Stick at it or give up?

[azanon]

Here's how what you said felt to me Eddie:

It sounds to me like your mistress is testing you with the claim that she's leaving her husband, the claim to cut off the physical, and pretty much all of the other drama/back-and-forth you're seeing now. My guess would be that she has decided she wants to swap her husband for you, and that she'd like to see you leave your wife for her.

Sex is usually a means to an end for a woman. They really want a relationship, and if need be, they'll use sex to get it. I'm guessing she wants you 24/7 now, so she's going through emotional and manipulative loops to try to make that happen. That's why she balled like crazy after you "sent her packing" so to speak, despite saying she didn't want to have sex with you (you should have read; she didn't want to give you sex anymore without her getting what she wanted in return (you 24/7).

This all being said, you cannot go back to her not wanting all of you and just wanting the weekly sex. Once they flip that switch in their mind, you cannot go back. If you want to add an affair again, it needs to be with another woman. If you continue to play with fire with her, she will eventually just give up and possibly lash out at you, such as by telling on you to your wife. Yes, I'm sure you are aware as am I that your marriage could probably survive it, but still it would be a pain in the ass to have to deal with all the emotional issues your wife would have to go through.

So, the affair might have been fun, but they always have an ending. Your mistress' emotional change ended it. Try to drop out smoothly and not piss her off in the process. Remember, indifference is the most powerful hating weapon, and it should kill even her wanting you anymore. Use indifference to end the affair.

 

[Eddie417]

How long have you been in a sexless marriage?

Where did I say I was in a sexless marriage?

 

[jonwon]

I think you have a pritty good take on what is happening, i guess you have hovered over these boards for some time, its evident in your posts.

I am not going to offer any advice here, i think you know the answer to the questions your asking all ready, i just think you need confirmation of your choices.

Marriage to me, does not mean that much, so i wont take the moral high ground, simply because i have, what some consider a jaded outlook on it, but what ever you decide to do at least protect your children, this is the only concern from me, they should not be 'hurt' in any of this and reason i shy away from marriage, is i would never want to intentionally hurt my offspring.

This should be your first point of reference, all else is secondry, thats the price we pay for bring in kids into this world, they are in all respects, innocent in what ever is going on and they should not have to be dragged down or subjected to bitter resentment from either parent, if they stick together or not.

Not that your marriage may last, i dont know, i know of many a married couple where your story is familier (wife or Husband) but what seems to happen is the kids are usually the casualty of the choices.

Not saying your choices are wrong, but i would be tackling this from there angle and there angle only, then choose the best situation for you, but to me they would always be priorty number one, so many loose focus on that, which is a shame.

Staying in a marriage that does not benifit is not always best for the kids mind and yours is far from perfect. I understand your need to seek other partners, the same has i understand the need from the mistresses angle also, i am not going to judge you on that.

What ever you decide to do, i can sense it will be a well thought out conclusion.

 

[Eddie417]

Your kung-fu is wise azanon. I've been on the giving and the receiving end of the "let's be friends" speech and have never seen anyone freak out over the rejection of the friendship offer like that.

As for my wife, if I hadn't been approached during a very dark 3-month period in my marriage I probably would have just passed on the offer. Once I was in (pun intended) it became an addiction.

Now I'm out. Just jonesing a bit for it all, especially given that we were such good buds and she was helping me with some projects that I'm now struggling with. If I really thought we could be friends I'd give it a shot, but all I see is drama on the horizon. Like you said, they all gotta end sometime.

 

[azanon]

Not that your marriage may last, i dont know, i know of many a married couple where yours story is familier (wife or Husband) but what seems to happen is the kids are usually the casualty of the choice.

Not saying your choices are wrong, but i would be tackling this from there angle and there angle only, then choose the best situation for you, but to me they would always be priorty number one, so many loose focus on that, which is a shame.

Which choice are you referring to; his choice to cheat, or his wife's potential choice to not forgive him. Lets not lose sight of the fact that what separates kids from both of their parents at the same time would be a separation/divorce, not an affair. An affair could be forgiven in one shouting argument.

I should require the least amount of effort convincing Sosuave men that sex is sex. Sex is not love, and whoever thinks it is, is an idiot. I don't know about you guys, but I could (desire to) have sex with an attractive woman whom I don't even know her name. It is so ingrained in us, that anyone who understands this should understand why affairs happen even in a theoretical case of perfectly happy marriages.

The only thing that I don't want to see occur because of Eddie's story is for the impression to be created that affairs happen because something is wrong with a marriage. That assumption is just simply wrong. Affairs can happen simply because a man or woman gives in to the desire to have sex with someone else. That doesn't require for there to be anything wrong with a marriage. You can be married to Angelina f***ing Jolie and still have the desire to have strange now and then, just for purely physical reasons.

 

[jonwon]

Which choice are you referring to; his choice to cheat, or his wife's potential choice to not forgive him. Lets not lose sight of the fact that what separates kids from both of their parents at the same time would be a separation/divorce, not an affair. An affair could be forgiven in one shouting argument.

I should require the least amount of effort convincing Sosuave men that sex is sex. Sex is not love, and whoever thinks it is, is an idiot. I don't know about you guys, but I could (desire to) have sex with an attractive woman whom I don't even know her name. It is so ingrained in us, that anyone who understands this should understand why affairs happen even in a theoretical case of perfectly happy marriages.

The only thing that I don't want to see occur because of Eddie's story is for the impression to be created that affairs happen because something is wrong with a marriage. That assumption is just simply wrong. Affairs can happen simply because a man or woman gives in to the desire to have sex with someone else. That doesn't require for there to be anything wrong with a marriage. You can be married to Angelina f***ing Jolie and still have the desire to have strange now and then, just for purely physical reasons.

If it gets back to the wife, i would think 9 out of 10 times its going to be a problem, hence the cosy home life style will not be so, who looses out? If they stick together or not, i know women stand by there man when these things happen, but i would suspect there is alot of tension in the air, especcially with something that lasted 3 years, where not talking about a woopsie moment at a stag do or a case of being pis*ed up and happened to have some hot skirt lay it on thick and whoopsie in the toilet, which could happen, we are talking about a 3 year affair, hence to me any women would be thinking 'what is lacking' i dont think thats a good place to be for the husband and wife and i dont think for 1 second its going to be a good place to be for the children either and they in these cases will always be my point of reference, this is not a 'my wife is too fat i have to sleep in another bed type deal', this is a clear case of a guy who still has a decent relationship of sorts, but still feels the need to look elsewhere to get his excitment, i doubt for a second most women will forgive that, especcially racking up 3 years.

 

[Eddie417]

Eddie--


Clearly you should cut ties with this woman, but it seems everyone is missing the obvious here.

Not trying to be captain morality, but im a little dissapointed that even our more seasoned posters are not only validating your 3 year affair but encouraging you to find someone else.

Circumstantially there has been some good advice, but why is everyone ignoring the glaring ethical issues here? I understand you didnt post here to be chastised for adultery, and thats not what im trying to do...but your post begs some fundamental questions:

-Why are you in a sexually unfulfilling marriage?

Or, alternatively, why did you marry her in the first place? Was the sex boring before you married? Or did it become that way over time, and because of what factors?

-Its probably safe to assume your wife is not aware of the whole ordeal, but what if she found out? And is there a possibility that she has sought extramarital sexual fulfillment as well?

I guess im a little taken aback that the actual affair seems to be a non-issue; its what to do with the woman in question, as if she were the long-time FB of a single man.

Just my 2, maybe you could fill us in.

Thanks. Sex with wife is fine actually, like I said, I'm probably being unfair here. I met the mistress during a dark time in my marriage and it just kind of stuck. She's beyond wild. Some if it may be personality, some of it is likely the circumstances surrounding the affair. Danger, excitement etc.. I know I've elevated her for being "cool" but let's face it no kids, bills or in-laws to fight over, pretty easy role for her to play, I realize that, am not stupid.

Wife not aware, or I'd be in here asking a completely different type of advice. If I thought she was stepping out herself, well same thing.
My marriage would survive being found out as long as it is in the past. If I restarted now, given how good things are at home and she found out, it would be over.

I know what I have to do, just need reminders to do it 'cuz I can think of a dozen stupid reasons a day to pick up that phone, especially with the unfinished projects haha.

Being a grown up sucks sometimes

 

[azanon]

If it gets back to the wife, i would think 9 out of 10 times its going to be a problem, hence the cosy home life style will not be so, who looses out?

Check the statistics jonwon; I think you'd be surprised at the number of marriages that continue after the discovery of an affair.

To tell you the truth, there are a great many cases where it actually makes sense from the cheated on person's, point of view to stick it out. So the act of cheating breaks trust? Who's giving other humans unconditional trust in the first place? Isn't that unrealistic almost by our very design?

In my opinion, there is nothing more destructive in this life than Divorce; it is destructive on so many levels. I don't care who you are, you need a better reason to divorce someone other than only just that they cheated sexually. Not legally, but certainly logically.

 

[jonwon]

Check the statistics jonwon; I think you'd be surprised at the number of marriages that continue after the discovery of an affair.

To tell you the truth, there are a great many cases where it actually makes sense from the cheated on person's, point of view to stick it out. So the act of cheating breaks trust? Who's giving other humans unconditional trust in the first place? Isn't that unrealistic almost by our very design?

In my opinion, there is nothing more destructive in this life than Divorce; it is destructive on so many levels. I don't care who you are, you need a better reason to divorce someone other than only just that they cheated sexually. Not legally, but certainly logically.

Yes i understand where your coming from, i did not advocate divorce (even though granted i usually do ).

What concerns me is the reproccusion from what could transpire if this came to light, i have read a few cases where marriages survive this and the women tries harder to please, but i have also read many a case where the family is ripped apart.

I will not advocate divorce here since i think it benifits no one, but what i was suggesting is to tread with caution has the casualties in this at the end of the day will be the kids, especcially considering the home life seems almost normal.

I am all too familier with what could happen with a divorce on either angle, this is something i would not want to happen in this case, i was trying not to post my take on it, but hey, its out now, i would avoid the women since the damage could be rather high and the main casualtys as i posted will be the innocent party.

Divorce in this situation 'never', but then again, this depends on his wifes temprement and i think anyone faced with a 3year affair would have to be extreamly invested to forgive those short-comings.

I agree with you azanon, shock horror

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

Sorry if I'm a little confused here:

I'm a married guy, happy in all areas except the sack. The Mrs. is just too reserved for me.

Is it that she's too selfconscious? Not experimentive enough? Reserved can mean a lot of things. You see there are two elements to infidelity - an opportunity and a reason. Your opportunity here is obvious, but what's the reason? In my line of work I've had plenty of opportunity to cheat in 11 years, but no reason. My wife satisfies my appetites and is a good companion.

What was your reason for infidelity?

 

[Mr.Positive]

Sorry if I'm a little confused here:



Is it that she's too selfconscious? Not experimentive enough? Reserved can mean a lot of things. You see there are two elements to infidelity - an opportunity and a reason. Your opportunity here is obvious, but what's the reason? In my line of work I've had plenty of opportunity to cheat in 11 years, but no reason. My wife satisfies my appetites and is a good companion.

What was your reason for infidelity?

This is a very good point. If something is missing from a marriage, and you feel the need to cheat, it's really just covering up the real issue.

Without tackling what's lacking in the marriage, cheating will just become a pattern and will end up catching up to you at some point.

In a healthy marriage/ltr (what I envision as healthy), a steady flow of good sex is a requirement for me personally. If that's missing, I'll address that directly. However, I've never been married, but I have been in a few ltr's and have never cheated, or felt the need to cheat.

 

[MacAvoy]

All you guys talking about divorce, your deluding yourself, its not even an option, he loves his wife, his wife loves him, he has a pretty darn good marriage, he just got into a little tiff with a piece on the side. Now granted, he's playing with fire if he chooses to continue with the broad who's gone off the deep but.

But DIVORCE is not an option, its not even on his radar. So I think we should focus on the problem with "about to be psycho" chick

 

[MacAvoy]

Anyway she flips out, starts giving me hell, says I should have been more consistent with my attention, that I "misbehaved". Anyway, this pissed me off, I thought it was very disrespectful. I was also embarrassed at misreading what seemed like pretty damned obvious signals and once again I said this isn't for me. We haven't spoken since.

I think this was your only mistake, I think you reacted in the wrong manner. I think that you should have agreed that you screwed up and should have paid more attention to her needs and in the future you will but at the same time remind her that you both are married and have a lot of committments and that we have to be respectful of that and just continue with what has been working for the past 3 years.

That being said, I think you should take a break from this women and let her cool off again. I'm afraid she might go into jealous mode if she can't get you and spill the beans on your marriage.

Does she know your wife? Does she know your home number? If so, I would be extra careful to try smooth things over with her. If she is indeed a mutual acquintance of you & your wifes, and you honestly think she might spill the beans, I would take some precautionary measures and tell your wife a funny story about how so & so tried to hit on you because she was having marriage problems.

That way IF the mistress does go to your wife, then you can say she's just making it up because you turned her down. Then DENY DENY DENY. Trust me, it works, unless the mistress has some sort of proof, and if she does have proof, DENY DENY DENY, trust me that sh1t works, if your wife truly loves you, then you have to hold you ground and DENY DENY DENY and if your stern, confident and serious, your wife will choose to put her blinders on and pretend it didnt happen even if she knows deep down you did, but you have to be stern, confident and serious and DENY DENY DENY.

Trust me this works, why do you think alphas' get away with it all the time, because they are s.erious, confident and they are the prize so their women choose to put on their blinders.

Every group has a friend, who constantly cheats on all his g/f's and gets away with it, many times its blantant and everyone around asks why does she put up with it? Well its because he's confident, serious and he deny's it so that she can put the blinders on, its her choice to put the blinders on because she wants to keep the prize, you have to make yourself the prize, hence why its important to be confident and serious and never show weakness.

 

[azanon]

Is it that she's too selfconscious? Not experimentive enough? Reserved can mean a lot of things. You see there are two elements to infidelity - an opportunity and a reason. Your opportunity here is obvious, but what's the reason? In my line of work I've had plenty of opportunity to cheat in 11 years, but no reason. My wife satisfies my appetites and is a good companion.

What was your reason for infidelity?

You need a reason? How about you like having sex with many different women. You don't just suddenly not like that because you got married! You resist that desire each and every day because you think she's worth it!

I can't necessary argue with a blanked statement that you "need a reason." I don't do much of anything for absolutely no reason at all. (admittedly sarcasm; anything I do is for a reason like most everyone else). But lets certainly not make the mistake and imply that it needs to be something complex or serious if, for no other reason, to do so would just be flat-out wrong.

.........

(edit) One more point on this one. Bill Clinton lied all throughout the Monica Lewinski scandle up until he was finally caught. I believe he told the absolute truth when he was interviewed there in the very end when asked "So why did you do it?" His answer? "Because I could". Did/does he love Hillary? I believe so. I'd bet my life on it.

 

[azanon]

i doubt for a second most women will forgive that, especcially racking up 3 years.

This is a point I really wanted to talk about:

What's going to be really relevant here was not how long the affair was. What matters is, how was his relationship with his wife during those 3 years; especially from her vantagepoint? Was she blissfully ignorant of the situation, but maritally happy? If she was happy in (most) all the areas that matter (financially, contribution, kids, sex (for her), her relationship with him) then THAT is going to be why they will, and should, stay together. If all those other things were also lacking and she was just trying to stick the marriage out, then maybe the affair is that extra push she needs to end an already bad marriage.

See, what happens is, is that often, but not always, a "bad" marriage that isn't working and affair(s) on the side, go hand-in-hand. Often there really are interrelationship issues between the marital couple that can help give rise to an affair. So when the marriage possibly breaks down after the affair is discovered, you could be watching from the outside looking in and conclude "see, it was the affair that did it!" when, in reality, the affair was probably just another symptom or by-product of a marriage that had long since been failing. So one could say "there's a marriage that broke up due to an infidelity", and would in reality be missing the forest for the trees.

There are also people who can compartmentalize. Any "single" player is probably best served by having this skill too. Each of you has more than one friend, don't you? Does one friendship necessarily have to interfere with the other? Of course not. Take than to physical relationships. Does one physical relationship have to interfere with another? No. Especially for men. Heck, we are biologically designed to mate as much as possible to spread our seed. If you have a hang-up with it, make no mistake its predomoninately a socially ingrained one, and/or associated with martial vows.

I think most men mean well. By that, I think when they marry they mean with all their heart that they will only have sex with her for the rest of his life. I'd like to believe no man marries knowing full well that he'll never be faithful to her (though I know some are really this low). In any event, good intentions can die quite hard and quickly when up against millions of years of evolution designed to see to it that our seed is spread wide and far (hopefully, figuratively in these cases, but mentally its the same!). So, before you go laying hate on a married man for cheating, at least have sympathy for his biology and genetics.

 

[ThunderMaverick]

Please read messages thoroughly and ensure you comprehend them before responding. She ended it not me, and I'm struggling with the loss of the sex AND the loss of the friendship and forgoing the former to save the latter is an alternative I've been struggling with. It's all there in the message.

Your comments about sex and marriage speak to a complete and utter lack of experience.

As for your sweeping and totally asinine comment about my life direction again, that's not an issue I'm just pondering whether or not continue to try and fit this lady into my very good life. I suspect we're just from different socio-economic backgrounds and you can't grasp that it's possible to struggle with a relationship and still be successful in life. For successful people relationships are just a part of life not their entire life.

And the little passive/aggressive smiley at the end of your nasty little post isn't fooling anyone. You're a drag queen - go away, at least until you've finished menstruating.

Seriously this isn't a contest, it's just people looking for advice. Get over yourself. You're not really a "Master Don Juan" - just a guy who posts a lot.

As for the rest, the advice is appreciated, with perhaps the exception of grandma "do you, do you!?" haha. That was too much.

Wow.

 

[Eddie417]

All you guys talking about divorce, your deluding yourself, its not even an option, he loves his wife, his wife loves him, he has a pretty darn good marriage, he just got into a little tiff with a piece on the side. Now granted, he's playing with fire if he chooses to continue with the broad who's gone off the deep but.

But DIVORCE is not an option, its not even on his radar. So I think we should focus on the problem with "about to be psycho" chick

Thank you for bringing things back on point.

 

[Eddie417]

A 3 year fling in the context of a 20 year marriage is not a pattern. And 3 years of wild sex handed to me on a platter by a very hot more than a decade younger than myself isn't something I'm going to try and justify to a group of healthy heterosexual men. The fact that she was my best friend (albeit a friendship predicated on an unrealistic situation) just colored things.

As some have correctly surmised I was just looking for some confirmation that the pattern of behavior being displayed by my friend is potentially destructive and that I need to back away quietly and carefully.

I'm going to miss it like hell but trust me, it's done.

 

[st_99]

Do you think you might be in danger of treating your wife like crap because you miss this other girl and the great young chic sex?

I would bet a lot of money that your marriage will end within the next couple years.

 

[aliasguy]

Do you think you might be in danger of treating your wife like crap because you miss this other girl and the great young chic sex?

I would bet a lot of money that your marriage will end within the next couple years.

Why would he treat his wife like "cr*p" over this? He's been running around with this chick for a few years. He's not gonna blame his Wife for the side thing going south. He's gonna keep on doing what he's done so far(I think.)

He's doing what he does. As far as we know, he's a MODEL husband. What makes one think that His marriage will end soon? WHY?




This whole thread is really interesting to me.

In my last marriage, I was freakin' WARD CLEAVER. (Apologies to those who don't know.) I got up in the morning, went to work, and came home. I did my best to make sure my family was well provided for, and that my wife got to do what she wanted, and had fun, and I nailed her aggressively and very frequently, and did all th sh*t that a guy's "supposed" to do. It still went to sh*t. I might as well have taken up all the offers I'd gotten along the way. I might as well have hit the stuff I wanted to, but didn't. The results would have been the same.

Well, I'm ramblin' now..... so I'll stop.





Hey, st_99. .... been married, dude???????

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