She called me cheap and "too aggressive"!

[S1NN3R]

Nope...I only date younger men, actually.

O RLY??

 

[Wyldfire]

O RLY??

Yes, really...but I wouldn't date anyone from this site. I prefer to be viewed as one of the guys here...which is exactly what I tell everyone.

That's good for you though...because it's highly unlikely you could handle me anyhow.

Okay...back to the subject at hand. :trouble:

 

[Rovalier]

I actually have 4 kids, not 2 and although I can pay my bills and provide for my family...I'm not well off by any means...and I do struggle at times. It's quite common that I do have to give up spending money for entertainment for myself in order to pay for things of a higher priority. Like I said...I have never had a guy pull this number on me in my entire life. I've insisted on paying at times, and especially if I did not want to see the guy again...because I didn't want him to feel like he had invested anything in an involvement that was not going to happen for me. So...I would not be expecting a guy to want me to pay unless he made that clear ahead of time. And yes, there would be a good chance that I would have to decline the "date" offer because of bills or other financial obligations. I have two teenage sons who damn near eat their weight in groceries each week. I'm talking two rounded full carts of groceries ever 7 to 10 days.

Yes, I would pass up a date with an attractive, confident and successful man in a heartbeat if he expected me to go dutch on a date he asked me for without first warning me that's what he expected. That is inconsiderate in my opinioin and not the way a gentleman would behave. I'm rather old fashioned and traditional in many ways and in light of the way I treat any man I get involved with I will accept nothing less than the same proper treatment for myself.

I'd rather go on a date with an unattractive, insecure and unsuccessful man who treats me like a lady and behaves like a gentleman and dine from the McDonald's dollar menu than go out with an attractive, confident and successful man who isn't a gentleman. I couldn't care less how much money a guy makes or what he has...but I do care how he treats me...and if he doesn't treat me like a lady he won't last long.

I get this feeling you are projecting a bit onto the said Field Report.

This 21 year girl is different from you. She might live a life of luxary, maybe even expect "transactions" moreso than you. Maybe she is accustomed to getting guys to give her gifts after sex every time. Like classical conditioning, she progressively demands more "rewards" for sex each time. Maybe she is spending 100-200 each week on clothing alone? Maybe daddy bought her a house even. Who knows.

She is not the same person as you. You are in a different circumstance and your attitudes and behavior are inherently different. Therefore, you will treat the guy differently than her, AND THIS FACT influences how the guys treats you. For better OR for worse (yea yea a cliché). Do you honestly believe, the poster of this topic would have treated you exactly the same as the girl he was dealing with? Or for that matter, would you have gone on a date with him to begin with?

 

[S1NN3R]

.....

 

[Wyldfire]

I get this feeling you are projecting a bit onto the said Field Report.

This 21 year girl is different from you. She might live a life of luxary, maybe even expect "transactions" moreso than you. Maybe she is accustomed to getting guys to give her gifts after sex every time. Like classical conditioning, she progressively demands more "rewards" for sex each time. Maybe she is spending 100-200 each week on clothing alone? Maybe daddy bought her a house even. Who knows.

She is not the same person as you. You are in a different circumstance and your attitudes and behavior are inherently different. Therefore, you will treat the guy differently than her, AND THIS FACT influences how the guys treats you. For better OR for worse (yea yea a cliché). Do you honestly believe, the poster of this topic would have treated you exactly the same as the girl he was dealing with? Or for that matter, would you have gone on a date with him to begin with?

It's very unlikely I would go out with him in the first place. That being said...if his policy is to not pay for the date he sets up and he doesn't let the women he goes out with know this ahead of time he's going to get a reputation as being cheap and he's not going to get any second dates from high quality women who are accustomed to and deserving of being treated like a lady. It's NOT doing that dutch thing that is the real issue here...it's him not letting it be known up front that is the issue.

 

[Rovalier]

It's very unlikely I would go out with him in the first place. That being said...if his policy is to not pay for the date he sets up and he doesn't let the women he goes out with know this ahead of time he's going to get a reputation as being cheap and he's not going to get any second dates from high quality women who are accustomed to and deserving of being treated like a lady. It's NOT doing that dutch thing that is the real issue here...it's him not letting it be known up front that is the issue.

From a logical point of view, it would be in the interest or either the guy OR girl to ask if it is dutch. It would suck if either side strongly assumed something, if he and she didn't bring enough money for the entire thing and they don't accept their credit cards. Well...

This is one of the many perks to knowing how to cook especially if you are cheap (even if you are not). I distrust certain restaurant food.

 

[coolguy676767]

Ok you said you dont pay for things for girls you hardly know. Ok that is very true and something that every guy should live by.

However you had sex with her on the first date......hmmm I THINK YOU KNOW HER NOW. I mean yeah if you hadn't had sex then it might bejustified, but hmm if you had sex I think you moved into the next stage of dating.

 

[TxCowboy]

From a logical point of view, it would be in the interest or either the guy OR girl to ask if it is dutch. It would suck if either side strongly assumed something, if he and she didn't bring enough money for the entire thing and they don't accept their credit cards. Well...

This is one of the many perks to knowing how to cook especially if you are cheap (even if you are not). I distrust certain restaurant food.

LOL ... Dont forget , women lack logic / reason ... ...

 

[Desdinova]

To be perfectly honest...I can't really afford to go out much. If a man asked me out to dinner and I accepted and he asked for separate checks without first making sure I was able to afford to go out dutch I would leave him sitting right there and he could have dinner by himself. Again...I don't mind paying my way AS LONG AS I KNOW AHEAD OF TIME. Then if I can't afford to go I don't go...simple as that.

Wyld, have you ever thought of saying "Well, I can't really afford it right now..." That's what today's women say. They don't leave it all on the man to assume she has or doesn't have any money. She lets him know right away. Whether she's lying or not is a different story.

Again...this can be attributed to many of you guys going for the worst possible women you can find.

500,000 Don Juans can't be wrong. The "worst woman possible" has become the common denominator. We're looking for the woman who isn't one.

No...I'm actually quite low maintenance. I actually tend to enjoy less expensive dates more than expensive ones...or ones that don't cost anything at all, for that matter.

You've just kicked yourself in the face with that comment. You've called everyone on here cheap, then you like it when we're cheap?

Wyldfire, at 40 years old you are completely out of touch to what young women ages 18-28 (which I would guess is the average age of guys on this site) are all about. This is not to be offensive but things have changed a lot in the past decade.

JPFromTally is correct. You've become too distanced from this generation of people to know how our social interactions work. It's almost difficult to believe that you're classed as GenX since you don't seem to fit with the ideals of this generation and the one following it. It sounds like you fit in better with the baby boomers.

 

[Wyldfire]

Wyld, have you ever thought of saying "Well, I can't really afford it right now..." That's what today's women say. They don't leave it all on the man to assume she has or doesn't have any money. She lets him know right away. Whether she's lying or not is a different story.

Des, why on earth would I do that when every man who I have ever dated has not only never asked or expected me to pay but always insist on paying? The times that I have insisted on paying my half because I really didn't much like the guy it was like pulling teeth from a hungry crocodile. The type of men I have always dated have similar values to my own...probably because I have no interest in men who don't behave like gentlemen with me. I know I'm picky about some things...but I honestly am seeing you guys taking this attitude as being completely and utterly without class. I genuinely find it to be quite disturbing and unorthodox...not to mention bizarre.

500,000 Don Juans can't be wrong. The "worst woman possible" has become the common denominator. We're looking for the woman who isn't one.

Exaggerate numbers much?

You've just kicked yourself in the face with that comment. You've called everyone on here cheap, then you like it when we're cheap?

Being frugal and choosing dates that are inexpensive is perfectly fine...hell, even wanting to go dutch is fine too...IF it's made clear up front before the date. "Cheap" is something different. It's not placing value in or having respect for the other person while expecting them to place value in and respect you. Being thrifty, frugal and money conscious is a choice someone makes in how they spend their money. Being "cheap" is more of an attitude of wanting everything while being willing to give nothing. That's the difference. Cheap isn't about money...it's an attitude, and one that isn't very flattering or attractive.

JPFromTally is correct. You've become too distanced from this generation of people to know how our social interactions work. It's almost difficult to believe that you're classed as GenX since you don't seem to fit with the ideals of this generation and the one following it. It sounds like you fit in better with the baby boomers.

That's not true at all because I do only date younger men. When I was 34 I had a 24 year old boyfriend...and he always paid. Every guy I've dated since 1994 has been younger than me. None of them have ever so much as suggested that I pay half.

I just find this practice to be so inherently wrong and screwy...I truly do.

 

[picard]

**** man. you are lucky to get laid on 1st date. Why didn't you treat her properly like gentleman by inviting her to formal dinner date? It is sad that guys like you give men a bad name. If you want to get laid, you could have a hooker.

I treat the ladies on my dates the whole works regardless of the outcome. I want practice conversational skills with women.

 

[picard]

This guy had the opposite problem to me. I went out with a girl and I treated her the nicest way as possible. I went to movie and nice dinner. She never return my phone calls or emails. I sent a valentine card and she didn't even thank me. I really pissed me was that she never returned my email as courtesy. I ask her once to go boat ride on a lake. I reserved the space and bought tickets. When I call her next time to go on that date, she said sorry, she had to meet her friends. I was really angry and upset. Why did she agree to go on boat tour with me then deliberately go with out with friends?

Do women have habit of not replying to email or phone calls?

 

[TxCowboy]

This guy had the opposite problem to me. I went out with a girl and I treated her the nicest way as possible. I went to movie and nice dinner. She never return my phone calls or emails. I sent a valentine card and she didn't even thank me. I really pissed me was that she never returned my email as courtesy. I ask her once to go boat ride on a lake. I reserved the space and bought tickets. When I call her next time to go on that date, she said sorry, she had to meet her friends. I was really angry and upset. Why did she agree to go on boat tour with me then deliberately go with out with friends?

Do women have habit of not replying to email or phone calls?

damn dude ... how much does it take for you to get the picture ? .... one phone call and a msg is more than enough and if she calls back then great ... take it up a level and if not , DONT worry about her anymore ... find a new girlie ...

 

[Wyldfire]

This guy had the opposite problem to me. I went out with a girl and I treated her the nicest way as possible. I went to movie and nice dinner. She never return my phone calls or emails. I sent a valentine card and she didn't even thank me. I really pissed me was that she never returned my email as courtesy. I ask her once to go boat ride on a lake. I reserved the space and bought tickets. When I call her next time to go on that date, she said sorry, she had to meet her friends. I was really angry and upset. Why did she agree to go on boat tour with me then deliberately go with out with friends?

Do women have habit of not replying to email or phone calls?

See picard...you went to the opposite extreme of the guy who started this thread. That's why you end up having the kinds of problems you do. It's great that you respect women...but in the process you can't lose respect for yourself. You need to find a balance that doesn't leave you so open to being taken advantage of. You also need to make sure that you don't act too asexual...and let her know you want more intimacy than just her company. It's true that there are women out there who will take advantage...and they are miserable for sure. You've got to learn how to spot those types and not waste your time with them. You've also got to make sure you respect yourself just as much as you do the women you go after.

 

[upsidedownside7]

I don't get it, anyone could see this coming...

-If you invite a girl out to eat you have to pay, you got yourself into that one. Coulda thrown a frisby, could of split an ice cream, could of invited her over to watch a movie instead you got her to a restaurant to sit down and eat, that itself is walking in the stages of courtship....friends don't have sex and then take eachother out on a dinner afterwards. It's YOUR FAULT it came to this.

-You totally made this girl feel like a slut. It was your responsibility to spin this around and make her DELUDE herself into romanticizing this hook up. Let me give you an example to elaborate...

i.e.
Facts: Boss cheats on wife with assistant, he never takes her out, goes to her place, blows his load on her face 2 times a week and makes no effort to physically pleasure her, makes empty promises, has no intention of leaving the wife.

Girls mind: My domineering successful boss chose ME out of all the girls in the office, we have such a huge age difference but we can still connect, I always feel good after being with him, I don't understand why he won't leave his wife. He says she's terrible and unloving. I love him, if only I could get him to leave her I would finally have a man and he could get the love he's never gotten.

-Alright dude do you see what I mean? You left this girl no ground to delude herself on. If you told her upfront "lets f*ck and that's it" then demanding her to pay half is one thing but to act one way and get to know her and then turn around and act THIS WAY showed you only wanted her P*SSY.

-If you want to see this girl again which I think you can since she will want to validate herself after giving herself to you, this is what I would do.
Wait a small while, call her and show some weakness. Either say you dont know what a healthy relationship is like, you know you can't make it up to her but you can't move on until you ease her pain...I dunno something. Get her to do something fun with you and open up a little to her. Not open up like "I love you" but exchange values with her and tell her facts about yourself which reveal your personality. This alpha stuff is important but to say there's no manipulation in playing this game is DEAD WRONG.

 

[diplomatic_lies]

. When I was a college kid, "dates" consisted of watching a DVD ($1 to rent) at her place, drinking a bottle of coke ($1.50 from the bakery), and eating cheerios ($1 from the bakery). So overall, a date only cost us $3.50.

Boy, the good old days...

 

[micams]

To picard

This guy had the opposite problem to me. I went out with a girl and I treated her the nicest way as possible. I went to movie and nice dinner. She never return my phone calls or emails. I sent a valentine card and she didn't even thank me. I really pissed me was that she never returned my email as courtesy. I ask her once to go boat ride on a lake. I reserved the space and bought tickets. When I call her next time to go on that date, she said sorry, she had to meet her friends. I was really angry and upset. Why did she agree to go on boat tour with me then deliberately go with out with friends?

Do women have habit of not replying to email or phone calls?

I encourage everyone here to read the message board of thirdage.com about the Rules: it's quite educational.
The biggest and more important to every woman out there is to NEVER return any mail or phone call. Perhaps the max authorized is one return for 10. I was quite shocked by this, I thought that the rule was 1 to 3 and I expected it. So the girls today especially young attractive ones filter the man by seeing how willing they are and persistent in their pursuit. So that's what I'm experimenting right now, the idea for them is if he's persistent enough, he's worthy if not, than NEXT.
It's hard but that's the rule. So know the reality and behave accordingly.
What is important is the outcome not the principle of equality that's almost never respected in our double standard society conditioning.

 

[Desdinova]

Exaggerate numbers much?

Allright, how about 20462 Don Juans? That's how many members are on this site as of this posting. It's still a large number, and those people wouldn't be here if they weren't having problems with today's women.

Des, why on earth would I do that when every man who I have ever dated has not only never asked or expected me to pay but always insist on paying?

Because you're polite.

"Cheap" is something different. It's not placing value in or having respect for the other person while expecting them to place value in and respect you.

We've all tried that route. We've placed value upon a woman we begin dating, and we get the old "friends" line. Respect, value, and trust has to be earned. I'm not asking her to pay for it all, I'm asking her to pay her share. If she can't cover her own ass, she's not worth dating. I'd rather not waste my money on someone who could potentially disappear tomorrow. Women today have jobs, so they have no excuse NOT to pay their share.

That's not true at all because I do only date younger men.

Dating etiquette hasn't changed much among men in the past 50 years. Many men (my former self included) will show up on first dates with a gift for her, pay for the entire meal without question, open doors, pull out chairs, ladies first, and all that good stuff. Today's male still views the woman as the weaker vessle.

Women are the ones who have changed. There hasn't (yet) been a major revolution for men, but there has for women. Women today demand (what they call) equality, take advantage of the chivalrous male for his money and courtesy, and they'll whine and scream if they don't get their own way. This didn't exist 50 years ago.

Women have destroyed themselves by taking feminism too far. Then, they complain that there aren't any chivalrous males around anymore. The truth is, they aren't interested in the chivalrous males who's confidence has been destroyed by today's society. Women want the confidence that radiates from the "Jerk".

 

[Socialreject]

How did she "flake"? He got what he wanted from her on both dates. After that second date she decided that she didn't want to see him anymore because she felt he is cheap. And don't even start with that "just because she had sex with him doesn't mean he should pay for her meal" crap. I can't even count the number of times I have heard guys complain about how they spent a ton of money on a girl and she didn't give him sex.

I can understand entirely if a guy wants to go dutch until they have sex...but once they have had sex he should be paying her way when he asks her out.

WTF Wyldfire?!

Are you actually trying to say we should pimp women?? Wtf is that all about. I don't even want to think about it that way or i'll spend the next couple months wondering whether i'm paying someone for sex or not when i'm buying them dinner/a drink/whatever.

I think the OP had it at the right end tbh! But i would have never taken her out on a dinner date for the second date. That's just asking for trouble imho. I avoid having to come to some sort of arrangement about who's gonna pay the bill at all costs because it does in fact make you seem cheap even if quite frankly it's honest. And having sex with someone for two consecutive dates to then disappear is kind of focked up, he was right to bust on her for that. But maybe the way he busted on her was just a tad bit rude. Like ok, if she had the right mindset she would have obviously viewed that as a joke, but the problem is that most people just aren't that laid back and you have to take the edge off a bit. C&f is great but sometimes it's better to mix a little 'nice' in it ;-)

That still doesn't mean he should have paid for dinner though!

And to comment on your 'i can't count the times i heard guys complain etc..'. Don't you think these guys are losers? I do, they need to get their head straight and stop trying to pimp women.

 

[Wyldfire]

Allright, how about 20462 Don Juans? That's how many members are on this site as of this posting. It's still a large number, and those people wouldn't be here if they weren't having problems with today's women.

Des...guys are having problems with women because they look no further than her looks when they choose to pursue them. That's what the problem is. You have to look a bit further than that. I'm just as shallow about looks as any guy on this site, I assure you...but it takes a hell of a lot more than a guy's looks to get me to go out with him or want him. And no, I'm not talking about income, car or any of that stuff. Personality, manners...and especially how he treats me. Why do you guys consistently pursue women that treat you like crap? Because you look no further than how they look...(not "you" per say, but men in general).

Because you're polite.

I'm polite to those who are polite to me. If someone is rude or disrespectful to me they get no love, no respect, no politeness, no anything...

We've all tried that route. We've placed value upon a woman we begin dating, and we get the old "friends" line. Respect, value, and trust has to be earned. I'm not asking her to pay for it all, I'm asking her to pay her share. If she can't cover her own ass, she's not worth dating. I'd rather not waste my money on someone who could potentially disappear tomorrow. Women today have jobs, so they have no excuse NOT to pay their share.

Again...there's nothing wrong with asking to go dutch...but you have to ask BEFORE she arrives. She might not have any money with her or might not be able to afford to go out. And placing value on the other person only gets you screwed over when you place MORE value on them than you place on yourself. If their behavior towards you indicates that they don't value you in the same way then you should never have invited them out in the first place.

Dating etiquette hasn't changed much among men in the past 50 years. Many men (my former self included) will show up on first dates with a gift for her, pay for the entire meal without question, open doors, pull out chairs, ladies first, and all that good stuff. Today's male still views the woman as the weaker vessle.

No woman really expects a gift unless it's a prom or formal event and then the guy should bring the corsage thing...or at least that's how it went when I was prom age. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a gentelman...it's actually very good to show manners, etiquette and such. The problem is not with that behavior...the problem occurs when a man picks a trashy woman and expects her to behave like a lady.

Women are the ones who have changed. There hasn't (yet) been a major revolution for men, but there has for women. Women today demand (what they call) equality, take advantage of the chivalrous male for his money and courtesy, and they'll whine and scream if they don't get their own way. This didn't exist 50 years ago.

Both men and women have changed...society has changed. Back when I was a kid there were less divorced parents. Even those parents who were divorced...the fathers were still involved in their children's lives. They supported their children and had a much, much stronger sense of responsibility. I had only one friend whose parents were divorced. Her mother wasn't having to go on welfare or struggle in the same manner you see today because the father did his part...including babysitting my friend's younger brother when his mother worked or taking him for a few days, buying groceries if the kids needed food. And if a guy got a girl pregnant he would always take responsibility, even if he was terrified. The sense of responsibility that both men and women have seems to have gone into the toilet.

Women have destroyed themselves by taking feminism too far. Then, they complain that there aren't any chivalrous males around anymore. The truth is, they aren't interested in the chivalrous males who's confidence has been destroyed by today's society. Women want the confidence that radiates from the "Jerk".

No...a few radical feminists have taken feminism too far. Not even 1/4 of the female population are feminists. You've got a very, very small minority of radical feminists who manipulate society through fear tactics and convincing women they are mistreated by men. The majority of women hear things like "Women only get paid 74 cents for every dollar men make.", "Every 2 seconds a woman is raped or killed.", "Every 5 seconds a man beats his spouse". Women are sent these messages and they learn to fear men in general. Yes, men should be angry about feminism...but damn it...don't take it out on the same women who are also being adversely affected by this very small handful of nasty radical feminists who are injecting poison into society. Most women couldn't give two sh*ts about feminism and don't consdier themselves feminists. Most are affected by it only because they have been convinced to fear men will hurt and use them. So now men are punishing those same women who have manipulated into fearing men by doing the very things that those nasty radical feminists told women that men will do. Ya gotta give those rotten radical feminist hags their props for developing one hell of an effective plan to manipulate society into doing their bidding, though...they have accomplished their goals, that's for sure.