RIP victims of the tsunami

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by CableLight
You know, I really do hope everyone's friends and family who might have been over there are alright (let me emphasize that first), but I'm looking at this thing a little differently than most of you.

I don't want to sound like "One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic," but let's do be honest, shall we? The world is a fairly popular place to live, and sometimes she needs a little house cleaning now and then. I look at a bit of population reduction in an extremely populated area as something that simply needed to happen sooner or later. In a way, the world needs something like this to happen (or a world-scale war) to prevent the seeminly/ultimately inevitable problem of over-population. Kinda like when the government issues special licenses to people to hunt a species of animal that gets too abundant. This Tsunami may have been nature's way of sitting in a tree stand with a high-power rifle and lettin' loose.

Disagree if you wish, but this tragedy isn't so tragic.

[/devil's advocate]

belive it or not, on the grand scale of things 150,000 people dieing is not exactly going to have any effect on 'de-populating' earth.

In china you are only allowed 1 child, this is a good idea, as for world war 3, maybe not such a good idea, you remember what enstion said dont you

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

 

[JSH]

Originally posted by check_mate_kid_uk
belive it or not, on the grand scale of things 150,000 people dieing is not exactly going to have any effect on 'de-populating' earth.

In china you are only allowed 1 child, this is a good idea, as for world war 3, maybe not such a good idea, you remember what enstion said dont you

"I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

Lets put it this way, i know Chinese people who now live in England as they were the second child, their parents had to pay for everything for them privately. Private hospitals, private schooling, private housing; how is this fair.

Why is limiting the population below replacement rate a good idea. Here, in the rich west,we need immigration.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by JSH
Lets put it this way, i know Chinese people who now live in England as they were the second child, their parents had to pay for everything for them privately. Private hospitals, private schooling, private housing; how is this fair.

Why is limiting the population below replacement rate a good idea. Here, in the rich west,we need immigration.

you are right we do need imigration for more unskilled labour workers, the problem is all these people on earth are streching its resources and polluting a lot. China is like the fastest growing econemy right now and is there for using up vast amount of resources and polluting hugely, this can not cary on.

 

[CableLight]

Originally posted by check_mate_kid_uk
belive it or not, on the grand scale of things 150,000 people dieing is not exactly going to have any effect on 'de-populating' earth.

Well, like I said then, it's not so tragic.

I'm not saying 150,000 or whatever people dying is going to shift any kind of balance, but it's definitely more beneficial for the world (in terms of human life) for us to lose 150,000 people than to gain 150,000. Like it or not, the fewer people on this planet, the better - for the planet as a whole.

 

[jonny football hero]

Originally posted by CableLight
Well, like I said then, it's not so tragic.

I'm not saying 150,000 or whatever people dying is going to shift any kind of balance, but it's definitely more beneficial for the world (in terms of human life) for us to lose 150,000 people than to gain 150,000. Like it or not, the fewer people on this planet, the better - for the planet as a whole.

Nah. These people have simple lives, they were islanders, how much pollution would they cause? Hunting? nope. Tribal traditions? nope. They didn't eat that much, they are third worlders.

It'd be better if Europe/china/usa was hit by this thing. Then there'd be less pollution. More food. But not simple islanders.

 

[KOSR]

I don't think it's so simple to say that a reduction of the amount of life on earth will be beneficial.

I live in the Netherlands, and we just don't have any kind of natural disasters here. Why do they, coastal areas, deserve to get "thinned" down, and we can multiply and prosper?

So I don't think that constantly "thinning" the population of danger areas will be benefical, while places far from tectonic plates can prosper and multiply without any major natural obstacles.

Not to think about the emotional well being of the family members, their productivity decrease due to family loss etc. So it's not that simple I think.

I never follow the news but this is something else. Idonesian deathtoll alone might exceed 400.000 I just read, crazy.

Things that are much better at stabilizing the world population and sparing the enviroment: birth control, durable farming techniques, clean energy, education etc. etc.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by CableLight
Well, like I said then, it's not so tragic.

I'm not saying 150,000 or whatever people dying is going to shift any kind of balance, but it's definitely more beneficial for the world (in terms of human life) for us to lose 150,000 people than to gain 150,000. Like it or not, the fewer people on this planet, the better - for the planet as a whole.

but think how bad this is for the countries affected. Thailand is a poor country, they relie on tourism for a lot of money and now it is all gone and will probably take 10 years to rebuild there tourist industry which so many depend on.

 

[I-am-someone]

Let's see...
I can remember when the twin towers got hit by two airplanes. There was nothing else on the news than that for weeks and weeks on end, people were afraid and kept on talking about it every day.

Now, let's go to this event. I don't know about the United States, but around here, nobody really cares that much. I haven't heard anybody talk about it, it's on the news every day but they are telling it like it's the least interesting story of the day which does however need to last 15 minutes. It just pisses me off to see that a little 5.000 deaths can be reacted to like it is the end of the world and 150.000 deaths is treated like it's "really crappy" but nothing more than that.

You know, I think, of all people, Americans should be concerned with this a lot more. One day, this same scenario will happen to the west coast of the US as well.
Ever heard of the volcano on LaPalma? If that volcano were to erupt, a tsunami so great that it would make the Asian tsunami look like a little baby would rage across the American continent. Just think about it, the death toll would be in the tens of millions. New York for example would be whiped out in a matter of hours.

Try to realize that this can happen to you as well. Don't stress yourself about each and every death that has come to be, but realize that you could die any moment. Until that moment arrives, live your life to the fullest. However, don't ever forget that you are just as mortal.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

Originally posted by I-am-someone
One day, this same scenario will happen to the west coast of the US as well.
Ever heard of the volcano on LaPalma? If that volcano were to erupt, a tsunami so great that it would make the Asian tsunami look like a little baby would rage across the American continent.

i saw a documentry on this, the wave will travle at 700mph and will be somthing like 1000 feet tall. The thing is that with warning systems in place few people will be killed by this, but it will destroy the whole west coast of the USA and travle up to 5 miles in land.

oh and part of the reason the twin towers was such a big deal was due to the fact it was terrorism, but i do disagree about the fact know 1 makes a big deal of this, infact its the only thing thats been on the news in the uk the whole week. There where 175 people killed in argentina due to a fire in a nightclub and that hardly got a mention because it was all shadowed by the tsunami. All that is on the news is the tsunami, and the sports.

 

[CableLight]

Guys...Let me try to rephrase what I've been trying to explain...

Just because these people weren't desert madmen plotting the downfall of our nation at every convenient break between prayer sessions, doesn't mean that they're simply blinked out of existance without anyone noticing or it effecting anything.

At first this might sound controversial to what I've said previously, but that statement is simply to illustrate that, if anything, it's probably beneficial to itself anytime the world takes out the trash. Sorry, that was insensitive.

But seriously - Enough is enough - Do people not realize that not all human life is precious? If a quarter of a million people in a 3rd world country get killed, then big deal. The last idea on someone's mind should be "Let's all get together and put that cess-pool of human existance back together so they can once again live in disease, poverty, malnutrition and other such boons of mankind."

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

CableLight, we get what you are saying but now you are going over the top saying those peoples lifes are worth nothing. Sure the country is not rich but they are not too bad either sure they do not have many possesions but they still have an ok life. Why do you tihnk we are so rich, it is at there expense, our countrys are getting richer because we are taking advantage of poor countrys for cheap labour etc and it is there for at there expense that we have a lot of money.

think before you say things, there are 5 million homeless and many otheres suffering, maybe next time dont open oyur mouth so quickly.

 

[CableLight]

Huh? I didn't say they were totally meaningless. In fact, the first paragraph of my last post was saying they're not simply blinked out of existance without anyone noticing. Rather, I think too many people had to "notice" this.

I'm advocating that the way the world seems to freak out about how an impovershed (sp?) country getting some people taken down by a natural disaster is fairly unwarrented.

Also, I'm still standing by my claim that not every human life is a precious thing. Given this, I don't think the way a lot of countries (it seems) or people in the world think the correct responce to this is by dropping everything and seeing how fast they can rebuild the world's toilet. That country and those like it are the disasters, not nature.

<EDIT> Also the whole thing about cheap labor (or "slavery" as it was once called) is definately not something I am in favor of.

 

[Levex]

Originally posted by CableLight

I'm advocating that the way the world seems to freak out about how an impovershed (sp?) country getting some people taken down by a natural disaster is fairly unwarrented.

So its not ok to feel bad for people in Asia, but if something like that was to happen to US, the rest of the world should cry over it?

I just dont follow your logic...

 

[CableLight]

Those are your words, friend, not mine.

Let me put this in a light I think a lot of us can relate to. Remember back in 1st grade when you had to do those lame group activities? And there was that one where a kid stands infront of the class and the teacher goes around asking every other kid to say something nice about him. Then there was always that one really lame guy you never wanted to get up infront because you had absolutely nothing positive to say about the kid.

I'd say a lot of these countries are "that kid." They fall down or something and get hurt, and a few people are there on the scene but you're watching from a distance like "Well, whatever...whats for lunch today?" You notice when the guy gets hurt but you really don't feel too terrible about it because he sucked.

And for the record - Because of the blown up image the US has, then yeah, I'd safely say I think more people would be interested in us getting F'd up than some podunk country. Sorry for the metaphors, but it's like if the mayor of a town (the US) has his house burn down - people will notice due to his image alone. But if the guy who keeps rusted out car parts on his lawn, Christmas lights up throughout the year and dates his sister has his house burn down, then it wont turn a lot of heads. Or shouldn't, at least.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

cablelight if theres countrys have nothing to offer us why where there 10's of thousands of tourists in the region.

 

[I-am-someone]

CableLight, shut up.

You obviously don't know how the world works yet. Once you actually figure this out and have something sensible to state about this subject, you can come back here and post. Until then, keep your ignorant comments to yourself.

Take this advice on more things in your life, people will never respect ignorance about a subject. If you don't know anything about something, keep your mouth shut about it. If you have something worth mentioning to tell, express it as good as you can.
If there's a lot of things you don't know, then that's all the more reason to learn about them, isn't it?

 

[CableLight]

Check_mate - Tourism? I'm not comparing scenery and dining options to lifestyles of a lot of people that live there. Even after all this is said and done and the country gets back on the shaky, wooden pegs it refers to as it's feet, what will be the difference? Tell me that - Short of an unpractical and ridiculously impossible aid campaign from the rest of the world to make everyone live comfortably, a lot of these places are still going to fit the "3rd World Country" bill and remain in poverty - people included.

So, should we simply do nothing? Well, our country doesn't know the meaning of that phrase, so I'm guessing no. So yeah, let's all band together and restore a devestated area back to it's original glory of poverty. It's like getting a scar, having it disappear, and cutting yourself back open because it was a cool looking scar.

I-Am-Someone - Right about now would be where I tell you to stop...just please, stop. You're a fool and I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you about it. But wait, since you're a sociological expert and obviously have spent years researching the subject, why don't you take your own advice and post something useful? You're obviously more versed in this subject since you, yourself informed me I am completely wrong - This obviously implies that you have the "correct" perspective on things and therefore are, in some way, more qualified to tell me exactly how far off base I am.

I think it's cute that people still carry the ideal of everyone being equally important and able in this world. They're not, it's a fact, deal with it. That is the cruel reality - Despite how you may want everyone to live harmoniously, happily, and luxeriously, it won't happen. It's a fantasy; always has been, always will be. I am honestly and truly sorry, but that's just how things are and I really wish there was a viable solution. Human beings are dangerous, unpredictable, and a lot of the time selfish. Until they invent some pill that undoes all the bad stuff of mankind and replaces it with rainbows and unicorns, it's not going to change.

Ideals are fun, but they're not reality.

 

[check_mate_kid_uk]

so because thees people live a poor lifestyle, does that mean they should be left homeless and in extreme poverty rather then being helped to get back to their poor lifesyle, im guessing you are very meteralistic, tell me one dam good reason why the amount of money someone has should decided weather they have a right to live or not.

 

[CableLight]

Huh? The right to live? No, I'm not advocating some genocidal thing if thats what you're thinking. Definately no on that.

But, let me understand - You're all for the idea about taking a devestated area and simply restoring it to poverty (almost oxymoronic)? Well, that's fine...Fairly strange to pull out at that level, but there's no sense in venturing into communism now is there?

Here's the paradox - You're taking one very negative thing and leaving it slightly less negative then it was and calling it good.

This is where the "Okay, that's kinda messed up" thought comes in. It's like, let's do something for humanity, but not really. I hope I conveyed that in a way so you can see what I'm seeing here. You don't need to agree with it, but just so we're clear.

 

[dietzcoi]

You guys are silly as hell, we went crazy helping Ethiopia in 1984 (Band-aid) and now it is still a hell-hole. It is a waste of time. Our chumpish few billion dollars of aid won't do a thing but enrich some corrupt politicians.

THe problem is that people do not know history, and react with emotion instead of logic. Silly, silly people

Dietzcoi