people are good

[joekerr31]

If I HAD to say good or bad, I would say bad. The only reason for this is because we are SELFISH creatures, no different than any other species on the planet. You can say "Well we don't live in caves anymore, we are beyond that" but you can say whatever you want, when it comes down to it everyone is wired to look out for #1. If we weren't wired that way, our species would have died out within a few generations.

well its one thing to say that we look otu for number 1. but its another to say that this results in bad behavior.

i recently heard a story of a man who was lost in the desert for something like 7 days. on day 5 he was basically as good as dead. then a bunch of nomads found him, took him in, and he lived.

i mean, there was nothing in it for them - they could have just ignored him and no one would have even known. they merely helped him becuase he needed help.

moreover, there are millions of people who volunteer and help those less fortunate.

or when a child goes missing in a neighbourhood and hundreds of people come out and search for days. i mean, they don't HAVE to (and some don't. some stay home and watch desperate housewives).

while yes, i believe there are lots of unenlightened people out there who are selfish, i think there are even more great human beings. but we don't hear their stories every day on the news. their actions go quietly noticed only by those they are helping.

 

[joekerr31]

Anyway people need to wake up.

Believing that humans are inherently good is magical fairytale land type thinking.

Now I don't blame anyone for believing this as we are force fed so much programming growing up and socialization crap its staggering but anyway...

One man's hero is another man's villain.

Selfless acts do not exist.

People do seemingly good things either to score brownie points with their god of choice, because it makes them feel satisfied or because it adheres to their moral code and they want to check off an item for the day.

There is nothing on this earth done for truly selfless reasons.

1. i dont believe this anymore
2. i dont think most people think humans are good. i think most think they aren't, that they are selfish.

3. i don't think its purely about god. i think its perhaps an element of our primitive brain. we are tribal creatures. as such we are programmed to think about more than just ourselves. to think of the tribe as well.

4. i think plenty of things are done for selfless reasons. now, if we consider ANY action to be a selfish action, then obviously all actions become selfish. but let's be realistic in our defintion. a person who performs an act, that benefits another, with no material return, is performing a selfless act. a person who performs an act at great risk to oneself with no material return is performing an altruistic act.

where i live a two kids fell into the river a few years ago. its damn cold up here in canada in the winter, so you can imagine the life and death aspect of this situation.

this guy jumped into the freezing water and pulled one of the kids out. then jumped in for hte second one - unfortunately both he and the second kid drowned.

im sorry, but i just don't see the 'selfishness' in this act.

 

[aliasguy]

Do you lock up your house when you leave?

Do you lock your car at night?

Do you stash your money instead of leaving it out in plain view?

Do you protect yourself with written contracts in important business matters, or just go with a handshake deal?



I really do wish that people were inherently "good." But people are people. They DO stuff. How many times have we told a poster here that his girl is likely f*cking around? We can SMELL it, almost.

I tend to agree with KontrollerX and str8up on this one. You have to open your eyes and accept the world as it is. On the plains of Africa, the weak, slow ones get eaten.

It's ok (and probably GOOD) to have a positive outlook: ABOUT YOURSELF. But, to "decide" that "people are good" is just ASKING for it.

I'm not saying that one should ALWAYS assume the worst, but, good grief, this is the real world. Yes, often people do very nice, helpful things....for selfish or unselfish motives, or both. But SO WHAT? That's great and all, but your brother-in-law might just be getting ready to clean you out in your new joint venture.

The world is a rough place. We live VERY pampered lives in the US. We are spoiled and soft. Makes it easier to believe the Kumbayah stuff.

Do you think Bill Gates, or Donald Trump, or any powerful businessman is sitting around counting on "positive thinking" with regard to how "good" his competitors are as people?

I agree that there are nice folks out there. I know many. But it's just foolish, irresponsible, and, actually UNFAIR (to oneself and others) to buy into the "people are basically good" stuff. It's just asking to be taken advantage of to think this way.

I'm not saying "people are basically bad," either. But open your eyes and live in the real world.

 

[STR8UP]

well its one thing to say that we look otu for number 1. but its another to say that this results in bad behavior.

It DOES result in bad behavior. Reciprocation works well in an organized society, but inevitably there will be people around every corner who are looking to cheat the system

i recently heard a story of a man who was lost in the desert for something like 7 days. on day 5 he was basically as good as dead. then a bunch of nomads found him, took him in, and he lived.

i mean, there was nothing in it for them - they could have just ignored him and no one would have even known. they merely helped him becuase he needed help.

There is ALWAYS something in it for them. Might they be looked upon as a hero in their village?

Another question is what did it COST them to make this accommodation? A couple of meals and some water? I can guarantee they DID NOT do that simply because they were "good" people.

Awhile back I posted about having had to get up in some dudes face to protect a girl I know.

I'm pretty sure I could have taken the drunk ass that was harassing her and her friends, but I only had one other guy and a girl with me, and he had two other buddies.

I could have easily gotten my ass kicked for standing up for some chick who I made out with and rubbed her pu$$y a couple of times. I don't even consider her a friend. But nonetheless, something inside me kicked in and I jumped in between this other dude before things escalated.

I don't attribute this to me being "good". I'm not sure exactly why I did it, but when all was said and done I had three hot ass 21 yr old chicks looking at me like a badass. I'm assuming that it was some kind of male instinct that caused me to act without thinking, but it had nothing whatsoever to do with me being "good".

while yes, i believe there are lots of unenlightened people out there who are selfish, i think there are even more great human beings. but we don't hear their stories every day on the news. their actions go quietly noticed only by those they are helping.

No, the unenlightened are selfish and DELUDED.

Seriously man, it doesn't take an IQ of 140 to realize that the world is inherently selfish.

All that does is skew the world SLIGHTLY in the direction of being "bad" of "unfriendly". Doesn't mean you can't live a happy life, like I said, but you really should take it for what it truly is.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Good people... bad people... I'm the guy with the gun.

“The most important decision we ever make is whether we believe we live in a friendly universe or a hostile universe.”

I understand where you're coming from with this and about how it effects our attitudes.

But the brutal truth is we don't get to 'decide' this – rather the world 'is what it is', and no amount of wishing can make things anything but what they are.

Maybe you're a Christian and that makes you an Original Sin kind of guy. Or maybe you know that Darwin was right – all human behavior is inherently selfish. Perhaps you're of a different tradition that says all human beings are inherently good. In the end it really doesn't matter...

You've got the idea right about having a 'good attitude' about things, but for the wrong reasons. A good attitude will help anyone out a lot in life, if nothing else it will keep you moving through the bad times. In good times it will push you further by making others like you.

If people are good, then fine.

If people are bad, then fine.

It doesn't matter either way. What matters is if you choose to have a good attitude about your life. Yes this is a choice. It's one we can make at any time under any circumstances. We can choose to be happy because you, the real you that lives deep down inside that flesh, cannot be injured by anyone else but you. If someone slips past your defences and you have convinced yourself they can hurt you then they will, but even this is a small thing because you know you can heal yourself again. There is no injury of the 'soul' that need be permanent, unless you allow it to be permanent.*

There are some things in our power, and there are many things that are not. What is not in our power are those things over which we do not hold exclusive control. Some of these things are our health, our fortune, our reputation, our status, and all other such things are not in our power. What is in our power is whatever is directly up to us. Our choices, our will, our opinions, our intentions and all other such things are in our power.

If we choose to place our happiness in those things not up to us, then the world shall own us. Place your happiness in a woman's love? Then she owns you. Place your happiness in your reputation? Then that owns you as well. As someone's signature here says “Whatever you can't say 'no' to, is your master”. Is this what you wish? To be a slave to what the man down the street thinks of you? To be a slave to what a woman can give you?

Such a life does not befit a man. If you wish to live such a slavish life, the cut your d!ck off now, you won't be needing it anymore.

If we choose to place our happiness in those things that are up to us, then happiness becomes a choice. This is not the ecstatic high of a drug, or the ego thrill of some 'conquest'. This is the serenity that invulnerability brings. This is about “how you played the game”, because that is all which is in your power.






*Yes the flesh can be so destroyed that the soul is injured. Before my grandfather's death he was under the memory robbing sway of Alzheimer's. By that point, I wasn't looking at my grandfather any longer, I was looking at the thing that killed him. I say this because I know someone in the crowd will jump up and down “Oooo! Oooo! I have found an exception to your law of the invulnerability to the so-called soul” because they can't understand the limits of a metaphor.

 

[STR8UP]

Do you lock up your house when you leave?

Do you lock your car at night?

Do you stash your money instead of leaving it out in plain view?

Do you protect yourself with written contracts in important business matters, or just go with a handshake deal?

Once again, someone comes along and UNDERSTANDS and is able to articulate the same things I am thinking.

I really do wish that people were inherently "good." But people are people. They DO stuff. How many times have we told a poster here that his girl is likely f*cking around? We can SMELL it, almost.

Yea, if anything we should all be able to realize by now that women aren't falling all over themselves to GIVE us "love" or give us anything for that matter. If anything, women are the "bad" sex. They have too much to gain by living a life of lies and manipulation. Men on the other hand fare better by laying it on the line.

I tend to agree with KontrollerX and str8up on this one. You have to open your eyes and accept the world as it is. On the plains of Africa, the weak, slow ones get eaten.

It cracks me up when people claim that humans are "beyond" the influences of nature. Fact is, the same rules that apply for everything else on this planet generally apply for us as well.

 

[Luthor Rex]

It DOES result in bad behavior. Reciprocation works well in an organized society, but inevitably there will be people around every corner who are looking to cheat the system

There is ALWAYS something in it for them. Might they be looked upon as a hero in their village?

Go read 'Atlas Shrugged' or the 'Fountainhead' or at least enough of either novel to understand the virtue of selfishness.

Rand makes a very good case for why someone who is consciously (rationally) self-interested (selfish) will act in a moral manner even when they 'could get away with it'.

If you could steal without being caught, a man of rational self-interest would turn down such an opportunity. Why? Because the man himself knows he stole, and the injury will be to his own 'soul'. Such an act would make his character erode, and this loss would push that man further from the achievement of serenity in his soul and happiness in his life. Thus, such an act would be against his own selfishness.

 

[iqqi]

There ARE people out there who do things SIMPLY because it is the good and right thing to do, at NO benefit to themselves... except the benefit from KNOWING that there is good in the world. These people always tend to be the happiest people. And I think that is something Einstein was getting at.

 

[aliasguy]

Go read 'Atlas Shrugged' or the 'Fountainhead' or at least enough of either novel to understand the virtue of selfishness.

Rand makes a very good case for why someone who is consciously (rationally) self-interested (selfish) will act in a moral manner even when they 'could get away with it'.

If you could steal without being caught, a man of rational self-interest would turn down such an opportunity. Why? Because the man himself knows he stole, and the injury will be to his own 'soul'. Such an act would make his character erode, and this loss would push that man further from the achievement of serenity in his soul and happiness in his life. Thus, such an act would be against his own selfishness.

Damn, LuthorRex, what a post! I like your extension of "selfishness" to include "moral" behavior. Your previous post is clear, well written, and enlightening, too.

I love Rand, even though she was such a B*TCH. (Her personal life was a MESS, and her inability to come across well in interviews was legendary. But I think her books lay out a uniquely clear and TRUE message.) She just said it as it was.

I think she would differ with you on the use of the word "soul," though. But, you put "soul" in quotes, so we'll let that go.

I think you are right. All here should read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. The Fountainhead was even made into a really cool movie with Gary Cooper. She wrote the screenplay.

 

[ketostix]

There ARE people out there who do things SIMPLY because it is the good and right thing to do, at NO benefit to themselves... except the benefit from KNOWING that there is good in the world. These people always tend to be the happiest people. And I think that is something Einstein was getting at.

There are lots of people who will do the "right" thing in certain situations. As long as it doesn't really cost them too much. That's what the average person does. Those same people willl do as much or more selfish and wrong things too. I find women to be the least altruistic and most selfish from experience. One example is, I forgot my money for lunch one day at the university. I asked a couple of girl classmates if I could borrow a few dollars everyone of them said no. I asked the only guy clasmate, he hated me basically and saw me as a rival. But without hesitating he lent me more money than I asked for.

From the point of view of being a man there are no "good" people. It's mostly all about competition and status.

 

[Mr.Positive]

There is ALWAYS something in it for them. Might they be looked upon as a hero in their village?

I don't think it's about being a bad person, good person, or being selfish, thinking about the outcome of the actions we take in life.

Sometimes, there just isn't time to think about that stuff.

When the fit hits the shan. People will act, or react, based upon an instinct that comes from within each one of us. We all have this potential. It's a time, for action, not thought.

This man acted. He didn't think of the outcome. He saw two kids in danger and he acted, end of story.

There's good in all of us, although people by nature will not choose to see it. Sometimes it takes an extreme situation to bring out that very nature in us, but believe me, it's there.

 

[STR8UP]

There ARE people out there who do things SIMPLY because it is the good and right thing to do, at NO benefit to themselves... except the benefit from KNOWING that there is good in the world. These people always tend to be the happiest people. And I think that is something Einstein was getting at.

A species cannot survive based upon those principals. Humans may be smarter than the average bear, but we aren't immune to the laws of nature, as you would have us believe.

 

[iqqi]

There are lots of people who will do the "right" thing in certain situations. As long as it doesn't really cost them too much. That's what the average person does. Those same people willl do as much or more selfish and wrong things too. I find women to be the least altruistic and most selfish from experience. One example is, I forgot my money for lunch one day at the university. I asked a couple of girl classmates if I could borrow a few dollars everyone of them said no. I asked the only guy clasmate, he hated me basically and saw me as a rival. But without hesitating he lent me more money than I asked for.

From the point of view of being a man there are no "good" people. It's mostly all about competition and status.

Why you choose to label an entire gender based on people in your classroom is beyond me.

I could easily come up with the alter version to dispute your experience, but it is besides the point, and it gets tedious.

I have witnessed great deeds in my life, and I have even done one or two myself. I believe that there is truly good, even greatness, in this world.

I don't think it comes around to your own backyard every day.

Did anyone hear about the pay it forward incident at Starbucks the other day? Lol. That was cute.

 

[Gerard-890]

joekerr I believe that you created an excellent post and an excellent topic, I for one hope you stick around.

My opinion on the subject matter is that joekerr you are right and wrong at the same time, let me explain.

I believe that your general tactic and advise to "see most of the people as good" will help out a person's internal beliefs and outlook on people is genius and I myself have those same views.

But with this you have to maintain responsibility. As some of the other posters have mentioned, people are people, and people aren't PERFECT. People can be "good on Monday" and "bad on Tuesday" in a sense, we are ALL one bad decision away from the slammer.

So having awareness of the "human-ness" and "imperfection-ness" of everyday people and even yourself, this should cause you to create protective plans and strategies for every area of your life.

1.) Protect your money
2.) Protect your body
3.) Protect your heart
4.) Protect, protect, protect

Each area has it's own unique plan for protection, its our responsibility to mode and create this protection plan so OTHER PEOPLE and even OURSELVES don't destroy it.

Then as you said joekerr, it's better to have an internal POSITIVE THOUGHT and OUTLOOK, rather than a negative one. It causes a more charming, cool, and lovable person, this is my foundation for my lays.

Just make sure you take responsibility for your life, if you don't, somebody else will.

But joekerr you are overall right, people are good, because most of them don't have any intentions to do harm. This doesn't mean they don't have the ability to harm you and won't harm you, most don't have the intent. But just with the awareness of their ability to harm, if you place protective things up for the most part, their "potential" harms can do you no wrong, this will allow you to keep your positive outlooks and love the world.

 

[Victory Unlimited]

You know how you can tell if you're a "good" person or not?

Well...

If you're ever standing ALONE in a room, and you FART-----without ANYONE even in smelling distance...and you STILL actually open your mouth and say out loud:

"Oh, excuse me."

Then, I think that's some classy assed shyt------and you are one HELL of a good person in MY book...


Carry on.

 

[ketostix]

Why you choose to label an entire gender based on people in your classroom is beyond me.

Except I said it was one minor example, and I could give many more examples over many years of observing similar characteristics of women and almost none to the contrary.

 

[iqqi]

Except I said it was one minor example, and I could give many more examples over many years of observing similar characteristics of women and almost none to the contrary.

And I could do the same, but reversed. What's the point.

 

[ketostix]

joekerr I believe that you created an excellent post and an excellent topic, I for one hope you stick around.

My opinion on the subject matter is that joekerr you are right and wrong at the same time, let me explain.

I believe that your general tactic and advise to "see most of the people as good" will help out a person's internal beliefs and outlook on people is genius and I myself have those same views.

But with this you have to maintain responsibility. As some of the other posters have mentioned, people are people, and people aren't PERFECT. People can be "good on Monday" and "bad on Tuesday" in a sense, we are ALL one bad decision away from the slammer.

So having awareness of the "human-ness" and "imperfection-ness" of everyday people and even yourself, this should cause you to create protective plans and strategies for every area of your life.

1.) Protect your money
2.) Protect your body
3.) Protect your heart
4.) Protect, protect, protect

Each area has it's own unique plan for protection, its our responsibility to mode and create this protection plan so OTHER PEOPLE and even OURSELVES don't destroy it.

Then as you said joekerr, it's better to have an internal POSITIVE THOUGHT and OUTLOOK, rather than a negative one. It causes a more charming, cool, and lovable person, this is my foundation for my lays.

Just make sure you take responsibility for your life, if you don't, somebody else will.

But joekerr you are overall right, people are good, because most of them don't have any intentions to do harm. This doesn't mean they don't have the ability to harm you and won't harm you, most don't have the intent. But just with the awareness of their ability to harm, if you place protective things up for the most part, their "potential" harms can do you no wrong, this will allow you to keep your positive outlooks and love the world.

You make some good points. Like I said earlier while I disagree that people are good, If you have that mindset people are bad and will harm you when interacting with others it will be conveyed as you lacking confidence more or less. it's basically the same principle as the benefits of positivity. And that positivity can bring out the better from others, usuaully not always though.

The way I see it is people are good and bad. While most people aren't set on harming others, most people are nuetral or indifferent. They can act either way and it is dependent a lot in how you interact with them on which side you bring out of them. This is really what this whole forum is about, bringing the best benefits you can out of others, especially women. Which brings up another point of why people are not necessarily unselfishly good. They're being "good" on the reciprocity principle of you being good to them back, and usually you have to be the first to initiate it. So to the degree of being positive and it helping your confidence, I agree that joekerr has a point.

 

[ketostix]

And I could do the same, but reversed. What's the point.

You cannot honestly do the same in reverse because you cannot objectively even admit when a woman is being selfish or bad in the first place. So your examples of the reverse would be just as biased. The point is there's few truley good women, and I don't care if you believe it or not.

 

[Gerard-890]

ketostix you make some great points also. Joekerr is more right in the proposition of having an "internal positive outlook" of the world rather than a negative one, this just makes you feel better, makes you have more confidence, and be more comfortable. I believe confidence = comfortableness, if you were going to hang out with a group of friends you would be "comfortable and confident" right? Now imagine having out with a group of strangers? Not so "comfortable" right?

Joekerr is saying to "imagine" everyone as friends, good people, this is ONLY to assist in YOUR internal positive state, emotions, and feelings.

This is what we all should do, not because it's "unrealistic" that everyone is "good," we aren't doing it for other people we are doing it for ourselves, having this internal image makes ourselves feel better.

What I added was to have a protection plan established around every area of your life, so you don't become a DOORMAT, or get used, or taken advantage of, or other harmful things that people do to POSITIVE AND NICE PEOPLE, see what I'm saying?

I think we all should be striving to be attractive, nice, and great to our communities WITHOUT being a doormat in the process.

After all, the problem with the AFC is NOT that he's a bad person or maybe not even the fact that he's unattractive, the problem is that he's a doormat, and hasn't created protection and defensive plans to safeguard each area of his life from his surroundings.