Question for the guys who are married/have been married.

[sixersfan]

Hi fellas, long time lurker here but I though I better get some thoughts on wether or not it is worth being married.

I've been with my girl now for nearly 3 years and we've been recently talking about getting married. The thing is as soon as the words 'marraige' popped up it became ALL about money. She was asking me 'What is your 3 year, 5 year, 10 plan? etc etc.' We're in an apartment right now but she's made it clear she would prefer a house eventually.

I said to her that marriage for women is all about security and love is secondary. Of course she gave the bs reply of 'no no darling it's about love first!' Whatever happened 'for richer or for poorer?' Seems like a load of crap to me.

I don't have a great job or anything like that but I'm happy to work but an average salary doesn't seem enough for her. Keep in mind this lady is very gentle and sweet and never argues or anything like that but it's amazing how it all became monetary when the subject or marraige came up - she's not even that materialistic actually.

Btw guys how do you guys manage to stay faithful when you're married? Is it hard? I'm not even 100% sure I can do this but I do want a family eventually and she is a great cook and doesn't whine often at all.

Thanks for reading and any feedback is greatly appreciated!

 

[jophil28]

Hi fellas, long time lurker here but I though I better get some thoughts on wether or not it is worth being married.

You are about to receive a stream of the best advice on the tips and traps of marriage you can get anywhere on the net.
Your post suggests that you have some reservations about her priority, so best you listen up.

 

[sixersfan]

Thanks, I'm looking forward to it!

 

[LeftyLoosey]

Alright Mr. Sixersfan...

Just to put things into context; I'm divorced, no kids, currently single.

There are a few maxims that get passed around this board that are just about as reliable as Newton's Laws of Physics. One of them is that you should always heed a woman's actions, never her words. You can debate with her all day about her reasons for getting married - she will never tell you the truth, mostly because she isn't even in touch with her own motivations.

I can tell you've learned a lot from lurking here, because you mentioned that a woman marries for security, not for love. That is 100% true, and the second maxim that you must keep in mind. I forget who said it, but it was "men love women, and women love themselves;" so true.

There are three major relationship steps that will result in you losing leverage with your girl. The first is moving in together. One of the benefits of living separately is that your girlfriend will constantly wonder about who you're with and what you're doing. She has to assume that she's competing with other women and will do whatever she can to make sure she's on top; cooking, frequent sex, etc. Once you move in together, she doesn't have to try as hard to win you over, because she knows she's likely the only girl in your life.

The second is marriage. When you marry a girl, you lose all leverage whatsoever. She can leave you at any time and take half your sh1t and she no longer has to put out to secure her place in the relationship. There are methods to keep things fresh. If you're committed to marrying this girl, at least read this, one of Roissy's greatest articles ever.

The third is having kids. I'm assuming by your nickname that you're American. If you have kids with a woman in the USA, you've signed your life away for the next 25 years. She can leave you at any time and the courts will absolutely destroy you. At least if you don't have kids, you can recover from a divorce, financially. If you have kids and your wife leaves you, she'll be laughing all the way to the bank while you struggle to make payments on your 1985 Ford Tempo. Not only that, but if she gets knocked up by someone else, family court will consider the kid yours, regardless.

I'd love to have kids, myself, but it's just too risky. There was a time when society was not accepting of divorce. The wife could not just get up and leave her man because the government support just wasn't there. Today, a woman's got nothing to lose by getting divorced whereas you would have everything to lose.

Your woman is already raising a lot of red flags - she has an agenda and she's being quite obvious about it.

As for staying faithful in a marriage, Rollo Tomassi says it best (I'm sure he'll chime in on this thread at some point). When a man marries, he sacrifices every future potential lay to be with one woman. A woman never fully appreciates how much a man must sacrifice to be with her and only her. Are you willing to do that for your woman?

I will never marry again - not in this day in age - not the way our culture works. The risk/reward is too damn high.

Every case is different, and I wish you much luck, but as Jophil said, listen up to what the experienced men have to say in this thread. These are the guys that saved my life.

 

[TomSwift]

I said to her that marriage for women is all about security and love is secondary. Of course she gave the bs reply of 'no no darling it's about love first!' Whatever happened 'for richer or for poorer?' Seems like a load of crap to me.

I was making $160K+ a year before the real estate market crashed. My wife spent everything on crap leaving us cash poor, then split when we had to sell our house.

Nuff said.

 

[backbreaker]

I'm a few months ahead of you sixersfan, i='m engaged.


honestly, and I mean with the utmost sensority, if my now fiancee, had asked one of those questions to me when I popped the question Iw ould have called it off. If I did not know beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the only reason she wanted to get married was to "have" me, then I wasn't going to do it.

I can smell the reservations in your post. You know the answers to the questions, yoyu just don't know you know them if that makes sense. listen to tomswift. I was one that was hellbent against marriage, and honestly she was okay with that. The kid (we have a son), and me just coming around to the fact that you know what, I don't want to screw anyone else, and I really do love this woman and I know she loves me.. is why I popped the question, if it were anything other than that, we would still be BF + GF and she'd (better) be okay with that.


A woman, should be thankful, gracious that you are proposing to her, not anticipating, scornful. She is supposed to help complete you, to help make you a better man, not to sit there and provide her all the things she is too lazy to work for herself. your woman has a warped since of reality and of what marriage is IMHO

If you want my honest advice, any guy here, should not think about getting married, utnil they have been "here" actively for 2 years. simply because you are selling yourself short on the type of woman you are capable of getting, and you will go into the relationship with a better foundation then what you are going into now.

 

[jophil28]

She was asking me 'What is your 3 year, 5 year, 10 plan? etc etc.' We're in an apartment right now but she's made it clear she would prefer a house eventually.

I think that ALL women and most men would prefer a house. The question is this - what is she willing to contribute to the proposed marriage to get one? Does she have a spoken (or unspoken) expectation that you alone will provide one for her, and her involvement will be picking the paint color and choosing the furniture?.
Does she have a sense of entitlement that she deserves a house off your labor just because she is a female and you are a male?

Take it from me, women cunningly (and skillfully) float many ideas before marriage to "flush you out" .
IF you listen, really listen, she will tell you about her priorites and where her focus lies.

Hasten slowly, SIXERS.

 

[jophil28]

A woman, should be thankful, gracious that you are proposing to her, not anticipating, scornful.

Indeed, she should.
One way to test her bona fides is to listen to what she wants in the future.
Is it all about HER or does she talk about US ?
If she uses the pronoun "I" more than "WE" you are in trouble.

 

[BobMo']

I was married for 23 years. I'm divorced for 11, and I just had a tussle with the ***** yesterday over -what else- the kid and money. It never ends.

I remember like it was yesterday when she asked me "Well, what are we going to do?" That's the marriage ultimatum. (In your case it was the "what's your plan?" speech.) Like a stupid fool, I capitulated, and agreed to it. I wish I had walked.

An older bro' once said to me "Marriage is about losing and hating." Take heed.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Sixers,
In general only marry if you want Children and if you have a high libido,expect it to have a use by date....As the book says,we are just repositories for our genes,if you have siblings,why worry,the genes will mostly carry on...on reflection,marriage for me was the stupidest thing I ever did,I do have five Children,one of whom helped me when I was bedridden a few months ago....The life I lead is so rich,so full of Sex and adventure I would love to be in your shoes...I look at my married Schoolmates,my heart bleeds for them,mostly no sex,and a slaves life,compared to me they are paupers,even though most of them are asset millionaires.

 

[Scaramouche]

Dear Bobmo,
Yeah funny!....my last marriage lasted 23 years too...we had a couple of kids,.she wanted them the deal was there were no expectations from me,she just felt at 29 that the clock was ticking,out of pity I fell in with her agenda...then a couple of years later,every thing seemed fine when she went on a trip with the kids...She returned,Alone,"I am leaving unless you put a ring on my finger"after several days I capitulated,but it was an Armistice,a Pre-Nuptial or No deal...Amazingly she initially refused "Where is the Romance in That" she said.....The Hypocricy,Romance?with the marks of the double barrelled Shot Gun burned into my back!!!....Anyway after a week she capitulated...Looking back I should have given her Marching Orders...Funny this Christmas she asked me over for Dinner,aren't they unbelievable.

 

[sodbuster]

FIRST, I'd ask what HER goals are. How is she going to contribute to the marriage? IF her goals are to stay at home and raise the kids... leaving all the heavy lifting to you,are you OK with it?

From the sounds of it, the little princess doesn't think you are good enough for her[what are your long term goals?].YOU need to get the frame back. Has she proven she's worthy of YOU?

As far as cheating, wasn't an issue..... I wasn't sure I wanted the one I had,I sure as he11 didn't need two. Still not sure I need another one... they come and they go,but none have stayed[I truly don't shive a git]

 

[KarmaSutra]

You gain nothing, but lose everything.

You lose your freedom, your sense of self, pride, hope, a life full of promise.

You want to know what she gains? Weight. By the ass load. She has the legal system to back her against the threat of your leaving. Why shouldn't she eat that fourth slice of chocolate ganache cake? You can't go anywhere.

Stay together with her but be prepared for her to walk away if she doesn't find you easily manipulated.

It's far better to be eternally happy single, than miserable for one goddamned minute in a relationship.

 

[jophil28]

FIRST, I'd ask what HER goals are. How is she going to contribute to the marriage?

Good words .
Ultimately it comes down to this question...
Are you thinking about marrying a co-pilot or a passenger?

 

[sixersfan]

You guys are lifesavers thanks so much! Btw quick question have any of you guys thought 'screw this I don't want to get married or have kids I just want to sleep around for the rest of my life.' Has anyone done this? Any regrets? I'm seriously contemplating this.
Thanks again guys.

 

[KarmaSutra]

I have.

I've resigned myself to a life of perpetual bachelorhood. As I said, it's a lifestyle with a heavy price.

Twice in the past year I've had to break off relationships with phenomenal women because they pushed me to a life, " 'til death do us part".

You guys think it's hard establishing a relationship with a woman who values you as much as she values yourself? Try breaking up with her.

I did it twice (so far). The institution of marriage does nothing to make me more powerful. Not in my decision making, not in growth; nothing. I can't say this is the life for anyone but me. I've been married and know the consequences and limitations I settled for. I will not do it again.

Not every man can manage a revolving door of women.

 

[backbreaker]

FIRST, I'd ask what HER goals are. How is she going to contribute to the marriage? IF her goals are to stay at home and raise the kids... leaving all the heavy lifting to you,are you OK with it?

From the sounds of it, the little princess doesn't think you are good enough for her[what are your long term goals?].YOU need to get the frame back. Has she proven she's worthy of YOU?

As far as cheating, wasn't an issue..... I wasn't sure I wanted the one I had,I sure as he11 didn't need two. Still not sure I need another one... they come and they go,but none have stayed[I truly don't shive a git]

It really is sad the type of contempt the avg woman today has for the avg man.

I am enamored with Russian history. I don't know why, maybe becuase I think Russian women are hot lol. Anyway, Cathrine the great, IMHO, in todays standards, is a better looking version of hillary clinton. Extremely brilliant not just intelligent, truly brilliant. Extremely ambitious, extremely power hungry. And as brilliant as she was, as much of a catch she knew she was, even she knew, she could not aspire to what she wanted to aspire to, without a man by her side. Even when she was the emperor of russia, had all the power in the world, she still went out of her way to woo men who she knew could help her achieve what she wanted to achieve, and she allowed herself to be a woman / lover to the men. And you have women walking around today in 2011, thinking because they have a size 5 waist, and have blue eyes and their tits are somewhat perky without a bra, that regardless of what your accomplishments are in life, you live to serve them. It truly is a shame, and truely men don't help the cause with their actions for the most part.

 

[sixersfan]

I have.

I've resigned myself to a life of perpetual bachelorhood. As I said, it's a lifestyle with a heavy price.

Twice in the past year I've had to break off relationships with phenomenal women because they pushed me to a life, " 'til death do us part".

You guys think it's hard establishing a relationship with a woman who values you as much as she values yourself? Try breaking up with her.

I did it twice (so far). The institution of marriage does nothing to make me more powerful. Not in my decision making, not in growth; nothing. I can't say this is the life for anyone but me. I've been married and know the consequences and limitations I settled for. I will not do it again.

Not every man can manage a revolving door of women.

KarmaSutra when is your book coming out? btw how do you deal with clingy women and how do they take when you say you have no intention of marrying?

 

[sixersfan]

Btw last week I was on the bus and overheard two guys in front of me. "I'm currently divorcing my wife.'' The other guy said 'Oh really I've just finished with my 2nd wife' **** this I thought! So I though it's best I seek the wisdom of some of you older guys who have been there and done that.

 

[KarmaSutra]

KarmaSutra when is your book coming out? btw how do you deal with clingy women and how do they take when you say you have no intention of marrying?

1. I have two publishers currently looking at my manuscript. I will not release it until it's exactly the message I intend to convey.

2. They don't have a choice about it. It's MY life. I choose which way it goes. My feelings don't sway me against what my experience has dictated as truth.

We cry, b!tch, moan, complain, then part ways. Such is the life. It has it's downside, believe me.

But, I'm far more secure knowing I can walk out my door and meet another fabulous girl, rather than stay mired in the miasma of misery which is one-sided commitment.