Stick at it or give up?

[Eddie417]

The thing that gets me, is the undertone that's set here that being faithful is somehow an AFC trait. That being faithful, a man of your word and honor, will somehow get you pushed to the back of the food line in a world where everyone is out for themselves.

For the record, as the OP I certainly don't feel that way, any more than I feel that having an affair makes you a DJ. Of course this thread stopped being about my own situation a long time ago haha. Looks like folks around here have some stuff of their own to work out.

 

[cordoncordon]

For the record, as the OP I certainly don't feel that way, any more than I feel that having an affair makes you a DJ. Of course this thread stopped being about my own situation a long time ago haha. Looks like folks around here have some stuff of their own to work out.

Eddie your ability for self denial is legendary.

Something to be proud of.

 

[Eddie417]

Back to the original question:
Should you try to rekindle the relationship with your..."girlfriend"?

Interesting choice of words. That's one of the things she was upset about. I wouldn't refer to her as my girlfriend.

And I need to 'fess up to a couple of things. We were arguing when she pulled the plug. What were we arguing about? The fact that I had made excuses to avoid intimacy the last half a dozen times we had an opportunity to be together. I had lost my interest. So she says "fine you can't have it anymore" in a fit of pique and all of a sudden my interest comes back.

I'm such a schmuck haha. At least I see it.

 

[azanon]

The thing that gets me, is the undertone that's set here that being faithful is somehow an AFC trait. That being faithful, a man of your word and honor, will somehow get you pushed to the back of the food line in a world where everyone is out for themselves.

Maybe that's true, but I'll tell you, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Like str8up said, the worst feeling is when she passes up 'opportunities' when you didn't. I don't see it that way, I see it as manning up and having the strength to do what's right for each as of us as individuals.

So, it's not about casting judgement here, it's about understanding that each one of us is different, and morality in itself can make a person a better man, not an AFC.

Mr. Positive,

Nothing I've said, I feel creates any undertone that being faithful is AFC. If you disagree, please identify specifically what I said that did this so that I can quickly and easily clear up this misunderstanding.

When I speak up on this issue in various threads, it is only for the purpose of helping people understand why adultery can happen under many circumstances, including simply giving in to sexual desires. If anything is unnatural, Marriage/monogamy is unnatural. Humans are not completely instinctual; we're just too damn smart to be limited by instinct. That being said, we are neither monogamous by nature, nor polygamous by nature. We have free will and can be exactly what we choose to be and none of us are alike.

If you feel something Str8up said created an undertone that being faithful is AFC, I would kindly ask that you quote him instead of me when you speak out against it.

 

[azanon]

For the record, as the OP I certainly don't feel that way, any more than I feel that having an affair makes you a DJ. Of course this thread stopped being about my own situation a long time ago haha. Looks like folks around here have some stuff of their own to work out.

Just so you know, I gave into drifting the topic from your specific issue simply because I thought you were satisfied to try my suggestion for your specific situation.

I saw your follow-up post regarding your consideration to make her simply a friend only. It is my experience that this will not work and will just provide her additional opportunities for her to lobby for what she wants all the while you don't get sex with her. She was your lover. That's all she should ever be to you.

In any event, based on what you originally said, I continue to strongly advise that you move on. If your mindset is that you'd still like to have a mistress, you need a new one now.

Cordon's personal attacks aside, I agree with the views that the best option is if you could find ways to improve your marriage such that you are content without an affair. Your happiness is important (as is everyone's), so strive to find happiness the safest ways that hurt the least amount of people, and go from there.

 

[Eddie417]

I can't comment on Cordon's attacks, haven't actually seen them.

I hear you on the lovers to friends thing. For someone that claims she doesn't want to be lovers anymore she gets pretty messed up whenever we talk. I'm the one that has said no to being friends but has relented as she has tempted me with glimpses of that insane level of devotion.. Truth be told, I've done a lot of soul-searching and I think the appeal for me on this ended a long time ago, why else would I be passing on opportunities to be together? She obviously realized that. I think I got addicted to the devotion, the absolute control I had over this lady. She took it away and I suffered withdrawal. That ain't love, that's addiction.

I'm not looking for a new one, wasn't looking when I met this one. It was a dark period in my marriage that has passed. I should have bailed a long time ago when I made the decision to stay where I was.

This dog's gonna stay in the yard for a while. I got under the fence and almost got hit by a car the last time I got out

 

[azanon]

It was a dark period in my marriage that has passed.

Just wanted to note you and I (potentially) differ on this mindset; that being the presumption that marriages and affairs are intricately linked in such a way that affairs mean that there's trouble with the marriage. In my opinion, they can be mutually exclusive for some people and thus not indicative of either a bad or good marriage. The reason for this is that sex and love are mutually exclusive, and there are 100s upon thousands of examples of this truth. Wives don't necessarily fall out of love with their impotent men, and men don't necessarily fall out of love with their frigid wives.

To rephrase in lamens terms so I'm not misunderstood, its possible to have a happy, positive marriage and an affair at the same time. Affairs can be a suppliment to a successful marriage, or even an enhancement. JUDITH E. BRANDT addressed this truth in her book "The 50-Mile Rule". I haven't actually read it, but I read a review of it and it was noted that this topic was discussed in the book.

 

[cordoncordon]

Of course you can have a happy marriage, at least superficially and for a short duration, if you are cheating and your spouse doesn't know about it. I mean you get to have your cake and eat it to right? But how happy can things be if you are cheating? Betraying a trust that your spouse has in you? I would imagine if the spouse ever found out about the infidelity, things wouldn't be so happy. Plus, if you are cheating, there is obviously something in your marriage you are not getting fulfilled.

I'm not sitting here saying that it is a law that you have to be faithful to your wife, but when you get married, its basically a contract. And part of that contract implies that you will be faithful to your wife. So she goes into this marriage believing you will be true to her. By cheating, you are breaking that contract, so then why get married if you can't live up to your word?

 

[Mr.Positive]

Of course you can have a happy marriage, at least superficially and for a short duration, if you are cheating and your spouse doesn't know about it. I mean you get to have your cake and eat it to right? But how happy can things be if you are cheating? Betraying a trust that your spouse has in you? I would imagine if the spouse ever found out about the infidelity, things wouldn't be so happy. Plus, if you are cheating, there is obviously something in your marriage you are not getting fulfilled.

I'm not sitting here saying that it is a law that you have to be faithful to your wife, but when you get married, its basically a contract. And part of that contract implies that you will be faithful to your wife. So she goes into this marriage believing you will be true to her. By cheating, you are breaking that contract, so then why get married if you can't live up to your word?

I agree 100%. However, the marriage 'contract' as we see it (here on sosuave) apparently can be bent to fit whatever situation a lot of us have. Infidelity isn't 'wrong' when it's the guy that's cheating, however you take that guy's wife, if she cheats...oh that's wrong.

Guys...bottom line, all morality aside..if you will or have cheated on your wife, you have to accept that it's ok for your wife to cheat on you.

It's an open marriage. I'm sure a lot of marriages work this way, so who am I to judge. But if you cheat on your wife, don't complain if you find out she cheats on you.

 

[Mr.Positive]

Mr. Positive,

Nothing I've said, I feel creates any undertone that being faithful is AFC. If you disagree, please identify specifically what I said that did this so that I can quickly and easily clear up this misunderstanding..

You are right..my bad. I didn't mean to single you out Azanon..

 

[cordoncordon]

I agree Mr. Positive. If it was a woman doing this cheating behind her husbands back, she would be called everything from a slvt to a cheating she wh0re. Guys would be telling her she doesn't deserve her husband and should take her cheating azz out of the marriage. But because its a guy doing it, some here think it's "cool".

 

[Eddie417]

To rephrase in lamens terms so I'm not misunderstood, its possible to have a happy, positive marriage and an affair at the same time. Affairs can be a suppliment to a successful marriage, or even an enhancement. JUDITH E. BRANDT addressed this truth in her book "The 50-Mile Rule". I haven't actually read it, but I read a review of it and it was noted that this topic was discussed in the book.

I would agree with this sentiment with the caveat that that is a best-case scenario and not the norm. I lived it for 3 years and my friend was a huge supporter of my marriage, I know that sounds odd, but when your mistress tells you to smarten up and go home and make love to your wife 'cuz you're being too judgemental, it's pretty mind-blowing.

Problems arose when her own started going sour and she began to look to me for more than sex and good conversation and I wasn't on the same page.

Being able to come in here and discuss the situation has been great for helping me regain my perspective. Dissect it enough and it loses it's magic, giving you the ability to objectively view the situation for what it is, be it positive or negative.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

You probably have me on ignore, but what you take as moralizing or personal attacks, others, like me, take as being an upstanding human being. You choose to ignore those criticizing you because you know deep down you are wrong and cannot bear to face the full consequences of your actions.

But hey, if you want to cheat on the mother of your children, which you have every week for three years, so this was hardly a moment of weakness or a ONS and you knew full well what you were doing, then do what you gotta.

You're pathetic.

Harsh, but i agree.

So do you really think your family won't find out, Eddie?

 

[MacAvoy]

Harsh, but i agree.

So do you really think your family won't find out, Eddie?

Thunder,

Do you really think he's going to change what he does because YOU were sad when your mommy wasn't women enough to please her man?

 

[cordoncordon]

Thunder,

Do you really think he's going to change what he does because YOU were sad when your mommy wasn't women enough to please her man?

Macavoy...you're a d1ck.

The end.

 

[MacAvoy]

Macavoy...you're a d1ck.

And proud of it

 

[MacAvoy]

Even the great Rollo condones cheating. Surely whats good for the goose is good for the gander. If RT is correct, a women will cheat, and to paraphrase Str8up I believe, the worst feeling in the world is passing up opportunities only to find out that she didn't

Cheating

For this dynamic and the practicality of enjoying the best of both genetic worlds, women find it necessary to 'cheat'. This cheating can be done proactively or reactively.

In the reactive model, a woman who has already paired with her long term partner choice, engages in an extramarital or outside-pairing, sexual intercourse with a short term partner (i.e. the classic cheating wife or girlfriend). That's not to say this short term opportunity cannot develop into a 2nd, long term mate, but the action itself is a method for securing better genetic stock (by her perception) than the committed male provider is capable of supplying.

Proactive cheating is the single Mommy dillema. This form of 'cheating' relies on the woman breeding with a Good Genes male, bearing his children and then abandoning him, or having him abandon her, (again through invented social conventions) in order to find a Good Dad male to provide for her and the children of her Good Genes partner to ensure their security. The feminine facilitates this through invented social mores that positively affirm a man for "stepping up to the plate" and helping the "poor woman victimized by the villainous ex" share in a parental investment that was never his burden.

I want to stress again that (most) women do not have some consciously recognized, master plan to enact this cycle and deliberately trap men into it. Rather the motivations for this behavior and the accompanying rationales invented to justify it are an unconscious process. It's my belief that for the most part, women are unaware of this dynamic, but are nonetheless subject to it's influence. For a female of any species to facilitate a methodology for breeding with the best genetic partner she's able to attract AND to ensure her own and her offspring's survival by pairing with the best provisioning partner; this is an evolutionary jackpot.

 

[cordoncordon]

And proud of it

Of course you are.

How's the threesomes with the guy and a girl workin' out for ya? Gay.

 

[MacAvoy]

How's the threesomes with the guy and a girl workin' out for ya? Gay.

So does your morality compass say its ok to call people names? How mature. LOL ooh my feelings are hurt cuz you called me gay. At least I'm man enough to be confident in my sexuality.

edit: you must be christian/catholic from your preaching to the choir on one hand while being hypocritical with the other. At least I'm consistantly a d1ck.

 

[cordoncordon]

Actually calling you gay is not calling you names. It's just a fact. I mean you do get naked with other men and cross swords. You stated that. Gay.

Secondly, I don't believe in any religion, organized or unorganized. The bible is the biggest fallacy known to mankind. We came from dust particles, and that is where we will end up. All part of the evolutionary process.