sageproduct's senior year field reports.

[sageproduct]

Thursday, January 7, 2010

Eileen S (girl who sits next to me in math)
Had a few laughs with her today. Gotta build some rapport and find some way to kino before finals.

Failed Sexualization Attempt Last Night

Sherman C (athletic girl)-I've given up hope with her and accepted LJBF, but that doesn't mean I can't practice or try stuff on her right? Well she's an incredibly asexual girl, always wears hoodies n sweatpants and that kinda stuff, so last night when I got home I facebook chatted her and decided to try to make things sexual.

I got a good sex joke in when she asked what the reading for tonight was, I told her it was about sex. She said she hadn't read it, I was like "oh well that's ok cuz you already know everything from personal experience." I was a little nervous typing this, but she responded with "hahahahahaahah. youre funny." So I broke the barrier a bit. And tried to do more much later with this:

Me:
wear something different
like friday since you have a game tomorrow
Her:
maybe
Me:
only 'maybe'...even after all that sex you've been having
Her:
hhahaaha
Me:
wear something like...girly
Her:
nope.
not to school
lol
sweatpants/sweatshirt or jean/sweatshirt to school
Me:
most the girls i talk to, WON'T SHUT UP ABOUT WHAT THEYRE GONNA WEAR
haha where to then
Her:
haha
idk.
Me:
ohhh i know, to bowling ;-) [we were supposed to go bowling...]
Her:
lol no.

Well, I tried. I'll keep on doing "experiments" and testing my boundaries with her though.

Millie M (friend for a while)
Kinoed her tons today and just teased the sh1t outta her. I need to be with most girls how I am with her because when I interact with her I'm always very confident and always in control of everything (like being completely unpredictable). I tried to use bedroom voice as much as I could, lowering mine so that she was the only person who could hear. Also told her to wear more low-cut shirts like she did today but I didn't say it 100% directly cuz I'm not used to talking like that at girls at all. (which will change soon of course)

 

[Igetit!]

Sage,Sage,Sage...what are you doing?


While I applaud your attempt at being more sexaul with girls,you're going about it COMPLETELY WRONG.


I'm surprised you didn't get slapped or cursed out.

Failed Sexualization Attempt Last Night

Sherman C (athletic girl)-I've given up hope with her and accepted LJBF, but that doesn't mean I can't practice or try stuff on her right? Well she's an incredibly asexual girl, always wears hoodies n sweatpants and that kinda stuff,

You don't understand man. This girl isn't asexual.

Wearing hoodies and sweat pants don't mean she's asexual,she's just HIDING her sexaulness behind the hoodies and sweat pants.


But that's a side issue. You have a SERIOUS misunderstanding that needs to be cleared up SOON AS POSSIBLE,or you'll just end up walking around offending girls.

so last night when I got home I facebook chatted her and decided to try to make things sexual.

I got a good sex joke in when she asked what the reading for tonight was, I told her it was about sex.

You made a classic mistake here. Women are EMOTIONAL,but you came at her logically. You had a LOGICAL DISCUSSION about sex.

That won't work. You have to influence her feelings/emotions.

She said she hadn't read it, I was like "oh well that's ok cuz you already know everything from personal experience."

LOL,I can't believe you said that to her.

You need to chill out on talking like that. You sort of made it seem like she was a slvt or something. That's the number 1 turnoff for girls.

I was a little nervous typing this,

but she responded with "hahahahahaahah. youre funny." So I broke the barrier a bit. And tried to do more much later with this:

Me:
wear something different
like friday since you have a game tomorrow
Her:
maybe
Me:
only 'maybe'...even after all that sex you've been having

I...CANNOT....BELIEVE...you said that to her.

Sage,DON'T SAY STUFF LIKE THAT. The "s" word (sex) should NEVER come out of your mouth. You're not supposed to talk about sex DIRECTLY,you're supposed to flirt,tease,use innuendo,etc.

Well, I tried. I'll keep on doing "experiments" and testing my boundaries with her though.

I like the spirit man,but I think I need to explain what I meant a little bit better.

I don't have time now,because I've got to go to work,but I'll try to break this down better.



You had the right idea,you just went about it the wrong way.


Another thing is you still don't "get" what I said about there not being a "pause button" on attraction.



I'll go into greater detail about it later on.

 

[saturos]

I don't agree that sex should never be said, but i would definitley agree that you went about it the wrong way. Bold though, and a step in the right direction
And jokes = no. Witty/wordplay = yes

 

[sageproduct]

Ah. Haha well I'm glad you saw this before I do more damage. I tend to learn well by example, so if you could include a few more for your explanations that would really help me a lot

Edit

She fb chatted me twice again, and the second time said she "felt like sh1t" and "didn't want to do her work". So I was like "that's not what she should be talking about" so i said "well what do you want to do then...or who" and she said "you are ridiculous" and changed the subject

 

[Igetit!]

Ah. Haha well I'm glad you saw this before I do more damage. I tend to learn well by example, so if you could include a few more for your explanations that would really help me a lot

No prob.


Well like I said,don't talk about sex DIRECTLY.


You want to hint,imply,insinuate.


You want to say something to where the girl will connect the dots herself instead of you flat spelling it out for her.


For example,I once asked a girl out and I think she said she didn't know,I don't remember. Anyway,the conversation was something like this....


Me:So when are we going out?
Her:I don't know
Me:You don't know? Well what if I promise to be good for the first 15 minutes of the date?


There,you see that? I said,"What if I promise to be good for the first 15 minutes of the date?". That IMPLIES that after 15 minutes,I'm going to try to kiss her or make some type of move on her.



It "implies" that,but I didn't say that to her. But she can connect the dots herself. It makes her think sexaul thoughts about me,WITHOUT ME saying it.



And if you'll notice,I didn't say anything about "sex",never even said the word,but it's on her mind. NOT the physical act of sex,but sexualness,which leads to the act.



You can't be afraid to show that you're a sexaul person. Sexaulity is NATURAL,but a lot of guys hide it when talking to girls because they don't want to offend her.



Being "sexual" isn't what offends women,it's being VULGAR or PROFANE,as well as viewing women as sexual objects.




You have to show your sexual side,while at the same time viewing them as a person,an individual.

Edit

She fb chatted me twice again, and the second time said she "felt like sh1t" and "didn't want to do her work"

Another thing you can do it take what a girl says and twist it into something romantic/sexual.


Here,this girl said she felt like "sh!t". You could have come back at her with something like...


"You feel like sh!t? Hmm,it's too bad you're not over here with me cause I could make you feel a WHOLE LOT better."



Again,this is IMPLIED. I didn't say ANYTHING about sex,but this is where her mind will go,and that's what you want.



Remember:this is ALL to get her to feel sexual attraction for you. Once she feels the attraction,it'll be a WHOLE LOT EASIER to get her on a date.

So I was like "that's not what she should be talking about" so i said "well what do you want to do then...or who" and she said "you are ridiculous" and changed the subject

Yeah,now you're starting to get it.


Just remember to throw these little comments in there from time to time.

Don't spend the whole conversation talking like that. If you do,it'll seem weird.



It's good to show your sexaul side like this to a girl,but this ALONE will not get you a date with a girl. You have to do this AND ask her out.



If you just said remarks like these only without asking her out,it seems strange. She'll wonder why you keep saying things like that if you have no intentions of dating her.



So when you meet a girl you like,be a MAN and ask her out.


If she says she doesn't know,then say,"Well what if I promise to be good for the first 15 minutes of the date?"


I PROMISE YOU,you'll see a gleam in her eye. That "gleam" is a spark of attraction she felt FOR YOU when you made that comment.



Try that out. Remember,DON'T TALK ABOUT SEX. Say things that "imply" it.


And don't "IMPLY" it in general,make it personal,about YOU and her.



Alright,it's that time again,I gotta go to work.


Later man.

 

[sageproduct]

Hey you know what, this sounds a lot like a few months ago when I was trying to learn C&F...I was WAY overdoing it and making my conversations downright awkward by trying to make EVERYTHING I said C&F, so needless to say it didn't work out, and it definitely damaged a couple of my relationships with girls.

But now I'd definitely say I have a better grasp of C&F, and it wasn't possible until after I jumped right in it...so I'm gonna move on the same way with becoming more sexual.

Friday, January 8, 2010

I was tired as balls today. Slept very little, and for me, every single ability of mine seems to get worse when I sleep little. Includes doing work, studying, sports, game, and plain social skills.

A Plus
Hot, popular, and VERY sexual girl complimented me on what I was wearing today. Our class made a bunch of nice dry-fit shirts that support our bball team, and everyone was wearing 'em today cuz we were playing our cross-town rivals.

Well she walked by in class, stopped, kinoed my arm and told me I looked really spiffy today and that I looked better than all the other guys in these shirts. Now my inner game's definitely improved cuz I didn't bat an eye and just replied, "Oh I know" to which she responded, "But I'm being serious! You really do look good in that" and I kinda smiled and bellowed out "Oh well so am I."

This girl's got a bf in college, not a guy I particularly like but he is DEFINITELY a man who won't take any kind of BS and will fight for himself.

Eileen S (girl who sits next to me in math)
Wasn't there today. Gonna rip on her for missing a test.

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date)
Still haven't talked to her in any way since she texted me monday. What's not good is that I'm experiencing some one-itis symptoms for her (always thinking about her, daydreaming, losing interest slightly in other girls, mildly depressing moods when I think about ways i've fwcked up with her) even though I haven't seen her for OVER TWO WEEKS. I HAVE to get a grip on myself and put her back in her place (in my mind).

Progress Report, Where I Stand, etc.
Just wanna take some time to look over my progress, see what's gotta be done, pat myself for good things, kick myself for bad things, and vent on a couple other things just a little.

Social Skills
Just in general have improved drastically. This last week I've found myself ALWAYS laughing/smiling, having no trouble making and keeping conversation with anyone, whether it's a social person, a goofball, a geek, or a plain weirdo. I've also hit a plateau in my COMFORT kino. Comfort kino is what I use on anyone, guys included no homo but really I've just found it to be something that helps connect two people through the power of touch.

Body language-I'm pretty sure my body language projects confidence, and maybe even sexuality at some times. I'm CONSTANTLY aware to always be spreading my legs out when I sit down, taking up as much space as I can, getting comfortable, and showing good posture. My movements have also become very slow, natural, and defined.

Tonality-deep voice for natural conversation, a set of funny ones for jokes/imitations. Speaking much more slowly and clearly, and projection has also improved. I'm not afraid to talk loudly and let my voice boom. I used to mumble quite a bit and I've pretty much eliminated that.

A Little Different...Social Standing
So if all this were a race and my social skills = my speed, well I'm going a lot faster now but the problem is...I'm at a HUGE late start.

Basically, I no longer have a social circle at my school. The group of friends I've had for a couple years has been EXTREMELY boring to me, as well as filled with people who are just not good friends (two of them fwcking made fun of me for getting denied to my dream school while other, socially able people i know were expressing sympathy). Part of this is probably due to how much I've changed in the last few months, namely...in the time I've been on this site and writing field reports. Also, the girls in the group are undateable and the guys are total AFC's. So...time to move on.

Well where do I go from here? I've decided for myself that I'd rather be alone than hang out with people who bore me. Well I could say a social goal would be...work my way into one of the cool kids' groups. It's not something I'll actively pursue because that would be kind of weird and desperate. If I make it in, great, if I don't, well few months later I'm off to college.

There are two cool kids' groups I could see myself in. In both groups, I know and talk to almost every single person. A couple of the people LOVE me and connect really well with me, I'm pretty sure. But I can't just go, "Yo....can i hang out with you and your friends sometime". A few of these guys I like a lot. Not only are they cooler than my old friends, they seem to be much better friends too.

I Walk Alone EDIT: Not worth your time reading, this is just some venting
For now, I roam free without a friends group...it actually doesn't even matter much cuz I'm gonna be out of town like 4 of the next 7 weekends and I'll most likely spending a couple of the other ones hanging with my really good friends from a different school. Few parts that suck though, are just going to big events at school. Like the bball game I was just at, I went alone. Had a great time there, talked to a buncha people and everyone seemed to like me, but at the end....I went home alone. I wouldn't have been able to hang out anyway cuz I gotta be somewhere tomorrow morning but....whatever.

Maturbationnnn
I'm abstaining. It gets me hornier, and the constant desire for sex adds another layer of drive inside me, even if it isn't directed toward sex...hard to explain but I definitely do feel more energy, self-righteousness, and determination flowing through me.

(I've only done it once since December 29...and that one time was on Sunday. So Day 5 for me right now)

 

[sageproduct]

I feel like I'm on fwcking roids!!!!

Haven't jacked it since LAST Sunday. Holy sh1t, this is the horniest I've ever felt in my life. Every single time I got bored at school I started thinking about sex and imagined myself fwcking the sh1t out of any remotely attractive girl within my line of sight. I did a ****load of kegels for no fwcking reason. And I'm incredibly high on energy and have a VERY short fuse right now and have this insatiable desire to go workout. This must be what roids feels like.

Monday, January 11, 2010

Talked to the same old b1tches, BORING. Except for...

Eileen S (girl who sits next to me in math)
Ripped on her right when I walked in for missing the test Friday. Talked a little bit, fluff, not much rapport, too far away for kino, convo cut short. I have basically only tomorrow left to interact with her, then she's gone.

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date)
Saw her very briefly, it was kinda awkward. Thankfully, I was walking with some studs, our starting MLB, CB, and WR. Was actually joking around with them and didn't see her coming our way til she was pretty close, and I barely mouthed out a "hey". Couldn't really tell if she said anything or not.

Smith S From the annals of my pathetic past
End of soph year, I met her through a friend and hung out in a group ONCE. Month after that, we started talking a SH1TLOAD on AIM. Like every other day for hours. Needless to say, I was ridiculously friendzoned, plus I had HUGE one-itis for her, disaster blah blah blah. After a while she stopped going on AIM so we stopped talking lol.

Over the summer, we talked a little on FB and found out we have a class together. Well, it's been a whole semester and...I haven't spoken a word to her.

How is this relevant?
What a coincidence, she happens to be pretty close friends with Mel K (i'm pretty sure). Well, all I want is to just fwcking talk to her a LITTLE bit so that it's not so awkward between us. We used to talk ****LOADS on AIM and like twice in person the entire time I've known her. Pathetic. Well I've been putting this off forever, I don't really like her anymore, I just don't want it to be awkward anymore so I'm gonna make some BS fluff talk with her. That's it.

 

[sageproduct]

Tuesday, January 12, 2010

Roid Rage continues: 8 days since i've jacked off

Eileen S (girl who sits next to me in math)
Finally got some time to talk to her a little more. Built a tiny bit of rapport when she said she's "friends with individuals and not groups", to which I agreed. Just wasn't enough time to talk, and today was the last day she's gonna be in that class cuz she's graduating early.

I felt like I didn't build enough rapport to get her number. Looking back, I should have just gotten it anyway. The only plus was that she said she'd let me know if she got this one job or something, so if she does fb me outta nowhere my only shot left is to set something up over fb.

Bottom Line: I procrastinated and b1tched out. I had weeks to talk to her but waited til the last moment. The class was a very sh1tty one for talking but I just need to get over those kinds of excuses.

Smith S (one-itis from 2 years ago, Mel K's good friend)
Could have talked to her if I went a LITTLE out of my way but didn't. Should have.

Mel K (ice cream-bowling)
For those of you who have been following this...here's the past weeks
Week before last Wed:I initiate NC after she's "busy" two and a half times
Week before last Fri: She texts me out of nowhere, I talked to her a bit
Week before yesterday: She texts me out of nowhere, I talked for a bit then stopped.
Nothing since then. I realize now that I didn't do NC correctly. Shouldn't have responded to her texts, but oh well. Anyway, it's been about 8 days since I've talked to her at all. I'm planning on calling her today to set something up for this 4 day weekend.

 

[sageproduct]

Late Night Call

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date). I had NC'd her after she said "busy" 2 and a half times. Haven't talked since last Monday when she texted me out of nowhere and we texted for an hour and half, then I stopped replying suddenly.

Well today was my planned day to call her.

9:15, i'm driving home from working out and decide to call this other girl from another school to talk and "warm up" and not be so nervous that I'm calling a girl on the phone. We talk and have a pretty good convo. She was easy to talk to, we talked for 11 minutes and I ended it and told her I'd see her this weekend (which I probably will).

Get home later, then of course I start procrastinating calling Mel K...My IL's a tad too high in her, I was teetering back and forth and I REALLY did not want to call...

Until 10:15. I FINALLY just shut my mind the fwck up and let my penis guide me. It's GOTTA be the fact that i haven't jerked off in 8 days that really made the difference.

Turned out to be an 8 and half minute call. She answered with a REALLY tired sounding voice, and I greeted her enthusiastically. "sageproduct..." she answered. I asked if she was sleeping, and she said yes. Damn, but oh well. I made sure NOT to apologize lol.

Talked about random stuff, mainly school stuff and joked a little about a teacher. I teased her a bit but didn't manage to make anything sexual or flirt at all. Ended up asking her a lot of questions. The biggest thing I was afraid of was that if I stayed silent a little bit that she was gonna be silent too and not say anything, but she actually told me about something new each time there was a slight pause. She laughed at all my stupid stuff and sounded like she wanted to keep talking.

When I decided enough was enough, I told her she should go to sleep because she needs it. Then I said "Well I just wanted to know that you're hangin out with me this weekend." and said nothing, waiting for her to respond. She mumbled something, then asked me what period I have a certain class next semester. Not good? idk. We have it different periods. I didn't push for a specific day (I should have i think...) and instead said I'd "talk to her soon" and said goodnight.

Not sure how it went. This girl's shy and shows big-time IOI's in some ways (laughing at everything i say, kinoed me back on our date) but shows IOD's in other ways (doesn't ask me questions about myself, doesn't really initiate anything/kind of making me chase?)

Since she's never been involved with a guy, maybe she has serious misconceptions of what dating's like (as do i....). But from what I gather she seems to want the guy to "orchestrate" everything for her, in the sense of how a date goes and stuff like that. For example, when I took her to get ice cream, she told me to choose an order for her. Never made a suggestion of any kind.

 

[Igetit!]

Late Night Call

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date). I had NC'd her after she said "busy" 2 and a half times. Haven't talked since last Monday when she texted me out of nowhere and we texted for an hour and half, then I stopped replying suddenly.

I think you're starting to get it man. That's the good news.


The bad news is that this "Mel K" girl....she may have to be another "mistake" along the way to you learning and getting better with women.

Get home later, then of course I start procrastinating calling Mel K...My IL's a tad too high in her, I was teetering back and forth and I REALLY did not want to call...


Turned out to be an 8 and half minute call. She answered with a REALLY tired sounding voice, and I greeted her enthusiastically. "sageproduct..." she answered. I asked if she was sleeping, and she said yes. Damn, but oh well. I made sure NOT to apologize lol.

Ha,ha,not apologizing was GOOD.

Talked about random stuff, mainly school stuff and joked a little about a teacher. I teased her a bit but didn't manage to make anything sexual or flirt at all. Ended up asking her a lot of questions.

Now this is BAD. I HATE to say this,but it"d been better for you not to call her at all than to call her and ramble on about nothing.


You think she's not really that interested,don't you? I'd have to agree.


She's not showing a sexual interest in you because YOU are not showing YOUR INTEREST in her.



You're letting your fear of rejection MAKE YOU GET REJECTED.

You just gotta be strong,be a man,and come out there with it.




It's NOT like you think. It's not the girl's that's causing you problems,it's your OWN fear.



Why did you call "Mel K"? Because you wanted to take her out again,right?

Well if you wanted to date her,then why did you talk "random stuff"?



If I want to date a girl,you know what I talk about with her? I talk about me and her dating.




How was Mel K suipposed to know you wanted to take her out again if you spent the whole time talking to her about random topics and making fun of teachers? Not to mention the fact that you didn't say anything romantic or sexual.

The biggest thing I was afraid of was that if I stayed silent a little bit that she was gonna be silent too and not say anything, but she actually told me about something new each time there was a slight pause. She laughed at all my stupid stuff and sounded like she wanted to keep talking.

None of this matters. Her laughing amd wanting to continue talking to you means absolutely NOTHING.

There's a difference between a girl wanting to continue speaking to you because she's attracted to you,and her wanting to keep talking to you because she likes talking gossip.

When I decided enough was enough, I told her she should go to sleep because she needs it. Then I said "Well I just wanted to know that you're hangin out with me this weekend." and said nothing, waiting for her to respond. She mumbled something, then asked me what period I have a certain class next semester. Not good?

"Not good" is right. Let me asked you this...

Why would she want to go out with you? What for?

Remember,a "date" is supposed to be romantic/sexual,right? Well you just said you spend that whole conversation with her NOT FLIRTING,NOT BEING ROMANTIC OR SEXUAL.

So what would be the point?



Your fear is killing you man. A girl wants a man who's confident being romantic towards her. You're scared to be sexual,but in order to be successful with girls,you HAVE TO BE.


And you have to do it FIRST. The girl isn't going to do it because she doesn't want to be looked at as a slvt.

Not sure how it went. This girl's shy and shows big-time IOI's in some ways (laughing at everything i say, kinoed me back on our date) but shows IOD's in other ways (doesn't ask me questions about myself, doesn't really initiate anything/kind of making me chase?)

Her behavior is all NORMAL.


Her laughing at what you say doesn't mean anything. Yeah,laughing can be an IOI,but she can also be laughing simply because you said something funny.

The two ARE NOT the same.

Since she's never been involved with a guy, maybe she has serious misconceptions of what dating's like (as do i....).

No she doesn't. Look man,if you want to get this,if you want to better understand girls AS QUICK AS POSSIBLE,you need to take responsibility for what goes down between you and a girl.

This situation between you and Mel seems to be going downhill...and YOU ARE THE ONE responsible for this,and it's YOUR FEAR that's wrecking this for BOTH OF YOU.


Don't say it's because of "misconseptions" from her. It's because of YOUR fear.

But from what I gather she seems to want the guy to "orchestrate" everything for her, in the sense of how a date goes and stuff like that. For example, when I took her to get ice cream, she told me to choose an order for her. Never made a suggestion of any kind.

FREAKIN' BINGO DUDE.


This is EXACTLY right. She's doing her part,it's YOU who's failing.


You say she seems to want you to orchestrate everything.

THAT'S RIGHT DUDE. She's trying to allow you to be the MAN.


You're supposed to lead
You're supposed to guide
You're supposed to be in control


YOU went to her. YOU asked her out. So what do you think,you go to her,ask her out,then expect her to make all the decisions and plans?


You're the one who started all this,so you should lead it.



It's YOU man. You can fix it and turn it around,but realize it's YOUR JOB to lead,NOT THE GIRL'S.



You just need to let go of your fear because if you don't it'll cripple EVERY INTERACTION you have with a girl.

 

[sageproduct]

Saturday, January 16, 2010

What has the world come to when my FR's are about texting/phone convos...

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date)
So after calling her Tuesday night and telling her she was hanging out with me, I got a text from her tonight out of nowhere. The way she worded it made it sound like she was expecting me to contact her a few days ago? Idk, but I was driving n sh1t so I didn't respond til 2 hours later. Short convo, this was basically it:

Me: haha you just butt dialed me
Her: Haha im pretty sure i didnt. but mkay. im babysittin and they look down on me if i have my phone outt
Me: Ohhh its ok that your butt wanted to talk to me
Her: Hmm your quite funny
Me: I knoww
Her: Yepp. hmm. i thought youd be happy to know i managed to [blah blah blah, fwck up a buncha things while babysitting]. Im impressive
Me: Hahaha it's alright, I guess you're kinda good at other things (sexual? a little? i hoped so)

She didn't respond to the last one. I'm busy tomorrow so I'm planning on setting something up with her Monday. Tomorrow, I want to call her or text her and say these exact words: "I want to see you tomorrow". Idk why but it was something I thought of in the car. "hanging out" sounds too friendly, "go out" is too official of a term where i'm from...

Kendra M
She goes to a school half an hour away where I have some really good friends that I've been hanging out with a lot lately. Over the last few weeks, she fb wall'd me about hanging out n stuff so I got her number. She's initiated some texting w/me n stuff so she's at least some level of interested (but possibly friendly) but on Tuesday, lol I actually called her to talk for a while to "warm up" for calling Mel K (yeah ridiculous). We actually had a really good 11 minute convo, and today I was hangin with these people from her school and they were all saying "sageproduct i heard you called Kendra M" and one of them texted me on Friday "sageproduct and Kendra M sitting on a tree..." to which I replied "ooooo".

Will probably hang with her tomorrow cuz i'm gonna be in that area.

They say hindsight is 20/20

For anyone who remembers Binny K, my first kiss back in november, has been on my mind a couple times lately, not in any emotional way, but I keep thinking about how I fwcked up with her.

To eaglez, thanks for shedding so much light on the situation and I really should have followed your advice closer. I really had no idea what any relationship is like, as I was already considering one with her after just a kiss. Plus, I wasn't very interested in her but you told me I should get as much sexual practice with her as I could. I really really really should have done that, as well as just being more sexually aggressive with her in general.

 

[sageproduct]

Sunday, January 17, 2010

Stuck at home again, all I got is texting convos...fwck me

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date)
wtf?
(6pm) Me: I want to see you tomorrow.
(40 min later) Her: Do you enjoy waking me up
Me: With all my heart
Her: Its earyly
Me (thinkin wtf?): Heey we're in the pm right now, not am
Her: Then why is it darkk
Me: Hah I tried to figure you out, but I must say I'm baffled
Her: Ill talk toyou in a few hourss

Weird as hell. I'm 100% sure she wasn't drunk. And I'm almost sure it's BS cuz how the fwck does my text from 6 o'clock wake her up at 640? Unless it was delayed when sending but that doesn't usually happen

(couple hours later) Her: Mkay so tomorrow im busy from 9-3 and then from 530 on so it would have to be between then
Me: Sooo unavailable eh? Hows tuesday
Her: Well I do have like a two hour opening so i wouldnt say unavailable haha. And tuesdays worse blahh

blah blah, i said I had to see if i was doing something, then half an hour later i said i'd be free

Her: 300ishh. i just gotta be back by 5. What do you wanna do
Me: [name of ice rink]. have you been ice skating before?

blah blah blah

Her: im the epitome of graceful.
Me: Haha we'll see.

Then: she said she looked the place up online and it closes at 1. Fwck!!! She suggests next weekend, I say Friday if i'm not going out of town, she says "mkay ill have to see but possibly probably?"

it's weird cuz she has all these aspects of "game" when we're texting. c&f, making herself unavailable. she was much different in person though. this confuses me so much, yet intrigues me and i don't know why...

Kendra M (from school my 2 best friends are from)
Told her I was planning on being in her area tonight but couldn't go. We texted for a little while. She asked me like a thousand questions and said she was in this really cool place so I told her to take some pics for me, which she did and sent them to my phone.

So some interest from her, don't know if it's friendly or more...but she lives half an hour away.

 

[Igetit!]

Sunday, January 17, 2010

Stuck at home again, all I got is texting convos...fwck me

Question Sage:If you can text this girl,then you can call her,right?

Then why didn't you call her instead? You need to get her emotions going.

It's TEN THOUSAND TIMES EASIER to do that either in person,or with a phonecall,than her reading words.


Anyway,here's my take on this thing...

Mel K (ice cream-bowling date)
wtf?
(6pm) Me: I want to see you tomorrow.
(40 min later) Her: Do you enjoy waking me up
Me: With all my heart
Her: Its earyly
Me (thinkin wtf?): Heey we're in the pm right now, not am
Her: Then why is it darkk
Me: Hah I tried to figure you out, but I must say I'm baffled
Her: Ill talk toyou in a few hourss

Weird as hell.

She said you wake her up...at 6 in the evening?

That is weird. The only reasons I can see her saying that is she either was joking with you,or she was out all night the night before and she was sleeping in the daytime.


Anyway,that line you gave her about "I want to see you",you need to lead into it. Don't let it be the first thing you say. Talk for a bit,say something to get her emotions flowing,then tell her you want to see her.

(couple hours later) Her: Mkay so tomorrow im busy from 9-3 and then from 530 on so it would have to be between then
Me: Sooo unavailable eh? Hows tuesday
Her: Well I do have like a two hour opening so i wouldnt say unavailable haha. And tuesdays worse blahh

Alright,Sage...you need to pull back for a second. You probably can't see what's going on here because you're too involved in it,but since I'm on the outside looking in,I can see it.



This "mel K" girl...she's in control here,TOTAL CONTROL.


I hate to be rough on you,but I'd rather you be upset with us here on the forum and learn what to do than to go out and repeatedly fall on your face with girls.



Now listen:Mel K is in control,but in order to get attraction going with her,YOU NEED to take it back.



Look at what's going on here:You ask her out,she gives excuse. You ask her out,she gives you excuse. You ask her out again,she gives more excuses.



STOP.


YOU ARE feeding the AW in her. You're not creating attraction in her,you're unintentionally boosting her ego.


I give you props for having a willingness to try,but at the moment,EVERYTHING YOU'RE DOING is just making things worse.

Her: 300ishh. i just gotta be back by 5. What do you wanna do
Me: [name of ice rink]. have you been ice skating before?



Then: she said she looked the place up online and it closes at 1. Fwck!!! She suggests next weekend, I say Friday if i'm not going out of town, she says "mkay ill have to see but possibly probably?"

Look at this:instead of suggesting you two go somewhere else besides the skating rink,she says possibly/probably next weekend.


Hate to say this,but this girl's interest in you is low,super low,lower than a turtle's stomach.


That's why she's stuck on "maybes,mights,and possiblys",and she'll STAY STUCK THERE unless YOU DO something.


You need to take the frame back. I don't know if you understand what frame control is but I'll give you an example...



Let's say two people start having a conversation. Guy A tells guy B he won $50. Guy B says that's cool,then he tells guy A he just got a new job.



Now whichever topic they continue speaking about will determine who has the stronger frame. If they go on taking about the $50,then guy A has the stronger frame,and guy B falls into it.


If they continue speaking about the new job guy B got,then guy B has the stronger frame,and guy A will fall into it.



Let me point something out to you in your convo with "Mel K"...


You told her you wanted to see her,she asked if you enjoy waking her up.


Well which subject did you two continue speaking about,you seeing her,or her being awaken out of her sleep?


You see what I mean? Granted,her being sleep was bad,but you understand what I'm saying. You need to have the stronger frame.




And even when she did get back in touch with you later on,she still took the frame from you. Instead of talking about you two seeing each other,you got side-tracked into listening to her talk about how busy she was,her work schedule,etc.


The trick to stealing the frame is to listen to what she says,comment on it,then go right back to the subject you originally brought up.



So when she told you she had to do so and so until whatever time,you should have come back at her with something like,"So,what does that have to do with you hanging out with ME?".


You're ok man,at least you are learning,I can see that.

Just start working on the frame a bit more.

 

[needstochange]

So your saying if someone attempts to change the conversation, then they're trying to take control? I'd have to disagree with that. What if Guy B had said "Oh cool. What are you going to spend it on?" then the convo goes on. Would that really make Guy B a "weak framed" person and make Guy A in control, or is Guy B just trying to make interesting conversation happen? I can see the example on sageproduct's interaction with Mel K but it's more difficult in the example you gave.

 

[sageproduct]

You need to take the frame back. I don't know if you understand what frame control is but I'll give you an example...



Let's say two people start having a conversation. Guy A tells guy B he won $50. Guy B says that's cool,then he tells guy A he just got a new job.



Now whichever topic they continue speaking about will determine who has the stronger frame. If they go on taking about the $50,then guy A has the stronger frame,and guy B falls into it.


If they continue speaking about the new job guy B got,then guy B has the stronger frame,and guy A will fall into it.



Let me point something out to you in your convo with "Mel K"...


You told her you wanted to see her,she asked if you enjoy waking her up.


Well which subject did you two continue speaking about,you seeing her,or her being awaken out of her sleep?


You see what I mean? Granted,her being sleep was bad,but you understand what I'm saying. You need to have the stronger frame.




And even when she did get back in touch with you later on,she still took the frame from you. Instead of talking about you two seeing each other,you got side-tracked into listening to her talk about how busy she was,her work schedule,etc.


The trick to stealing the frame is to listen to what she says,comment on it,then go right back to the subject you originally brought up.



So when she told you she had to do so and so until whatever time,you should have come back at her with something like,"So,what does that have to do with you hanging out with ME?".


You're ok man,at least you are learning,I can see that.

Just start working on the frame a bit more.

This makes so much sense! I have never thought about frame control before. I've always been focused on "speaking of the other person's interests" in a conversation. Clearly though, the frame control you are talking about is huge, and I'm sure it's FAR from being mutually exclusive with "speaking about the other's interests".

Just wanna say too that every single post you've made for me has helped me grow. They sink into my mind and make more sense to me every day. Thank you for being harsh too, I have been needing it.

Final thoughts on Mel K-I guess if I were really desperate I could call her tomorrow or something to try to stir something up, but I don't see much of a point anymore. Her interest is low, she's not even that attractive, she's a year younger, and I realize now that I was only infatuated with her because of how she made me feel about myself on our 'date'. Weak. Next. Not definitively, I will for sure NC her for a while and only try again if I really think it's worth it. Which it probably won't be.

Which brings me to...


Much Better.

Kendra M (girl from my best friend's school)
Texting convo again. Which, I just realized, should almost NEVER happen again, it should just be calling. I initiated the texting convo before I read Igetit's last post here.

Talked a little bit about random stuff, same as before she was always asking me a lot of questions and keeping the convo going. Then I mentioned laser tag (as in had she ever done it before), then told her to go with me tonight. She said her mom wouldn't let her drive all the way there cuz she has school tomorrow (i don't).

At this point Mel K's signs of low interest were still on my mind so I just replied "no worries". Here's where it was different though, this girl then suggested an alternative (getting food in her town) instead of pushing the date back like Mel K did. I declined for a few reasons though.
1. didn't want to give away power
2. i actually don't feel like driving that much tonight haha
3. i can foresee a "getting food" date as REALLY boring for the first time
So I made up some excuse. Then she still tried to get me to go by kinda going around what I told her but I denied it with some vague humor.

I thought it was cute that she was still trying to get me to go. Literally I thought "Fwck Mel K" and I asked Kendra M if she had plans on Friday yet. She replied "nope!", to which I said, "Well NOW you do. Ice skating with sageproduct (lucky you!!!)" she responded, "ahahahaa yay! I'm excited!!"

Now we're just discussing a little bit about which rink n stuff.

Tonight
Just realized that although it's been nice for me to know that I'd rather stay at home than hang out with people who I don't have fun with, I'm sick of staying at home. So I'm gonna call some people I haven't seen in a while and set something up, which I haven't done in a while. Time to get the fwck out of this house.

 

[dj_china]

here's how I wouldh ave played Mel K

1) call, not text
its much easier, and you cut out the fluff. honestly, I get tired of texting a lot -- and I think girls probably get sick of it too if they get texted by a lot of guys. setting up a date by phone -- 5 minutes, done.

buuut based on the txt game you played, I think better would have been:
[qute]Originally Posted by sageproduct
(couple hours later) Her: Mkay so tomorrow im busy from 9-3 and then from 530 on so it would have to be between then
Me: Sooo unavailable eh? Hows tuesday
Her: Well I do have like a two hour opening so i wouldnt say unavailable haha. And tuesdays worse blahh[/quote]

her: mkay so tomorrow im busy from 9-3 and then from 530 on so it would have to be between then
sageproduct: [no reply]

and then call her on friday to hang out

she was controlling your frame by giving you such a narrow window. and by agreeing to that, you're giving her all the power
and plus, you don't want to hang with her for just two hours -- if the 530 thing is really important, she will be continually checking her watch. you dont want that during your date.

during a date you want to leave it open ended -- if its good, keep going and get as far as you can. if you dont think its going anywhere, end the date on a high note -- do it before she ends it. say something like "ah i forgot i have to get to a conference call for this business, or school club"

or have a friend "call you" and remind you that you have to go somewhere

or just say you're tired and need to go back and do some work. but say it in a way that she won't believe you're just "going to do work." it will build mystery for you and make you seem less available

good luck

 

[SPEAK]

hey sage they locked our masturbation competition thread for some obscure reason. Just keep up the no whackin for a while, PM tell me how it goes or something haha.

 

[sageproduct]

Haha whatever we can just use that long assssss thread in the archive section.

Wednesday, January 20, 2010
First day of second semester, new classes

Overview of today: Have some new people in my classes, just tried to be outgoing and social. Made sure to communicate confidence and comfort with my body language by taking up lots of space. With new schedules, I had a good excuse to leave my sh1tty lunch table!! The one I sat at today wasn't really good but maybe I'll sit with some more interesting people tomorrow.

Gonna name 3 new girls

Gina L
Past one-itis. Met her spring of last year in a class we had together, she was (in retrospect) showing some definite IOIs but I was a huge AFC AND I told myself I wasn't really interested in her. Well, I ended up taking her to prom 2 months later and started liking her, by which of course I was deep in the friendzone. We did get really close, had all these inside jokes and laughed at everything. But I didn't know sh1t. She was gone all summer, I was missing her the whole time, then she came back and announced she was "engaged" with some 24 year old (yeah wtf?!?!) so I immediately cut all contact with her.

I've seen her around a few times this year and she just gives me a weird look usually but I act like nothing's wrong. People told me she was confused on why I was "treating her so bad" since the summer. She only made an effort once to see me, through facebook.

Well, I now have 2 classes with her. Basically, I want 2 things out of her
1. MAYBE I have a shot at hookin up w/her or somethin since I've changed so much. Don't really care that much, just if I can I will
2. Turn her into my DHV b1tch. A lot of people are in those classes I have with her, and I'm pretty sure I can get her to show obvious interest toward me (at least as a friend) cuz she really liked me before.

Fiona M-a new target
Never met her before. New in one of my classes and sits to the right and infront one. I didn't even notice her until halfway through class, but I heard she's pretty good-looking. The kid who sits behind her (directly to my right) is a really cool guy who I'm on good terms with. Missed a good chance to jump in on a convo with her when he asked her a question.

Erica N-another new target
This b1tch is HOT. Also new in one of my classes, she's a definite 9 or 10. Coincidentally, she also sits to the right and in front of me, and behind her (to my right) is a guy I'm friends with who's a stud DE and has pretty high value (but a long distance LTR).

Also happens to be the younger sister of the hot, popular girl who asked for my number at that volunteering thing. Anyway, I talked to her for a little bit and got some good eye contact but for some reason I turned my attention to my friend sitting behind her. I seem to do this too much when I'm talking to a girl, get distracted by a friend.

Definitely gonna try to game this girl and FAST. After Eileen S last semester, I've learned that you gotta make your move as SOON as possible with girls in your classes, otherwise they get used to you as the "guy in one of my classes".

Missed an opportunity for kino. She was wearing a Northface so I could have pretended to brush some hair off her back like I do with my other female friend a lot but I'm pretty sure the guy sitting next to me would have said something.

I haven't jacked it since Saturday, I was pretty horny today...literally all I thought of during class was how hard I want to fwck this b1tch. Well time to see what I can do, whatever happens happens.

EDIT: DAMMIT! Just checked FB and she's had a bf of at least a year, possibly even 2 years. So many fwcking girls at my school are in LTRs. Of course though, I just gotta game like there's nothing in the way.

Kendra M (goes to school half an hour away, has shown good interest)
I have an ice skating date with her on Friday, gonna call her tonight to talk about which rink and stuff.

My Hopeless AFC Friend
He's the only guy in the gay group I used to hang out with that I remotely like now. Basically he's going for this girl who's really popular and CONSIDERED hot who just broke up with her bf of like 1 or 2 years. My friend's been talking to her in classes for about a year now, maybe more.

I feel bad for him cuz based on what he's told me he's been a complete AFC with her and has dug a deep, comfy hole in the friendzone for himself. He's already done favors for her like giving answers on a test. He keeps telling me how nervous he is, how he wants to hang out with her in a group first before he's "ready" to hang with her alone (i used to think the same), how he's gonna become good friends with her first and then ask her out. He texts her all the time and says she "sounds like she really wants to" when she says she's busy.

Sounded like pretty standard friend zone stuff to me...I'm trying to help him here and there by convincing him to hang out with her alone, warning him of the friend zone, etc. but I haven't given as much advice as I could because as far as he knows, I haven't been successful with girls yet. I feel bad for him, but not enough to tell him to come to this site cuz I know he's just gonna make fun of me for it. fwcking d-bag.

 

[sageproduct]

A Quick Little Realization

ALWAYS be interested in more than just one girl. As soon as you're focused on one, then you become dependent on the results and it fwcks you up. This is how I learned it.

Just Desserts-well, just got a text out of the blue from Mel K, just saying that she's sorry and that she won't be able to go Friday. NOW since I'm not focused on her (I have plans with Kendra M) on Friday, it's clear as day to me that Mel K was just uninterested. And it doesn't matter to me anymore. When I was focused on her, my attitude was "well I won't give up". Well, with girls it just doesn't work that way.

Btw, Kendra M has been texting me quite a bit-seems like she's pretty interested and excited for our date friday. Also asked me to pick her up friday, it's not AFC that I agreed because then it's just making it more date-like right?

 

[Igetit!]

A Quick Little Realization

ALWAYS be interested in more than just one girl. As soon as you're focused on one, then you become dependent on the results and it fwcks you up. This is how I learned it.

This is true.

It's best to pursue more than one girl at a time. That way you'll alway have more options,and you don't have to worry about giving to much time or attention to any one girl in particular.

Just Desserts-well, just got a text out of the blue from Mel K, just saying that she's sorry and that she won't be able to go Friday.

I doubt that she "can't" go,she probably just has something else she's interested in that she wants to do,which only goes back to your first point of pursuing more than one girl.



"Mel K" said she couldn't go,but since you had other interests besides her,you just went right on to the next girl not missing a beat.

NOW since I'm not focused on her (I have plans with Kendra M) on Friday, it's clear as day to me that Mel K was just uninterested.

Yeah,I agree. I know that women can be confusing sometimes,but some things are just as simple as they appear.

If a girl wants to see you,then SHE WILL SEE YOU. I mean it's just that simple. It really is.


If you're really over this "Mel K" girl and decide to no longer pursue her,you might as well know that when she starts to notice you no longer calling or texting her,then she'll probably start calling you or texting you all of the sudden,BUT....don't be fooled.


It's not because she all of the sudden likes you or wants to date you,it's because she misses the all attention of you calling and texting her.




So be "polite" when (or if) you respond. POLITE,NOT INTERESTED.
And keep all texts and phonecalls short.



If you do this,there's a good chance that SHE WILL TRY to ask you out.
This is going to sound nuts,but DON'T AGREE TO IT.


I don't want to go all into it because I've typed out this same info over and over again for what seems like a thousand times.


There's no guarantee that she will do this,but in case she does,be ready.
You can check out this info in my signature,it covers what to do if she were to suddenly start calling/texting you when you back off.

Also asked me to pick her up friday, it's not AFC that I agreed because then it's just making it more date-like right?

Nope,it's not AFC at all. It's like you said about your other date where you thought the girl wanted you to "orchestrate" everything.


It's good,VERY GOOD that she wants you to pick her up. She's bascially putting herself in your hands.



JUST MAKE SURE that you flirting and teasing has some sexualness to it. Not too much,but just throw some in every now and then.



Oh,and one more thing...


Dude,I freakin' LOVE that thing you said about how you needed to show your interest to some new girl as soon as possible because if you didn't she'd see you as just "a guy in her class".


That's freakin' bang on.


If you understand that what you said there,you should never EVER have to fall into the friendzone again.