People need to stop fooling themselves

[elvis aint dead yet]

The problem with most of the people on this site is, they pretend to be older guys when in fact, most are still in high school.


It's a lot easier to attract a girl who is a 9 if you see her everyday in one of your classes.

If your only average in looks, which the majority of people are, then your personality can show.

As you get older, you do not see the same girls everyday. And if you do, most of america does not work with Models everyday.

As for showing your charm and personality at clubs, thats how you can tell most of the people on this site have never visited a real club.

Most clubs you can not even hear yourself think, yet alone somebody else talk. So the theory of winning over a 9 in a happening club with below average looks is just plain BS.

If the bartender can barely hear you order a drink, that 9 is not going to hear all your charming comments.

It's the late 1980's high school movie syndrome. So many movies during that time had all these geeks and below average young guys winning over the hot cheerleaders.

MOst of the guys during that time laughed at these ridiculous movies.

The problem now seems that most people can't accept reality.

While everybody has different tastes in men, women, culture, fun, etc, a girl who is a 9 or 10 will rarely ever be rated a 1, 2,3, or 4 by another guy. It just does not happen. Yes, maybe she's only a 6,7,or 8 to me, I doubt she'd be a 4.

While you can't feel down and should improve your attitude, by not accepting the fact that LOOKS DO MATTER, you are becoming nothing more then a pathetic man who spends way too much time on the internet.

 

[Craig Reeves]

Good post, Phobeus

You don't need to be extremely handsome or rich to attract women. You only need to just dress and groom well, take care of yourself, and practice good hygeine and you'll be perfectly fine.

The only time that looks will effect you is when you are unusually ugly or unusually attractive. That's it.....no matter what a woman's "HB rating" is.

Some of y'all are acting like looks are the only things that create attraction, here. And that you have to BE a 9 in order to date one.

That's BULL****!

If that was the case, why the hell are so many "good looking" guys over here asking for help ALL the time? How come I can name you like 7 or 8 good looking guys that I know, and can't land dates to save their lives!?

Thinking that your looks are going to be the only determining factor in your dating success is straight-up PVSSY!

And thinking that the only reason you got that hot-babe (if you get her) is because of some bogus theory from some un-true theory is even more BS. And the fact that it came from some snotty ass feminist makes it the highest form of BS.

If that was the case, then why the hell do I see so many average guys with these hot women!? And many of them MARRYING them!?

Why the hell does Motley Crue sleep with so many HOT celebrity women that have more money than even THEY do? (and most women will tell you that Motley Crue isn't a good looking band, btw.)

Looks aren't everything! That's just some pathetic excuse to throw in the towel after ONE woman turns you down because of your looks.

Just make yourself look presentable and you'll be just fine.

 

[gentleman193]

If you are dealing with a Beautiful Woman chances are she'll marry you if you're ugly and AFC. I've seen that again and again. Call it Brooke Shields/Billy Joel syndrome. Or Julia Roberts/Lyle Lovette syndrome. Or call it: Beauty and the AFC Beast. But I've seen it happen again and again.

So if you're ugly and you want a BW you can get it if you go for it. But . . . the sex will suck -- nobody fukks like an Ugg, they fukk like they might never do it again -- and the spoiled BW attitude will ruin the entire rest of your life, and probably your children's, too, based on my own experience.

But if you are dealing with an HB who is not a BW, then what they want is a MAN. My sister is an HB but not a BW (looks nothing like me, don't worry; she got the Swedish genes from my mom, I got the Polish ones from my dad, he he) and her guys were as follows:

0. A whole bunch of AFC's in HS/College who were going to med/law/engineering school and wanted to marry her by their 3rd date. (She still visits them at their fancy beach houses/condos etc, they cook her meals, take her out on the town, and babysit her kid. She says they're "so sweet." Aww, gee)

1. Stone-silent Motorcycle Racer Dude.

2. 82nd Airborne Combat Assault Specialist, also runner up in the Enlisted Men's Boxing Tournament. She married this one. His bachelor party consisted of a drunken bow-hunting expedition followed by carving up the carcass by hand.

3. FBI Anti-Terrorism Special Agent. Wears a Glock and keeps an M-16 in the vehicle. Talk about James Bond.

And come to think of it, all of these guys are pretty good looking, too.

So, the moral of the story is, if you want to fukk my sister . . .

No, wait . . . the moral of the story is, if you *are* fukking my sister you can probably kick my a** AND model GQ. And you definitely have experience killing things and jumping out of airplanes.

But, watch out, I'll crush your balls at Ping Pong.

So, fukk me. I'll take another uptight Asian chick or an Ugg anyday. At least I don't have to live with my sister . . . the fools

 

[jakethasnake]

*shakes head*.... Wake UP.

I apologize if the following has already been said or if it sounds like I'm abruptly introducing a new idea with disregard for the flow of discussion in this thread. But here goes:


Regarding the very first post -- OF COURSE looks are the only thing that really matters - especially at first when people meet!

That's just the way it is - if you're not good looking - get rich or influential fast. It's the only way. Charm definately helps (but not as much as you HOPE), but if you're charming yet still with few friends and even less influence (money/power), you're jacked in your game. That's a guarantee. I don't buy this premise of making a mighty mountain (getting tons of knockouts) out of a pile of sand (a fat/skinny body, mediocre personality and life) that hopeful (and equally desperate) lemmings spout like gospel on this site. It's literally Delusions of Grandeur.


And regarding the TOTAL irony behind the whiny tone in the initial post - I also find it incredibly hilarious. "Girls are just as superficial as us... WTF??" LOL..... Why is it funny to me? Because I find it highly ironic - and irony is often funny.


Think about it - this whole issue is also really a matter of karma and perspective. Most of you shallow bytches here only want perfect physical specimens - some moron actually had the audacity to admit it in one the recent threads. What's best is, he admitted to his own less than inspiring looks. HAHA...


The point is that guys who completely judge women on looks 1000% DESERVE to get turned down based on looks, if he doesn't fit the said woman's criteria. All's fair in love and war. It really doesn't make sense that such a shallow man be bitter when he gets a taste of what's coming to him. I say this from the point of an egalitarian - not one of an Uncle-Tom woman ass-kisser.



The only difference between guys who get very hot girls and average girls as a general rule is that the guys who get hot girls are good looking. Absolutely true. Some of you hardcore DJ SS-Nazi-type fanatics will foam at the mouth with rage after reading that, but it's true. What can I say. *shrugs*


But there's a catch.


Looks really do matter for both sexes especially during the first 30 years of life -- then when men come into their prime in terms of maturity and earning potential -- that is when looks start to matter less. Yes - like many people say, it IS a man's world - just not in the way you thought. In today's castrated pseudo-fag metro-sexual society, it is a woman's world for the first 30 years - they hold the fresh, pretty puzzy, so they get to dictate when and WHOM they're gonna hand it to. Of course, younger men can manipulate women and *cope* adequately in the meantime. That is what the DJ schtick is about, IMHO.


THEN after 30 it's time for men to take what's theirs. That's how it works, in general.


And by the way, you ask, where does it leave the 30+ guys who are either fat, weak, poor, boring - or all of the above? They don't have a good chance. It's simple. It's survival of the fittest. Sorry to break up the group hug, all you fat/weak/socially awkward hopefuls.


I'm not taunting, just being so honest that it seems I'm trying to pick a fight. I gave you honest answers rooted in some general truth, not spiteful attacks against any individuals.

 

[PuertoRican_Lover]

Jay,

Woman who are referring to other men as "hotties"
or talking about men's asses are wh@res and yes this would include most american women. So the point in your thread is correct, if and only if you are talking about wh@res. So I guess you are talking about most american women

Women value other things more besides a man's looks - sense of humor is big - personality - intelligence - job - station in life - power- his manliness (courage) - money - notoriety - agressiveness - how he exudes confidence and conviction on issues - his physical strength - his height - his moral and spiritual strength (wh@res don't care about this) - his 'stability' for future marriage (they don't like gamblers , drug addicts, violent rages, insensitivity or disrespect towards others) - a man who is athletic - a man that is clean and keeps himself well groomed - a man who speaks and expresses himself well , etc.. on and on and on!!

WOMEN DO NOT THINK LIKE MEN OR VALUE WHAT WE VALUE TO THE SAME DEGREE!!! HOWEVER; WH@RES DO THINK LIKE MEN AND THIS IS WHAT YOU ARE REFERRING TO IN THIS POST!!!

Men value looks beyond all else to such a greater degree than woman BECAUSE IT IS THE MALE WHO NEEDS TO GET EXCITED TO GET HIS PENIS ERECT AND NOT THE WOMAN"S PENIS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is a physical as well as a mental process whose arousal is mainly based on physical attraction (excluding of course homosexuals and those who practice beastiality)

This is extremely important for procreation purposes so we are inherently made to think and behave differently as men, and are made to put more value on phyisical traits (face, breast, @ss, more than women! Every DJ must understand this and quit comparing yourself to how women think or behave. The women that do think like us men are most likely to be wh@res and/or lesbians. So do not say women think like this - just say wh@res think like this or do such in such then your point in this post would be valid.

 

[MysteryWoman]

Just want to say you can't start practicing double standards and calling women superficial b!tches just because many reject you because they don't like your look. I mean guys on here are permantly refering to their girls as numbers, to enhance their egos.

 

[madgame]

I mean guys on here are permantly refering to their girls as numbers, to enhance their egos.

Yes and I hate it when they do that lol

 

[Jay Fiedler]

Puerto Rican lover--I dont know what kind of woman youve been hanging out with. Really. Some of the most beautiful, well educated, and wholesome girls I know when in the company of other girls have no problem talking about a guys physique or how hot he is. Certainly doenst make them a whoore. Do you only hang out with nuns?

Some of you are missing my original point. Which is I see on this site alot of self-proclaimed average or below average guys who come on here, get all excited and confident after they learn some new techniques, go out and try and apply these to 8's and 9's, get rejected, then have the nerve to call the women beootches for rejecting them. When at the exact same time I read from alot of guys how they rejected 5's, 6's, and 7 girls because they werent physcially attracted enough to them. Its a double standard. Women value physcial attractiveness just as much as men do, they just don't come out and admit it like men do, unless perhaps their just talking woman to woman. So my point is the average or below average men are going to have to face reality and start going after women in their own class of ratings to consistently score. Unless you are famous or rich, the odds of a below average man attracting a hottie just isnt very high. I'm sorry.

 

[coldcoal]

Saying average guys can date high quality women I think is no different than saying an average man could amass great wealth in short time. Of course it's possible, but that doesn't mean it will happen for every average-looking guy who has a great persistance to keep trying.

I am certainly not one to say to any man that he cannot achieve what he puts his mind to. I will say, however, that if you're an average looking guy who is here on Sosuave for a reason, it is not a great theory to put a lot of faith into.

We have a health forum for a reason. We tell each other to work out, to eat right. We tell each other to brush our teeth and comb our hair and dress better. We say all of these things to make ourselves more attractive to women. And we do it because looks matter. We talk about social proof; to been seen a certain way by women who don't even know our names yet. We talk about walking taller, walk in like you own the place, don't stand over in the corner... there is a tremendous amount of visual-related advice around here. And a lot of it is prelude to meeting that woman.


Sure, once you get your foot into the door, personality counts for a lot, but frustrated chumps often depend on the same idea....

 

[Craig Reeves]

coldcoal, you have a point, but you're talking more on the lines of how you carry yourself....when *I* say looks, I meant just physical appearance.

But if your talking about looks as if it were the entire visual SPECTRUM, then YES looks certainly matter!

But taking care of yourself, eating right, working out, and dressing and grooming right, etc. is not as much to attract women than it is for the person doing all of these things.

Taking care of yourself makes you feel better because you're being taken care of(when you're being taken care of, it feels good). The right foods have vitamins and minerals that will make you feel better and think better. Dressing and grooming right will give you more respect and confidence with yourself. Excersing will not only make you look better, but more importantly make you FEEL like you look better and are making progress - not only that, but working out is a GREAT way to relieve stress, and just knowing that you ARE trying to improve your look will make you take more pride in your EXISTING looks. I HIGHLY recommend these things.

Body langauge, eye contact, and voice tone are FAR more important than physical appearance. But if you are referring Looks to these things OTHER than just physical appearance, then looks CERTAINLY DO matter.

 

[Jay Fiedler]

"Body langauge, eye contact, and voice tone are FAR more important than physical appearance. "

This may be the single most erroneous and way off statement I have ever seen on this forum. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If what you say is true Craig, then almost every guy who applied those concepts would be scoring with Hotties, and we all know that just isnt true. Looks are SO much more improtant than the three things you mentioned. Its not even open for debate imo. And if what you say is true, then all the 4 and 5 girls that we see in the world that apply those concepts would be being hit on by ALL the guys, and we all know that isnt true either.

Wow, I'm really surprised you could actually believe such a thing Craig.

 

[coldcoal]

Craig,

I understand your point, but pure physical appearance has non-physical implications as well. A woman who looks at a man who has a toned physique is seen as a man who cares about life enough to take care of himself, irregardless of what the man's own feelings do for the way he carries himself. This is why a photo of an attractive man can yield the interest of attractive women. It is why a piece of art provides emotion to a person viewing it.

Yes, we strive for good health to achieve good feeling, but the emotions gained that can attract women only act to support what was assumed from physical appearance alone. Like in my example above, a great body assumes a form of good self-esteem. When the woman experiences the man's actual good self-esteem, it supports her assumption, which tells the woman it is ok to continue pursuing her interest in him.

This is why people who are ugly who think they are beautiful, or people who are beautiful who think they are ugly are found to be somewhat annoying or strange, like "big beautiful women" and annorexic models.

It is the same for average guys. There is a breaking point in which a high self-esteem will begin to work against you. That breaking point is based on pure physical looks.

 

[iqqi]

i guess it is a good thing that there is no universal standard of beauty or good looks.

 

[coldcoal]

What is beautiful and what is not doesn't matter. What matters is that a person will begin to look wierd and dillusional if they appear to think of themselves in a way that is too far off base from what they really are.

Being dillusional is unattractive, irregardless of where you may fall on the attraction scale.

 

[THA REALNESS]

A good personality will help with certain women sometyimes ...just like it with guys .


However at the end of the day we want the best-looking broads we could get our hands on so why should we think they want different.

 

[Big Pappy]

I've heard it said a thousand times that beauty was in the eye of the beholder. So, I always said, "If that's true, I must be the best looking man in the house."

Yes, it is true: Generally speaking, men do not find warts on the forehead or abdomens hanging below the cortch line very attractive. The same can be said of men towards women.

How many of you at one point in your life looked at someone else and marveled at how confidently they carried themselves?

When I was a kid, I used to be amazed to see how my father would just go up to some stranger and talk for thirty minutes on some topic that he was interested in. During parties ( the over 40 years old kind - where people drink moderately and leave around 9:30 or 10:00) he was always the story teller. It used to captivate me. He was a professor at the University. Women were always flirting with him. (best of my knowledge, he behaved himself)
Now, my father, an educated, but otherwise neanderthal type in appearance, with more hair on his back than many of you have on your chest, married my mother. She's older now, but I saw her high school and college photos. Not too shabby.

Yes, women are attracted to good looks. But, they are also attracted to power. To status. To class. To money. To intelligence. To honesty. (When a woman says she wants honesty from a man, she doesn't mean simply for you to not lie to her. She means for you to also be consistent with who you are and how you behave under certain conditions.)

Me, I'm 5'10", I have a beer gut, I drive a 94 Taurus SHO and I'm a gradutre student in computer science. I also get more action on average than any of my friends. Granted, most of them are also geeks, so when I say more than average, the data set isn't too competitive.

Am I good looking? How should I know? I must be halfway decent, because women aren't screaming and running away when I show up. I'd say I'm about a 6 or 7 in looks. But, overall, humor, class, style, status, wealth, etc. I'm damn near a 8.5 or 9.

I don't date women per se. I meet them somewhere and we "hang out". If we have fun, I'll lay the mack down and make out. (or get rejected - it does happen)

However, the ladies I hang out with, on a physical scale used to all be 8's and 9's. What I learned though, is that the really pretty girls all have problems. Migraines, or gout, or some sort of physical dependency on medication. Give me the chunky, flirty happy girl (5-6-7)over your precious HB9's any day of the week.

I seek women who are happy with who they are. I do not care to expend my energy seeking women who would make a good trophy at my side.

And, of course, they should also be able to balance their own checkbook.

But, I digress.
You really want to get down to it, yes, women do love the eye candy. But that is not what attracts them. Confidence (not arrogance) control (not control freak) and charm (not a suck up) attract them.

 

[Juan_Man]

OH MAN!!!!!! NOT AGAIN!!!!!! What is this, Looks versus Personality, Volume 47 ?

Look, I just have two words: Clay Aiken

Enough said.

 

[joey37]

It was Christy Brinkley and Billy Joel

 

[MVPlaya]

Fiedler,

Are you ugly and jaded? The biggest player I ever knew weighed 300 pounds (and no, not muscle). He was married 3 times, all 3 wives were HB9's and 2 were Ivy Leagues, the other an Oxford grad, and to my understanding (I met the 2 Ivy Leagues) they all had amazing personalities. They divorced him all three times because he cheated on them but all of them said they still loved him.And this guy was NOT rich, although extremely intelligent. Why did this 300 pound fatass get these women?
HE HAD MAD GAME!!!!!!

What you're writing is dumb. In fact, when I look at the guys I know and who they date I notice that looks aren't the factor at all. I see hot girls with not too good looking guys and vice versa. Women are not as shallow as us guys. Whereas we make sure they have nice face/ass/legs/breasts, women make sure he's the PERSON they are looking for. When I go out to the club scenes I can spot the players because these guys have that edge, that killer instinct, which sets them above the nice guys and the pretty boys, these players know women.

 

[Slickster]

Any guy can get any girl and vice versa.

Looks do matter, but it all depends on the situation.

The REAL question is "How long is it going to last?"

Sure relationships happen where the couples are mismatched in the looks department. But how long is the better looking person going to stick around when times get tough? Especially when there are other better looking people around.

I consider myself to be an 8 or 9. I've been won over by a HB6 with a great personality. I actually was involved in a happy LTR with her. However the entire time there was a constant reminder.
I could do better.

Same thing happens with the HB9 dating the guy who is a six. He may keep her interested for a time. However, in any relationship times get tough. She's going to look in the mirror and think about all the hot guys that have been hitting on her and say to herself "I don't have to put up with this sh!t"

Exceptions do happen but in the end people usually end up with someone comparable to themselves on the looks scale.