Quagmire911 Lifting Journal

RMM

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I should make some graphs to explain this one of these days, but...

The reason why steady cardio = muscle eating is the fact that the enzyme Pyruvate Dehydrogenase catalyzes an irreversible step in glucolysis. Let me explain.

When burning sugar, the chain of reactions can be divided into two parts: One that happens regardless of whether there's oxygen or not, and a second part where the destination depends on the presence of oxygen.

1. Glucose (6 cabon atoms, 6C) <-> <-> <-> Pyruvate (2 x 3C). This chain of reactions is completely reversible, going left to right creates energy (ATP) and some reduced coenzymes (NADH). If you go the other way, you need to use energy and oxydize the coenzymes.

Now, NADH is limited, since it's a coenzyme. That means it's supposed to be used as intermediary of the reacions but not be altered itself. But that's okay, in the presence of oxygen, NADH + H+ + O2 -> NAD + H2O + Energy! That energy can be harnessed and create more usable ATP. Good stuff all around.

2a. Next step. IF THERE IS OXYGEN: Pyruvate (3C) -> Acetyl-Coenzyme A (2C). Acetyl-Coenzyme A has one destination, be turned into CO2 and lots of energy, with the use of Oxygen.

2b. If there isn't oxygen, the body has a problem. That problem is that it's using up all the NAD coenzyme to create NADH (see 1.), but it's not freeing it up. So, there is an "emergency dump", so to speak: Pyruvate + NADH + H+ <-> Lactate + NAD

And that's where lactic acid comes from. Now, the lactic acid reaction is completely reversible. So if the body's using up all the sugar with little oxygen (anaerobic), then it'll accumulate Lactate.

Anyway, the other way to obtain energy, fat, depends completely on the presence of oxygen. Why? Well, it creates reduced coenzymes too, but fat is broken down into Acetyl-Coenzyme A, always! And the way to use that is to burn it with oxygen (well, or create ketone bodies, but that's only mostly for transport, it'll need oxygen regardless). Because Pyruvate Dehydrogenase is irreversible there is no way to create sugar from Acetyl-Coenzyme A.

The point of all this? Think about what happens when you have depleted your supply of sugar.

Aerobic: You've burned it all into CO2 (together with some fat). But the body wants to keep some sugar around at all times, so it'll either take it from food, or it will try to regenerate it. However, there's no way to get sugar from fat (ironic, since fat from sugar is so easy), so it'll use whatever it can to regenerate that sugar (gluconeogenesis). And what can it use? Aminoacids. Several aminoacids can be converted into something in the first part of glucolysis that can be reversed and made into glucose.

If you go doing aerobics for a long time, way past your sugar reserves, then sure you'll burn fat. But your body will try to regenerate its standard level of sugar to have enough in blood, so it'll eat away at whatever aminoacids are available.

Anaerobic: You have a lot of lactic acid kicking about. So as soon as oxygen starts getting into the system your body will turn that lactic acid around and into glucose FRST, then it'll go after the aminoacids if it still needs more sugar.

The good news, no matter what way you went, gluconeogenesis will use the energy from fats to happen. It's a matter of what substrate it'll use to create those sugars.

Now, how does that concern you? How much aerobic you can do without eating at the muscle will depend on several things I cannot really predict, your overall level of fitness (how efficient your body is at moving while using as little energy as possible), how the regulation between the fat burning and sugar burning pathways in your metabolism is balanced, even if you've taken food and are digesting and absorbing sugar and free aminoacids while doing your cardio, etc etc. I'm a molecular biologist, so I'm not so good at the "big picture" of the overall body balance (there's hormonal and overall homeostasis processes involved, I can tell you a lot about what events are triggered by the different hormones in individual cells, but that's not what you'd likely be interested in!).

But bottom line: There is an unavoidable reason why Aerobic will eventually eat into the muscle, however how much of it you can do and reap benefits from will depend on quite a few factors, so it may work for you while not work so good for others.

Also note: Heart muscle is a bit on the special side, because it consumes fat with high preference over stored sugar. Probably evolved that way because of its origin (came from a specialization of vascular smooth muscle) and because it's always guaranteed to have the best supply of oxygen of the body. A strong heart beating away hard will use fat nicely.
 

Quagmire911

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Interesting stuff.

Rest assured, if I start losing strength and mass, the jogging will be canned.

I'm just interested to see if a few miles here and there is really going to make a difference- I don't think it will. It's different if I was doing hour + sessions. The fact I am not 250 pounds and don't want to be also makes a difference.

We will see.

Quagmire
 

Cure

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What it comes down to is strength vs all round athleticism.

My opinion is that its worth being not as strong as you could be, if it means you can get your heart and lungs trained really nicely.

Being able to deadlift 500lb is pointless if you cant run to catch a bus.

I highly doubt jogging will have any affect on your mass. I've managed to make steady gains in weight and I have a very active lifestyle with cycling and power walking places.

Id suggest focusing on short bursts of running at high intensity, two miles or less, that way you don't burn many calories but heart and lung capacity increases.

Cure.
 

Quagmire911

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Thursday

Decided to go heavy today. Here it is:

DB oh press 22x5 26x5 30kgx8- Not bad.

Chins Bwx5 +5kgx8 Bwx5

Sumo deadlift 115x5 130x5 150kgx7- I was really strong at the bottom, but really weak at the top. Going to can this and use conventional again. I think I will do higher rep work sumo after conventional.

Deads 100kg 2x10- Just did this in prepartion for next week. All reps were like speed work.

Kneeling rolloutsx15x10

Kroc rows 40kgDBx20- Had to reset a couple of times because of grip. Jarred my already funny thumb. Might need to get it looked at.

Bi curls 16kgDBx5- Had enough by this point and just left.

Not a bad day, but not great. Only the first session of the new cycle, so I'm not too bothered.

Weight was 177.5 this morning and waist was around 34".

Probably cardio tommorow. Until then...

Quagmire
 

Fuglydude

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Nice Krok row! Do you find you work your abductors/adductors a lot w/ the sumo DL? I'm kind of scared of it as it doesn't feel very natural for me, but I definitely would like an exercise to strength my abductors/adductors.
 

Quagmire911

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Have you ever tried just plain old hip machines? They work pretty well to a certain extent.
 

Fuglydude

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Quagmire911 said:
Have you ever tried just plain old hip machines? They work pretty well to a certain extent.
I dont' know the machines in my gym very well, so I'm not sure if they have one or not. I'll have to snoop around. What's your experience w/ set/rep ranges w/ hip machine exercises? I'd think 10-15 reps would work reasonably well w/ movements like hip adduction.
 

Quagmire911

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Remember too do hip abduction and adduction.

To be honest you'll probably get up to using the full stack fairly quickly. Best then just to do 2 sets or so and keep increasing the reps. I did 25 reps last week, may as well keep going. As long as they are kept activated by this, they should get worked more in the squat and deadlift.


Friday

Cardio:

Treadmill 30 minutes 6mph 3 miles- The first 20 minutes were alright. The last 10 minutes I settled into it and was comfortable.

That's it for this week. Until next week...

Quagmire

Ps- Did the hip machines and pec deck as well.
 

Quagmire911

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I weighed 177.5lbs the other day at around 5 9". Not going past that just yet. Probably 12% or so now.

Monday

Decent day today. Here it is:

Bench 60x5 70x5 80kgx10- I got 13 a few weeks ago, but I deliberatley left a few in the tank. I was around that level today. Could have got 14 for all I know, but that is speculation.

Squat 85x5 100x5 115kgx10- Same again, got 13 two weeks ago. This felt better on the heart this week, so I'm confident I could have beaten 13 this time. However, I didn't want to run myself into the ground at the start of the cycle so I left a bit in the tank.

Skullcrushers EZ+20x10 EZ+25kgx10x10 PR- Good stuff. How much does an ez weigh? I think it is 10kg.

Leg press 200x5 250x5 300kgx6 (660lbs) PR - It was only me and the big guy in the gym today, and he leg pressed 520kg. So I decided I'd have to be less of a puss* and go for 300 today. I truly thought I was at my best around 285, but it just goes to show there was more there. 520 though, thats about 1150lbs. There wasn't any room left to put plates on the damn thing. It was sweet.

Kroc rows 46kgx20 (101lbs) PR- Man these just burn everywhere. It actually is the exercise that fry's my hammies the most, which is odd. Had to reset quite a lot because of grip, but that is partly why I am doing it. Grip and deadlift lockout baby! Unfortunately the DB's only go to 48 or 50kg, so I don't know what I'll do. Probably just add reps and sets. But these suck.

Pec deck 50x10 60x10 75kgx6- Found a lever thing that moves the rom in a bit to a safer level. I did another two with the 75 but it didn't quite touch at the top so I won't count them. Got to get them pec's swole :).

And that was it. Here's the best part: I did all this having only had two eggs, half a glass of oj, and two cherry tomatoes. Energy was fine. Strength was fine. If this sounds familiar, it is because it is the warrior diet.

For the uninitiated the warrior diet involves eating very little during the day, and having all of your food in a big feast at night. I did it wed/thur/fri last week and took the weekend off. I am back on it today. This may sound a little crazy, but head on over to Iron addicts and check out the threads on there. I am doing it from a fat loss standpoint. IA says that for him at least, the fat loss rivals keto and he can get away with a lot more calories than keto. You also get to eat plenty of carbs. My only problem is that I can't afford all the EAA's and BCAA's that IA and those guys are doing. The "diet" doesn't actually call for this, but obviously it would help stave off catabolism. I'm going to see how I get by just eating some eggs a couple of times a day with the fruits and veggies. This week and last strength was fine, and my weight isn't dropping like a stone or anything. Friday's 30 minute jog was the best cardio session I've had in years.

Another big thing about it is that your energy should go up beacuse you aren't digesting food all day. I always get sleepy after dinner.

Well there it is. Rest assured if strength caves or I lose muscle fast, I'll be off it again. It doesn't happen with everyone else though, and why would it? You're still getting in your calories, just in a different way. Personally I also find it easy to deal with the hunger, which is only sporadic and not constant.

Anyway that is it for today. Cardio tommorow...

Quagmire
 

Fuglydude

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I think the warrior diet is a bit extreme, but one of my buddy's has had some crazy results from it... Mind you he's a very committed regionally known natural bodybuilder. Keep us posted on how you do w/ it. I like food too much to not eat during the day!

Are you on any thermogenics right now? They may help you to drop the last little bit of weight prior to getting to single digits. How many effective grams of EPA/DHA, and other omega 3's are you getting?

Its nice to have other big dudes in the gym... problem is in my gym, all the big dudes are pu$$ies... they just work arms and chest, and stare at me when I pull 400+ or squat 300+ ATG outside the cage or do powercleans w/ what they deadlift with... Ah well, left the weak phuckers stare, it just fires me up even more!

Keep it up man, those Kroc rows are sick!
 

Rampage1

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I don't understand the warrior diet. Is not eating all day and leaving your main meal at night not a surefire way of putting on weight by slowing down your metabolism and then piling in the food to just lie in your gut all night before you sleep. It seems to go against everything I have learned in the last few years..can someone explain to me the basic premise as to how this works?
 

Quagmire911

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Fugly:

I actually think a normal 6 meal a day approach is far more "extreme". On this "diet" you aren't chained to the kitchen. Not that I've done 6 a day in a long time. The only potential problem is hunger, which I've not found to be an issue.

I'm only on 5 grams of fish oil a day at the moment, so 5 capsules. Not ideal, but I can't afford much at the moment. I did take some green tea today, it is dirt cheap.

I've seen that guy squat/dead 500/600+ before too. I spotted him on a 352lb bench once.

Rampage:

This is exactly what all the guys on Ironaddicts were thinking. Ironaddict said there is no way he'd have done it 5 years ago. His priorites changed however and he tried it. Other's on the board tried it. They are all now "believers". It seems for maintaining muscle mass, losing fat, and keeping metabolism happy, the diet ticks all the boxes. Not many diets keep the metabolism happy. IronAddict does say he doesn't think it will be the best approach for gaining, but you can build some muscle on it. Not everyone wants to be 250+ though.

Not to mention all the extra energy that everyone that does it is reporting. I have to say I have noticed a certain alertness at some points. Not to mention food smells fantastic. So far I think it looks like it will be easier to stick to as well, if you can manage the hunger.

Anyway...

Tuesday

Cardio:

Treadmill 30 minutes 6.1mph- This was maybe a little harder than the other day. Just before I started my stomach was feeling iffy, I have no idea why. Felt a little funny afterwards too. Not sure what it was. Got through it alright though.

Weight was 176.8lbs this morning. My waist seems to be stuck around 34".

That's all for today. Probably back in on Thursday. Until then...

Quagmire
 

Rampage1

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I see, we'll if IA gave it the all clear then id say your good to go. Im in the same phase as yourself, i.e. trying to get down to a nice bodyfat level while still gaining strength, but I think I will just do it by low intensity early morning cardio and a low carb diet. Hard to beat the old faithful method :p
 

Quagmire911

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Just watched an informative video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM&annotation_id=annotation_715349&feature=iv

Seems that glass of orange juice may have been doing far more damage than I cared to admit. But damn orange juice tastes good.

I've pretty much plateaued since December with fat loss. Granted some of the time I gave up on it, but I did try at others. I added orange juice back in thinking "1-2 glasses won't hurt". Turns out that was fuc*ing stupid.

Need to watch and not eat too much fruit as well. I have seen this mentioned.

Gym tommorow...

Quagmire
 

Fuglydude

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Haha... Ya, I totally agree w/ the orange juice thing. I can drink gallons of the stuff! I think its great to mix w/ whey isolate post-WO or in the AM to give you some extra high GI carbs to elicit a nice insulin response. Obviously if you're trying to get shredded you'll want to cut out the OJ completely. I think you'll be fine as long as you consume low GI fruits like berries, apples, etc.

That's cool that big in your gym pulls/pushes that kinda weight. I've NEVER seen a 600 lb deadlift in my gym, and the guys that lift in the 500 range are all 240-250... You don't see any guys my size, or under 200 lbs pulling in the 500 range. Its also rare to see any below parallel squatting w/ > 300 lbs. Its your typical commercial gym: fair number of hot girls in tight "work out clothes" and lots guys ogling them working out chest and arms incessantly!
 

kbear0101

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that was a good video/lecture...didnt intend on watching the entire thing but it was very informative...giving lil more thought as to what goes in my body...might want to post it in the main forum
 

Quagmire911

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Thursday

Alright workout today. Here it is:

DB oh press 24x3 28x3 32kgx6 (70lbs)- This was alright.

Chins Bwx5 +10kgx6 Bwx5- Not really feeling this or oh press.

Deadlifts 120x3 140x3 157.5kgx7 (347lbs)- Pretty good set. Need to keep it up. Next week I can do either 165 or 167.5. I need 6 or 5 to PR. I'll be keeping that in mind. Grip managed today, but it needs strengthening. This is around my best with this weight.

Kneeling rolloutsx10- Still seemed to have some residual soreness from last week or something else, so I left it here.

Hip machines 70kg? 1x15- Just keeping whatever muscles this works active.

HIIT- Treadmill 12.5mphx6x45s Incline 2.0- Did this with a slight incline and added another interval. F***ing hell this sucked. I was close to being sick by the end of the last one. I reckon 7 would have done it. On one of the intervals, 3 or 4, I only did 40s. Before that was 60s rest, after was 120s. If this doesn't lead to fat loss, I give up. I was dead for around 15 minutes afterwards then recovered. Just as well I've been doing some cardio recently.

And that was all. As I said above, I'm not feeling chins or press at the moment. Maybe a change is in order. Deads felt pretty good, it just feels heavy. Just got to bulldozer through the weight. I think I've been puss*ing out to much on deads recently. Time to go balls out on them and claw my way into new territory. High time I repped 400+.

Kept the volume pretty low today cause I knew I was doing the HIIT afterwards. Might do some curls or something if I am up tommorow, not decided if I'll go yet.

That's all for today, until next time...

Quagmire
 
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