here seem to absolutley ADORE and WORSHIP Attention Wh0res and LJBF flakes. I never will, I still treat those two species of females like human waste.
 
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