Re-Inventing myself online.

[IsiMan84]

Well no wonder nobody's replying to your profile, you reveal too much about yourself and also appear way too goody-goody. There's no air of mystery about you because you laid it all out there. If you wanted to gauge somebody's interest wouldn't you like to at least hear what kind of questions they ask? And you need to drop that entire first paragraph, because for as much as you talk about faith you seem pretty hopeless.

My opinion of online dating - well, in a fast paced world, sometimes people do not have time to meet and get to know people in a traditional sence and this sort of bridges the gap so I believe it's a necessary evil in some sence.

I don't even know where to start with this one. I wouldn't include this for the sole reason that it sounds like you are rationalizing why you are on the internet looking for chicks. You shouldn't need to give any reason you're on the site, because that's well beyond obvious. Besides, if things were "too busy and fast paced" you wouldn't have much time to spend on the computer to begin with. Once again overanalyzing everything.

 

[Grand Wizzard Alamar]

The other two appear to have lost interest during the exchange - one of them possibly because she's an atheist so we are fundmentally incompatable.

Tone it down a little on the religious stuff. What are your personal views on life? How do you see everything through your eyes? Not through God's eyes.

Also the parts where you're talking about virginity may be a turnoff.

 

[Grand Wizzard Alamar]

Oh also I completely agree with the "air of mystery" idea.
Girls don't want to read all of that stuff about yourself.. they'd rather experience it for themselves.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Well no wonder nobody's replying to your profile, you reveal too much about yourself and also appear way too goody-goody.

Reveal too much about myself? What exacty am I supposed to reveal?
The profile I thought just 'rationalized' and talked about faith with some 'forum contributions'.

The only way to delete the forum stuff is one of two ways - I either have to post other things on the forums so it sort of bumps the ones I posted out of my profile, or I have to delete the profile entirely and start a new one unless the admin of the site cooperates to delete the forum posts.

It's a bit tricky, and think the easiest way is simply to post more in some other forums that are off-topic to either religion or sexuality so that sort of dissapears and sort of delete any reference on the profile to looking at the forums - it's assumed a girl is not going to read all the posts in the forums anyway.

And you need to drop that entire first paragraph, because for as much as you talk about faith you seem pretty hopeless.

That sounds more like a personal attack than advice. See that's what I was talking about before. I'm already down to be posting for help on something like this and do not need this.

I'm looking for constructive criticism of my profile. The header "Why cant I find a nice girl on this site?" contradicts the first paragraph? Do you think the header should be changed instead? The header was a good attention grabber.

I don't even know where to start with this one. I wouldn't include this for the sole reason that it sounds like you are rationalizing why you are on the internet looking for chicks. You shouldn't need to give any reason you're on the site, because that's well beyond obvious. Besides, if things were "too busy and fast paced" you wouldn't have much time to spend on the computer to begin with. Once again overanalyzing everything.

Fair enough, I'll be reviewing this thread today and tommorow and then implementing recommended changes on here.

 

[IsiMan84]

What pity-party?

The one you've been on for a year and a half. This thread has no bearing on my judgement of that. If my memory serves me correctly you said you were getting no messages from girls.

I dont see any pity-party here. In fact I think anyone who is not offering practical advice on this thread concerning it's subject matter at hand is hijacking and/or trolling this thread. There is no denial here - just objective facts about the response to my latest profile with the hope of getting a better numbers or response.

Who are you trying to fool? There's advice in every post on here, but it's up to you to take it or leave it. Obviously you've left it. You label any constructive criticism as nobody having a "real response." And the denial part, don't even get me started. You've changed your motive, goals, and projects so many times it's beyond funny. First you wanted to get laid, so we tried to help you. Then when you got nothing you said you'd rather wait until you were married anyway. Rationalizing for things is a feminine trait. You can believe you're in the right as much as you want, but the ones giving you advice are the ones who have had success.

Anyway - if nobody has a real response to the profile - I'm just going to change it with my pre-set agenda on my first post in due time. But I dont think a response ratio of 25% is that bad since some guys have a rate of like 1:12 which is average experience.

You can play the numbers game all day, but would you rather have 2 out of 8 women viewing your page to respond to you (25%) or 100 out of 1200 (1:12)? If I had 100 girls talking to me I think I could care less about my response ratio.

 

[IsiMan84]

Reveal too much about myself? What exacty am I supposed to reveal?

Just enough to pique someone's interest. Give away too much and what is there for them to discover? It almost sounds like you're talking to a shrink.

That sounds more like a personal attack than advice. I'm looking for constructive criticism of my profile. The header "Why cant I find a nice girl on this site?" contradicts the first paragraph? Do you think the header should be changed instead? The header was a good attention grabber.

How is that a personal attack? If anything I'd almost say you are personally attacking the women reading the profile, because you're pre-labeling them as unworthy halfway through the first sentence by claiming few nice girls exist. And your "attention grabber" lacked more confidence than the first paragraph. That is where my "hopeless" claim came from. And by the way I'm religious too, but that doesn't mean I should use it as a reason to give somebody the feeling they're unworthy of READING A PROFILE.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

The one you've been on for a year and a half. This thread has no bearing on my judgement of that. If my memory serves me correctly you said you were getting no messages from girls.

I said I'm getting only a 25% response rate from emails that I have initiated.

Who are you trying to fool? There's advice in every post on here, but it's up to you to take it or leave it. Obviously you've left it.

I'm listening always listening to practical advice or feedback that I can use.

You label any constructive criticism as nobody having a "real response."

Some advice is not helping - such as changing a personality disposition.
Advice directly related to the question I asked, such as the profile, or where to go to meet girls in a church - are helpful since there is something to follow through.

But you cant tell me to just be confident, make girls at feel at ease with me and like me, and not to be nerdy when I'm looking for profile feedback - that's an example of advice that I cant apply.

And the denial part, don't even get me started. You've changed your motive, goals, and projects so many times it's beyond funny. First you wanted to get laid, so we tried to help you. Then when you got nothing you said you'd rather wait until you were married anyway. Rationalizing for things is a feminine trait. You can believe you're in the right as much as you want, but the ones giving you advice are the ones who have had success.

So, what specific advice do you remember was said to me that I didn't listen to?

You can play the numbers game all day, but would you rather have 2 out of 8 women viewing your page to respond to you (25%) or 100 out of 1200 (1:12)? If I had 100 girls talking to me I think I could care less about my response ratio.

I'm talking about people where I sent an email to first. People who have it easy online often get responses initiated from girls and pick and choose rather than play ridicolous number games to get anywhere.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

How is that a personal attack? If anything I'd almost say you are personally attacking the women reading the profile, because you're pre-labeling them as unworthy halfway through the first sentence by claiming few nice girls exist. And your "attention grabber" lacked more confidence than the first paragraph. That is where my "hopeless" claim came from. And by the way I'm religious too, but that doesn't mean I should use it as a reason to give somebody the feeling they're unworthy of READING A PROFILE.

So I'm confused, it sounds like you are talking about the header needs to be changed. I wanted to put something provokative and it seemed to do the trick to get attention because obviously people have read the profile based on the header.

Ok - so the first sentence on the first paragraph sort of puts a negative frame, and the header sort of sounds like I'm a crying baby looking for attention so it's more like people looking at a scene of an accident rather than people who are really genuinely interested in getting to know me.

That means I've already been 'branded' from quite a number of people on there already so I probably have to take a break from that site too and see if there is anyway to know new people that have joined and focus efforts on them. The forum messages will have to be bumped out of the profile.

So, if I understand you correctly - the header and the first sentence put a negative frame/tone on the profile too early - and one of the middle paragraphs is just unnecessary.

What about the last sentence - the qualifying sentence - does that have to go too?

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Well, so far people have said I put stuff on my profile that's probably off-putting to a reader that has to be deleted. This was my original feelings and the feedback on here seems to confirm it and get into the specifics. This is good, but there is no doubt in my mind that this profile had to be changed from the get-go.

I'm not exactly sure what to put on the profile that would place it on a positive frame from the beginning. Now, all I have is the suggestions I put on my first post on this thread as to what to put on my profile after I have deleted the 'off-putting' elements currently on it.

Does anyone have suggestions to writing a captivating profile that will have the desired effect of balance without deviating too far from my personality?

 

[IsiMan84]

I said I'm getting only a 25% response rate from emails that I have initiated.

Yes and I'm saying would you rather have 2 of 8 girls respond or 100 out of 1200? I know you can't be talking to enough girls to justify the 25%.

I'm listening always listening to practical advice or feedback that I can use.

If this was the case then you would be doing things that you aren't doing right now. That is what I was trying to explain earlier. You can listen to advice all you want, but not putting any of it to use makes it essentially worthless.

Some advice is not helping - such as changing a personality disposition.
Advice directly related to the question I asked, such as the profile, or where to go to meet girls in a church - are helpful since there is something to follow through.

So basically what you're telling me is that people can't change. That's a new one.

But you cant tell me to just be confident, make girls at feel at ease with me and like me, and not to be nerdy when I'm looking for profile feedback - that's an example of advice that I cant apply.

Why can't you apply that? Be confident or cócky/funny in what you say or reply. Make girls feel at ease from what you say or reply. You can't make them feel at ease if you aren't at ease yourself. You seem too serious, a joke here and there wouldn't hurt. There's not a thing in your profile, or from what I've gathered from you on here in the past year and a half, that portrays you have a sense of humor. In all honesty the funniest thing about your profile is your picture, and that's not even a knock on your looks. And you'd be a fool not to think women wouldn't pick that up either.

So, what specific advice do you remember was said to me that I didn't listen to?

Well if I remember correctly, dropping the online games and going out into the real world was one of the things said.

I'm talking about people where I sent an email to first. People who have it easy online often get responses initiated from girls and pick and choose rather than play ridicolous number games to get anywhere.

How is the numbers game ridiculous? By not doing so you're only hurting your chances of finding the right person. Like I said earlier, I'd rather talk to 1200 girls and *only* find 100 that are good for me, than to talk to 8 and only find 2. You can call it desperation to approach 1200 women just to make yourself feel better, but I could say the exact same thing about online dating in general so there's really not much to lose.

 

[Nighthawk]

Luke, I'm curious. You make a big deal about your Christianity, and in one of your form links, condemn society 'glorifying sin.' Can you tell me what you regularly do to make the world a better place? Perhaps the right chick for you would dig hearing about that.

 

[young_gun]

Are you waiting for women to message you or are you actually messaging them? One thing I've learned is that online is more of a numbers game than anything. You can't expect your perfect woman to look at your profile and float you a message. Sure, you'll get SOME to message you, but usually not the quality you're looking for.

I did the whole online thing, but after a month I quit because I wasn't meeting the quality of girls I really desired. In that month I met up with 3 girls from the site and ended up staying the night with all of them. But they definitely weren't what I was looking for. Internet profiles can be deceiving. If it isn't working for you, I would give it up altogether.

By the way, you DO have a good profile. You're honest about yourself, what you're looking for, and you don't sound like some needy wussbag. BUT, just because it's an online profile, I wouldn't count on it to get you what you're looking for.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Yes and I'm saying would you rather have 2 of 8 girls respond or 100 out of 1200? I know you can't be talking to enough girls to justify the 25%.

The second one.

Why can't you apply that? Be confident or cócky/funny in what you say or reply. Make girls feel at ease from what you say or reply. You can't make them feel at ease if you aren't at ease yourself.

I'm never at ease around women and I cant seem to help that.

You seem too serious, a joke here and there wouldn't hurt. There's not a thing in your profile, or from what I've gathered from you on here in the past year and a half, that portrays you have a sense of humor.

Sure, intuitively humour is effective of temporarily getting a girl's guard down and creates a bond. The 'December - Santa Clause' profile had humour in it.
Unfortnately, I dont know what will work this month or in January when Christmas is over or what humours thing to write on it.

But if my profile is as bad is it is on here, then just deleting everything on it, bumping the forum messages with other ones, and putting one liners with a little joke here or there would seem like a vast improvement.

In all honesty the funniest thing about your profile is your picture, and that's not even a knock on your looks. And you'd be a fool not to think women wouldn't pick that up either.

Not even a knock on my looks? How is my pics funny? Should I gear my profile towards the pics then and just describe some of the pictures and leave it at that? Nobody has enquired about any pics I had on there.

Well if I remember correctly, dropping the online games and going out into the real world was one of the things said.

I'm not spending all my time with online games - but heck, it seems with obvious issues on my profile that it is worthwhile to at least have a few good profiles floating about even if focusing on offline game.

How is the numbers game ridiculous? By not doing so you're only hurting your chances of finding the right person. Like I said earlier, I'd rather talk to 1200 girls and *only* find 100 that are good for me, than to talk to 8 and only find 2. You can call it desperation to approach 1200 women just to make yourself feel better, but I could say the exact same thing about online dating in general so there's really not much to lose.

Ok, so, I should send out more emails then. Maybe somebody out there may genuinely like me for who I am.

 

[IsiMan84]

So I'm confused, it sounds like you are talking about the header needs to be changed. I wanted to put something provokative and it seemed to do the trick to get attention because obviously people have read the profile based on the header.

Ok - so the first sentence on the first paragraph sort of puts a negative frame, and the header sort of sounds like I'm a crying baby looking for attention so it's more like people looking at a scene of an accident rather than people who are really genuinely interested in getting to know me.

That means I've already been 'branded' from quite a number of people on there already so I probably have to take a break from that site too and see if there is anyway to know new people that have joined and focus efforts on them. The forum messages will have to be bumped out of the profile.

So, if I understand you correctly - the header and the first sentence put a negative frame/tone on the profile too early - and one of the middle paragraphs is just unnecessary.

What about the last sentence - the qualifying sentence - does that have to go too?

I wasn't talking about the header in the beginning, but when you brought it up I realized that could go too. And yes when you try to put a label on somebody then it only puts a label on yourself because you will come off as judgemental of others.

But like I said you need to change yourself. I'm not saying change yourself to fit the needs of a particular person, but change yourself for the better. Anybody can change, but only if they want to. There's no excuse or comeback for that. I was a cool guy in high school, but too scared to approach girls. I got to college and eventually got over that. I changed my disposition (walked more confidently), my look (different clothes and hair, lifted weights), and the way I approached women. I got to the point where I could talk to most girls regardless of looks, which was an improvement over no girls at all. In a way I'm still the same person, but I project my qualities differently than I used to. Does that make sense?

As far as the last sentence goes, I would lose it. It's a qualifying sentence so whether it's good or bad, you're still trying to label the reader. All you needs in an online profile is enough to make a girl say "I think I like this guy" or "I don't think I like this guy." Either way there's an air of mystery that is probably going to make her ask you something. And the way you reply could be the deal breaker for her. And I guarantee probably 90% of the time people only read the profile if the person looks good to them anyway. And to be honest, I don't blame them. Why would you try to talk to someone you're not attracted to to some extent?

 

[IsiMan84]

I'm never at ease around women and I cant seem to help that.

Well I'm sure when you were younger you didn't know how to ride a bike or read and write, but I'm sure you got over that too? The more time you spend around them the easier it gets. I almost crapped myself the first time I was with a girl (we were both in bed and I didn't even try to kiss her) but last time I checked I'm still alive today?

Not even a knock on my looks? How is my pics funny? Should I gear my profile towards the pics then and just describe some of the pictures and leave it at that? Nobody has enquired about any pics I had on there.

Your picture isn't funny. I was trying to prove how unfunny the rest of the profile is, that's all.

Ok, so, I should send out more emails then. Maybe somebody out there may genuinely like me for who I am.

If I'm on MySpace (which is rare) or Facebook, I'll post comments on a few girls' walls just to throw my name in the mix and remind them I exist. Sometimes that's just enough to do it for you.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Are you waiting for women to message you or are you actually messaging them? One thing I've learned is that online is more of a numbers game than anything. You can't expect your perfect woman to look at your profile and float you a message. Sure, you'll get SOME to message you, but usually not the quality you're looking for.

Ok, what I may be saying is that there is a thing of online dating morale. If you get gals initiating emails or get a good response rate to replies that feels good rather than getting a skimpy response rate after allot of effort.

By the way, you DO have a good profile. You're honest about yourself, what you're looking for, and you don't sound like some needy wussbag. BUT, just because it's an online profile, I wouldn't count on it to get you what you're looking for.

So - in a sence my profile weeds out chicks that aren't quality then? There is still at least a response rate - but one of the people that responded to me didn't read the profile. When they read the profile then they stop talking to me for some reason.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Well I'm sure when you were younger you didn't know how to ride a bike or read and write, but I'm sure you got over that too? The more time you spend around them the easier it gets. I almost crapped myself the first time I was with a girl (we were both in bed and I didn't even try to kiss her) but last time I checked I'm still alive today?

Spend more time with women in the form of one-on-one flirting, groups, or just practise approaching? In other words, dont give up on this thing just keep trying to talk to girls out there?

 

[young_gun]

Ok, what I may be saying is that there is a thing of online dating morale. If you get gals initiating emails or get a good response rate to replies that feels good rather than getting a skimpy response rate after allot of effort.

I definitely know what you're saying with the whole "online dating morale". You definitely want a lot of women to notice your profile, and it definitely feels easier when a woman comes forward and messages you first. But if you really want to get the numbers game going, you need to be the one messaging them.

Remember, these women are here for a reason. If you go out to a coffee shop, a mall, etc, women are out there to buy clothes or drink their coffee. In an online dating service, they are specifically there to meet someone in a romantic sense. Damn near 100% of these women are single, and you shouldn't be ashamed to ask them for a meet-up, as long as you have messaged back and forth a few times and decided that she is right for you. Nothing is worse than continually going on dates with women who aren't up to your standards.

So - in a sence my profile weeds out chicks that aren't quality then? There is still at least a response rate - but one of the people that responded to me didn't read the profile. When they read the profile then they stop talking to me for some reason.

This isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying you would have much better luck in the real world. Online is a decent place to meet women, but the real world is a better place to focus your game. If you use online dating as a complement to your approaching women in the real world, it can be a useful tool. However, if you use online dating as your main pipeline to meet women, it's a bad thing.

 

[Luke Skywalker]

Lets divided the responses thus far into two camps.

Camp 1 -- My profile is fine - the problem is that the women on there are not likely spiritually compatable or are of a low quality type anyway and I should just go to churches/small groups and stay away from online dating.

Camp 2 -- I'm shooting myself on the foot with the way the profile is and a normal decent girl who may otherwise have been interested in me would likely pass on the profile since I've red-flaged myself.

My profile needs to virtually deleted because it's a negative frame, too judgemental, and some of the forum posts need to be bumped off the profile so at least - and anything put on the profile should convey some humour and be as short as possible - maybe just write a sentence or two of what makes me tick or passions are - other than trying to pick up a girl from the internet (of course) or appearing fanatical.

 

[young_gun]

You don't need to delete your profile. I don't see any harm with having an internet profile. Your profile communicates who you are, and you shouldn't change who you are for anyone.

BUT, I do think that you need to focus more in the real world. If you want to find a good-hearted Christian woman, a church / small bible study would be the best place to meet this kind of woman. At the same time, you never know who you can meet in the most random of places so always keep your eyes open.