PART 1 - I guess I'm dating a chick with BPD, please help if you have experience

[The Grue]

@ AlexDP Hello Alex, I was involved with a woman who was probably a BPD case. However, what I sometimes saw in her eyes was a wild look which turned into sadness... Furthermore, she slept very little and only with the help of medication...is that a result of BDP medication or could it be attributed to other causes?

 

[The_411]

For those of you who don't quite understand, it's no big deal ... it's very ahrd to understand unless you go through it.

The allusion is to a siren. BPD/HPD women are sirens who ae master manipulators. Think about when you were younger and on one of those murder msytery shows like 48 hours some dude with decent to average looks was able to get women all over him and even after he did terrible things they are still in love with him.

What I'm getting at is psychopaths. On this board we see cosntantly how women can't handle getting dumped and they love to hate the bad boy. Well weith a sociopaths they are well beyond normal human capabilities in terms of manipulation.

They basically take our "tricks" amplify them by 1000x and they can get women to think or do just about anything. Same goes for cluster B women.

They basically make you feel like a god then take that feeling away bit by bit. They're crazy good in bed and sexy as hell to the individual because they are tapping into your psyche.

Now, as far as the guys who date cluster B women there are unreolved issues (mostly boundries issues/co-dependancy issues) because when you're healthy you are able to dismiss these girls very quickly.

That being said if they are hot then it gets much harder.

 

[49au]

Now, as far as the guys who date cluster B women there are unreolved issues (mostly boundries issues/co-dependancy issues) because when you're healthy you are able to dismiss these girls very quickly.

That being said if they are hot then it gets much harder.

Two very good points.

And the really dangerous ones are the "waifs", the "quiet BPD." These don't present as angry psychotics, they present as super-feminine, fragile women that want to give and receive deep, pure love.

This article on waifs is very good.

I had a long thread about my ex, and at the time I really didn't believe she was BPD. But I am really starting to believe that she was, the more I read and understand about it.

And yes, she was hot... and VERY sexual in the beginning. This is a girl who went from telling me to take out her tits and suck them while we're sitting in the front seat of a cab one night, to only a couple months later telling me that she does not like PDA and does not want to kiss much in public. And the emotional withdrawal was similar to the sexual withdrawal.

Yet what happens is that their ultra-neediness, and their excessive desire for contact and time spent with us, is misinterpreted as love and high interest level. So we overlook the red flags and we stay because here is a hot girl that really "loves" us, needs us, and we hope that she will get back to the way she was in the beginning.

A little while after it ended, I stopped asking myself "why did she drift away?" and started asking myself "why did I ever stay?" The answers was that I had a boundary issue and a massive desire to "save" what I sensed was a broken woman. I thought I was a healthy guy when I met her; I had a very very healthy ego and sense of self-worth. I mistook the intense feelings she made me have for some spiritual love when in fact it was simply her particular disorder was the only one that activated my own. If I was as whole and healthy as I thought, I would've nexted her.

 

[Johnnyventana]

"But if you get over it, and most do, you will become a rock emotionally. It's odd to say, but it has done wonders for both my professional and my love life." This is so completely true. It's call the Borderline Gift. While you can't fix them, they force you to fix yourself because after trying to understand and fix them, you realize you can't fix another person and began to see that it is you, that not only needs fixing, but unlike them, can be fixed. Prior to the borderline, you may have not even thought you were broken.

 

[49au]

"they force you to fix yourself because after trying to understand and fix them, you realize you can't fix another person and began to see that it is you, that not only needs fixing, but unlike them, can be fixed. Prior to the borderline, you may have not even thought you were broken.

This x 1000.

 

[AlexDP]

@ AlexDP Hello Alex, I was involved with a woman who was probably a BPD case. However, what I sometimes saw in her eyes was a wild look which turned into sadness... Furthermore, she slept very little and only with the help of medication...is that a result of BDP medication or could it be attributed to other causes?

I think it is most likely the BPD itself. Could be the meds, but I don't think so. My ex had weird sleeping patterns as well. What most borderlines experience is a constant feeling of anxiety. They can't soothe themselves, so they're always nervous, anxious. It is also why they, towards the end of a relationship, usually get sick. The anxiety and the stress increase and the body stops coping.

 

[AlexDP]

For those of you who don't quite understand, it's no big deal ... it's very ahrd to understand unless you go through it.

The allusion is to a siren. BPD/HPD women are sirens who ae master manipulators. Think about when you were younger and on one of those murder msytery shows like 48 hours some dude with decent to average looks was able to get women all over him and even after he did terrible things they are still in love with him.

What I'm getting at is psychopaths. On this board we see cosntantly how women can't handle getting dumped and they love to hate the bad boy. Well weith a sociopaths they are well beyond normal human capabilities in terms of manipulation.

They basically take our "tricks" amplify them by 1000x and they can get women to think or do just about anything. Same goes for cluster B women.

They basically make you feel like a god then take that feeling away bit by bit. They're crazy good in bed and sexy as hell to the individual because they are tapping into your psyche.

Now, as far as the guys who date cluster B women there are unreolved issues (mostly boundries issues/co-dependancy issues) because when you're healthy you are able to dismiss these girls very quickly.

That being said if they are hot then it gets much harder.

They're master manipulators if they catch you off guard. That is why, if you fall victim to them so to speak, you have issues. Cluster B's do manipulate well, but if you listen closely to their stories, they will not add up. The amount of egocentrism is incredible and a healthy person will sense immediately that the borderline is objectifiying him.

You see... those women attracted to the sociopath? Most of them will have borderline traits. Healthy women don't go for the bad boy who mistreats them. It is what is quite annoying about this forum, the idea that they will. Basically you have guys here telling you to be a jerk, because all women are *****s anyway. And yes, if you're a jerk, the women you get will be *****s. And yes, they will most likely be pretty, because that's all they got.

Now if you know that a borderline is attracted to sociopaths, narcissists and people with weak boundaries that tells you something about the men who are attracted to and involved with borderlines..

 

[5string]

Some indicators:

Very feminine, alluring.
Hypersexual (amazing sex).
Sound like a 17 yr old. Very childlike in some ways.
Overly concerned about their appearance. Clothing is very revealing.
Raging. One minute you are the greatest. Next you are the devil (and you didnt even do anything wrong).
Myriad of physical complaints. No known etiology.
Intense fear of abandonment. Say things like "I'm not good enough for you", "I wish I'd just die".
Promiscuous.
History of very short, intense intimate relationships in the past.
Extremely low self esteem.
They always try to run or end it with you before you end it with them.
Dysfunctional family.
History of physical, sexual, mental and/or emotional abuse.
Tend to be very attractive.
Cutting.
Previously DX with depression or an anxiety disorder.

Wanna know more? Just ax me.

 

[Atom Smasher]

Adding to the list:

Will visibly change to a 12-year-old when conflict arises. You can often actually see her physiology change.
Interrupts constantly during confict.
Any sentence that you say will be interrupted. When you attempt to not allow the interruption, she will invariably say, "You won't let me talk".
Feels overwhelming anxiety when apart from you, and creates imaginary scenarios in her mind (you were out with another girl).
When brought to the facts, she will say, "Well I just FEEL that you were".
Facts mean absolutely nothing to her. Her feelings are facts to her. No amount of rational conversation will penetrate. Zero.
Lectures you while staring into space because she is disassociated.
If she is intelligent she will have an enormous pride and arrogance issue. Her ego is gigantic.

Since I'm a glutton for punishment, the weekend before last I went out for a visit to my ex-BPD, because "things would be different", LOL.

She had managed to appear normal for a while, and I got suckered in. Need I tell you that the day went terribly? First 2 hours were fine, then a conflict arose. She reverted to the 12 year old and all was lost. I drove her home, shook my head and thought, "Atom, what were you thinking?" The answer, of course, is that I wasn't thinking.

That's the power of these hyper-feminine monsters. They suck you into their vortex before you even know what hit you. And they have an almost supernatural tendency to erode a man's spirit. That's the worst part. You can feel your life force being sucked out of you and a black cloud hangs over your entire life. They don't mean to do it. They are completely unaware of this, and I do mean completely. And they cannot be made aware, therefore they cannot change, except for a precious few.

It really is quite sad, especially because very few of them escape and get better. They are completely deluded. But as for us men, we need to recognize the symptoms and run for our lives when we find one.

I've had enough spirit-suckage for one lifetime. I'm fairly jaded, but it never fails to amaze me how a BPD can almost supernaturally erode a man's spirit. I think it's because usually there is so much good there in the relationship, and yet these BPD traits are unsurmountable and therefore massively frustrating because of the contrast with the good. It's that dichotomy that is so alarming and eroding.

 

[bigneil]

...they have an almost supernatural tendency to erode a man's spirit. That's the worst part. You can feel your life force being sucked out of you and a black cloud hangs over your entire life.

Yes and they don't need to say a word to do it. They just give you the "uncomfortable silence".

 

[deuce42]

This is message to you guys and in particular AlexDP. I read this post with goose bumps down my spine and that stupifying sence of familiarity, - I literally kept saying yes and nodding to the computer screen as you guys recited carbon copy examples of my ex's behaviour. So my question is, where can I learn what you guys know about BPD? Just reading your posts has already made me feel better about myself and able to understand some of her manipulation and completet devoid of empathy or feelings for me and others. I pitty her previous boyfriends whom apparently treated her badly. In hindsight I bet they were just poor suckers like me.

Now I know Shari S's page and a few lists here on this board, but AlexDP and others, you clearly have a huge and valuable understanding in this area and I would love to garner or be armed with your knowledge. It helps me ratinoalise and understand what I went through and makes me feel better during my recovery! Where did you emass all your knowledge from?

For what it's worth, the worst part of the BPD girl is when they actually fit other box's besides sexual and hero worshipping you. They are like a disease.

 

[5string]

This is message to you guys and in particular AlexDP. I read this post with goose bumps down my spine and that stupifying sence of familiarity, - I literally kept saying yes and nodding to the computer screen as you guys recited carbon copy examples of my ex's behaviour. So my question is, where can I learn what you guys know about BPD? Just reading your posts has already made me feel better about myself and able to understand some of her manipulation and completet devoid of empathy or feelings for me and others. I pitty her previous boyfriends whom apparently treated her badly. In hindsight I bet they were just poor suckers like me.

Now I know Shari S's page and a few lists here on this board, but AlexDP and others, you clearly have a huge and valuable understanding in this area and I would love to garner or be armed with your knowledge. It helps me ratinoalise and understand what I went through and makes me feel better during my recovery! Where did you emass all your knowledge from?

For what it's worth, the worst part of the BPD girl is when they actually fit other box's besides sexual and hero worshipping you. They are like a disease.

deuce

Here is where to go. First stop is right here brother. So a search on SS for:
1)cluster b
2)bpd
3)personality disorder(s)

Then, google all of the above. You'll get even more info. Plus there will be references to some very good books you can read.

Final thought to you all. When you read sexysuave's story, don't think it can't happen to you. It can.

 

[AlexDP]

This is message to you guys and in particular AlexDP. I read this post with goose bumps down my spine and that stupifying sence of familiarity, - I literally kept saying yes and nodding to the computer screen as you guys recited carbon copy examples of my ex's behaviour. So my question is, where can I learn what you guys know about BPD? Just reading your posts has already made me feel better about myself and able to understand some of her manipulation and completet devoid of empathy or feelings for me and others. I pitty her previous boyfriends whom apparently treated her badly. In hindsight I bet they were just poor suckers like me.

Now I know Shari S's page and a few lists here on this board, but AlexDP and others, you clearly have a huge and valuable understanding in this area and I would love to garner or be armed with your knowledge. It helps me ratinoalise and understand what I went through and makes me feel better during my recovery! Where did you emass all your knowledge from?

For what it's worth, the worst part of the BPD girl is when they actually fit other box's besides sexual and hero worshipping you. They are like a disease.

There are a lot of internet sources, they all have their benefits, but they also all have their downsides. Shari S's page for example is very good, but it is written from the viewpoint that borderlines are emotional vampires. So is the shrink4men website. This is true to an extent, but also shortsighted. Furthermore it helps people do exactly that which the websites themselves advocate against: it helps create a victim mentality. Shari's site is a bit better as it focusses on you though.

Then there's BPD family, which is a good site, but all in all quite patronising. There is one member on the message board there however, who goes by the name 2010, and her knowledge on the subject is very profound. On this forums there are several good posts, but they focus on how a borderline relationship evolves. They tell you how to recognise borderlines (which after having been in a relationship with one should be fairly easy), but they tell you very little about why you chose to be with a borderline. This is a pity, because it's the subject you should focus on.

As borderlines like the drama and attention, they also write a lot of blogs. I've read quite a few I must admit. However you can only read those if you combine them with a certain amount of knowledge about the subject. You see.. It's about patterns and about understanding why they write what they write. If you read it on a more superficial level, you'll just get confused. But it can be an eye-opener in the sense that for example you could read her writing "I've found the love of my life" in August and see her bashing the same guy in January. In between you'll get a taste of her anxiety and distress.

 

[AlexDP]

deuce

Here is where to go. First stop is right here brother. So a search on SS for:
1)cluster b
2)bpd
3)personality disorder(s)

Then, google all of the above. You'll get even more info. Plus there will be references to some very good books you can read.

Final thought to you all. When you read sexysuave's story, don't think it can't happen to you. It can.

And it is quite likely that it will. Look. A forum such as this one is going to be visited by people who have self esteem issues. That is people who are insecure and therefore don't get girls and people who come here to try and control others, these are narcissists. Both are very likely to get involved with a borderline at some point.

It is also why this forum has a few very good points: it helps focus on who you are as a man. It also tries to distinguish real self esteem from false self esteem and arrogance. If you read Pook's posts for example, you will notice that this is a man who will not get involved with a borderline on an emotional level.

 

[Wal Doe]

tough

she is probably a borderline with a narcissistic personality disorder. she can love you in her own, unique way-by loving your money, house, car and image you provide for HER, the center of the universe.

 

[joverby]

Wow....Sounds a lot like my GF....WTF...

-Verry feminine, alluring.(She gets her nails done etc.)
-Hypersexual (amazing sex).
-Sound like a 17 yr old. (She's 20 so meh on this one)
-Overly concerned about their appearance. Clothing is very revealing.
-Raging. One minute you are the greatest. Next you are the devil (Her version of me being the devil is just being cold to me)
-Intense fear of abandonment. Say things like "I'm not good enough for you"(She only said that when we broke up, before we got back together)
-Promiscuous.
-Extremely low self esteem.(She used to have REALLY low but has gotten better)
-They always try to run or end it with you before you end it with them.(Think that may of been going on)
-Dysfunctional family.(Don't think so but her brother is pretty dysfunctional, and she used to cut so theres prob **** I don't know)
-History of physical, sexual, mental and/or emotional abuse.(Assuming there has to be something since she used to cut, but again IDK)
-Tend to be very attractive.(She's really hot, her body ...not so much. Think she used to be fat/fatter, so has some lose skin on her stomach(it's not that bad though I just have high standards) and no boobs little skeeter bites)
-Cutting.(She has BAAAD scars on her arms)
-Previously DX with depression or an anxiety disorder.(She used to be on Prozac, during her cutting days. She actually told me that she used to have straight A's up until Highschool then said she didn't know what happend but said something how weed had something to do with it. But I think there could've been something traumatizing if that's when her cutting started)
-Will visibly change to a 12-year-old when conflict arises. You can often actually see her physiology change.(Just asks me why I'm "freaking out" when I was just bringing up / asking logical points)
-She's Bi-Sexual
-Catch her in stupid lies / omissions of truth.

 

[deuce42]

Thanks for your advice guys - its awesome having this level of wisdom and assistance.

 

[5string]

Wow....Sounds a lot like my GF....WTF...

-Verry feminine, alluring.(She gets her nails done etc.)
-Hypersexual (amazing sex).
-Sound like a 17 yr old. (She's 20 so meh on this one)
-Overly concerned about their appearance. Clothing is very revealing.
-Raging. One minute you are the greatest. Next you are the devil (Her version of me being the devil is just being cold to me)
-Intense fear of abandonment. Say things like "I'm not good enough for you"(She only said that when we broke up, before we got back together)
-Promiscuous.
-Extremely low self esteem.(She used to have REALLY low but has gotten better)
-They always try to run or end it with you before you end it with them.(Think that may of been going on)
-Dysfunctional family.(Don't think so but her brother is pretty dysfunctional, and she used to cut so theres prob **** I don't know)
-History of physical, sexual, mental and/or emotional abuse.(Assuming there has to be something since she used to cut, but again IDK)
-Tend to be very attractive.(She's really hot, her body ...not so much. Think she used to be fat/fatter, so has some lose skin on her stomach(it's not that bad though I just have high standards) and no boobs little skeeter bites)
-Cutting.(She has BAAAD scars on her arms)
-Previously DX with depression or an anxiety disorder.(She used to be on Prozac, during her cutting days. She actually told me that she used to have straight A's up until Highschool then said she didn't know what happend but said something how weed had something to do with it. But I think there could've been something traumatizing if that's when her cutting started)
-Will visibly change to a 12-year-old when conflict arises. You can often actually see her physiology change.(Just asks me why I'm "freaking out" when I was just bringing up / asking logical points)
-She's Bi-Sexual
-Catch her in stupid lies / omissions of truth.

Oh man! Please watch your six and protect your heart. This stuff is serious. Please be careful. We're here if you need us.

 

[AlexDP]

The really annoying part is that the mindfvcking is endless. My ex blocked me on facebook and everything and made her entire profile private. Now I am no longer blocked and I can see her activities and some of her pictures. I can also send her messages. Her latest groups include "I can never be friends with you, because I used to love you and part of me always will love you" and "Sorry can we be friends is like saying hey the dog died, but can we keep it".

It's a mindgame. I don't even know if it's directed at me. Could be some other poor ex as well. But I think it is and in these cases your gut is usually right. As with most borderlines, she might think she needs something from me in the future. Probably when her current relationship dies. Her changing her privacy settings? That's step number one. Their relationship is slowly dying. It's her saying "please talk to me, show me that you still love me". Nothing is ever accidental. She probably heard I was dating people.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. The things my ex says, the things she does.. they're all pretty much part of a disorder. And that's what one needs to accept after being involved or when still involved with a borderline: a large part of their behaviour is a disorder at work and not a person.

 

[deuce42]

The really annoying part is that the mindfvcking is endless. My ex blocked me on facebook and everything and made her entire profile private. Now I am no longer blocked and I can see her activities and some of her pictures. I can also send her messages. Her latest groups include "I can never be friends with you, because I used to love you and part of me always will love you" and "Sorry can we be friends is like saying hey the dog died, but can we keep it".

It's a mindgame. I don't even know if it's directed at me. Could be some other poor ex as well. But I think it is and in these cases your gut is usually right. As with most borderlines, she might think she needs something from me in the future. Probably when her current relationship dies. Her changing her privacy settings? That's step number one. Their relationship is slowly dying. It's her saying "please talk to me, show me that you still love me". Nothing is ever accidental. She probably heard I was dating people.

Ultimately though, it doesn't matter. The things my ex says, the things she does.. they're all pretty much part of a disorder. And that's what one needs to accept after being involved or when still involved with a borderline: a large part of their behaviour is a disorder at work and not a person.

Yep bang on!

One of the things I try and do is accept that you will never understand or rationalise their behaviour. They can't even rationalise it themselves.

I think the problem is that as intelligent logical guys, we often try to make sense of their behaviour or try to understand it so we can accept it and lick our wounds. The truth is with BPD, their behaviour makes no sense and follows no formula. I have been reading today that it usually throws them as well but they come to accept it and eventually just start using their unexpected behaviour as a tool for their own survival - almost exclusively that survival trick is at the cost of anyone else and they lack the ablity to feel bad or empathetic for their behaviour. They convince themselves its someone elses (your) fault. They legitimately force themselves to believe it untill the do.

As somewhere I just read today said - THEY ARE PREDICTABLY UNPREDICATABLE! I think this is an awesome quote.

My personal favourite display of total mindf%ck was my ex telling me for months about how she didn't want children - including telling me this the very first night I met her, where in her drunken state she threw herself at me in a bar. I mean most people wait till they know someone before unloading that sort of stuff. Almost once a day for months thereafter I consistently got told how I needed to understand she didn't want to have children. I almost got used to hearing this "no kids" daily monologue from her. Mostly I just ignored it because it was boring to keep hearing. I few times I responded with "hey its fine babe, I am not really sure I want to be dad either so its fine". Then the day I got dumped (via email of course guys), one of the reasons was the fact that I didn't want to have kids was too hard and unfair on her!!! I mean really, this is scary, and this was from girl with a Phd and a very high IQ. Sadly, they do nothing but create pain and sadness to anyone that comes near them. Some people in society do this, but often they are sorry for their actions. The BPD is almost always never sorry!