Question for the guys who are married/have been married.

[Warrior74]

I would like to take the time to say a few things that are burning right now.

Alot of, what is the word I am looking for, I don't think alot of people here, are being 100% honest about the situtation, let me just put it that way.
,
1. I don't have any, "friends" per say. I have associates who I do thinggs with and go over their house, but not, bail me out of jail type friends. But we have a social circle, probably, 40-50 people in all when it's all said and done. We know, 2 people that are in very serious rellationshipos, 1 group that is engaged like us, and 4 marired couples. I would say, of them, 2 of them I would call happy, one of the married coupls, and the relationship couples. I think the engaged guy got "the plan" talk put on him and gave in. 2 of the married people are miserable, one of them, is married to a smoking, smokin hot woman that works hert husband like a dog while she sits at home and drinks /kicks it all day long.. one couple I am on the fence about, they fight alot but I think they actually like it.

Anyway, I say this.. that's how many miserable guys... 4 miserable guys by my count.. yes 4. Now.. of those miserable guys, the 1 guy that is basically a serf lol, the guy that is fighting with his (very avg looking) wife constantly, the other guy that is married to a woman that went from about 120 to about 165 since I have known them and the engaged guy that got given "the plan"... here is the question you have to ask yourself. Do you really think, if these guys were single, they would be any happier lol?

It's an illogical fallacy to blame their unhappiness, on the marriage. They are miserable because they have no ****ing backabone and don't know how to handle women. The reason the guy puts up with his wife harpooning is because he CAN'T go get another woman, or he doesn't think he can, you honestly think, taking his wife away is going to really be the cure all to his problems? He has a core / inner game problem, which is not going to be fixed.. hell if you took her away, he'd probably want her back.

The other guy who I know is happy, one of htem, the guy who is married, wife is a dime piece, they **** like rabbits, and he's a guy that I know for a fact, if they broke up, would not have a problem at all getting laid. The thing is, she knows it too. She has a catch, and she knows it and acts accordingly.

My whole point in saying this was, please stop using 'outsiders' as some type of reference to how marriages don't work. most guys have no freaking clue, and would be just as miserable if they were single because they have never gotten control over that aspect of their lives, they don't understand it. "They are.. those sea thingys lol, that just sit there and wait for food to come and whatever comes comes and they are freaking happy with it. Just like, you would not compare your relationships, or how you handled them 10 years ago to how yo would handle them now. That's whyI really don't even judge women anymore.


2. Don't get me wrong. This site, has , opening hundreds of eyes, including mine of the ways of the opposite sex. For that I am thankful. But sometimes at the expensive of not being 100% truthful.

Let me ask you a question, and be honest.. We talk about women using marriage to gain weight.. I can't think of one guy, and i'm dead serious, that went ot the gym, ate like he was eating pre marriage, kept up his wardrobe the way it was before he was married... men use marriage as an excuse to, though no one wants to every admit it. The truth is, womenc heat, for hte same ****ing reason men cheat, they fall out of love. They fall out of love beucase alot of times, that person, is not the same person that they were when they got married. Some of it has to do with looks. One of the married guys we know, used to go the gym with me everyday before he got married, now he works and goes home. We were playing softball the other day at the park, just a big group of us, he was heesing running the bases after hitting a double. This is a guy who could get on the treadmill for 45 minutes at a time and be ready to keep going. He has a bit of a beer gut now.


But alot of guys, never had the frame to begin with. you can't be happy in any relationship if you don't have the framework set.

I am not interested in using women, or men, as a scapegoat for all my problems. I simply want to learn how to deal with the opposite sex the best way I can, to understand and not blame, to accept and not chastise, to be prepared and attackt and not whine.

You have to wonder if those same men who started slacking in their game started slacking because they were married or because of WHO they were married to. Both are possibilities. More important than having the frame is picking the right one. And who can say what will happen when you're circumstances change?

I know a guy. Air Force Captain. Great guy, charismatic, athletic, had a lot of girls. Married one of the hottest chics we knew, her family has money. Adopted her kid, they had a kid. Moved off. Once the new wore off, she decided she didn't want to be an Air Force wife and follow him around, so she divorced him, and moved home with the kids. Now if you knew them before the divorce, you would have swore they were the perfect couple. You just never know which way the worm will turn and what lives deep inside people's hearts and minds. You can never know. It's just a gamble, or faith, or luck. I'm not wealthy enough to take those chances and lose.

 

[Bible_Belt]

Hi fellas, long time lurker here but I though I better get some thoughts on wether or not it is worth being married.

I've been with my girl now for nearly 3 years and we've been recently talking about getting married. The thing is as soon as the words 'marraige' popped up it became ALL about money. She was asking me 'What is your 3 year, 5 year, 10 plan? etc etc.' We're in an apartment right now but she's made it clear she would prefer a house eventually.

I said to her that marriage for women is all about security and love is secondary. Of course she gave the bs reply of 'no no darling it's about love first!' Whatever happened 'for richer or for poorer?' Seems like a load of crap to me.

I don't have a great job or anything like that but I'm happy to work but an average salary doesn't seem enough for her. Keep in mind this lady is very gentle and sweet and never argues or anything like that but it's amazing how it all became monetary when the subject or marraige came up - she's not even that materialistic actually.

Btw guys how do you guys manage to stay faithful when you're married? Is it hard? I'm not even 100% sure I can do this but I do want a family eventually and she is a great cook and doesn't whine often at all.

Thanks for reading and any feedback is greatly appreciated!

In none of this do you mention the amount of money or income she brings to the table. In the current feminist age, it should be insulting that the man be expected to be the primary breadwinner. When she asks about your plan, turn it around on her. Is her family rich? If not, she had better have a good job.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up so poor, but I've never going to live with a woman who doesn't pay all the bills. That is the price of being with me. In the past 16 years since I have left my parents house, through one 7 year marriage and one current cohabitation, I have either been single and payed all my own bills or lived with a woman who payed for everything. I still share whatever money I have when I have it, but I would never be responsible for a woman's bills. In our current times, the idea that the man is supposed to support the woman is ridiculous.

 

[KarmaSutra]

Let me ask you a question, and be honest.. We talk about women using marriage to gain weight.. I can't think of one guy, and i'm dead serious, that went ot the gym, ate like he was eating pre marriage, kept up his wardrobe the way it was before he was married... men use marriage as an excuse to, though no one wants to every admit it. The truth is, womenc heat, for hte same ****ing reason men cheat, they fall out of love. They fall out of love beucase alot of times, that person, is not the same person that they were when they got married. Some of it has to do with looks. One of the married guys we know, used to go the gym with me everyday before he got married, now he works and goes home. We were playing softball the other day at the park, just a big group of us, he was heesing running the bases after hitting a double. This is a guy who could get on the treadmill for 45 minutes at a time and be ready to keep going. He has a bit of a beer gut now.

You make a good point Brother Ballbreaker. However, the inherent flaw lies in it's overcompensation.

Most men never know true love. They get married out of expectation. They're groomed from the time their shat (or sliced) out of Mom, that having a wife and family is the be-all to end-all of their lives. They don't love their potential wives. They love the "idea" of being a husband and all of the grandiose attention and faux status that comes with said expectation.

What's most tragic is once they get married, get her preggo, shat the kids, buy the house, mow the yard, stop having sex with their wives, stop appreciating her as a person; instead, they see her as the result of what their friends and family wanted for him.

By then, it's too late.

I've been in love. I've been married.

I know now that marriage is not the definition of love and commitment.

Ultimatums will never do anything but show her the door.

 

[KarmaSutra]

In none of this do you mention the amount of money or income she brings to the table. In the current feminist age, it should be insulting that the man be expected to be the primary breadwinner. When she asks about your plan, turn it around on her. Is her family rich? If not, she had better have a good job.

Maybe I'm biased because I grew up so poor, but I've never going to live with a woman who doesn't pay all the bills. That is the price of being with me. In the past 16 years since I have left my parents house, through one 7 year marriage and one current cohabitation, I have either been single and payed all my own bills or lived with a woman who payed for everything. I still share whatever money I have when I have it, but I would never be responsible for a woman's bills. In our current times, the idea that the man is supposed to support the woman is ridiculous.

This is diligence, not anti-feminism. I'm on the same page.

Unfortunately, within the Western marriage ritual, this too, is an expectation.

 

[jophil28]

In our current times, the idea that the man is supposed to support the woman is ridiculous.

Perhaps so, but don't expect women generally to agree with you.
Why should they - having men as providers is entirely in their interests and they are not about to forgo the benefits just to conform to the purity of hardline feminist ideology or even gender parity.

 

[BobMo']

"In our current times, the idea that the man is supposed to support the woman is ridiculous."

Maybe so, but we're talking about marriage here, and marriage is a legal construct, and where I live, the husband has the responsibility (and gets ordered by the State) to support the wife and kids to a degree determined by the State.

You don't have to take my word for it. Ask any divorced man you might know- better yet, ask a divorced dad. I suppose there are a few cases where the wife had to pay the husband, but I'll wager that they' re rare.

 

[Rollo Tomassi]

In our current times, the idea that the man is supposed to support the woman is ridiculous.

The current, feminine-centric legal system regarding child support, spousal support, divorce settlements and child custody / responsibility (irrespective of actual DNA parentage) don't seem to think this "idea" is ridiculous at all.

"Idea" is the operative term here. The feminine social convention (you're buying into) is such that women are expected to be independent entities, completely autonomous from male influence or provisioning. The reality however is much different. The idea may be female independence, but the practice is female hypergamy.

In fact this paradox is almost schizophrenic for women. The overt, boastful message is feminine independence, but simultaneously one of not settling for a mate of less than equal or better financial or social status than themselves. Look up any of the online dating service profile threads here on SS - overwhelmingly these women's message is, "He needs to treat me like a Princess, but I can take care of my own damn self, I make my own money". That may be an extreme illustration, but it serves to show the mindset. If women truly didn't need to rely on men financially they'd never seek restitution in divorce.

 

[DropZone3]

Imagine the masterpiece statue of David by Michelangelo in Florence. Now imagine a woman next to David with intentions to change it more to her liking by slowly chipping at it. How long will David remain a masterpiece?

Unlike the statue of David who cannot stop from slowly being chipped at, will you be able to remain strong from het constant challenges?

 

[Tazman]

Outside of religious beliefs (if that's your gig), what's the point in having the government involved with your relationship? That's all that changes when you get married. You sign an agreement that neither one of you have to uphold in the future if you don't want to, and to make matters worse, you stand to disrupt your life and cause yourself a lot of grief (depending on how things play out).

Don't get married just because other people are pressuring you to. You need to truly sit down and ask yourself what purpose getting married serves, what it means to you personally and why you feel you should/shouldn't risk making such a decision.

A piece of paper can remain "static" until it disintegrates into dust. People are not static, never have been, never will be. The only person you can be sure of is yourself, your wife can decide on a whim that she's done and turn your life upside down if you give give her that power.

That's what marriage does, it empowers women, that's why they push for it, that's why they've no reason to be afraid of it. They can live comfortably knowing that you're the one that stands to lose much more and face much harsher conditions should things fall apart.

Sure, I've seen successful marriages, well not many, maybe 4 in my whole family (I define successful as not getting divorced, so they may be miserable for all I know). The women are fat, and the men are devoted AFCs.

 

[Colossus]

"Idea" is the operative term here... If women truly didn't need to rely on men financially they'd never seek restitution in divorce.

Yeah I agree. These days women like to be equal with men on pretty much everything, EXCEPT responsibility. Example--my roommate (24 y/o female) LOVES to say how she is such a "strong, independent lady". She is so proud of herself that she can pay her bills (most of them) do grad school, live far from home, etc, etc. Basically what most of us would call being an adult. So, I decided that I'm moving out this spring, and when I drop the news on her, guess what happens??? Waterworks. Crying, sobbing, calling her parents, "what am I gonna do what am i gonna do???". Lol. I knew she she would freak, too. The whole "independence" thing is great until they are put in a hard place, or there is some money to be had.

Also, pictures are worth a thousand words (and laughs): http://whitemaleoppressor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1777.jpg

 

[Bible_Belt]

marriage is a legal construct, and where I live, the husband has the responsibility (and gets ordered by the State) to support the wife and kids to a degree determined by the State.

Where do you live? The law aspect is always interesting to me. Most of men's pain from divorce comes from child support, and it is typical for the woman to get the kids and the man to pay 25-50% of his income in child support. In contrast, spousal alimony is much more rare. Only if one spouse has no income and depends upon the other is it typically granted, and even then for a limited time, a year or two. Alimony clauses are often placed in pre-nups to make them fair agreements.

Or at least that is how it is supposed to work. Afoaf just got divorced from a woman living out of state, no kids between them. She made $120,000 a year, and he made $20,000, and her divorce petition demanded that the court order him to pay her support. Apparently her attorney always included the demand for alimony in any divorce. One of the rules of legal ethics is that you are never supposed to make an argument to the court that you know is ridiculous. That attorney should be reprimanded for that behavior, but lawyers are supposed to be self-policing and self-regulating, which means they do whatever the hell they want.

The male respondent in that case did not end up having to pay alimony, but only because he filed an answer and showed up in court. Had he not done so, the court might have actually ordered the alimony. The legal system is set up so that the lawyers get paid first. The system will royally screw you if you don't pursue all of your legal rights, usually by paying a lawyer and thus accomplishing the prime directive of the legal system.

 

[DMEDFISIK]

I have never been married, so obviously I know the hazards involved. However, I am not against it. I have just chosen to remain unmarried because quite honestly, I love my independence. I have been with my present gf for 2 years now though, and IF I was to marry, it will be with her. Odds are I will be asking her at some time in the near future.

I think it is important to keep in mind that 99% of the men posting on this website are here because they are having trouble with attracting and keeping a women, so their point of view is more than likely going to be slanted to the anti women, and thus anti marriage side. I am sure there are many websites where the prevailing view would be that marriage is great. Just to keep things in perspective.

Great point. I think marriage can be a great thing provided you marry the right woman (extremely critical) and you maintain a strong frame.

 

[Powerlifter]

OK so the main point of this thread is if you want to marry marry the right woman and keep the frame.

Personally that is so much bullcrap and to much work to deal with there is enough to deal with in life and to deal with a frame what the hell. So just stay single and you will be a better man for it than those who fell prey to the social conventions that be. To bad for them for they are trapped.

So give reps to those who weren't stupid to marry. I have been single my whole life and saw through the bullcrap of marriage. To bad those in this thread didn't see it and were dumb enough to fall prey to it ha ha.

Enough said.

Single and proud to be and forever to be.

Powerlifter

 

[countermart]

I was married for 12 years, now divorced. She has been taking me to court for three years and has cost me a small fortune. My children where the best thing to come out of my marriage. If it was not for them I would consider getting married to her the worst decision I have ever made.

I recently broke up with a great girl after a year because she wanted the whole baby, commitment thing. But there is no way I am ever going down that road again. The risk is all mine.

Most women are just too emotionally unreliable to link your life to. I wish someone had taken me aside and told me that when I was younger. It has nothing to do with being alpha or maintaining the frame, believe me.

Your girl is already putting conditions on your marriage. That is a huge red flag!

Don’t get me wrong, I love women but as Casanova said, “Marriage is the tomb of love” and Socrates, “Never call a man unhappy until he is married.” These guys were smart and right!

Conconcordon

“I think it is important to keep in mind that 99% of the men posting on this website are here because they are having trouble with attracting and keeping a women, so their point of view is more than likely going to be slanted to the anti women, and thus anti marriage side.”

Not true: 40 – 50% of marriages end in divorce. Probably another 10 – 30% of people are unhappy but hanging in there for financial reasons, the kids, fear etc, etc. So between 50 – 80% of people are basically made unhappy by getting married. It is nothing but a gamble where the odds are against you.

A failure of society is that it continues to live in denial about these statistics, perhaps because most happy ever after Disney movies end just after the nuptials, and that’s just before things begin to go downhill. The truth is the Prince would have given his left arm just to get Sleeping Beauty back to sleep a few years later.

The reality today (and it was in the past in some cultures) is that marriage is nothing more than a business contract in the eyes of the law. One that is slanted against the male in most cases.

There are some great other posts here...listen to the guys that have walked the road.

Countermart

 

[Die Hard]

Also, pictures are worth a thousand words (and laughs): http://whitemaleoppressor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1777.jpg

That put a biiiiig smile on my face!

 

[Die Hard]

Also, pictures are worth a thousand words (and laughs): http://whitemaleoppressor.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/1777.jpg

That put a biiiiig smile on my face!

 

[romangod]

But, I can't deny the part of me that fears being alone at 60 years of age with no wife or kids. I mean, I can get easily get laid now, but I'm guessing it will be a lot tougher the older I get.

I'd suggest you overcome this irrational fear. You're assuming a lot.


Firstly, in today's society there's no guarantee that you'll still be married at 60 years of age. The odds appear to be against you. It will be even harder for you if the marriage ends or the wife dies not having the experience of being alone. You'll be like a fish out of water.


Fear of loneliness is the worst reason to get married. Many people are lonelier in their marriage than when they leave.


If that's the driving force, prepare to suffer. It's based on fear.


Cheers!

 

[zekko]

I suppose I should give my two cents here since I was married, now divorced.
I think it's a bit cynical to say that marriage offers nothing at all to the male. I wouldn't describe starting your own family as nothing. Personally, I enjoy having a stable and comfortable home life to go to.

However, marriage is a huge risk, a huge gamble, and a man must go into it with much, much more thought than a woman does. I could not recommend marriage to any man in this day and age, because of the low percentage chance of success, due largely to the sexual revolution, the birth control pill, feminism, and the general decline in morality.

When I married, my attitude was I would try anything once. I knew it was a risk. The time seemed right, and I seemed to have the right girl. Obviously I chose wrong in that regard ultimately, but at least I chose well enough that she didn't try to ream me on the settlement. We had no children fortunately, because then I probably would have had to kiss my life goodbye and exist only to support her and the offspring.

what's the point in having the government involved with your relationship? That's all that changes when you get married. You sign an agreement that neither one of you have to uphold in the future if you don't want to

And that's why I'm living with my current girlfriend and not married to her (eight years now). It occurred to me the other day that I've now lived with her longer than I was married.
Eventually I will likely marry her mainly just so she can inherit my estate without being taxed to death. I want her to be taken care of.

 

[Colossus]

Outside of religious beliefs (if that's your gig), what's the point in having the government involved with your relationship? That's all that changes when you get married. You sign an agreement that neither one of you have to uphold in the future if you don't want to, and to make matters worse, you stand to disrupt your life and cause yourself a lot of grief (depending on how things play out).

Don't get married just because other people are pressuring you to. You need to truly sit down and ask yourself what purpose getting married serves, what it means to you personally and why you feel you should/shouldn't risk making such a decision.

A piece of paper can remain "static" until it disintegrates into dust. People are not static, never have been, never will be. The only person you can be sure of is yourself, your wife can decide on a whim that she's done and turn your life upside down if you give give her that power.

That's what marriage does, it empowers women, that's why they push for it, that's why they've no reason to be afraid of it. They can live comfortably knowing that you're the one that stands to lose much more and face much harsher conditions should things fall apart.

Sure, I've seen successful marriages, well not many, maybe 4 in my whole family (I define successful as not getting divorced, so they may be miserable for all I know). The women are fat, and the men are devoted AFCs.

This really reflects my central view on marriage. I do not believe in government involvement in my personal relationships. Something I have advocated for a long time here that largely goes undiscussed is NOT signing a marriage license. This is what makes it property of the state, essentially. if you are going to marry, have be a union before God, yourselves, and your family. Sign a personal document together as a symbol of your commitment. in my mind, that's all I need. When you sign a contract, it goes from CHOICE, to OBLIGATION. That's what changes people.

The obvious downside is you aren't legally recognized as a couple, therefore you dont get the benefits of that. There are some ways to get healthcare rights regarding major life support decisions, should something catastrophic happen. Also, everyone should have an advanced directive written up for themselves. This is what dictates what will happen should you be in a vegetative state or on some form of terminal life support. Make sure you have a legal document of what you would want to happen, lest the wrong persons get involved in that decision.

But I digress....it will sure as hell be hard to find a woman who would agree to a license-less marriage, because it obviously negates all of their legal leverage. Also, once you have kids together, I think it kind of becomes a de facto marriage should you split up. I am not a legal in any way shape or form though so maybe Bible Belt could chime in.

 

[sixersfan]

Thanks guys keep them coming. Another thing I would like to add is that my brother just got divorced after 7 years of marriage. He wanted her to be a housewife and just be at home cooking, cleaning and raising kids because she was more concerned about her career.

They were both making, say, 130k each, and now my brother has met a woman who loves doing volunteer work and I think she and her family think she has hit the jackpot as she is from a poor family. I told my brother he was an idiot for getting divorced he could have retired at 50 and played golf all day.

In my brother's case he had it good as his wife was more concerned with work than being a housewife so she had plenty to offer as she had a good head on her shoulders.