PART 1 - I guess I'm dating a chick with BPD, please help if you have experience

[goldengoose]

a girl I was dating has BPD. i found that out after i posted on here. never got involved in a relationship with her but i heard the horror stories about other guys. get out when you can.

 

[AlexDP]

I'm not sure exactly what I'm making excuses for? Which part are you referring to? I'm simply trying to give as much information as possible. I tell you the bad and the good as well. But she doesn't talk to ANY guys at all, not even the 2 guys that were her friends for a really long time (super AFC guys, no match), she even stopped talking to them a couple of months into it. She literally has no contact with any guys. And this is just different that these other BPD girls I read about whose phones are "constantly blowing up" and they have all these "guy friends" and ex boyfriends and random dudes still somehow in contact. All I'm saying is, she doesn't. And hell, that's different from most girls I know. Most of them do have some contact with guy friends or ex boyfriends, even the normal chicks. This nutty BPD chick that I have now doesn't. No excuses, she obviously has SERIOUS issues, lol, but she doesn't have contact with dudes, unless she has me SUPER fooled and has a hidden phone stored in her basement that she only checks in the middle of the night, I mean I dunno, but from all I can tell and all that she tells me, she has no contact with any dudes whatsoever.

And what did you mean by no boundaries? I think there is an unspoken boundary about other guys that I think she understands. If she was to somehow start having contact with an ex or some other random dudes like I read about, I would be gone in an instant. I think she understands that, that’s why some wifes disrespect their husbands by forming close relationships with other man because they know they can get away with it, while some other wifes would never even contemplate doing that because they just KNOW that their ass would be kicked out the door in an instant.

Maybe I’m misunderstanding your boundary comment, if so, please explain it to me. Once again, I KNOW I’m with a person who has SERIOUS problems, I’m not excusing or denying that one bit. This girl has internal turmoil that I wish I or anyone else never experience them selves. But as 49au and String5 have said, not all of them are wh0rebags and cheat in a relationship. If I knew of her cheating, I would be gone in an instant. I’m not saying the “potential” to cheat is not there, clearly it is, probably way more so than with a normal chick, but as far as I know she hasn’t and she doesn’t even talk to any dudes whatsoever, which is more than I can say for a lot of chicks nowadays.

Awwww, didn’t think I would write a paragraph to defend my crazy BPD chick lol. But I do want to clearly present all information I have so far.

It's bargaining. You're bargaining with the disorder. Maybe my chick has BPD, but maybe she's different than other BPD chicks. She's not. 49 is right, not all borderlines cheat. Not all borderllines are promiscuous. My ex didn't cheat either, she just hopped from one committed LTR to another.

Look. I know what it is like. I'm not even going to deny that I still have a soft spot for my ex. There is no way that I will ever come close to loving her again, but yeah, I feel bad about the entire ordeal and if I could make her happy, I would. But I can't. And if I try, it will hurt me.

Deep down you seem to realise that something doesn't feel right. Does what you're describing here sound like a relationship between two adults? You know that you're signing up for saving someone, educating someone, right? What if you fall? Is she going to help you get up? What are the qualities you look for in a partner? If you'd list them objectively, would you say your girl is your ideal partner?

 

[AlexDP]

AlexDP,

Most of the BPD stories I've read, the ex turns into a real b1tch right before or after the breakup.

Yet in my case, she has never once been deliberately hurtful, hateful, or disrespectful. She's shown a lot of guilt, remorse, sadness, and cried her eyes out in front of me. She has been cold a couple of times, but that quickly dissolved when she saw that it hurt me.

I'm not sure if this is a function of her knowing that there is something genuinely wrong with her and that she's doing it again, if she feels genuine sorrow for hurting me, or both.

Or maybe if I had kept contacting her, and had begged for her back, that side would've come out then. I don't know.



FWIW, here are some more strange statements she's made that make a little bit more sense to me now:

"I deserve to be alone and miserable forever"
"I had something good and couldn't handle it"
"I've just been in relationships my whole life and I feel like it's something I'm done with. I'm angry at myself that it happened with you because we could've had something perfect."
"I know you would be a perfect husband and father. I wish I could wake up tomorrow and this feeling would go away."
"I did give you my heart. But I have given away so many pieces of my heart and feel like I have nothing left to give."
"I realize now that I'm not meant to be with someone the way other people are."
"I was naive" - referring to wanting to marry someone else, in the past

These things are from a girl that, within a couple months of meeting me, started going to psychics and keeping a journal of their "readings." She told me post breakup that this was because "I wanted to know that you were The One."

Statements like this are indicative of martyrdom, low self esteem, and fear of true intimacy. Hallmarks of BPD. A person with BPD is looking for the unconditional love of a parent, they cannot accept the conditional/mature romantic love of adults without extensive therapy.

That is odd.. IIRC you left her? And she did beg you some, didn't she? Could be that she's trying to guilt trip you. You've obviously read up on BPD, so I'm sure you understand that they sometimes use weird tactics to keep you in the FOG. She could have realised that getting angry wasn't going to keep you miserable, but being sad and showing remorse would. It's hard to tell, but many borderlines do this.

I think she knows something is wrong. Most of them do. But then they push those emotions away and they're fine again. It would probably be a different story if you pursued her. Then she'd be cold as ice. Also a possibility though is that she's going into hermit mode. There are borderlines who become fed up with relationships, because, as she says, too many have failed. You have to understand that all those burried emotions are piling up inside her. If this is what's happening, I'm not sure where it goes next. One would be inclined to believe it would sort of heal her, being alone, but apparently it doesn't always do that.

 

[49au]

Yeah, I did leave her. And she really guilt tripped pretty hard over the next 24 hours. She made a lot of statements to the effect that I must be "relieved," this must be what I really wanted deep down, she knows I want to move on, etc.

I made the mistake of trying to reconcile with her the next night. She was extremely warm and receptive but I could tell that the ex was on her mind. I realized how dumb I was being, got up in the middle of the night to leave. She begged me to stay, followed me, and the next morning I had no less than 40 missed calls, plus missed calls on my business line, plus a tearful voicemail and numerous texts. The next morning she continued this, begging to see me, begging for another chance, etc. I said no.

Then again I tried to talk to her and she clearly wanted to spend time with me - but when I brought up the relationship again, she pulled back.


Yeah, she has said numerous times that she just needs to be alone right now. She told both me and the ex that (I saw the message where she told him that so I know that much is true).

Her case is a little strange because she is extremely introverted, and she does not seek out guys. She doesn't like to go out and drink, doesn't like clubs much at all anymore really. She never uses FB. When I met her online, she didn't even have a picture of herself up - just her dog. I made a joke about the picture and that's how we started talking.

So she is not the type to go out and try to pick up guys. It may be a few months before another one she wants to latch on to comes into her orbit, or maybe she will go back to the ex since she clearly knows now that I know something is wrong with her and she has lost control. Her ex, on the other hand, is begging for her.

I honestly hope that this time around she will spend enough time alone to realize that something needs to be done about her behavior...

 

[Johnnyventana]

"It would probably be a different story if you pursued her. Then she'd be cold as ice." Yep, just validates that their behavior is okay. Here is why it is so IMPORTANT to let them stew by themselves and not chase or follow up. If you chase or follow-up, you are rewarding their behavior. They never have time to realize that they are being dumb, because you are validating their behavior just by participating. So do nothing. And importantly, you don't chase -- because they will wake up in a couple days and they will begin to wonder if they made a mistake. They will then think some more and panic and think they will never see you again. At this point, yes, you can contact them with great results. But the whole process is lame!

 

[Atom Smasher]

Another sure-fire sign of BPD...

It is impossible to predict the next crazy thing she is going to text or say. You know deep down that it's going to be so off the wall that you couldn't predict it to save your life.

Time away from you = brain hamster running furiously, and she will be compelled to emote (because she has very little self-control in gerneral).

 

[49au]

Fortunately I don't think mine will try to suck me back in, because she knows that I realize something is wrong with her.

After my head had cleared following a few weeks of no contact, I sent her a long email admitting that the relationship was unhealthy and did need to end. At the time I was still in denial that she has BPD, but I did recognize (and tell her) that she was looking for something from a relationship that no one can ever give her, and she has to find in herself instead. I told her I didn't expect a reply, and I really didn't.

Once it dawned on me full force what her real problem is, logically I know that I can never be with her again. And emotionally I felt ready to admit that. But when she texted me a week after the email to tell me that she wanted to reply to it but couldn't because "I can't even read it without coming to tears," I realized all over again how deep their hooks can go sometimes. I instantly went from being confident, sure, knowing I couldn't let her back in, etc. to not knowing wtf to say, and hoping that maybe I was wrong about everything.

Sick stuff.

 

[deuce42]

Yes, but your girl doesn't really get over guys. She blocks them out of her life and represses her feelings. She basically fools herself into thinking she doesn't care about them anymore. Until she seems them. Or is reminded of them on some level. Or her new relationship fails.

To the guy it will absolutely feel like she has completely forgotten about him though. And she herself will believe she has too.

I would like to understand more about this if I could. It's an interesting point and I would like to know to know if they do get over their boyfriends (the many) and what happens if they see one of those again.

Alex DP, your wisdom along with others on this thread is something I am very grateful for as i have noted earlier.

 

[AlexDP]

Wisdom is too much praise. It is just knowledge combined with personal experience. There's a difference between NPD and BPD. An NPD generally never cared to begin with. He used an object. A BPD is an emotional burn victim, her emotions are all over the place, but they are very much there. The last time I met my ex she claimed to be completely over me. Yet she couldn't even look at me. Often their responses will be very childlike. You know.. they act the way a 5 year old acts when he's ashamed of himself. They can't look you in the eye.

What happens when she meets an ex again depends. In my ex's case, she seems to be able to paint only one ex black at the same time. The others are somewhat gray. For now I am the black one, but given the fact that her facebook is no longer as private as it was, I'm probably becoming more white. This can only mean that her current guy isn't doing very good. In turn he will be painted black. Which means that if I were to meet my ex right now, she could suddenly be interested in me again.

If you read other stories on other forums it is generally the same pattern. Guys don't see their BPD ex for months, then they randomly meet them (which I have to say isn't always random) and all of a sudden their exes start texting them again. This is weird for the guy, because when he last saw her, she hated him. She starts apologising and sometimes the guy believes her and gives her another chance. Because there already is history between them, the honeymoon phase doesn't last long and after a while the guy is back at square one.

She could also throw acid in your face. You see, the reason you are painted white or painted black has got nothing to do with you. Perhaps her current relationship is still thriving and given the nature of the disorder, she needs to have a persecutor. In this case you would still be the persecutor and you would be evil personified. It's nothing personal and there's nothing you can do about it, so try not to care about whether you're black or white in her mind. What I mean with she never gets over people is that she always holds an emotional connection. If we don't see an ex for forty years, we don't really care that much when we do. In her mind he is most likely still black or white and she will still associate very strong emotions with him. It is no coincidence that there are cases of people being contacted after decades.

 

[49au]

I would like to understand more about this if I could. It's an interesting point and I would like to know to know if they do get over their boyfriends (the many) and what happens if they see one of those again.

Yes, they repress like crazy. They are terrified of actually facing pain or responsibility because it means facing themselves. And at their core they feeling shame and nothingness.

My ex told me that she thought she was over her ex until she saw him again and he told her that "I will always love you." At the time I was still white, so she blew him off. But over the next few months she sensed that we were "getting serious." She told me that as time went on, she started thinking more and more about him, and realizing she still had strong feelings for him. Considering that she was with him for 2 years, they practically spent 24/7 together during the last half, and she had at one time wanted to marry him (which she later told me was "naive"), and she had thrown herself into a relationship with me only 4-5 months after him, I found this natural. But there was something deeper going on.


BPDs live in a constant cycle of fear. Fear of abandonment, and fear of engulfment. This explains their push/pull behavior. When the fear of abandonment is greater than the fear of engulfment, they will pull you to them. When the fear of engulfment becomes greater, they push you away. Normal people also have both of these feelings, but they are able to exercise balance and control. But BPDs cannot tolerate this ambivalence and it drives them insane.

During these times they employ "triangulation" to stay in control of the relationship and try to calm their fears. This is often why exes, or other men, suddenly reappear on the BPD's radar when the new relationship is either faltering (and she fears abandonment) or flourishing (and she fears engulfment). In either scenario, she will try to play the two guys against each other to put her in a position of control. If she can control the level of intimacy (pushing or pulling when it suits her) she can cope. This is why you will see stories from BPDs about cheating with random men they don't give a sh1t about, after they fight with their partner and fear abandonment because of their stupid behavior.

In my case, my ex constantly assured me that she didn't want to go back to him, citing reasons why I was "better", yet she knew I wanted "more" and she felt it was unfair for her to be with me when she still hurt over this other guy. Basically, trying to push the relationship back a few stages of intimacy and control the frame, keeping me on a leash. What is interesting is that from my last conversation with her, he is now painted black also. She said a couple of things about him with a kind of disdain. I will be kind of interested in seeing what develops. Whatever it is, it won't be pretty.

 

[49au]

I got a PM about this last post, and my response was so long that it exceeded the PM limit. So I'm putting the response here:

===============================================

It sucks, man.

But I don't think that alone is enough to indicate BPD. BPD is serious and it's rare. I have spent many many hours studying it before I finally accepted that was the problem with my ex, and that she was a Waif type.

There will be dozens of other indicators. Mine were:

- intermittent childlike demeanor, behavior, voice, tantrums

- hypersensitive

- ultra feminine

- super emotional with wild mood swings seemingly triggered by nothing

- fear of making plans and inability to make decisions

- extreme clinginess and insecurity bordering on paranoia. Constantly needs to see you, talk to you, and wants to know where you are and who you're with.

- feeling like NO amount of affection, affirmation, reassurance is enough

- walking on eggshells in order not to trigger a bad mood

- immediately established emotional intimacy and shared deepest secrets on our first night together

- went to psychics and kept a journal of their "readings", with the intent to find out if I was "the one." General obsession with finding "The One"

- needing CONSTANT contact and being upset if a text or call is not answered within a few minutes or an hour

- black and white thinking such as, "if you can come over by 9 then we can have a great night together, if you get here any time after 9 then the night is completely ruined"

- highly intelligent, yet seemed to lack common sense in emotional matters

- aversion to introspection or questioning of any kind

- gets upset if demands are placed on her or dissatisfactions with her behavior are voiced

- extreme sexuality in the beginning of the relationship which is then withdrawn to a large extent

- she will make you feel like the king of the universe from day 1

- stories, tears, and behaviors designed to make you pity her and feel that you need to save her from past pain

- in arguments, you find yourself giving ground and feeling like you are always at fault, questioning and doubting how "good" you are to her

- depressive episodes (mine once said that she didn't want to live anymore, after she got upset with me and felt that I had blown her off one night)

- strange statements such as "I know now that I'm not meant to be with someone the way other people are"

- conflicting statements and confusing behavior

- you have a feeling that she wants serious commitment, then when you discuss it, she backs away

- a feeling that she is helpless and needs to be taken care of and guided, in decisions both large and small

- real self-confidence issues, and feelings of shyness and inadequacy

- eating disorders (she went on two super crazy/restrictive diets in the period before we broke up... one of them was 500 calories a day with HCG shots). Eating disorders can substitute as a "disfigurement" behavior as opposed to cutting or burning.

- daddy issues (mine had a controlling mother she loved but was fearful of, and a father who had cheated/left the mother, started another family, and barely even acknowledged her existence anymore)

- told me the first night about her baby brother who had drowned whens he was very young, told me shortly after (couple weeks maybe?) that she thought it may have been her fault for leaving the door open

- physical maladies including cramps, frequent headaches, heartburn, always being cold even if it's 80 degrees out, anxiety attacks, or imagined symptoms (she once told me she thought she was contracting asthma)

- many more...


BPD is something that is so pervasive in their behavior, you will look back on your relationship and see DOZENS of clear indicators that something wasn't right.


There is low interest, and there is BPD. Two totally different ballgames. If you cannot find numerous, clear indicators of BPD, I would go with low interest.

 

[deuce42]

In terms of my questions above about how BPD's behave towards their ex's, yes AlexDP and 49AU this makes sense to me. Of course my ex's previous boyfriend, the one she was living with for seven years before she hit or me at a friends birthday drinks one night and then dumped him for me - (yes no surprises then i got dumped, imagine that), - was constantly demonised by her. I always heard how bad he was to her. I am sure in hindsight he didn't do any of the things she said and i am sure she simply made it up. Perhaps I am now in the black list and being accused of lies as well.

In my case, for the following reasons:

1) We had mutual close friends and i was sure I would see or hear about her again through them, and was also worried she would make up lies about me to them,

2) We had the same intellectual and artistic interests and I was again sure I would run into her at some gathering of this type,

3) I had wasted a good chunk of my life with her, .........

I stupidly decided we should still maintain contact after I got dumped (that was after being begged to come back to the relationship, then only three days later finally dumped for good!). She said she wanted to still see me casually, and I stupidly thought the ball was going to be back in my court (yes stupid and naive again) and that I could just keep things coasting now on my casual terms. Yet over a period of 12 months I tried to casually contact her via email three times ( I know i was an idiot but it was legitimately based upon my three premises noted above!). On all three occasions she didn't even bother responding. She just vanished! One moment I had wasted part of my life with her, with push pull intensity that seemed like the relationship had lasted a lifetime with her, then next minute she just disappeared.

The reason I asked my initial question about how they see or behave towards ex's, was to ascertain what was driving her silence. I wonder whether it is about the small child being ashamed of her behaviour that you guys mention (after her begging me back, I said no but then after much pleading I finally relented after she promised things would be different, and then three days later she dumped me for good) -and therefore wanting to hide from me though her shame or guilt for her behaviour, or whether it was simply about BPD's feeling no empathy for anyone and her simply not caring or moving on to another victim? Was she worried if she saw me again she would feel emotions for me again? Or was it simply about that she had now extinguished any feelings for me and therefore felt no need or interest to contact. She simply couldn't be bothered.

I accept my life is healthier without her, but I am plagued with curiosity about why she just vanished!

 

[49au]

It could be either. This is a paraphrase of another interesting exchange I had with my ex (post breakup), take from it what you will:

me: You need to really confront how you feel about your ex. Go to lunch with him and talk about things, see what you're really feeling.
her: I can't do that. I can't see him.
me: Why?
her: He knows exactly what I need to hear, and what to say.


Don't buy into the idea that BPDs can't feel guilt, remorse, or empathy. And especially that they can't feel shame. Their very core is shame. Even when they're hateful.


She could just be cold/disconnected right now. Or she could feel genuine shame and just not want to be reminded of how she treated you. BPDs are terrified of being "discovered" and found unlovable. This goes back to childhood. Both of these approaches are simply defense mechanisms to avoid their pain.


Also remember that they cannot handle ambivalence at all. It's black and white. For instance, I had an ex I dumped 18 months ago just contact me recently after a year of silence (our last conversation ended very badly as she was still very hurt).

This is a girl that went ABSOLUTELY PSYCHO after I dumped her. Threats, stalking, trying to destroy my friendships, etc. And despite her very impressive tits and rock star sex drive, I would never go back to her for anything more than ex sex.

Yet I am also capable of remembering the good times, the many wonderful things she did for me, and how she supported me at the lowest moments of my life. She genuinely loved me. We spent 2 years together.

So part of me is disgusted with her, part of me is fond of her and wishes her the best. Ambivalence.

I can handle that. I responded to her contact, and if I am in Orlando again I will probably go to dinner with her to catch up. I'm OK with it.

But a BPD can't do that. They are only capable of experiencing one emotion at a time, and while they are experiencing it, nothing else matters. There is no past, there is only the present. As long as you are painted black, you are black. And if you force her in any way to examine herself and her behavior, you can bet that she will run far far away from that.

Just something to keep in mind.

 

[AlexDP]

It could be either. This is a paraphrase of another interesting exchange I had with my ex (post breakup), take from it what you will:

me: You need to really confront how you feel about your ex. Go to lunch with him and talk about things, see what you're really feeling.
her: I can't do that. I can't see him.
me: Why?
her: He knows exactly what I need to hear, and what to say.


Don't buy into the idea that BPDs can't feel guilt, remorse, or empathy. And especially that they can't feel shame. Their very core is shame. Even when they're hateful.


She could just be cold/disconnected right now. Or she could feel genuine shame and just not want to be reminded of how she treated you. BPDs are terrified of being "discovered" and found unlovable. This goes back to childhood. Both of these approaches are simply defense mechanisms to avoid their pain.


Also remember that they cannot handle ambivalence at all. It's black and white. For instance, I had an ex I dumped 18 months ago just contact me recently after a year of silence (our last conversation ended very badly as she was still very hurt).

This is a girl that went ABSOLUTELY PSYCHO after I dumped her. Threats, stalking, trying to destroy my friendships, etc. And despite her very impressive tits and rock star sex drive, I would never go back to her for anything more than ex sex.

Yet I am also capable of remembering the good times, the many wonderful things she did for me, and how she supported me at the lowest moments of my life. She genuinely loved me. We spent 2 years together.

So part of me is disgusted with her, part of me is fond of her and wishes her the best. Ambivalence.

I can handle that. I responded to her contact, and if I am in Orlando again I will probably go to dinner with her to catch up. I'm OK with it.

But a BPD can't do that. They are only capable of experiencing one emotion at a time, and while they are experiencing it, nothing else matters. There is no past, there is only the present. As long as you are painted black, you are black. And if you force her in any way to examine herself and her behavior, you can bet that she will run far far away from that.

Just something to keep in mind.

49au, you have a borderline ex and another ex who could very well be borderline, but in any case has got some issues? Look into that, man. Why are you getting involved with these girls? What is up with that?

You are right about the borderline's mind. I also believe that the core feeling is shame. However I do find that they often present themselves differently. My ex was definitely what one would call a borderline waif. But what always struck me was the fear in her eyes. She looked scared all the time. This is not so with all borderlines. I do not think my ex often cried, even if she says she does. I do know she has a lot of issues revolving around guilt. She feels bad about the way she treated former lovers. She will never tell that to the person in question though.

49, your ex is right when she says that her ex knows all the right things to say. He does. Just like you do. Even the biggest moron will eventually figure out what gets you your borderline back. You keep quiet till she contacts you, or you occasionally send her an e-mail or something, and she'll come back sooner or later. Then you forget about the past and you just live the moment, as does she. If you bring up the past, that makes her experience guilt and shame about what she did and she can't face that so she will paint you black again.

 

[49au]

My ex-ex isn't BPD... she has none of the other traits. She just went psycho when I dumped her because she felt used and very hurt. It was a tough time in her life for many reasons. Not justifying her behavior; she isn't BPD though.

Either way, I can tell you exactly why I fell so hard for my BPD ex, why I ignored the red flags and interpreted them as "cute", "endearing", and "she's just super into me": she subconsciously reminded me of my mom, and I was trying to save my mom all over again. My mom went through ... something ... starting at 40. She tried to kill herself multiple times. Basically went absolutely nuts. This started when I was 14. When mom was happy, it was OK to be happy. When mom was depressed or raging, it was wrong to be happy, and it was probably somehow my fault. I once saved my mom's life during a suicide attempt.

I never thought any of this did anything to me. She divorced my dad and moved out when I was 16. I still talk to her, though I keep my distance. But I have blown it off all these years. "She's crazy, it wasn't my fault." But I'm starting to understand that the subconscious doesn't work like that.

I'm accepting it and learning a lot about "me" in this process. And I'm realizing why I have made a sport out of sleeping with then discarding healthy women, while staying hung up on fvcked up women.



As for my ex coming back... like I said, she knows that I know something is wrong with her. I think they only come back to the ones they feel they can control, who still think, "It's all my fault she left." She knows straight up that I know it wasn't my fault. And that scares them. Their greatest fear is exposure (because exposure=abandonment).

 

[The_411]

We do have to look in the mirror and ask ourselves why we get involved with these types of women. While a girl might be BPD if she is the guy isn't without his own problems. It takes a nut to attract a nut. Granted, those of us who were taken in and allowed it to continue may suffer from a variety of maladies none of which necessarily are BPD/NPD.

Mine was more of BPD/HPD/OCPD hybrid. It's been about 2 years since we last spoke and I basically told her off and told her she had BPD which basically exposed her as a fraud. (It also is probably the reason she hasn't thusfar tried to Hoover me back in ...)

She had very strong control over me and she had pressed me to get married early and often in our relationship.

There are so many unofficial signs that seem come out of a BPD playbook. We could probably list them and be amazed that they have the exact same lines, expressions, outbusts, almost to the point that there is a script.

 

[Revolt]

Wow, topic described my 7 month relationship with a BPD girl almost exactly. To the guy who said he trusts her because she lets him see her facebook and crap.

After mine swore she would stop with it all the guys constantly texting/flirting (which she claimed she never initiated). She let me see her phone/facebook so I wouldn't leave her.

In fact, she just deleted all her incriminating conversations and kept the rest to show me. I caught her on it several times. She also created a second facebook account, switched her status to "in a relationship" on both but not with me specifically, and used the second one to date another guy for a month along with me before I found out about it and finally ended it for good. She accidentally added me on it while high with her friends. Even after reading her status' of spending the nights with him, etc, she still tried to lie to me and talk her way out of it for a good half hour.

I honestly believe at this point a BPD is basically a sociopath that runs more on random emotion than logic.

 

[deuce42]

But is it always the case that all guys who fall for a BPD have issues as well? I feel this point is perhaps always overplayed and overanalysed. I accept sometimes this is the case but wonder why every time a guy falls for a BPD they are told to look into their own issues and problems.

I do accept that insecure guys will have a propensity to fall for the huge compliments etc that the BPD is happy to hand out - but what about the genuine allure and sexiness BPDs display as well by virtue of their BPD? I mean the fact that they are BPD, and the traits that they therefore display as BPD's are often their most alluring qualities that most men would fall for. I mean they can usually be pretty wild, fun and very charismatic as far as women go! Now add this to a body or face which if it is pretty would be a package that all guys would find irresistible.

In my case too, my ex seriously fit my own creative and intellectual needs which most of my life I had found next to impossible to find. Simply put, I enjoyed screwing hot bimbos, but underneath more than anything I desperately wanted an intellectual and artistic chick. That's a small pool of women but I learn't with some life maturity that was what I was about and what I needed. So for me, to finally find a chick like this was very rare and when she added her sexy wild side to this too, I simply couldn't say no! So i don't feel that it was addressing desperate insecurities in my life, it was simply that I was looking for a needle in a haystack and when I found it I was on cloud 9. As a result, when I was being tossed around like a plastic bag in the wind at her peril, it was also the fact that I was so in lust with finding a female with the same qualities as me that kept me into her. Now I can't lie, yes her BPD games did sucker me in, and yes its nice when someone obsesses with how amazing you are and throws praise to you all the time, but it wasn't just that. So when I did get dumped, it was so much more painful for me because regardless of my own sexual feelings I had for her, I also felt I lost the irreplacable type of girl I had been searching for so long for. The idea of going back to dumb shallow bimbo's in clubs was just awful once i realised I had finally found a deep artsy chick that could also be hot and sexy! (yes and crazy and dangerous I now acknowledge!)

My point really is that what she represented was as important to me as the BPD alluring qualities of pandering to a man's ego games she also played. Is it fair to say because I loved the little "indi- arts chick" about her, I am therefore narcissistic or insecure myself and need to deeply analyse my own needs? Is it not for fair to say that their allure, or what they may also represent in their lives may be legitimate for ANY other guy in my shoes?

 

[49au]

deuce42,

I feel what you're saying. 110%. Mine was the perfect blend for me. I finally met a highly intelligent girl (getting nearly flawless scores in med school) who was naturally beautiful, sweet, feminine, with great manners and values, yet highly sexual. It was my dream come true.

And I didn't latch onto her (and let her latch onto me) out of loneliness or desperation. When I met her, I was seeing multiple women. I slept with two girls after I'd met her. Hell, I slept with another girl one morning and then slept with her that night. I had plenty of options. But she just seemed like a dream come true. After knowing her three or four weeks I didn't give half a sh1t about any of my other plates and asked her to be exclusive. To give you some perspective... my girlfriend before her, I fvcked for 6 months before we became exclusive.


Our weakness, lack of boundaries, and co-dependency is not revealed in us falling for waifs. It is revealed in what we do after the honeymoon period is over, the crazy starts to come out, and instead of jumping ship, we excuse their behavior and delude ourselves into thinking that if we were better, they would change back into that sweet seductive angel we first met. We are so desperate to get "them" back, we change ourselves. We beat ourselves up. We accept their manipulations as fact. We walk on eggshells. We placate and soothe them when they go off on us for no reason. We are careful to return their calls and texts within minutes as we are required to in order to avoid the next round of paranoid suspicion or statements like "you don't care enough." We hold our tongue far too often. We value her happiness over our own.

And what we do after we have been dumped by these women, or reluctantly dump them, is even more revealing.

I know beyond a shadow of a doubt now that my ex has BPD, a serious emotional disorder, that precludes her from having a healthy adult love relationship. And yet part of me still wants her, and wants to save her. I catch myself researching DBT, Schema therapy, treatment timeframes for BPD, etc. Why? Because there is still some part of me that is so hung up on taking care of her that I am willing to ignore the pain and detriment it causes to myself.

"Maybe I could just get her into therapy."
"Maybe all these dozens of signs of mental disorder are just in my head and I can give her another chance."
"Maybe it really was all my fault."
"Maybe she will change somehow."
"Maybe I can fix her."
"Maybe I can learn how to live with BPD."
"Maybe she will miss me, realize what she lost, and correct herself."
"If she comes back, I will be able to handle her."

If we continue to entertain these fantasies, then this is illustrative of a huge problem within ourselves.

 

[deuce42]

Yes 49au - I know you are right. In fact trying to educate myself about this is my only defence mechanism that I know of to prevent me stupidly trying to get her back. I know if I don't learn about the reality of her condition, I will fall for her again in seconds! Whenever I think about her I try and rationalise it with the information I am learning here and just how appalling and flawed it is. The funny thing is her friends (most of which actually didn't like her I later learnt but just felt sorry for her), had warned me about her before we dated and I just couldn't accept or understand what they were telling me. And whilst she had a tapestry or 1 million previous guys, she had also been in a volatile relationship for seven years so I just presumed she was capable of a real relationship. Sadly I deluded myself into thinking she was just misunderstood or could be saved as you indicated with your ex.

I also learn't afterwards that she had been psychologist "shopping". I mean whenever one diagnosed and she didn't like it, she would leave and find another who "understood her" because apparently the others didn't. Funny enough they clearly must have.

What just scares me about this stuff is that every comment recounted from some guy's ex here is like ground hog day. My ex almost word for word fits the same stories and descriptions. Like everything that came out of her mouth was a script that they all read line for line and word for word. I find myself asking whether they have they all met? They all speak and behave to a formula. Its as if someone recounts a statement or story from their ex's, and my spine shivers as I think, "did these ladies prepare these same words together in their previous life". How do women of different sides of the globe utter almost exactly the same words and behaviours? The exact accuracy is freaky.

I really wonder this -do they ever take responsibility for the pain and hurt they bring to others? Do they always just get off scot free without responsibility?