RIP victims of the tsunami

[check_mate_kid_uk]

CableLight, you say that nothing of this scale will ever happen to the USA, because of the warning systems. Well did you not read what i wrote earlier? Yellowstone is a super volcanoe due to errupt. The creator is already expanding. The initial blast will kill every one with in 600 miles and the erruption will bring down the whole contanant down to the boarderline of extinction, throwing the whole world in to a sevreal year long nuclear winter. There worls population will plumpt from 6 billion to no more then maybe a few million, is this the kind of natrual selection you want?

 

[diablo]

Originally posted by check_mate_kid_uk
Yellowstone is a super volcanoe due to errupt. The creator is already expanding. The initial blast will kill every one with in 600 miles and the erruption will bring down the whole contanant down to the boarderline of extinction, throwing the whole world in to a sevreal year long nuclear winter. There worls population will plumpt from 6 billion to no more then maybe a few million

Why, why, why don't you bother checking what you say before you say it?
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/faqs4.html#14


I mean, of course you're "right" if you read wacko conspiracy-theory websites such as this:
http://armageddononline.tripod.com/volcano.htm

However, sites such as these were put together by men in Smurfs long johns wearing tin foil hats on their head. Just remember: Consider the source.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by diablo
Why, why, why don't you bother checking what you say before you say it?
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/faqs4.html#14


I mean, of course you're "right" if you read wacko conspiracy-theory websites such as this:
http://armageddononline.tripod.com/volcano.htm

However, sites such as these were put together by men in Smurfs long johns wearing tin foil hats on their head. Just remember: Consider the source.

if its such crap thats not true why have the BBC run documentrs about it, its not really a case of will it happen, its a case of when will it happen, sure probably not with in our lift time but could well be with in the next few hundred years, and there is still nothing to say it will not happen in 50 years time.

 

[CableLight]

Originally posted by check_mate_kid_uk
CableLight, you say that nothing of this scale will ever happen to the USA, because of the warning systems.

Originally posted by Phrozen

Thirdly, the U.S. in its current form will never face such devastation as we have seen from this event. There would be many deaths, but it would not be on the same level. The U.S. would have better warning than almost any other country if any tsunami threatening event were to occur.

Check who you're quoting, dipsh!t.

He said it, I said I wasn't going to repeat things he said which includes the fact that I have not once mentioned our "warning systems." Why the hell would you not just reply to him about it anyway if you were confused at all on who's saying what?

<EDIT> And again, WTF? Why would you even bring up the Yellowstone thing given what I've been saying this whole time about humanity?

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

cabelight i do agree that the earth is over populated and there is to much pollution, that is why i am all for what china is doing, only allowing each family to have 1 child, But i do not agree that we should let these people die in asia because apart from anything that will not make a diffrence to the earth its only a small proportion.

Theres another thing, these thrid world countrys barly polute, it is USA with the 4x4 cars (and i can see the UK is going down the route) that polute so heavily, and all our heavy industry, these countrys in asia hardly create pollution they are not the problem, we are.

 

[jbbrain]

Originally posted by CableLight
Guys...Let me try to rephrase what I've been trying to explain...

Just because these people weren't desert madmen plotting the downfall of our nation at every convenient break between prayer sessions, doesn't mean that they're simply blinked out of existance without anyone noticing or it effecting anything.

At first this might sound controversial to what I've said previously, but that statement is simply to illustrate that, if anything, it's probably beneficial to itself anytime the world takes out the trash. Sorry, that was insensitive.

But seriously - Enough is enough - Do people not realize that not all human life is precious? If a quarter of a million people in a 3rd world country get killed, then big deal. The last idea on someone's mind should be "Let's all get together and put that cess-pool of human existance back together so they can once again live in disease, poverty, malnutrition and other such boons of mankind."

Are u kidding me?

Regardless if their "GDP" is low, many of these south asian residents were not poor in "spirit", and thats what really counts. Most of them weren't living lives of Sierra Leonans (or other desperate african nations) where life and hope both entail misearble existences.

Dude, most of these families who got struck by this tragedy were fisherman and/or farmers who lived a life of subsistence. They were poor in monetary terms, but they each had a job or duty that helped themselves, their families and their communities.

The fact that you somehow idealize the US (meaning if theyre not living like us, in the land of plentiful, they're miserable...) quality of life and standard of living in relationship to these countries is pretty pathetic, yet typical for a westerner.

The point is, let them have their own choice if they choose to live or not. It shouldnt be anybody else's but theirs, and sadly, these poor people were relived of that choice on that fateful sunday.

IT IS A HORRIBLE DISASTER. Lives, dreams and hopes for the future (did u notice how many children died?) were forever shattered, and that can never be justified. Your little argument about evening out the world in terms of population and food availability is moot. 250000 deaths (which i believe the final toll will be) will not have any dramatic effect on this balance..it's just like a grain of sand on the big beach. What would help the population problem? This is another question altogether, but id love to discuss it with you if you'd like.

The point is, third world people have lived with poverty, malnuitrition and disease all of their lives. Everyday around the world, people (in varying degrees) struggle just to stay afloat (no oun intended). The over population problem you suggested is often curbed by 'natural' everyday occurences, the strong outlive the weak, and people just live with it, going through the survival motions day by day.

This is not everyday. This will forever be known as a force that dealt a death blow to the community, the human body as well as the human spirit.

 

[dietzcoi]

I am not saying its "OK" that so many people died

I am saying, that this has happened in the past , will happen again, and is not a big deal when you look at the big picture...

THe Earth has 6,000,000,000 people on it.
150,000 died in this. You do the math. This is nothing, NOTHING, yet the world media and associated hand-wringers are making it to be armageddon.

I call Bullsh1t.

Yes this is a tragedy but it is also a tragedy when one person is hit by a car.

SO what... life goes on. Humanity goes on. The WOrld goes on.

I do not know what the point is of hand-wringing.

Do not be ruled by emotion.. this is what causes evil in the world, and BTW this is what causes AFCs to act as they do.

THINK!

Dietzcoi

 

[jbbrain]

Originally posted by dietzcoi
I am not saying its "OK" that so many people died

I am saying, that this has happened in the past , will happen again, and is not a big deal when you look at the big picture...

THe Earth has 6,000,000,000 people on it.
150,000 died in this. You do the math. This is nothing, NOTHING, yet the world media and associated hand-wringers are making it to be armageddon.

I call Bullsh1t.

Yes this is a tragedy but it is also a tragedy when one person is hit by a car.

SO what... life goes on. Humanity goes on. The WOrld goes on.

I do not know what the point is of hand-wringing.

Do not be ruled by emotion.. this is what causes evil in the world, and BTW this is what causes AFCs to act as they do.

THINK!

Dietzcoi

Oh man, Im calling bull**** on this response.

Know what? Like photo pointed out, I'm sure everyhting would be a little different if somebody you loved was caught in the trgaedy...You talk about how life goes on, yada yada bullshyt!

Give me a fvcking break! Yeah, your life will go on. Hell, my life will go on. But what about for the millions who have lost friends and family, those who will continue to contract disease and eventually perish?

Life doesnt just "go on" for them, dude. Yeah, you're all cozy sitting by the fire reading a newspaper or taking a bubblebath in germany, reminiscing how your stupid bytch ex wife "screwed you over" (and this goes for everyone a little too 'content' with this whole situation wherever you are) perpetuating that ignorance you uphold that everything in the world is 'alright'..

Hmmm, just as long as your 5000 miles away right?

I can't believe people are even arguing this? Are you all retards?
And more importantly..what are YOU doing to help this situation?

If you're not a citizen in the community of "life" and act as such, then I suggest you back the fvck down and please shut the fvck up.

Ohhh, and the fact that even tried to parrallel this disaster to something as banal as AFCness is quite disturbing. The emotion that has transpired because of these dire circumstances is what will save south asia and eventually the human race, not destroy it you fool.

 

[CableLight]

Jesus Christ I can't believe I get to repeat myself again.

Originally posted by CableLight

Yet, you're not considering the fact that the more and more people who remain alive on this rock are cutting down the amount of time this place is going to be habitable, even just a little bit at a time. Will we notice the change? Probably not in our lifetimes, but since you pro-Humanity guys keep playing the "help everyone" card you don't take into account the creatures (humans, animals, etc) in the future who will, and all the potential life forms in the future who wont be alive because the place will be too screwed to support life (human, animal, etc). Who's the nazi now?

There - The main difference between you morons and me. At least I can admit that mankind will/is fvcking this planet up and about everything else on it, therefore losing however-many-people isn't always such a bad thing. I say "isn't always" simply because a Nuke will sure clear out some people, but it's not gonna benefit the environment. Ironically, the Nuke is another man-made item (just like who said something about our fuel-chugging cars spewing pollution is also a man-made thing).

The folly of man is thinking we're the only thing that matters. Quote me on this if you want, but that is what will ultimately be not only our downfall, but the downfall of everything around us.

This leads up to what I refer to as the "Astronaught (sp?) Theory" - The theory that, given the chance, it's possbile for a person to be out in space, look back on the Earth, see how bad things are, and not come back down due to the serenity and [so far] undestroyed peace of the universe. Death in a tranquil place is better than life in a chaotic one.

So go ahead - You guys can keep spitting out your tripe about how people are a benefit to the rest of the world and losing them is a travesty. You can say it all you want, but you're wrong.

<EDIT> Also, incase someone wants to say "Oh, the Tsunami ruined a bunch of land" - Yeah. I guess there weren't natural disasters before man got here or everything would be ruined, huh?

 

[CableLight]

Photo...You just don't get it, do you? I'm sorry to have to keep jack-hammering this into your opaque skull, but it's for your own benefit.

Your profile thing doesn't say where you live, so I'll just give some examples. You don't need to look at L.A., New York, London, or any of those "big" places. Hell, look pretty much everywhere and tell me what you see.

You know, you can call me a hippy for bringing this up and I really wont care in the slightest, but this is the truth: Look back and imagine for yourself how many species have been driven to extinction, how many forests have been destroyed, how many power plants have gone up, how many tons of pollution are put into the world every day, how many creatures have lost their natural habitat, how many potential cures for the seemingly incurable disease have been lost in now-extinct plants, how many country sides have been paved over, how many other humans have been killed for the will of other humans. What is this all for? The prosperity of one species at the cost of hundreds, thousands, maybe/potentially millions?

You have to understand how much damage has been done to this world in the name of human progress. You have to understand how many years we've potentially taken away from this planets existance in our names. You have to understand how many different things we've taken away the right to live for our own. This is my arguement.

Despite what you might think, I'm not a very militant person. This is what it comes down to - You know, I can sit here and argue with the best of them, but eventually it comes time to simply just point out the facts of life and say, "Hey, this isn't fiction now."

To keep this in perspective, I didn't drop the tital wave on those people, nature did. Nature didn't drive many of the things into extintion/endagerment like we did. The horrible truth about mankind as a whole is that it lacks responsibility for things other than itself (and sometimes not even itself but one person).

There was a reason my first sentence of my first post was the way it was - I'm not wishing death upon anyone. I'm simply saying that when nature finally gets us back for what we've done to it, that we shouldn't be so surprised. There is no war against nature - nature always wins despite how much we might try to deform it.

So, do I have respect for these people that died? Not a whole lot. I personally don't think anyone deserves automatic respect like that. Sympathy? Maybe a little because I've lost a few family members (including an uncle that pulled a Kurt Cobain on himself). But ultimately - truly ultimately - The fewer members of mankind on this planet, the better for everything else. The trick is to respecting everything else.

 

[I-am-someone]

Photo, just give up. Let him think whatever he wants to think, he's obviously not about to change his crooked way of thinking.

CableLight, your arguments are random, scattered all over the place and often contradict eachother. Even if you did have a point to make, your posts have been so chaotic nobody is going to take the time to figure out exactly what strange corner of your disturbed mind you are currently exploring. I'm not saying you are wrong in your arguements. I can just tell you, one day you are going to hit a very hard wall in your mental development, and you won't know how to get past it.


We all have our own opinion on this situation, let's not start forcing our opinions down the throat of others if they don't want it (even though they really need it).

 

[jonny football hero]

Wow, this is boring now.

Whatever is going to happen to the earth will happen, live with it. There is nothing you can do, so get over it. This turned from a message of rememberance, which i appreciate as someone I knew was lost, into a sh!t slinging contest.

if its such crap thats not true why have the BBC run documentrs about it,

The more I read your posts Check_mate, the more I see you as an Idiot, The BBC is always running documentries (sp) about "immenent disastors (sp)", you know how many have happened? 0. Are you worried about the sun supernovaing in 5.5 billion years?

In my opinion, this thread needs to be closed. WAY off topic.

 

[OzyBoy]

Thats ****ing terrible about what has happened i saw a bit of the tsunami as it was happening it looked pretty scary. What a tragedy.

 

[Phrozen]

Originally posted by CableLight
Check_Mate - Yes. I wouldn't go so far as calling this natural selection because a lot of people were killed in some way by man-made structures. Rather, I'd call this maybe a form of nature's poetic justice.

Photo - Yes, I'm a nazi. Hilter for life, baby.

I don't need to repeat what Phrozen said so let me just wrap something up - My definition of what we should do is ideal because not enough people can handle the idea that not all human life is precious.

Don't even mention my name, because some of the things you have posted in this thread make me ashamed to even share the same genus and species as you.

An individual human life may not be precious to you, but there is something severely wrong when one can consider it a good thing to lose so many. Compassion is one of the only good qualities humanity has to offer, without it there is little point to continue our existence.

In addition, the culture of the people native to these areas could easily be sustained for a much longer time then the culture of which most of us participate. Besides, if we're still stranded on this rock by the time this planet runs out of resources then humanity will simply cease to exist. Surely, this is an idea you find acceptable since you put no value in life itself.

 

[CableLight]

I like this...I like how I'll mention something, then have to touch on what someone else has said, then say something else in addition to it, then have this whole set of arguements go on for a few days and have people call it "random."

You start with a small topic, and expand on it covering the thing as a whole. But never-the-less, trying to justify something in this forum is like running a marathon, uphill, chased by rabid dogs.

And Phrozen - I know having a screen name on the internet must be a pretty sacred and divine privilege - and trust me, I'm sorry if I took something away from it's glory by using it in vain.

Compassion? Compassion for what? Ourselves? Hey, guess that's all that matters, right?

And - If we're still standing here by the time life on this planet ceases, it'll probably be because we were the ones that ultimately caused it. Don't think so? Too bad, because my hypothesis is equally possible as any other, if not slightly more accurate due to what we've already done to the world.

You guys must have absolutely no compassion or respect for anything that isn't you - and by "you" I mean a human. You guys must be the type that can look out at a big city, imagine the forest that used to be there and say "damn straight, thats the way it should be."

While I'm at it, I like how your guys' best defense to what I've been telling you has been that I'm a madman of some sorts. I'm waiting for you to actually disprove some of this stuff, rather than just start screaming about your own personal views. So go ahead - Tell me that mankind is a great boon upon the world, shedding it's grace to all forms of life (Oh, minus the ones we've already killed off) and how we're truly benefiting the enviroment and every other living species in every way possible by being here.

 

[dietzcoi]

Cablelight, forget trying to convince the hand-wringing, teary eyed among us of anything in relation to this event.

THe media has brainwashed them into believing this is the "worst tragedy ever"

Yes it is bad... I have never stated it wasn't... but don't any of you remember Rwanda...800,000 dead? (a massacre caused no doubt by emotions, not reason, JBBrain, you fool...) How about the earthquake in China in the 70's... 255,000 dead.. of course no western media was allowed in to sensationalize it.

I repeat, this IS a tragedy and we should help, but do not make this out to be a unique event. This has happened and will continue to happen and life will go on.

Stop the crocodile tears please. You will all have forgotten this by the next time something else happens. Who of you remembers or cares about starvation in Ethiopia in 1984?

Dietzcoi

 

[jbbrain]

dietzcoi,

I think you have me mistaken for the tabloids.

I'm not trying to glamouraize this, or compare it to past events where similar numbers of people were affected/died.

They're all horrible.

I was not yet born when tragedy struck the chinese. I was a young blissfully ignorant child when the Hutus and Tutsis were massacring eachother in Africa.

I was far from even being a dream when 6 million jews (and millions of Russians) died at the expense of the Nazis.

All I'm going with is what's happening right now.

We have a situation in which a quarter million ppl have just died. read that again if you have to. Millions more will be forever affected by this disaster.

Don't yiou think you're being a little smug in your overall complacency with this issue?

Relating this to AFCness must be the most pathetic thing I have ever read. And your little tidbit about 'emotion'..what are you really saying?

Cuz it sounds like you're lamenting that all emotion is inherently 'bad'.

Dude, we're human, deal with it. I'm extremely emotional about this tragedy and so are billions of others around the world. This is what is supposed to happen when something horrible happens to others in the community of life.

Are you trying to portray yourself as a robot without emotion? You sure seem to evoke a lot of emotion in yourself when you're whining on and on about how your ex wife screwed you over (spent your money, cheated on you?...ohhh poor you!) and then when something comes along that possibly could serve a useful purpose in terms of putting things into a desperately needed perspective for all us 'fortunate ones', you completely ignore it and denounce it as some meaningless statistic. If you're not losing ANYTHING in regards to this disaster, then why not choose to gain something worthwhile from it. Instead, you choose to ignore.

Get over yourself you dork.

 

[Phrozen]

Originally posted by CableLight
I like this...I like how I'll mention something, then have to touch on what someone else has said, then say something else in addition to it, then have this whole set of arguements go on for a few days and have people call it "random."

You start with a small topic, and expand on it covering the thing as a whole. But never-the-less, trying to justify something in this forum is like running a marathon, uphill, chased by rabid dogs.

And Phrozen - I know having a screen name on the internet must be a pretty sacred and divine privilege - and trust me, I'm sorry if I took something away from it's glory by using it in vain.

Compassion? Compassion for what? Ourselves? Hey, guess that's all that matters, right?

And - If we're still standing here by the time life on this planet ceases, it'll probably be because we were the ones that ultimately caused it. Don't think so? Too bad, because my hypothesis is equally possible as any other, if not slightly more accurate due to what we've already done to the world.

You guys must have absolutely no compassion or respect for anything that isn't you - and by "you" I mean a human. You guys must be the type that can look out at a big city, imagine the forest that used to be there and say "damn straight, thats the way it should be."

While I'm at it, I like how your guys' best defense to what I've been telling you has been that I'm a madman of some sorts. I'm waiting for you to actually disprove some of this stuff, rather than just start screaming about your own personal views. So go ahead - Tell me that mankind is a great boon upon the world, shedding it's grace to all forms of life (Oh, minus the ones we've already killed off) and how we're truly benefiting the enviroment and every other living species in every way possible by being here.

Prove what? The superiority of ones opinion over another?

Can you look at yourself and say that you're a great boon to this planet? Can you look at the culture we live in and say that it is better for this planet then someone else's culture? Especially some of the self sustaining fishing villages along the coast of the Indian ocean?

If life is not precious and worth saving then what is the point of living?

Can you tell me if we are such a bane to this ecosystem why do you not take the noblest of actions and start with yourself? I'm not trying to be mean, I am just trying to understand your logic.

 

[Marcopolo]

Diablo said

Apparently while the earthquake was large in the localized area, it wasn't very big when taking the entire mass of the earth into account.

This is what is called a Megathrust Earthquake(no Beavis and Butthead jokes plaese). It is not an ordinary earthquake. In this earthquake an 800 mile slab of crust was displaced about 30 meters. It is this massive displacement that caused the tsunami. One of the reasons scientists were unsure of the magnitude was that the initial measurement is of the earthquake wave amplitude only, which suggested an 8.0. it was the crust being broken that trust along that 800 miles that caused a moment magnitude of 9.0, about the equivelant of 20,000 megatons of TNT. Because of the lack of initial info it was not believed that a significant tsunami would result.
Aside from a warning system, 1000's of lives could have been saved if the people there had a rudimentary education in tsunamis. I am not suggesting they need to have a doctorate in geophysics, but the signs were there if people knew what to look for. For instance, if you see the tide go out suddenly and unexpectedly, that is a sure sign on an impending tsunami. With the exception of the people in Sumatra, if people knew to run like he** in the other direction than many of them probably could have saved their arses. Good reason to pay attention in your science class!

Thirdly, the U.S. in its current form will never face such devastation as we have seen from this event. There would be many deaths, but it would not be on the same level. The U.S. would have better warning than almost any other country if any tsunami threatening event were to occur. It has a huge network for spreading an alert via TV, radio, internet, phone, etc. All of these potential warning systems are not as available in the part of the so called third world which was affected by this tsunami.

Unfortunatly, an early warning system would be of little help in the event of a 9.0 meagathrust earthquake of the coast of Oregon and Washingon. It would probably be only 5-10 minutes before the first waves started hitting the shoreline-barely time to evacuate, but not enough time to warn, especially if people are ignorant of what is about to hit them. I would estimate the death toll on this coast alone would be anywhere between 10,000-50,000. Some towns, like Ocean Shores in Washington state, are on a sandbar and have about 10,000-15,000 people in the summer. There would be little chance of escape for these people. 1000's more people would die on distant shorelines of 3rd world countries in the Pacific if they do not get the warning in time. I am fairly pessimistic that poeple will learn their lesson not to be so ignorant, but that would help save many lives in future events such as this.
As for Yellowstone, there really isn't enough known about these types of volcanoes to predict for certain what will happen in the future. Geophysicists have never had the oportunity to study one in action. It probably will eventually erupt, but when and how powerful is anyones guess. There have been much more frequent occurences of smaller eruptions at the park as well as the big ones. There is an active magma chamber underneath the park, but it is more likely to be the shifting and not the rising of the magma that is causing the current activity. In the 75 years or so of monitoring the volcano is not enough time to predict future behaviors. If harmonic tremors began to occur and get shallower it is time to more to Australia. For now the earthquakes remain at background levels.

these countrys in asia hardly create pollution they are not the problem, we are.

Obviously you have never been to China

 

[Marcopolo]

There is no "grand strategy" or "nature fightig back" or "balance of natre". These are B.S. human ideas because we give ourselves too mch importance thinking that nature or the earth cares one way or another. The earth will do what is does as it has for billions of years. If living creatures, including humans, happen to be in its way they will get wiped out. Just like evolution, it is an amoral process, there is no "grand design" or "grand scheme". I can assure you the earth doesn't give a hoot about us one way or another.
Because of the amoral nature of nature does not mean that it has to be this way or that there is any "right" associated with it. Because Darwinism is the way it is does not follow that it is the way it should be. This is the mistake the Social Darwinists and ultimately the Nazis made to justify their behavoir.
I believe it is the goal of man to control our destiny, to re-engineer ourselves and bypass the constraints of mortality and evolution. I also believe it is our duty to mitigate and prevent natural disasters and even global geophysical events such as this one. Consciousness is something special and important, and to our knowledge unique in an otherwise cold and "amoral" universe.