I have been meaning to make a post about that one new country song by Carrie Underwood. Here's the chorus:Luthor Rex said:
Can you even IMAGINE the backlash there would be if a MALE singer put lyrics like that in a song?
people are good
- Thread starter joekerr31
- Start date
Isn't it amazing how women [tips hat to iqqi] just LOVE to talk about how great it is and how right it is and how the world would be a better place if there were more good deeds, yet when something is done for them by a man it is looked upon with disdain!aliasguy said:
I got news for you. EVERYTHING PEOPLE DO THEY DO FOR A REASON. Most of the time when someone does something for you it is with the expectation that you owe them something. It isn't even a conscious thought most of the time, but that's how it is.iqqi said:
The vast, vast majority of "nice" things that do not happen out of kindness.
Exactly. You can't have a meanigful discussion with iqqi, she's a little Wyldfire. And like most all women she will make counterarguments that superficially seem valid but that go off on a tangent and aren't really valid under close examination. It's like going on a wild goose chase :crazy:.Luthor Rex said:
Yeah totally true and the concept of reciprocity isn't really a bad thing and doesn't say people are actually bad per se. It's just saying that people don't do "good" generally for the sake of being good and with no other motivation. A person is doing or is bad when they refuse to reciprocate a good for receipt of good or in other words are using (sounds like iqqi) and even worst of all when they reciprocate bad for no reason or for good things they received from someone (sounds like a lot of women).STR8UP said:
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ketostix said:
and this is the key to this discussion. obviously everyone has the potential to be good, bad and indifferent. just like a house cat is good to its owners, but bad to the mouse
heck, even non living things have such potential. carbohydrates are good, but if you eat to much of them they are bad.
i just took it for granted that we all acknowledge that all things have such potentiality.
but what im saying is that more people than not CHOOSE to be kind, caring, good. most people do not choose to be selfish sociopaths.
but even more important is the effect our behavior has on people. if people have a preference towards being kind, caring and good, what actualizes that preference.
so for instance, our house cats treat us well because we treat them well. and is this the behavior we can expect from MOST people if we were to give them the benefit of the doubt and treat them well?
hence the eistein quote. if you believe people are good (generally speaking), then do you start to interact with the universe with that assumption. and when you do, does it radically change the experience you begin to have with the world around you?
part of this conversation is the question do you really need confidence or rather, do you merely need to see the world and the peopel in it as generally more good than bad. and if you believe that most people are good, that they will be kind to you over being mean to you, then do you go out into the world with an almost childlike enjoyment of the peopel and things you encounter. and in doing so, do you interact with the world in a 'confident' manner.
but not confidence in the sense of courage. no confidence in the warrior sense. but rather, confidence in a holistic sense. that you are a part of a beautiful thing - this organism we call earth - and that it is filled with interesting and kind people to get to know.
i've spoken a lot about fear in the past, and how fear makes people make really bad decisions. but if you believe that most people in the world are selfish and will take advantage of you if you let them, i don't see how you can avoid thinking that the universe is then a hostile place.
and while life is hostile on a biological level (for instance we get sick because viruses attack us), are people, in general, kind.
and of course, not all are. many are indifference. many don't care what happens to others and they only care about their own lot in life.
but im finding, and starting to believe, that there are WAY more people out there who, as part of their own self prescribed mandate in life, make a conscious effort to be kind to people. im not sure if they are the majority or not, but i think there are none the less a lot of them.
but i also believe that our view determines what we see. and if we feel we live in a hostile world, i think we will be much more attuned to the hostile peopel around us. whereas if we feel we live in a friendly world, we will be more attuned to those people.
anyway, i do feel as though (perhaps because of the media showering us with images of death and crime etc every night) that a lot of people (especially on here) think that most peopel (especially women) will screw you over.
i also think its much easier to negatively behaviorally condition someone than positively condition them. for instance, if you eat pizza one night and get food poisoning, you will be severly adverse to eating pizza again. even though the next pizza likely isn't poisonous. because you will remember 'last time i ate pizza i almost died. im never goign to eat that sh*t again!"
and i wonder if a minor portion of the population, toxic people if you will, have negatively conditioned many others. and that many people now think that most people are selfish and will screw you over, when in reality, most peopel won't. most people will treat you with teh same kind of respect and kindness that they would wish to be treated with.
im not saying this is the case, but im beginning to think it is.
Interceptor
Master Don Juan
I believe that Confidence breeds Courage, and Courage breeds FAITH.............
And the three combined fuels RESOLVE.
And the three combined fuels RESOLVE.
well this definitely describes business.STR8UP said:
and yes, in personal relationships i think those who do kind things for you expect that you will reciprocate and treat them kindly in return. that only seems rational to me.
i mean, after all, if they were doing kind things for you, and you turned around and treated them like crap, they would be idiots to continue being taken advantage of.
but i dont believe many of these peopel are 'keeping score'. i dont think every time they do something nice for you that they make a little mental note and put a check mark in a column and compare saying 'well, i've done 8 nice things for str8up this month, and he's only done 2 for me. im getting ripped off.'
morever, generally speaking, i dont think people go out into the world thinking 'who can i take advantage of today?"
i see endless examples of people being kidn and nice to each other all the time. and they don't have to do this, because there are lots of peopel who don't. but some people do, while others don't. and that says something - it says its a choice and that MANY people are choosing to be kind and caring towards others.
This is a system that has evolved that allows people to operate efficiently within society.joekerr31 said:
Whether you realize if or not, both you and the other party are making a (mostly) unconscious checklist. This allows for people to assist others with the implication of them returning the favor when they are in need.
Is this always the case? Probably not always but I will guarantee you it happens more often than you realize. And it isn't just in business.
I believe it's true that a few rotten apples spoil the bushel. I believe most negative or bad things that happend to someone can be contributed to others defaming them. That is things like slander, gossiping, backstabbing, c0ckblocking, player hating, ruining your reputation however you want to define it or however it might be constituted. For example, if it's a girl involved someone will try to ****block. If it involve employment it may be to keep you from getting a promotion or even to get you fired.
See most people are not "bad" or they're at least indifferent towards another person. But you will always find one bad person in any group who will defame you to others in the group and the whole group while initially may have been indifferent will generally go along with it, basically group think. Acquantances who are indifferent towards you will almost always agree with the defamation, but even friends can see you in a lower light after listening to derogatory gossip.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Well you obviously missed the part where I said random and strangers.STR8UP said:
I'm not keeping tally of any random strangers I did something nice for, what an absurd idea.
And when I witness a "random act of kindness" I highly doubt that it is going on some "score card", as those people may never see each other again.
Not only that, but I don't believe in karma either, or god. So it isn't going on some great cosmic score card, IMO, either.
And when someone does something nice for me, WHY would I look at them with disdain? Once again, you are projecting your own interactions with the specific women who choose to be in your life, onto me. Good job, but the description doesn't fit.
NOTE:And yes, if some guy does something "nice" and obviously expects some return favor, even though he is a stranger (ie we just met at the bar, and he "nicely" buys me a drink, especially without asking first), then he gets disdain, and a creepy label for his expectations. because that was not "nice". And it has been explained over and over again why it isn't nice, but it seems you keep sticking to it as your ideal of nice.
I don't know....why don't YOU answer that since you are supposedly a woman?iqqi said:
I am relatively sure that the vast majority of men on this board AND out on the street would agree with me when I say "Doing nice things for women will get you NOWHERE".
Gerard-890
Banned
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Yes! Stru8p I do agree with you, now IqqI why don't you answer the question as why does that happen?
I mean just look at the field? The best, purest, quality chicks always seem to go for guys that are just the lowest form of thug-type of guys, then for some reason the girls don't see those guys as thugs?
Beyonce is with Jay-Z.
Out of all the guys in the world, why Jay-Z? And the girls seem to really, deeply, love these guys too. It's that deep love that I wish I could acheive, unfortunately the furthees I get is a lay, which at the end of the day really is nothing but two people masterbating on each other then going back home.
I mean just look at the field? The best, purest, quality chicks always seem to go for guys that are just the lowest form of thug-type of guys, then for some reason the girls don't see those guys as thugs?
Beyonce is with Jay-Z.
Out of all the guys in the world, why Jay-Z? And the girls seem to really, deeply, love these guys too. It's that deep love that I wish I could acheive, unfortunately the furthees I get is a lay, which at the end of the day really is nothing but two people masterbating on each other then going back home.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Originally Posted by iqqi
And when someone does something nice for me, WHY would I look at them with disdain? Once again, you are projecting your own interactions with the specific women who choose to be in your life, onto me. Good job, but the description doesn't fit
And what does being a woman have to do with it? OH, that's right. We are all the same, so I could answer for ALL OF US.
And since my answer is what it is, I guess that means that all women appreciate the same things that I do.
^^I bet that everything I just said... won't make any sense to you.
And when someone does something nice for me, WHY would I look at them with disdain? Once again, you are projecting your own interactions with the specific women who choose to be in your life, onto me. Good job, but the description doesn't fit
Well, geez, STR8UP, it seemed simple to me that I meant that I wouldn't (look at someone who did something nice for me with disdain).STR8UP said:
And what does being a woman have to do with it? OH, that's right. We are all the same, so I could answer for ALL OF US.
And since my answer is what it is, I guess that means that all women appreciate the same things that I do.
^^I bet that everything I just said... won't make any sense to you.
Out on the street is NOT the same as on this board, lol! It is like the twilight zone sometimes on here. I don't mean that in a good "I have seen the light" kind of way either. The board was great years ago, and there is good stuff to be found by those bygone posters, but NOW this board will get you nowhere good way too fast, if you buy into the petty group think that is running rampant.STR8UP said:
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Gerard-890 said:
YEAH... lol. Those chicks SURE ARE the best, purest, and quality.
It is obvious why you are choosing the wrong chicks. You are delusional!
Yea, cause the "good" girls don't go for those kinds of guys. Yeeeaaaaa, riiiiiight.....iqqi said:YEAH... lol. Those chicks SURE ARE the best, purest, and quality.
It is obvious why you are choosing the wrong chicks. You are delusional!
iqqi
Master Don Juan
I actually thought about what you said some more, Gerard.
A lot of "thug" types have really good game. Not only that, but they have an image of being alpha, with money, and nice things. And not desperate. They pull chicks because of their image and their game.
Sometimes they pull "good girls", but those good girls are usually pretty blonde. (I mean vacant in the brains department). They are young, naive, and stupid. And usually very unhappy. They are the female equivalent of AFC.
The usual girls that the thugs pull are the girls that will only go after the thugs. These chicks and quality, to not mix, lol. Sorry, its true. Their morals, principles, and way of thinking is pretty shallow and foolish.
Both those chicks I described, are not what you want. They definately aren't the best, and the quality... lacking?? Maybe the first chick I described is pure... but not really. Just immature and naive, at best!
As for Beyonce and Jay z. Jay Z really isn't your average "thug" type. He is probably one of the most intelligent men of this era. He is the Humphrey Bogart of hip hop, lol. Before that, he was a drug kingpin. I feel sorry for Beyonce, who has been described as slow, and naive. She will never escape his game! And I DO think she is a good person.
A lot of "thug" types have really good game. Not only that, but they have an image of being alpha, with money, and nice things. And not desperate. They pull chicks because of their image and their game.
Sometimes they pull "good girls", but those good girls are usually pretty blonde. (I mean vacant in the brains department). They are young, naive, and stupid. And usually very unhappy. They are the female equivalent of AFC.
The usual girls that the thugs pull are the girls that will only go after the thugs. These chicks and quality, to not mix, lol. Sorry, its true. Their morals, principles, and way of thinking is pretty shallow and foolish.
Both those chicks I described, are not what you want. They definately aren't the best, and the quality... lacking?? Maybe the first chick I described is pure... but not really. Just immature and naive, at best!
As for Beyonce and Jay z. Jay Z really isn't your average "thug" type. He is probably one of the most intelligent men of this era. He is the Humphrey Bogart of hip hop, lol. Before that, he was a drug kingpin. I feel sorry for Beyonce, who has been described as slow, and naive. She will never escape his game! And I DO think she is a good person.
iqqi
Master Don Juan
Well keep being enlightened, great guy. I'm sure that is why you are so "successful" with the strippers and the aging AW's and the foreign chick from years ago that "coulda been the one". And that is also probably why you don't think other kinds of women exist. You know, the kind that aren't after your "image of wealth", for instance.STR8UP said:
Luthor Rex
Master Don Juan
Well, part of the problem is that I'm often sarcastic in my posts and it's not always easy to know when I am being that way. So I guess we can't blame iqqi for that... but I am going to pin the JFK assassination on her.ketostix said:
In a very strict sense iqqi is correct that we could find millions of personal experiences in our everyday lives for something and still be wrong on the issue. If we all lived in some South American or African nations then we'd grow up believing that murder, rape, and torture were just some things you do as a hobby. Unfortunately, we have neither the time nor the resources here at sosuave to assemble a team of crack scientists to do long term studies on these issues. We have to make due with what we have.
"Women don't like nice guys" is one of those things taken for granted here, but I'm not aware of any empirical studies on the issue. So, in a strict sense iqqi would be right in say that 'we can't know this for certain'. Because of the lack of formal data, we have to go on our personal experiences. Largely that means we look for patterns of behavior by watching how often people do things.
It's kinda like the difference in evidential standards in a civil versus a criminal trial. This is how O.J. Simpson was found 'not guilty' in the criminal trial, but was found 'liable' in the civil trial.
Woman, we the jury find thee liable!
Of course ippi also resorted to a typical feminist / female shaming tactic. Men point out behavior by women that injures men and yet, somehow magically, it's actually the man to blame.
As for women having low self-esteem these days, the evidence seems to be on my side:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=755468
Also, all people really are inherently self-interested (selfish) and there's really no serious debate on that: the evidence of evolution has nailed the lid shut on that one. Go read Dawkins' "The Selfish Gene" or Darwin's "Descent of Man" for what's up.
My only issue with women is this: I love them and I'm tired of watching them destroy themselves. But it is women who have betrayed women.
