Small Town Sarging

NorPacWolf · Dec 7, 2005

Topic 1: What makes a small town small?

It's not just the population size. After all, there are tens of thousands of residents here. You have to factor in the number of visitors and the amount of turnover overall. In Los Angeles, not only do you have millions of visitors, but you have massive turnover in the population, not just on an annual basis, but on a daily basis. A major university of say 20,000 in a major metropolis may have 40,000 visitors on a busy day, twice the number of actual students. In a big city, you have a huge number of tourists, immigrants, family members and businesspeople constantly flying, driving, bussing or training in and out constantly. There is a sense of disconnect, and conversely a sense of freedom and reduced sense of accountability. If things don't go well, you just fade into the background, never to be seen or heard from again.

Not so in Oregon. The population is largely a stable one. There has been some migration, especially from California recently, but otherwise, most residents are lifelong residents. They've grown up together, almost always in a small town. People see each other time and time again. This serves as a check or inhibition against ribald, licentious talk and behavior, even at night, even when drunk, with strangers. Lesson learned? Take your time, and be patient.

***

Topic 2: Story Telling in Small Towns.

Mystery Method advocates storytelling as a key component of the attraction phase of M3. I'm not sure how feasible this is in my small town. When I'm talking to girls, they tend to be moving around a lot. They can't seem to stay in one place. They get up and walk around while talking to you. They'll stop talking to you, then take a walk and come back and hover. Very odd. Long stories, deep conversations are not the stuff of relationships here. People like to MOVE. Lesson learned? Be tolerant of this regional quirk: if they are interested, they will come back to you, even if they have to jump around, walk to and fro, whatever.

I should have a field report either tonight or tomorrow night. Mystery advocates going out four nights a week, even for newbies. Do I really have the time or energy for that? I went out for a long Friday night, and was absolutely wasted on Saturday. I slept in rather than going out. Wish me luck this time lol.

NorPacWolf · Dec 12, 2005

I went out Thursday and Saturday nights. I flew solo again on Thursday but only stayed out less than an hour, and didn't do any approaches. I felt very self conscious about being out alone this time, I'm not sure why.

Saturday, my wingman gives me a call while Im at an end of year get together with co-workers. 'Who's that? Who's phone is that?' my co workers ask. I don't know why these Oregonians are so damm nosy.

***

Saturday Night, Venue One:

My wing and I meet up at a local tavern. Immediately, a girl in her late twenties (a married slightly trashy looking '6') at a table of four girls wiggles her finger at my wing in the unmistakeable 'come hither' manner (so he says, my back is to them). He heads over and she says to him 'do I know you from somewhere (classic pickup line). He says he left because she was acting and talking strange. We chat for a bit, deciding where to go next. Before we leave, I thank him for isolating the 4.5 UG from last time and vow to do the same for him should the time arise. And that time is about to arise very, very shortly.

As we are about to head out the rear exit, the table of four has suddenly reappeared at the rear of the restaurant (how did they get there?!). 'Do you want to sit down with these girls?' my wing asks. What the hell.
Clearly, the married '6' is into my friend and so I do my best to occupy her 3 friends. One of the girls is wearing glasses and has a perm straight out of the 1950's. She looks 40 rather than her 27 years of age. The second girl is a heavy set brunette with a pleasant disposition. The third is a cute blonde '6' with chubby cheeks. I guess that she's heavy set since she has baby fat in her face, but later find she has an average body, not a big one.

These girls seem to be pretty well plastered, as they start in with the sexual talk pretty quickly. The blonde 6 asks me if I am a USC fan since I'm from socal.
Her: "I'm talking about USC, not South Carolina. They're the '****s. I mean, I didn't say c*ck, I said 'gamecock!' This is two minutes into our conversation.
I start to stretch my shoulders and the married '6' notices.

Her: 'Are you stretching, Wolf? OK, do this one (shows me another shoulder stretch). OK, now touch your toes.'
Her girlfriends start laughing out loud. I don't get it.
Her: 'Wolf! Stand up and touch your toes!'
Her friends start laughing even louder.
Her: 'Wolf, BEND OVER and touch your toes!'
The girls are all laughing riotously now. I'm the last one in on the joke. They want me to bend over for them and show my ass. Being treated like a piece of meat is slightly degrading but I'm hoping it happens more frequently, hopefully every weekend.

The blonde asks me what I do for work. I tell them I work at a local college.

Blonde: 'What do you do there? Are you an intern, or a..."

Married Girl: 'Are you a stripper?'

Her girlfriends start laughing out loud again. I'm really confused now, as I don't see the association between college and stripping. As you can see, these girls have all been drinking (I assume) and what they lack in subtleties of the game, they make up for in sheer persistence and brazen language. My wing's been talking with the married '6' for about 10 minutes now, as I've been able to occupy the other girls pretty well. He flips over the married girl's ring and discovers her secret. She had been wearing her ring upside down to lure unsuspecting single men into her world.

Wingman (to me): 'We need to meet up with Ryan.'

Me: 'Yeah, let's go find Ryan.'

Married girl: are you leaving us?'

Me: 'No, we have to go find and save Ryan.'

I tell the girls where we're going next, out of curiosity to see if they'll follow us there. Anyway, we finally get out of there and head over to the western bar down the street....To be continued.

***

Venue One Conclusion:

Lesson learned: There is a stronger day/night, sober/plastered dichotomy in Oregon than in California. In Cali, girls are more open to daytime pickups. In Oregon, the girls need liquor to excuse themselves from having to abide the strict rules of etiquette and decorum which prevail when the sun is out. It looks like I'll have to a do a lot of night sarging from here on out.

NorPacWolf · Dec 12, 2005

Venue Two:

We're standing in line at a western themed restaurant. I've been warned by several parties that this place has seen its share of trouble makers over the years, although the problems seem to have abated recently. Nonetheless, I'm apprehensive after hearing these reports, and am on my best behavior. A very tall girl, 6' plus tall in her heels is talking loudly behind me. My wing's talking to her, unconcerned about either the venue or the girl. He lets her in front of us. This girl's at least a '7', but she's extremely belligerent.

Her: "Yeah, and if he (me) doesn't like it, I'll...." (she balls up her fist in front of my nose. Then she starts laughing out loud. I see her later in the evening, as she stands quietly: "hey, you're so well behaved now!", I tell her. She lowers her head and giggles. Tame as a kitten. Weird. I guess she was flirting earlier.

We get inside and experience even more raucous behavior. My wing and I walk in and a girl walks by and stares at me with a drunken leer (she's a blonde '7' with a big butt).

Drunk girl: "Eeeeeey! How you boys doin'?!'

As soon as I take notice of the drunk leering girl, I turn and smile getting ready to talk to her. The '7's' friend, a tall, heavy set brunette, immediately crowbars her arm between myself and her friend and pries her away from me.

I tell my wing I want to look around a bit. I spot an '8' blonde and a '7' light skinned black girl (a real rarity in these parts). I decide to try some Mystery Method by talking to the '7' first.

Me: "why aren't you girls dancing?"
HB7: "we're drinking right now!" She's got a smile and seems really friendly, down to earth. No shield so far.
I talk with the '7', continuing to ignore the '8'. Eventually, the '8' begins answering my questions for the '7'. So Mystery Method does work.

I watch a tall brunette 7.5 with curly hair in a camouflage top, line dancing. As she gets off the dance floor, I high five her. She hi fives me back enthusiastically, with a smile. I'm getting suspicious. Where's the shield? I get nervous, as this is my first time at this venue, and don't know how to proceed. I eject only after a couple of minutes. Also, the lack of a shield from the HB's is confusing me: there isn't one. How can I game if Mystery Method is designed to lower a shield. Confusing.

I see these 3 girls several times later, and they are talking with, and then getting hugs from, and then later grinding, the various guys they are encountering at the club. What's happening, from what I can tell, is that these girls are getting more and more wasted as the night progresses (the blonde '8' can barely walk by night's end, and the black girl is getting visibly sick and had to sit down), and getting less and less concerned about their reputation. They are here to have fun, not to meet Mr. Right. I wonder if these girls are going to go home with one of the guys. Nope. I see them leave the club and hop into a cab together at evening's end.

In the meantime, my wing has talked to at least 6 other girls that night. They all apparently know him very well. He receives hugs from a stripper, a married woman whose hubby is off at war, and several others. The only worthwhile girl in his eyes, and in mine also, is a tall blonde '8' in a pink blouse who hugs him with a smile. The married woman tells her girlfriend, 'I bet he dates every week!' while speaking to my wing. My wing denies it. I find out what the problem is later. My wing points to a blonde on the dance floor:

Wing: 'I bet you she's self conscious about her height,' pointing to her flat shoes. This girl's at least an 8.5: she is tall, blonde, in her twenties and has a lovely face.
Me: 'What rating would you give her?'
Wing: 'Maybe a 7 or 8.'

I guffaw and bend over laughing.

Me: 'You're tough!'

Wing: 'Yeah.'

I'm notoriously tough in my rating scale, but this guy takes selectivity to a whole new level.

Interestingly, the table of four did 'follow' us to this venue (would they have wandered over without us asking them? Who knows). The blonde '6' asks us: "where did you guys go? Where did you guys go?!' After we slip out to check out a couple other bars. Later, the blonde finds me again to tell me she's leaving. She squeezes my hand before she leaves (IOI). My buddy says I should have number closed her. I know, but I want better than a '6'. I've got the same selectivity issue as my wing.

Before they leave, the married '6' finds me again.

Married: 'Do you want to dance?'
Me: 'I'm going to finish my water and then I'll go find you, ok?'
Married: 'Don't play that game with me. Don't play that 'I'm gonna finish my water and then go find you later' game. How does it sound when I say that to YOU?'
Me: 'I guess it doesn't sound very nice,' I admit, feeling sorry for her.
Her: 'I can dance like...(I can't remember what she says here; I actually think I blanked it out after too much potty mouth on her part earlier in the evening.).
Her: 'It's not illegal to dance, you know.'
Me: 'I have to finish this water, but maybe later.'
Her: 'Yes or no. Do you want to dance.'

She finally goes away.

***

Conclusion:

Lesson learned: Juggler insists in one of his podcasts that the best way to social circle sarge is to go to a tavern, find a cool guy then drink with him. That way, you'll get social proof and meet lots of new people. So far, this strategy is working for me.

Lesson learned: my wing and I are birds of a feather: good looking guys who are overly selective. I encourage my wing to push the envelope next time.

Lesson learned: my wing has the foundation to be a 'natural': he's tall, good looking, in his twenties and loves to go out. However, he can be very shy and is overly selective and therefore doesn't close very often. He does understand the principles of gaming. I explain Mystery Method to him and he approves: give the less attractive girl attention and get the target jealous. He has a lot of potential. I look forward to winging with him some more. Also, he's forcing me to push my game to a new level as he has little approach anxiety and is good looking. The future looks bright.

Lesson learned: girls in the 4 to 6 range, are very brazen. The 8's and 9's are much more calm and polite. They are less anxious. Add alcohol to the mix, and I'm not sure there is any difference in behavior whatsoever. Alcohol and social proof are key.

NorPacWolf · Dec 13, 2005

Monday:

My last two posts concern girls who made me feel uncomfortable by being too direct at night. Now I am dealing with the exact opposite situation early Monday evening, this time with a strikingly attractive blonde girl. I had seen this blonde girl at the gym once, then saw her again at the cafe just the very next day. At the cafe, I noticed that the girl continually looked in my direction without looking me in the eye directly. I remember my wing saying that he knew/thought a girl was interested if she continually looked in his direction, whether or not she made eye contact with him. And this is precisely what happened with the blonde at the cafe: she looked my way (apparently past me) as I waited for coffee, did the same thing as I walked past her to go to the restroom, then caught her doing this again, as I reentered the cafe after getting a breath of fresh air outside the cafe. Now, I am getting strongly suspicious.

On Monday evening, I see this same blonde. She enters the cafe shortly after I do. She 'hovers' three feet in front of me for a minute ostensibly scanning the room for an empty table. Now, the place is very empty and just about every table is available. She chooses the table directly next to mine. And she seats herself so that we are face to face rather than her sitting with her back to me. There is too much circumstantial and coincidental evidence for me to ignore: her behavior suggests she is interested and I take this as a green light to proceed with conversation:

Me: hey, haven't I seen you before? Don't you work out at the blankety blank gym.
Her: (big smile) Yeah, I work out there sometimes.
Me: And you're always with your girlfriend, that girl in the red sweats.
Her: Laughs, yeah, she's usually with me.
Me: You're not studying are you? I thought finals were over.
Her: Yeah, they are. I'm just waiting for my...friend.
Me: Is it that same girl?
Her: No, it's another...girlfriend. I haven't seen her in ages. We never get to see each other.

She starts to look towards the door now expectantly.

Me: So when do you go home for break?
Her: Actually, I just bought a home up here. My parents are visiting ME, she says smiling.

Here, I try to do a takeway.

Me: Wow, you've got a lot of money. I can't talk to you now.

Doesn't work. She just looks down at some form she's brought with her and stops talking.

Her girlfriend shows up. They talk, in a confused manner, about the form the blonde girl is trying to fill out. They can only keep this up for about 5-10 minutes. I work at the cafe for approximately an hour, and for the remainder of the time, the two girls talk about boys, about relationships, about their girlfriends, and their girlfriend's diet and appearance, and so forth. Standard girl talk. The blonde's girlfriend does mention that some guy she didn't know approached her cold, touched her on her thigh and commented on her jeans:

Brunette friend: I mean, I didn't even know him.
Blonde: I would've slapped him.

The blonde does mention that some male has decided to pick up and leave unexpectedly. This male is either a very close best friend or a boyfriend. She mentions that this decision came out of the blue. She talks about how much they will miss each other. This guy is supposedly going to be away for at least six months, and he told her that when he comes back, she'll have found someone else. 'Yeah, right!' she says. She says that this guy told her how much he'll miss her and insisted on sleeping over the night before he left, and expressed jealousy over a hypothetical future suitor, etc. Apparently, the blonde was really touched by this needy, 'AFC' behavior.

***
Conclusion:

I wrote a couple of long FR's about having to manage girls being extremely direct so now I guess it's only fair that I face the opposite challenge: a girl who is very subtle and indirect, yet quite persistent in her strategy: lots of looking in my direction, hovering, and putting herself in a situation where a conversation is possible between two strangers. I tried to do a takeaway a la Mystery Method, but as I have repeatedly stated, parts of the method work, and others do not. Standard, AFC behavior and dialogue is perfectly appropriate and 'works' for a lot of guys. In fact, that may be the 'game' itself around here.

Lesson learned: lots of looking in your direction and hovering in your vicinity is evidence of interest.

Also, as you can see, these two girls spent nearly an hour talking about relationships. So the next time you and your DJ or PUA bud talk game for a long time, just know you are simply making the odds even: relationship talk is par for the course with chicks and that's why they have such an edge in these matters.

Lesson learned 2: talking about game (i.e., relationships) is fun and useful--this is a less women learned eons ago.

NorPacWolf · Dec 16, 2005

Disastrous Night

OK, so I'm exaggerating. It wasn't a disaster, but it sure felt like one. I'll outline what happened then write up what I think I learned from it.

***

Thursday night venue:

I called up my wing to see if he wanted to go out, say on a Friday or Saturday night. I was not really in the mood to go out on a Thursday: I was tired, I had gone out on Wed. night and didn't want to go out consecutive nights. To my surprise, my wing said he was out with a girlfriend and invited me along. I felt like since I'm new in town, I couldn't turn down an invitation. I know Mystery says you never fail, you only learn or close; but I just didn't feel good about my Thursday night. I rushed to get ready, and met up with my wing a bit before 11 PM.

Here's the main problem: I went out wearing glasses, which I never like to do. Especially when it's "showtime", such as on a Thursday, Friday or Saturday night. During the day, I have no problem wearing glasses. On a weekend night, no way. I learned the hard way in my early days of sarging that this is a definite no-no. But like I said, I felt like I couldn't refuse an invitation so early on in the game.

My wing immediately kicks ass and introduces me to all of his female buddies, and trust me, he has a lot of them. Few of them are "hot"; that is, the in '7' or higher range, but a ton of them are in the '6' range. He is very friendly to all of them, and they are all pretty cool with me. Here is where I start to fyck up. I am feeling so uncomfortable with my glasses, that I complain to EVERYONE he introduces me to about my glasses and how inhibited and uncool I feel with them on. This is a definite downer for everyone involved, but much to their credit, my wing and his friends tolerate my bad behavior with extraordinary grace.

I feel like I have to approach women anyway, and surprisingly, things go better than I expected. I see an ethnic looking girl (rare in these parts): nice body, ok face. She smiles when I talk to her and is very friendly. A glutton for punishment, I ask her if I look better with or without my glasses. "Without." I slam my fist on the table in mock anger. "You wanted me to be honest right?" she says by way of apology.

I try this stunt again with a two set ten minutes later. They are split in their opinion. One thinks I definitely look better without, the other says she prefers me with glasses. Interestingly, she says she can't reach a conclusion about my looks "because I don't know your personality." These girls are very friendly "6's". The conversation wanes a bit after I get my responses from the two of them. I'm just not in state at all: my confidence is shot.

Two other issues: I'm not really peacocking like I was last week. No ornamentation, no dressy shoes, in addition to the fact I'm wearing glasses. Third, I'm not really anticipating or looking forward to this night out: I'm really looking forward to going out on a Friday or Saturday instead and working on my skills at those times.

Finally, I believe I saw the hot blonde I saw earlier this week at the cafe this Thursday night. She was a dead ringer for this other(?) girl; it must have been her, or a girl who looked astonishingly similar to her. The thing is, this girl's behavior, whoever she was, was the complete opposite of the blonde girl's behavior on Monday at the cafe. The girl at the cafe was extremely indirect, subtle, and very very quiet and subdued.

The girl I saw Thursday night was extremely animated: drinking, talking loudly, bouncing up and down, getting her freak on on the dance floor: she was very high energy--her behavior was so different I couldn't even believe it was the same girl, assuming it was indeed her. If there is a positive, it's that the blonde's brunette friend, a tall (in heels), thin brunette of similar age, was staring at me last night while standing with her friend. I believe both of them are attracted to me. Now the question is, how do I add comfort with the attraction?

***

Conclusion

1. Never wear glasses. Even if you look just as good with them (highly doubtful), they kill your state. Of the hundreds of people at this venue, perhaps only two or three people wore glasses, and I was one of them. I completely agree with Mystery on this one.

2. Peacock. If I was accused of being a stripper the last time I was out, then I must have been doing something right.

3. Go out as often as possible, but if you are not in state, you can wind up feeling like shyt while you're out. I still have mixed feelings about this: I think Mystery in principle is correct: the more you go out, the more your skills improve. Obviously, you have to get out of your comfort zone, so I guess feeling uncomfortable is part of the process and perhaps a good sign rather than a bad one.

4. Oregonians are very different at night: they are reserved during the day, and almost painfully shy: at night, they let loose and let all inhibitions go. I'm just not used to this yet.

5. This transition is taking longer than I thought.

6. I've got to stop complaining to my new friends. It is so very unnecessary.

Peace,

NorPacWolf

NorPacWolf · Jan 14, 2006

'NEXT' MY WING???

I am back in town and things are not going well. I called up my wing, to see what's up for this weekend. He says he's attending a friend's anniversary or something to that effect at a local bar. I agree to meet up with them around 7 PM.

***

VENUE 1, 7 PM TO 10:30 PM:

I get there, and I essentially 'hang around' with my wing and his work friends for the next three and a half hours. The bar is pretty slow at this time: it's early and it's raining and pretty much nothing is going on. There's maybe two dozen people in the building and maybe twenty are at tables, holding polite quiet conversations. The longer this drags out, the more bored I get.

I try to enter the conversation with my wing's friends, but they seem reluctant to engage me as a close friend, since I'm obviously an outsider racially and personally. The night continues to drag on and on, and I am doing my best to disguise my boredom. There's really nothing to do: the single pool table is occupied all night, there's an ancient big screen flashing old videos from the '80's, it's just a very very slow boring night in a small hick town. I ask my wing about the girls who are here, trying to get the 411 on whether they are sarge able or not. My wing is very vague, and seems non committal about doing any approaching. It seems he is content to really do nothing but stand around, drinking and really talking about nothing for hours on end. I just don't get it. There's actually one guy from my wing's crew who seems amiable enough. He's a cherubic guy early thirties with an easygoing manner. His father and I are associated with the same college, and so this is enough to create some rapport. He asks how my wing and I know each other, and this is perhaps where I screw up a bit. I tell him my wing's friend that I met my wing when I went to a bar and chose a guy to help me pick up girls. I thought I told this in a lighthearted manner and that would it not create problems. My wing seems very embarrassed by this however and seems anxious to correct me. He says to his friend that I just introduced myself, said I was new in town, asked about the town, that we got to talking, blah blah blah.

We head outside and chit chat with a couple of his friends. He explains to me to that he really likes the slow pace of life here and appreciates the fact that his co workers enjoy a similar mindset and lifestyle. He says he's had an opportunity to move to a big city in California, but did not want to live what he considered to be a fast paced, stressful lifestyle.

***

VENUES 2/3: 10:30-11 PM:

After three hours, I mention the possibility of possibly going to another venue. His coworker girlfriend recommends a couple of places. We check those places out. Very quiet, very dead bars. Then we head back to the old standby, a country/western joint.

***

VENUE 4: 11 PM-1 AM:

SET 1:
Here's where my wing disappoints me. There's a mixed three set: two girls, one guy. The guy is older, perhaps mid to late thirties or so. My wing approaches the entire group immediately and starts chatting up the guy. I enter the set and tell the entire group of three that my wing knows everybody in town. I address the guy primarily a la Mytery Method. The girls bite, especially the brunette: she's tall, thin, fashionably dressed and has a mediterranean face. She introduces me to her blonde friend, who recoils as I extend my hand for a handshake. I recoil and lean back, holding my hands up in front of my chest in a defensive posture. The blonde immediately apologizes and reaches out to shake my hand. I lean back even further shaking my head and she leans into me to touch me.

Blonde: "See, I touched you!"
Brunette: "She's really shy, I'm the outgoing one. That's why we're such good friends."

Now here we go again with the sex talk:

Brunette: "She's a vigin!" she says pointing to her blonde friend.
Me: "Really? So am I!"
Brunette: "No, you're not!"

My wing completely ignores the two girls. I talk to the brunette, and we joke around, she begins touching me, and I begin touching her, and we're kicking off another decent set. I try a takeaway here as a test to see whether the set "sticks":

Me: "I'm going to go get a drink."
Her: "OK, go get your drink. Be sure to come right back here, the brunette says, pointing her finger to the ground." This is pretty much the exact phrase the blonde I was into last time used to keep her set going. Interesting. The people here can be so friendly.

I come back, and here, I could really use some help. My wing is chatting up the guy, and so the blonde is basically out of the loop. The girls head out for a smoke, probably at the blonde's beckoning, but the brunette invites us along. I decline. The girls say they'll come back looking for us. I nod and say "ok."

The girls do indeed come back inside and come back and stand within six feet of us, the brunette smiling and waving at us apparently to invite us to talk to them. I don't bite. I blow it, and the girls are soon talking to two other guys. My wing invites me out to the smoking patio. There, this is where my wing annoys me. He begins insulting my target, the brunette, alienating her immediately. The brunette looks at me as this is happening, apparently waiting for me to jump in to her defense. This is just a weird situation for me as I'm not used to this wing behaving in a hostile way towards girls.

Him: (says something she doesn't like)
Her: "hey, you're losing points with me."
Him: "who said I was TRYING to gain points with you!"
Her: looks at me, then laughs in resignation.

That was a good neg, but I was trying to indicate to him implicitly and explicitly that I was trying to game this girl, and the way he acted really messed things up beyond repair.

SET 2:
Nonetheless, I still want to wing him, as I had promised. There's a girl he wants to talk to. I take a look at her. She is unremarkable, perhaps a '6' at best. She is with a girl I had seen previously at this place. "Do you want to talk to that girl?" I ask. "Where is she?" He says, agreeing he wants to. I lead the way and walk around until we are in eyesight. I nod to the girls, and he dutifully enters. Oddly, he's stationed so I can't do my job. He blocks me out completely, turns his back to me and just starts talking to the girls. I butt in anyway to do my job and start occupying the light skinned black girl (a brazilian).

Me: "hey, I recognize you!"
Her: mouth wide open, trying to place me. "Yeah, I recognize you."
Me: That's because you're sober now! ha ha!
Her: "Oh yeah, you were interested in my friend, the one in the camouflage (busted--she already knows I'm not interested in her and am winging for my friend).
Me: "Well, I thought she had really interesting eyes. Is she a Latina or something?"
Her: "No. And you were interested in my blonde friend too. By the way, she dyed her hair black. We all have the same hair color now." This brazilian girl looks dead tired, and is looking around, apparently bored, or perhaps already cued in that I'm not buying but winging. I still keep going...

Her: "My brunette friend's an underwear model." She raises her eyebrows; I guess she's winging her girl also? A DHV?
Me: "I'm an ass model." I say with a straight face.
Her: "You are?" She takes a peak at my body. "Well then the two of you already have something in common." (She doesn't bite: she won't say I'm full of it, or go with my flow).
I talk and talk, not really interested in closing but wanting to give my wing a chance to isolate. Then he disappoints me even further. He simply heads out to the dance floor with his target in tow and his target drags along her girlfriend. I'm left there standing like an idiot.

I just felt bad about how things proceeded. I really tried to stay in good spirits despite being dreadfully bored, basically doing nothing. I helped my wing to isolate his target (his target being a rather unremarkable girl with an average face and perhaps even a below average body). I occupied the non target for what seemed like forever, even though I was bored. Then he just bails on me. This is after he insults my target and basically treats her like crap.

TBC...

warpy · Jan 14, 2006

either give him the "wingman" talk. say you need to come midway to get this thing working, or give him one more shot.

after that... next him

NorPacWolf · Jan 14, 2006

CONCLUSION AND QUESTION

1/13 FR CONCLUSION:

Lesson learned: my wing and I just don't see eye to eye. Earlier that night, he introduces me to his guy friend as "the horniest guy in town." Then he introduces his friend to me as "the horniest guy in town." Just fun lockerroom humor to be sure, but my wing is uncomfortable with my explicit talk about gaming girls. Likewise, I get dreadfully bored sitting around basically doing nothing. When I was involved in conversations with his co workers, the topic and pace struck me as very boring: a state which apparently my wing and other people in this state consider to be normal and even enjoyable. I don't 'get' how people can just sit around that long doing nothing. I need a faster pace of life: more excitement. But a fast pace of life frightens my wing. And despite his claims to the contrary, it seems like he is doing a poor job of winging me. He refuses now to help me with my targets and then abandons me even though I bust my ass helping him to isolate by occupying the non target. This is damm near unforgivable. I respect his right to his lifestyle, but it looks like it's going to be difficult to meet each other halfway. I just find the pace of life here too dull and uneventful.

My wing is a good guy and he's a terrific friend. However, his awkwardness as a wing, even though I try to be pretty explicit with him (in a friendly way) about wingman rules, is getting to be rather annoying. I'll pull him into a set or he'll try to open a set for me and he'll basically approach the girls in a way so that I really don't have a chance to talk to the girls. In essence, he acts as a ****block. It could just be that in this small town, you don't have to maintain as much physical distance between two people as elsewhere, or more likely it's just overeagerness and clumsy behavior on his part.

For example, I tell him that I think the brunette is looking to hook up (signaling to him that I want to try to close with her). He says that perhaps she is, but that her blonde friend will try to prevent her from doing so. Duh! That's why the wingman OCCUPIES the potential ****block. He makes no offer to help me out. Nonetheless, like a dumbass, I offer to help him out again. So I'm basically thinking 'fyck this guy.'

Should I start over from scratch and find a new wing, however difficult? Should I give this former wing another chance or should I next him? I don't think he's deliberately trying to fyck me over, but I might find it difficult to talk him out of some really odd habits from my perspective. If he wants me to wing, why won't he give me a chance to wing? If he wants me to wing him again, then why blow up my set? I really don't see any option except to 'next' him and start over from scratch. This is going to be a challenging situation. What do you guys think? Any thoughts from the mature men's forum?

wunnaBsmooth · Jan 16, 2006

At least

At least he's not swiping your targets too!
I have a wing that called himself my best friend for years that constantly swiped my targets and never really was a good wing! He nexted himself when he got Oneitis pretty bad and moved 3 hours away and changed jobs. (now he's miserable.....lol)

Either way, I have been enjoying your posts! I hate to say it, but I've been keyboard jockying here for a while. And only sarging periodically with mixed results. So reading your chronicles has been informative and interesting at the same time. And I guess applicable since I too am from a small town.

I have a few friends who used to wing similarly to your buddy. But, because the were unreliable, I don't rely on them anymore. It sounds like your wing has become very selfish and inconsiderate.

I'd shop for a new wing but act like a chic and keep him around for backup until you have the new one in place......lol

Just my thoughts.

NorPacWolf · Jan 16, 2006

SMALL TOWN TO BIG CITY, PART ONE

Warpy and Smooth,

Thank you for your replies---it really helps to get your perspectives and to know that others have had similar experiences. I tend to think the best of people in my new town; they've been so damm gracious and polite (at least on the surface), so it comes as a big surprise whenever they are less than generous or even outright selfish (my standards have increased lol). Onto the FR.

***

SATURDAY, JANUARY 14TH:

I head out to Portland in the early evening. It's my first visit, so I don't know what to expect. As soon as I get off the freeway, and into town, I am immediately discombobulated: for the first five minutes, there is no foot traffic and hardly any auto traffic. WTF? This is the 'big city?' I drove all the way up here for this? Then five minutes later, as I cruise into the heart of downtown, and see all the major stores: Nordstrom, Fossil, Diesel, among others, see all parking spots occupied, and then general hustle and bustle, finally, I know I am back in a city again. For any potential visitors, Portland is indeed a very nice city. It looks a lot like downtown San Francisco--only much less racially diverse and it's also almost spotless--no liter anywhere, the smell of urine is completely absent and the panhandlers are few in number and not nearly as aggressive. It's a polite, laidback, sanitized version of the 'big city.'

Warning: this is a long, detailed report. It's going to be broken up into three parts: a shopping report for the peacocks, a FR for the newbs (I'm an advanced noob), and a conclusion with lessons learned--it's my first visit in town, and I'm trying principally to get oriented and not expecting to get laid).

***

PART ONE: SHOPPING!!!

I started up with nightgame June '06 (whew! has it been that long?) and my look back then was busted to say the least: my first night out I wore cheap azz suede shoes, pleated dress pants, an undershirt along with prescription glasses. Not a pretty sight. I've slowly been undergoing a transformation from busted or at least drab, to passably fashionable, to funky, and now to straight up peacocky: the belle of the ball. Tonight, I come pretty close to hitting the mark. So, not only do you have to hunt for female prey, you have to 'hunt' for cutting edge designs to accentuate your face and figure.

I shop in Nordstrom and the saleslady is quick to 'assist me' as I try on a leather jacket. I take a look at the sticker and see why she is so eager to please: the jacket is $600!!

Her: "see the distressed leather? That is so funky! And look at the mandarin collar...very unique. OK, let's see the 'medium' on you." She stares at me arms crossed, one hand under chin, her body leaning back as if she's a fashion designer and I'm her model. I try on the medium.

Her: "That's too big. You're swimmin' in it. Try the 'small' again." She assists me taking the jacket off, re-racks it, and holds the 'small' for me to put my arms into.

Me: "The shoulders are right. I wonder if the jacket's too short."

Her: (still leaning back, studying the 'look'). That's the fitted look. You're right, the shoulders look right (nods). It depends on whether you like a fitted look or not," she says looking into my eyes hopefully.

Me: I don't answer. I'm noncommittal. My eye is so untrained, that any look aside from corporate casual looks too 'different' for me to evaluate yea or nay.

She proceeds to lay out some ugly ass shirts from the clearance rack, eager to sell me something less expensive. Then I ask her if she sells some basics for work and she shows me a rain jacket ($175). It's pretty nice, but I'm thinking I can find the same jacket for less on the internet. I get her card and thank her for her help.

***

PART TWO: NEW WING!

I meet up with my wing at around 6 PM. We've exchanged a few emails, and I'm really eager to meet up with him since I'm expecting him to be a tour guide in the big city. He tells me that his plan for tonight is to get a group of 3 gals, 3 guys together, but his goal is to game and close a hot ass co-worker. I'm willing to wing him in exchange for a general tour of the nightlife in Portland. We meet in the food court and he immediately puts me at ease, a first in meeting up with wings in the community. He doesn't seem at all nervous and is very gracious. He extends his hand for a handshake, and gives me the 'chest bump'. Awesome! Friendly and chill. He's a young guy (early twenties) and dressed, as is the custom in Oregon, very casually, in brown dress shoes, dark slacks and a black sweatshirt over a tshirt.

I practically drag him to a shoe store where they sell funky accessories to get a second opinion on some items I tried on earlier. I try on a wool cap with visor and put on some aviator glasses with brown lenses. I try putting the glases on my face and rest them on my forehead above the cap. I try the cap on sideways also, with the sunglasses.

Wing: "looks good bro." I ask the saleslady her opinion and she also says it looks good. OK, I buy them and put them on. This is really pushing the envelope for me. I fear I might get laughed at: 'who wears sunglasses at 7 PM at night?'

My wing and I head out to another clothing store. Nothing really stands out to me, so we grab some food at a local bar.

I'm quickly forming an overall impression of my wing and it is a very positive. He's very young, but he's already familar with material from the community, and has also read motivational books from authors such as Robert G. Allen and Anthony Robbins. He has clear personal and financial goals, but approaches his goals by befriending people and networking rather than trying to railroad them. He is definitely mature beyond his years and strikes me as an ambitious and interesting person.

One thing that is slightly distracting: he's new to the game (as I am) and eager, which is good, but I can see how this type of behavior could be taken as evidence of the 'approach warrior' or 'social robot.' He's approaching and approaching and approaching. My own experience up to this point, demonstrates that gaming (in this state) or cold approaching takes place at particular, designated locales such as bars and clubs. Otherwise, you have to 'social circle' sarge, rather than cold approach. Cold approaching outside of designated venues, I tell my wing later, has not been fruitful for me, UNLESS I get an AI (approach invitation). Nonetheless, I respect his right to sarge and am willing to follow his lead, if this style proves at all fruitful.

Like I said, he's a cool person and I don't mind him approaching so often, but I do wonder if it's a waste of energy, energy which could be better spent in gaming locales. For example, he approaches girls while they are walking in the opposite direction. He winds up walking backwards or even following them as he tries to game them. I try to tell him afterwards NEVER approach a girl from behind and 2) if she is walking, be sure to STOP her by stepping in front of her if you wish to game her. Nonetheless, he gets points for attempting approaches.

We go to a local bar downtown and eat some food and chat a bit about Oregon, about game in Oregon and just generally hang and chill. I can tell he's eager to game, so I rush my meal along. We then try to find the first venue. We have a really tough time with it, since I am completely new to town, and my tour guide, while an Oregon native, is also spending his first night in Portland! Doh! (I had unwittingly called him up early and cut him off while he was mapquestting!) We spend damm near half an hour circling everywhere, looking for parking and so on. But we finally arrive at our first gaming site.

TBC...

NorPacWolf · Jan 16, 2006

FIELD REPORT: SOCIAL CIRCLE SARGING DRAMA

...After shopping, eating, and getting lost (lol), it's damm near 9:30 PM.

***

GAME VENUE ONE: YUPPIE LOUNGE 10 PM:

We wind up at a bar in the "pearl" district. I can't remember the bar, but it's a large bar with a rectangular main bar, and has small tables with tall stools surrounding the bar. There is a separate adjoining dining area right next to the bar. This place has a distinctly "loungey" feel to it. There is mood lighting, and the bar is not particularly noisy. It seems like an after hours hang out for yuppies. I'm peacocked with a wool cap, aviator sunglasses, vintage style jeans, a big peacocky, pimp jacket, vintage graphic tee ready to game hanging with yuppies who want to relax. Uh oh. My wing and I settle in for a minute before he goes back to correct his parking situation. I'm left alone, and truth be told, I am feeling very nervous. First night in town, completely unfamiliar with this bar, the scene, really no information to go on. Out of sheer necessity, I just start chating to two guys to my immediate right. It turns out they are socal "expats" also. After a moment of disorientation, they confide to me that they are up north now since the cost of living proved to be outrageous in socal pushing them up and out. They miss the beach, the weather, the social life, and I have to cut them off since they are starting to get me down! Cool guys nonetheless. I'm too chicken to chat up four blonde hotties closest to me, behind the two guys I just talked to.

I see a couple of busted Asian girls; a warm up set, just to get me talking. First the guys, then busted girls, then hopefully some hotties. On my way over to the two, I see a blonde who stands in the center of the room, stupefied, looking around.

Me: "you look confused."
Her: "I'm ok," she says laughing. "Thank you, though." Already blown off.

I walk over to the busted Asian girls. They look even worse up close. They are thin and fashionably dressed but horse faced and coarse skinned up close. This is better than standing at the bar doing nothing, I tell myself. The uglier of the two immediately excuses herself when I roll up and say hi how you doing? Bad sign. The more attractive one/less busted one, converses with me. She seems unenthused. I am unenthused. The uglier one returns. We chit chat about the night life. They say they don't know much about the nightlife and rarely go out. Nonetheless, I stay in set as long as my stomach will allow, which is about five minutes.

After about ten minutes, my wing is back. We look around for a bit, and he likes this place a lot. I'm a little disappointed with how conservative the crowd is dressed and how the energy level is. After experiencing how funky, diverse, and high energy the night life is in Los Angeles, the laidback, almost stuffy crowd here in Portland strikes me as a major let down.

My wing games two girls (sisters) at a table near the bar. The brunette is about a '7' and her blonde chubby sister with glasses is about a '5'. He runs the 'best friends' test and 'trust test' with the two girls. They begin to giggle out loud after he tells them about the 'best friends' test (this is a cold read where lots of eye contact between two girls is one sign of being best friends). Then he tries a 'trust' test to introduce kino. The girls lay their hands on his which are palms up. If they move their hands down in unison with his when he drops his hands, that's a sign of trust. The brunette '7' fails but the blonde drops her hands in unison. My wing guesses that the '7' has a boyfriend. He then offers the girls his phone and allows either or both of them to give him their number: "it's your choice," he says. The brunette points to her sister and says she will give him her number. He takes the number and we split.

This was awesome. This is the first time someone has demonstrated cold reads to me, and it clearly 'works' in the sense of generating interest on the part of the girls. Great work by my wing.

***

GAME VENUE TWO: HIP BAR/CLUB

Again, after circling and getting lost, we wing up and meet up with my wing's hottie co-worker. In the past, my wings and I have tended to disagree about how hot girls are, so I don't really know what to expect. There is a girl near the entrance checking her phone for messages. She looks like a model. My wing casually points to her and says that's her co-worker! Whoa! This guy wasn't lying! She is indeed a hottie. In the night, in the dim lighting of the club, she's a '10.'

The bouncer, a fat blonde white guy with furrowed brow at the door, checks my ID like U.N. weapons inspectors inside Saddam's kitchen. After what seems like forever, he hands me my ID back but warns me: "if you put on those sunglasses inside the club, you'll be kicked out." I agree jovially. Fat ass hater. I'll refer to him as "Shrek" from now on. My peacocky look is already creating hatred and jealously (at least that's what I tell myself). Right on.

Inside th club, my wing introduces me to "hottie co worker (HCW)." She smiles and shakes my hand enthusiastically. Nice girl.

Me: "that bouncer told me I couldn't wear my sunglasses inside the bar. Can you believe that?" I complain to HCW.

HCW: "He's a racist. He's a racist against Europeans, too!"

She might not be a genius, but she is nice.

HCW: "oh my god! I forgot to bring money!" My wing offers to pay. Bad sign. This girl might be playing him. Earlier, my wing said that while she has a boyfriend, she's agreed to go to lunch with him in the past, and agreed to go out as part of a group to a club with him. "Tonight, I'm single," she had told him earlier. He's reading this to mean that she is willing to go all the way. But based on her "forgetting" her money, I'm not so sure.

We get past the bouncer, the cashier, the coatcheck, and the main bar to the dance floor.
We stand around chat for a while. I run the "fyck/marry/kill" test on her.

Me: I put my hand around HCW's waist. "OK, I'm going to pick out three guys in this room. And you have to tell me which one you want to FYCK! (HCW lowers her head, slaps her knee and starts laughing out loud), which one you want to marry, and which one you want to kill."

I point to an Asian guy in a fashionable track jacket to our front right, a corporate casual dressed white guy to our immediate front, and a Una bomber look a like (beard, brown corduroy pants) to our front left.

HCW: "I would fyck him (points to the Asian guy)...

Me: "...all right, you picked the Asian guy!"

HCW: "...kill him (points to corporate casual), and marry him (una bomber).

Me: "what?! You're going to marry the una bomber?"

HCW: (Eyes diverted) "He could help me around the house and fix things."

The picture is becoming clear: this girl is a player who wants to fyck attractive guys, but marry guys she can exploit and use (my wing for his money, the unabomber for his redneck handiman/craftsman skills). The picture is not looking good.

My wing is kino-ing her, massaging her shoulders and holding her waist. I'm talking to them both, but looking around, surveying the scene, especially for hotties. HCW asks me how long I've been here.

Me: "This is my first night in Portland."

HCW: "Really?!"

Me: "Yeah, I like it here. I want to visit some other places though, like Seattle," I say smiling.

HCW: "Oh really? I want to visit there too. Let's go next weekend!"

Me: I'm starting to get suspicious. Is this girl serious? A four to six hour road trip with a guy she barely knows? Clearly, she has an impulsive, spur of the moment personality. I'm a little taken aback so I don't follow up. However, I'm thinking, she's laughing at my jokes, kinoing me and inviting me on road trips, so I want to at least number close her. I'm torn, since my wing has told me already she is his target. I have to restrain myself, thinking of the long term. This guy could be a long term wing in Oregon for me. Hmmm.

My wing gets her out on the dance floor. She pulls me by the arm to the dance floor too. He begins to run his 'game....'

TBC...

NorPacWolf · Jan 16, 2006

CONCLUSION

So here goes:

Wing: "show me how to dance."

HCW: "What?" She has a confused, almost angry/irritated look on her face. She pulls her head back away from his when he says this and frowns with her brow.

Wing: "You were going to show me how to dance." He is trying to isolate her, but it's not working. Whether it's for safety or because she's an attention hor, or whatever, she'd rather not "show him how to dance." Now the two begin to argue; the wing negs her, and she gets even more pissed off. I'm just waiting for the drama to settle down, so we can dance and I can look for AI's from other chicks as a result of my pivot/social proof.

We finally all begin to dance somehow. Wing gets behind her trying to grind her lightly. I'm dancing on my own, just enjoying myself. HCW grabs me by the shoulders. "Where are you going?! Come over here." She holds me by the shoulders and massages me. I just start acting the fool, yelling out the song lyrics in a coarse, raspy voice. HCW starts giggling like crazy.

We continue like this the whole night. HCW and I lightly kino and grind inconspicuously: holding of the hands, arms, around the waist, incidental grinding. I have to be careful, because my wing is clearly trying to kino and isolate her. I'm ignoring her, turning my back to her, not looking at her directly and she is pulling me back in.

A girl clumsily bumps into me (brunette '7').

Her: "Oh, I am sooo sorry."
Me: "Oh that's all right. Hey, what are you drinking."
Her: "It's a vodka."
Me: "I love vodka! Let me have some of that!" She thinks for a second, then agrees. We chit chat very briefly, bu I run out of material and let her go.

HCW: "What did she say to you? Did she ask you to dance with her?" HCW clearly responds to competition, and appears to be slightly jealous already.

Now we're in the middle edge of the dance floor, just talking. A girl taps me on my shoulder. I turn around and a beautiful Asian girl with flawless skin and teeth (nice hair and eyes also) asks me a question about my hat. It turns out that I've accidentally lef the price tag on my hat! lol.

Her: "why did you leave the sticker on your hat?" It doesn't appear to be an insult, she seems genuinely curious.
Me: "I'm old school, baby."
Her: "oh ok!"
At this point, I'm having a hard time hearing her and following the conversation. I'm also confused about why she wants to me talk to me. I try to continue on with the conversation, trying to stay 'in set.' She introduces me to her blonde 7.5 friend and she smiles warm and shakes my hand. The convo is waning and I try to close her.

Me: "you're cool, how do I get in contact with you again? Give me your number."
Her: "oh, I don't think it would work out...I'm married."
I lift her left hand and there's the rock.
Me: "it was nice talkin' to you! Take it easy!" I scream over the music.

My wing and I head out to the bar for a breather and to meet up with more people from his crew.

Wing: "what do you think my chances are of closing her tonight at this point?"

I tell him I'm not sure. I had warned him in an earlier email not to worry about any one chick in particular but to exploit her as a pivot if it doesn't work out. I'm not sure if he's digesting this, as he apears to have a case of one-itis.

HCW catches up to us, as does one of her girlfriends, a short brunette '7'. Brunette7 smiles very warmly as we shake hands. The short7 negs me pretty hard three straight times. She must like me, lol.

Short7: "hey, did you just come back from skiing?! Ha ha!" She has immediately taken notice of my wool cap.

Short 7 again: "How do you say your name? Sam? Sham? Saaaam I amm! Ha ha."

I take off my hat and try it on sideways.

Short 7: "ewww, your head has ridges on it!" she says before I can replace my hat. The cap has left small ridge like imprints on my forehead.

....According to Mystery, "negs" are a demonstration of higher value or of active disinterest. Instead of supplicating, you show a girl you are not needy by negging her. Apparently this girl is gaming me: she is trying to bring my value down so it's closer to hers. Interesting. I don't follow up: I don't realize until I'm out of set what she was just doing. I actually felt bad because of her negging! Doh!

I'm ready to bail. I can't really game HCW, since that would be a violation of the rules (bros before ho's). Also, there's ample evidence that she's a "player" who responds to the principle of scarcity and prestige. She goes with the man who is least needy and wants to be in places that are hard to get into (for example, earlier that night, she insists on getting into the "VIP" loung upstairs, even though the VIP area just has people sitting on their asses staring at people who are dancing).

***

CONCLUSION:

Lesson learned: Clearly, HB10's can be gamed, but my wing is playing the game the wrong way. He should try to game other girls in front of her, and get her jealous. Instead he is pressuring her to pay attention exclusively to him, and second, he is kinoing her and trying to isolate her without getting any IOI's first. In other words, he is demonstrating evidence of needy behavior and it's turning her off. The more she resists (pulls), the more he pushes, which in turn leads her to pull away even more. Mystery's theory is indeed correct. Jealousy, competition and scarcity stoke the fire of the HB.

Lesson learned 2: a girl "negging" you, especially if it's done in a playful way, is a good sign; a DHV. Go with that.

Lesson learned 3: you MUST have either: an AI (approach invitation) or an introduction (social circle) in order to get your set to heat up. I was introduced three times, and the girls were very nice each time. I cold approached at least three times, and the girls were well, pretty cold. This cannot be a coincidence. Cold approaches are frowned upon, even in the 'big city' in Oregon. Just deal with it. Portland is still a 'hick' country town (albeit a genteel one) in many ways, and has not shed its roots yet.

Lesson learned 4: Fashion is indeed important. My wing says I look 25 with my gear on. (I'm not 25 btw). Also, girls openly stared at me.

Now, I just wish I could f-close lol.

NorPacWolf · Feb 4, 2006

AMOG WING...AGAIN

Another night out, another AMOG wing. With friends like these, I don't need enemies. I'll recap and then report on the latest wing disaster.

Preface: My New Environment:

Just as background, I'll recap some fundamental differences between Oregon and Southern California. The people in Oregon walk, talk and drive at an excruciatingly slow pace. I regularly find myself outpacing and ducking past people walking in my direction ahead of me to pass them, I find myself hitting the brakes frequently to slow down to the speed limit since everyone else is, and I have to make a conscious effort to slow down my speech lest people become confused and/or frightened. Also, social events and gatherings feature a great deal of active inactivity. That is, even when people are "going out" they tend to simply just sit there. Literally. Just sit there. This is mind numbingly boring for me, but it's a preferred activity, especially among people who know each other well. Onto the field report.

Since I'm fairly new, I don't know many people in this state, and on top of that, I am experiencing a degree of culture shock (as noted above). As a result, I am muddling around attempting approaches with at best, mixed results. Very recently, I have posted on this board in search of wings, not naturals per se, but guys who are at least familiar with the rudiments of a structured game. I met a couple of wings tonight for the first time, and given the fact that we've never met before and therefore don't know much about each other's personalities, and probably because we have not talked explicitly about winging rules, it's not surprising that the results were very frustrating to say the least.

Wing #1:

First wing I meet is a younger guy in his twenties from the east coast. I meet up with him at a shopping mall, and after just a minute or two, I feel at ease with this aspiring player. Like me, he speaks loudly, likes to tell stories, joke around and just generally shoot the ****. I'm not really interested in his pickup and winging skills yet, but just in getting familiar with his vibe to assess whether we can wing together long term, or whether our personalities are so radically different that we would be best off gaming separately. Example:

Wing: Man, I need to go take a whiz, but I can't just go around asking chicks: 'hey, I need to take a leak, do you know where the bathroom is?'

Me: Just go ahead and say that. That's your opener man. Hey, excuse me, I need to take a leak, where's the can?'

We both laugh out loud knowing we're both talking trash and having a good time. I tell my wing that my only goal tonight is to crash and burn and get as much information about my new surroundings as possible. I have no expectations because I find my environment so unfamiliar: information and calibration, that's it. I'm not sure if my wing is encouraged by this or not lol, but Oregon is that different and I am resigned to building a base from the ground up.

Approach #1:

I cajole him into heading to a downtown bar and grill, primarily so I can eat and not pass out before I can do approaches. But while my wing's tracking down a restroom, I'm forced to talk to a girl. There's a strikingly attractive, early twenty ish middle eastern girl operating a novelty stand in the mall. I strike up a conversation with her about the necklaces she is selling, but this approach is lukewarm at very best. Subtext: In Oregon, people have generally known each other for an extended period of time, since immigration, migration and tourism are typically at very low levels. In other words, people take their time getting to know each other. I am trying to be indirect, talking to her over my shoulder, not facing her directly, asking innocuous questions, and so on. It's not going well, as she eyes me suspiciously. Another problem: she doesn't understand or speak English that well either. My wing shows up, we both chat with her, but the approach is basically going nowhere and we end up bailing.

Approach #2:

My wing grabs a beer and I down a huge plate of food. We talk about sports, and just hang out. About ten or fifteen minutes in, we ask the bartenders whether there are some good bars to go to. My wing adds that we're looking for "good looking girls." Just as he says this, a two set (brunette 6 and blonde 8) seat themselves three seats to our right. The bartender points to them and says to us: 'there are some good looking girls.' My wing is quiet, and I'm too chicken to approach right away. 'I'll approach those chicks as soon as I down my food,' I tell my wing to lighten the moment.

When I'm done, I ask my wing, 'what should I use as my opener?' He's wracking his brain, and his brow is furrowed. I think out loud, 'I could use an opinion opener, or I could go situational...' I open with a neg.

Me (to the blonde): 'hey, what's up with those sunglasses?'
Brunette 6: 'hey, don't try to pickup on my friend! What's up with your hat?!' (I'm wearing a wool cap).

Immediate mistake: I break a cardinal rule of Mystery Method: I game the target right away. As a result, the non target gets jealous and ****blocks immediately.

Mistake two: this is a low key, relatively quiet bar and grill, and I am talking too loudly for the environment. At one point I yell at the girls: 'hey, I can't hear what you're saying!' The bartender chimes in: 'that's all right, everyone else can hear what you're saying!' ****blocked again.

I still keep at it: 'so what brings you girls to California?' I don't even realize my mistake. 'What are you girls laughing at?' Blonde 8 runs over to me, and says: 'You said what are you girls doing in CALIFORNIA! Ha ha ha!'

I know I'm out of the set, but I am so glad I attempted the approach. I realize all of my mistakes right away: my energy level is much too high, I gamed the target immediately, and I simply did not make any effort to close the physical space between myself and the set. All strategic errors which can be corrected.

My next wing shows up....TBC

NorPacWolf · Feb 4, 2006

AMOG WING PT. TWO

Wing #2:

This is where things get hairy. I had been in contact with this wing via phone and email for over a week. On the one hand, I am pleased to be communicating with him as he's been residing in oregon for three plus decades. This is potentially a huge asset as my main problem is culture shock: confusion about the rules of game in a state with a slow paced lifestyle and with very tight knit social circles. We have been talking about game in Oregon and he advocates breaking into the circle of natives, as he has been able to do. On the other hand, there is a gap in age (I'm in my thirties and he is nearly twenty years my senior). He says that he looks fifteen years his junior, which immediately raises my suspicion, since this is typically only possible through extraordinary attention to diet, exercise, skin care, mental and emotional health, and so on. The only other possibility is cosmetic surgery. He is either rich, evinces extraordinary attention to his health, or is prone to exaggeration. I discover it is the latter. Wing #2 walks in, and this gentleman in his 50's looks like, well, like he is in his fifties.

I greet him with a smile, introduce him to the younger wing, and buy Older Wing (#2) a drink. We chit chat for a bit, and I quickly inform him that I had been gaming a two set (still seated to our right) unsuccessfully. I tell him however that I made a major mistake within Mystery Method by gaming the target immediately and tell him explicitly to game the brunette (non target) first and foremost to get the target jealous. He opens the set in completely the opposite fashion that I did (which is a good thing lol). Instead of blurting out a neg, he opens with "excuse me..." Very Oregonian, I tell him later (Oregonians are notoriously polite). He stays in set a long time (fifteen minutes?) and number closes the brunette. It is clear that both girls are at complete ease with him. At the end of the conversation, he gives both girls a hug. Nice!

I ask him for details. I'm already certain of what I had done wrong earlier but want to pick his brain after his successful sarge. He tells me that the girls tell me what I had done wrong, to him. I ask him if it was both girls or the blonde. He admits then that it was actually the brunette who had criticized my behavior and not the blonde. Then, he says that the girls (or was it the brunette again, I'm not sure) had first asked him if he knew either of us. He said that he didn't; that he had just met us. He says he had to tell them that, or that he would have "lost" the set. "If they associate me with YOU GUYS, they would've thought: 'aaah'...."

Now I find myself in a tricky situation. I have sometimes been in set where my target is clearly irritated with one of my wings. When I am in set and face this situation, I either defend my wings, or at best remain neutral and say nothing if my target criticizes my wing/s. I am left feeling uneasy about this interaction. I've tried my best to be gracious with this second wing, but he seems ready to abandon me at the slightest sign of danger. Hmmm, interesting. We'll see if this pattern continues.

We find ourselves at a dance club. No wool caps allowed, but other types of hats are allowed. I pass, my wings go into the club. I tell them I'm out. They say they'll only take a look around for a while. Fifteen minutes later, they're out of the club. My first wing is elated since he's done his first approach and she's given him IOI's. I high five him and congratulate him.

AMOG Shows True Colors at the Strip Club:

We find ourselves at a strip club now, our third venue. And this is where my wing's tendency to exaggerate and to AMOG me begins to seriously piss me off. A stripper sits down to talk to him after they chat for a moment at the bar. He brags to the first wing that she will come back to him after she gets up to leave "because she feels a high level of comfort with me." As a matter of fact, she does come back. The first wing is amazed. Later, this same stripper sits down with another group of clients. And then with another group of clients still. It appears that this stripper is feeling "a high level of comfort" with a great many Oregonians this night.

During the time that the stripper is seated at our table, Older Wing introduces me to her. This wing and I had talked earlier over the phone and he had warned me expressly never to say to Oregonians that I was from southern california. He claimed that Oregonians felt threatened and were intimidated and yet somehow felt in awe of southern californians all at the same time; best not to stir up a hornet's nest. I was down with that. After all that hot air, he introduces me by name to the stripper, and adds: "He's from southern california." I'm really disappointed by this clown. He had warned me about not introducing myself as a southern californian, and I was ready to introduce myself as a northern californian (I've lived there also), but, I didn't get the chance. I glare in disappointment at "wing" #2. I correct him and say: "well I'm originally from northern california, yes, but I've lived in southern california." AMOG bullshyt. Sigh.

Lesson learned: ALWAYS work out wing rules prior to winging with a new guy.

Lesson learned2: A talented AMOG will befriend you at first but will then later employ subtle putdowns and undermine you in an apparently superficially, friendly way ("I'm trying to HELP you, Wolf'; "I'm INTRODUCING you to Oregonians, Wolf'). This preserves the air of graciousness while fycking the competition over. Absolutely ruthless and brilliant!

I've winged with four different aspiring PUA's and two of the four have explicitly attempted to screw me over, subtly or blatantly. Weak inner game. Nonetheless, I'll still look for a quality wing or two. In the meantime, I've still got two wings who are cool to hang out with.

Question: How often do you encounter an AMOG wing? What do you do when you encounter this type of situation?

Peace,

Wolf

El MonoLoco · Feb 5, 2006

WOW!!!!!!!

Where was this post years ago?????

NorPacWolf this post is excellent. Despite all the trouble you're going through you are rising above all that holds you down.

I'm impressed to say the least.

I kind of know what your going through in a slightly off kind of way. I moved from the suburb of a Big City to a smaller college town in Norther Cali. Now where I live does have some Big City qualities , but it holds true to its small town nature. Even transplants from big cities seem to calm down and merge into the surroundings. There are a lot of people here from SoCal but they seem to forget that for some reason. People seem to group up real quick. Especially the newbies and freshman from the college. Don't get me wrong this place is a party school for sure. However the bars only offer so much and anything else is either Frat parties or smaller house parties. So the night life is limited for the older crowd. I graduated 2 years ago so I'm kind of out of the college loop to some degree.

I've been here for almost 8 years though and despite the flow of people that move through from year to year there are still small groups that seem to stick around. My face is farely known because I used to work downtown and I used to be out all the time throwing parties and what not. But word travels fast between these groups and there is a lot of networking between them so its hard to keep a low profile sometimes. I even moved away for a couple of years and when I came back it was like nothing had changed except there were some new faces here and there. The college kids come and go, some stay, but the locals are fairly permanent. I almost always get a "don't I know you from somewhere" every time I go out.

But the trouble is the girls seem apprehensive about beign sarged on. It's like I'm too aggressive sometimes. When I settle down into the flow things seem to go well. But if I start to force things it never works. There was this one chick I met while I was working downtown that shed the light on this for me. After # closing her I called her up and set a date at bar that wasn't too far away from either of our houses and we met there. ( There are like 12 bars in a 15 block radius here). The whole time we were there she was tripping out about how she just met me and she couldn't believe what she was doing and why would she give her # to some one she just met. I was just learing all this DJ stuff so I was acting pretty forward in those days. Most of her insecurities were my fault for not understanding how to build a connection. I was just beginning in my DJ days. We actually had a lot in common and she never seemed bothered by the fact she just met me when she gave me her #. She is just an example though of some of the resistance I've felt here while pushing the sarge.

It seems like a lot of the things you learn here aren't focused toward smaller towns. Or I haven't been able to adapt them to my surroundings. For example many guys who post here can go out everyday and not see the same girl twice. I almost always see the same people all the time. And it's not like I'm stagnat in my social circles either. It's just this place is small. You can't game a girl and screw up one week and not see her out again the next week. I don't believe one can ever make up for blunders one makes unless those involved are never seen again. But you try to close a girl and fail most likely her friends know and their friends will eventually know and so on. It gets to the point where you can't talk to anyone because they all know you tried to pick up this girl and this girl or this girl. It gets frustrating. I try to block it out and keep on sarging but when you come up to people and the say " or your that guy" I've already lost. I also get the why are you talking to me look a lot and this place is usually very friendly. Most people will say hello on the street or smile at you. But lately as I've tried to be more aggressive with my sarging it seems like people are put off by being approached while they are standing in line or walking down the street.

I don't really know where I'm going with this....I just wanted to show you that you are not alone in the small town thing, if I even did that. I've learned a lot from your FR as I too am still learning. And it looks like I've still got a lot to learn yet. Keep up the good work. If you're ever in Nor Cal look me up I'm always down to go out and sarge, be a wing, whatever....just pm me.

:rockon:

NorPacWolf · Feb 6, 2006

SMALL TOWN SARGING OR SMALL TOWN DESPERATION?

EML, I'm glad the post helped you to reflect on your situation and how best to adapt to it. I think you really get to the heart of the matter when you say:

"When I settle down into the flow of things seem to go well. But if I start to force things it never works."

---I'm learning this lesson also. Very slowly but surely, I have begun to adopt some of the principles that small town peoples live by: I'm much more courteous than I used to be, I often prefer quiet moments with those I know well as opposed to the raucous conversations that I partook in on regular occasions previously.

Then again, more often than not, I speak too loudly and too quickly, swear too often, am too opinionated, too ribald, my body language too animated and confrontational, you get the picture.

There is a third or grey area too where I now, with conscious effort, mold my behavior to fit in with the locals. Even then, it remains appallingly unclear where I stand with a chick. For example, today I chatted up a very cute blonde at a clothing store (not only was she cute but she was staring at me while I was standing in line---an AI, right? Right? I can only hope lol). She was very polite, smiled a lot, and insisted on helping me when I told her that another girl had been helping me earlier. As we spoke, I took pains to speak in a low tone of voice, to avoid long periods of eye contact, and I smiled whenever I looked at her. At the end, I thanked her for her help and shook her hand (this is as much, maybe even more, kino than is normally acceptable under such circumstances). She was very friendly, but was she *interested?* I have absolutely no clue. This is because her behavior falls completely within the purview of 'friendly small town behavior.' Now, my options are to take her behavior as IOI's and possibly make a fool of myself mistaking small town friendliness for IOI's, or just let it go and remain frustrated. Damm, just made up my mind to 'small town sarge' her in the near future lol.

My recommendation to those in my situation is to join classes, clubs, or organizations that cater to your interests which locals also happen to frequent. This will allow you to build rapport and comfort, and after all, they absolutely insist on it. These people, to quote John Mellencamp "were born in a small town, probably die in a small town..." The local HB's have gotten to know their current boyfriend over the course of fifteen years or longer, or have a friend who's known the guy for the same period of time or longer. Invest the time. Then, sarge the pickup friendly bars like a maniac at night. What about speed dating? You've got to resign yourself to working harder if you started off outside established social circles or have drifted outside of them.

Oh, one more thing: the sun was out today in Oregon for the first time in a long, long time. So I was feeling good. Gotta get one of those damm sun or light lamps or whatever they call them.

phoneproblems · Feb 7, 2006

bartender girls situ

great details here. I am thinking about the blonde/brunette 6/8 set in one of the last posts with sunglasses

in this situation, make the bartender your friend, use him to reel them in.

he says, "there are some pretty girls"

now you make eye contact with them, smile, and keep a convo going with him about them as you look them over. this will make them crazy curious as hell what you are saying about them and they will run over in no time

if they are in hearing distance, start talking some friendly trash about them like, "what, those girls there? I saw them come in a with a couple of Saudi princes five minutes ago. I don't deal with princesses." or whatever BS comes across your mind that will necessitate some kind of response from them

once they come over you continue the bs for a couple minutes, then wing wanders up and says cut the bull, let's get this show on the road. you number close and roll, and don't tell them where you are going, just imply it's a helluva a lot better than this joint

Ricky · Feb 7, 2006

This is a cool blog.

NorPacWolf · Feb 10, 2006

SPEED DATING!

Well, I just finished a speed dating pre-dating session this evening. I had a blast. It's pre dating because you only talk with each person for five minutes. After talking to a dozen people, you choose who you want to see again. Of course, the other person has to choose you too, in a double blind process so there's no telling if the match will occur until later. I'm assuming that's how it works anyway.

It was just so much fun talking to so many nice people. We were advised to show up fifteen minutes early in order to register, but also to have some informal time to chit chat with other speed daters. Everyone who I spoke to was speeddating for the first time, so there were no speed dating "players" this night if such a thing is possible.

THE LOCATION.
So, the event is held in a moderately sized coffeeshop on the outskirts of town. The coffeeshop is an independent, but the layout's a dead ringer for a Starbucks. The "hostess", and I don't want to say about anything bad about the people since it was such a great event, was, well, not the most gracious person possible, but instead ran the event like a drill sargeant. She has an enormous disdain for people who go over their time limit. It seems like I was singled out for admonition, even though everyone was going over the time limit. Hater. LOL.

INFORMAL CHAT.
I chat informally with several of the gals and guys who have showed up early. I ask one blonde (mid twenties, thin) who is there:

Me: "so what do you like to do for fun?"
Her: "anything you want," she deadpans. My jaw drops. I look to her friend to make sure I'm not hearing things.
Her friend: "Whoa! OK! Ha ha ha!" Her friend says, laughing and semi-shocked. I guess she heard the same thing I did.
Me: "She must have misunderstood what I was asking," I rationalize. I'm not sure what she thought I was asking, but I'm already enjoying speeddating.

I'm enjoying this a lot (PS: this girl and I talk later, and she seems quite nervous, for whatever reason. I wind up without any real sense of whether she's interested in me or not after we've chatted).

PRE-DATING.
There's a dozen guys and gals, and the guys rotate from table to table, while the females remain seated. We come to them. The first few conversations are very awkward, as we attempt to enter into very cookie cutter Q and A sessions about what we do for work, and after work, blah blah blah. After a couple of "pre dates" I decide to just wing it, and just stack based upon what the last girl said to me. I basically sell how wonderful the last girl I spoke to was to the new girl. I'm basically impressed with each of the people I've talked to, so 'selling the girls' to the next is not difficult or manipulative in anyway. It just 'made sense' to me at the time. Also, the standard Q and A is so boring, I'm liking the selling and ad libbing better.

One thing I do each time is ask about the fashion choices of each girl. The girls are not at all impressed when I compliment them on their appearance: some even go to pains to assert that they were not even trying to impress with their looks, so don't do that guys. They've heard that a million times, so it probably comes off as trite, shallow, or both.

There was a fifty fifty split between pretty girls and average looking gals this night. None were models, and none looked truly ghastly either: after all, they all knew they would have to look at least presentable. All of them wore something "dressy", rather than casual, which I for one appreciated. As for the guys, well, all I can say is, Oregon is very casual, and I would have to say none of the other guys made any real attempt to look chic. I didn't peacock heavily myself, but I made sure to wear nice jeans, a button down shirt, a matching jacket and some subtle peacocking accessories: one ring and one necklace. Although I have a hard time saying so definitively at this at this point since I clearly have no idea whether any of the female speed daters chose me or not, my initial impression is that your appearance does make a difference, especially if you only have five minutes to stand out from the crowd.

After a couple of "predates," I really just cut loose. I didn't care what impression I made, or what I said, as long as it was spontaneous and fun for me. I also wore my name tag on my head (my beanie actually). None of the girls made fun of me, and I used this as a running gag all night.

CONCLUSION.
If there are any budding entrepreneurs out there, guys, jump on the speeddating bandwagon IMMEDIATELY. There is the potential to make a small fortune with this concept. The organizers collected $35 a head. Multiply that by 24. And I am sure they could have organized many, many more of these events in the same evening, in the same town. Some people just feel uncomfortable with the unbridled, naked aggression (this can include guys being aggressively sarged by drunk gals mind you) common in your local watering hole, and if you rely solely on your social circle instead for potential dates, by a certain age, you are likely to encounter few if any single people: just people who are either married or in LTR's.

Everyone was gracious at the end of the speed dating pre dating, although the situation was potentially awkward since you had to be courteous to people who you may not have wanted to see again. Luckily, Oregonians are by and large very gracious people and the conclusion of the evening was handled with aplomb by everyone. I did say goodbye to one gal who I had my eye on: she was really nice and we hugged at the end of the night, so we'll see if the attraction was mutual or not.

Wolf

NorPacWolf · Feb 10, 2006

PREDATE TO ELIMIDATE?

I'm tossing an idea around: I predated thirteen gals last night. Nine of them want to chat or meet again, based on the preferences they filled out last night. I was thinking of an elimi-date style situation where I go out with three or more at a time and then eliminate one at a time until one girl wins a date with me. What do you guys think?

It sounds innovative to me (obviously since I'm posting the idea), which might come across as a fun idea in a state in which guys tend to dress down and probably go on very conventional dates. On the other hand, it might push the envelope a bit too far with these girls, who might also be very conventional in their thinking. I like watching elimidate and the concept of scarcity, competition and being the prize are all embodied in the concept. Think these girls are game, or should I go the safe route and try to see them one at a time?

Wolf

Small Town Sarging

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Don Juan

Master Don Juan

Senior Don Juan

Senior Don Juan