Over 50% of wives cheat

[cfdagola]

sample size is to low...

you need at least 100 - 1000 people to create an actual statistic.

however with the divorce rate over 50% in the states with most of those divorces being initiated by the woman ages 21-26 (they take up a whopping 30%)

this weak statistic doesn't surprise me.

 

[Soolaimon]

Basically if you take steps to protect yourself from a cheater, you are "insecure" or "fearful".

I don't care about the "why", I only care that I am protecting myself.


I fear making bad investments, that doesn't mean I shouldn't protect myself from them.

Everything you are saying is coming from fear and insecurity.

It's obvious to me and most others that you don't even know what you're saying.

You are terrified of being cheated on by your woman.

That is why you need to protect yourself with imaginary boundaries and filters for your security.

Protection comes from fear.

You are afraid of your woman cheating on you with other men. That makes you insecure and fearful. That is why you need boundaries for your false protection.

Boundaries and filters won't stop her from cheating. That is insecure thinking giving you phony assurance.

People put bars on their windows for protection cause they are afraid of burglars.

You put phony boundaries and filters on your woman cause you are afraid she is going to cheat.

It's the same difference. Both are done coming from fear.

You can't stop her from cheating. She is going to do what she wants to anyway.

The fact that you need boundaries and filters shows you fear her cheating. That shows she has higher value than you.

Low value men are afraid of their low self worth.

High value men don't care. They get another woman if she is stupid enough to cheat. You cling to your boundary in terror for protection.

See the difference?

It's hilarious that you claim to use your boundaries under the guise of power and strength.

Everybody can see that it's coming from fear.

Protection comes from fear.

You are afraid of her cheating.

You need phony protection that won't work when she cheats anyway.

You should screen your woman better so you won't need to protect yourself from a cheater.

You should never commit to a cheater.

That is your fault for doing that.

You won't need to live in fear needing to protect yourself from her with phony filters and boundaries that don't work.

Cheaters are going to cheat. That is what they do. You can't stop that. Boundaries won't contain them.

Maybe one day you will realize that and not live in fear of a woman cheating on you.

You talk about what exclusivity means when she first brings up the exclusivity talks. It's like if you move in with a girl you talk about what your expectations are: "I'll pay the gas bill if you pay the electric" or whatever. You wouldn't move in together without having that talk.

A woman should already know what exclusivity means.

She is the one pushing for it. She is the one that wants it.

Talking to her about exclusivity is a waste of time when she can break it the next day sleeping with another man.

What she agrees to tomorrow might not be how she feels 2 months from now when another man is turning her on.

She will act on her feelings sleeping with that man breaking your boundary and getting past your filter.

Your phony boundaries and filters protected you with nothing.

She still cheated on you anyway cause women have free will.

Useless boundaries will give you false hopes and phony assurance allowing you to still be cheated on.

 

[( . )( . )]

Take THAT patriarchy.....x3

Everything you are saying is coming from fear and insecurity.

You are terrified of being cheated on by your woman.

Protection comes from fear.

You are afraid of your woman cheating on you with other men. That makes you insecure and fearful.

That is insecure thinking giving you phony assurance.

People put bars on their windows for protection cause they are afraid of burglars.

You put phony boundaries and filters on your woman cause you are afraid she is going to cheat.

It's the same difference. Both are done coming from fear.

Low value men are afraid of their low self worth.

You cling to your boundary in terror for protection.

Everybody can see that it's coming from fear.

Protection comes from fear.

You are afraid of her cheating.

You won't need to live in fear needing to protect yourself from her with phony filters and boundaries that don't work.

Maybe one day you will realize that and not live in fear of a woman cheating on you.

X-TREME FEAR....TO THE MAX!!

 

[The411]

X-TREME FEAR....TO THE MAX!!

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=soolaimon

Soolaimon = Shalom.

:crackup:

 

[Married Buried]

I think the wife won't cheat as long as you keep her happy. What does this mean? It means agreeing to her demands and her controlling what you do and all the changes she wants you to make for her. As soon as you piss her off and not accept her demands she thinks "f/ck him" and she will cheat because she is mad and justifies it in her mind. This is how they think.

 

[zekko]

X-TREME FEAR....TO THE MAX!!

Well, it is Halloween...

A woman who thinks exclusivity means that she can date other men while committed to me.....is a bad investment.

It all comes down to the meaning of exclusivity for you. To me, if you are going to be hanging out with members of the opposite sex one on one, that is not exclusivity. But as you can see from these threads, a lot of people disagree with that definition. Which is why I like to clear that issue up as soon as the topic is raised.

 

[jurry]

Well, it is Halloween...


It all comes down to the meaning of exclusivity for you. To me, if you are going to be hanging out with members of the opposite sex one on one, that is not exclusivity. But as you can see from these threads, a lot of people disagree with that definition. Which is why I like to clear that issue up as soon as the topic is raised.

Does anyone actually not know what exclusivity means?

I personally would not ever be in a relationship with someone who I felt compelled to go into that much detail about what exclusivity means.

Why? Because that clearly indicates that we do not trust each other. Two people who truly love and trust each other are not going to sit down ironing out a legal contract of exclusivity, you can hang out with X, you cant hang out with Y, etc. This is unhealthy, jealous behavior. They should understand each other and it is implied through their connection, that they both mutually feel and have decided on for themselves.

If you arent feeling this with the person, most likely it aint gona work out! Either way, what you agreed to in some talk isnt going to make a difference. The relationship pans out, attraction dies, whatever the reason may be, people move on. It really isnt worth that level of analysis.

Another point to consider. Do you really want a girl to be with you because you have removed all her other options? Or do you want a girl to be with you because she has seen all (or enough of) her other options already and STILL wants to be with just you? This is why I wouldnt ask or care about who my girl is hanging out with. If she is done with me and is moving on or met someone else, first of all you should have sensed that this is the case because itll be pretty obvious, and second of all good for her! Go be happy with someone else, who am I to hold her back?

Life is too short for that selfish, petty nonsense.

 

[zekko]

Does anyone actually not know what exclusivity means?

Obviously people have different definitions of what exclusivity means, since you, Perks, and Exception have a different definiton than Danger, PairPlus, and I do. Just to name a few. Clearly it means something different to you than it does to me.

Two people who truly love and trust each other are not going to sit down ironing out a legal contract of exclusivity, you can hang out with X, you cant hang out with Y, etc.

I will not enter a relationship with a woman if she thinks she is entitled to hang out with opposite sex "friends" on a one on one basis. It's very simple, no "ironing out" needed.

This is unhealthy, jealous behavior.

Just because we have different views on what we expect out of a relationship does not make my behavior unhealthy and jealous. I'm sure you have a line in the sand that you draw somewhere. Is it when the penis enters the vagina? When the tongue enters the mouth? When lips meet? Hugs? Just because we disagree on where that line is, that does not make me unhealthy and jealous.

We all have standards (I would hope). Just because mine are different than yours, you want to call me names (jealous, insecure, fearful, etc.).

They should understand each other and it is implied through their connection, that they both mutually feel and have decided on for themselves.

I completely disagree with this. I think once you start assuming that the other person should read your mind, you are asking for trouble. This is something many women do, expect you to read their mind. Clear communication is better.

Either way, what you agreed to in some talk isnt going to make a difference. The relationship pans out, attraction dies, whatever the reason may be, people move on. It really isnt worth that level of analysis.

I will not date anyone who hangs out one on one with members of the opposite sex. I don't think that requires much analysis. Besides, if you give up your exclusivity for a woman, how is that not worth some analysis? Seems to me it should be worth something. I don't even buy an appliance without thoroughly researching it. But I should give up my exclusivity without putting any thought into it?

In any case, I agree that most relationships have a shelf life, and when that happens, people move on. But while the relationship is still alive, I will have it the way I want it, or else it won't be worth getting into in the first place.

 

[Soolaimon]

I will not date anyone who hangs out one on one with members of the opposite sex.

This is the main fallacy that you same guys want to argue repetitively.

This is why your boundaries and filters are useless.

Are you guys this inept about women and relationships?

I guess you guys haven't figured out yet that women can lie to you by agreeing to your terms and then breaking them with ease after.

Hilarious!




We know that you won't date a woman who hangs out one on one with the opposite sex.

There is no guarantee that your woman won't hang out with the opposite sex if she really wants to.

Can't any of you understand that?

That is not strawman like you claim. That is common sense.

It's just like a new car you buy. There is no guarantee that it is going to work. Just like with your boundary in a relatonship.





No boundary that you set or filter that you use will prevent her from hanging out with the opposite sex when she really wants to.

Women have free will and when they lose interest they won't follow your rules.

She might agree to your boundary in the beginning cause of her high interest agreeing to your terms.

Months later when her interest declines she will hang out with the opposite sex anyway cause she is looking for another man.

She is breaking your boundary and your terms of exclusivity.

You are still dating her as she hangs out with other guys alone you don't know about.

Your terms mean nothing to her anymore.

She agreed at the time to your terms cause she was into you. Now that she is not into you anymore she is going to sneak around with other men behind your back until she dumps you.

Why can't you guys understand this?

The delusion from the few of you is unreal.

Your boundaries are fear based and your thinking is full of delusion if you think women will still follow your boundary when her IL is low.

Then what are you going to do when it's all over?

No more boundary to cling to for protection and security.

 

[dasein]

No one should be "loving and trusting" each other after the 3-7 dates when women start asking for exclusivity. That's objectively foolish behavior and acknowledging that has nothing to do with jealousy.

The relationship pans out, attraction dies, whatever the reason may be, people move on. It really isnt worth that level of analysis.

Exactly. 15 minutes on the front end spares hours and hours of time-wasting, intelligence insulting, emotion wallowing -analysis- (and it's really anything but analysis) on the back end or in the interim. "Do you remember when we talked about this specifically? It's time to take a step back from us dating exclusively, being a couple. We can still enjoy each other's company and have fun of course." Don't pretend that those things you mention, relationship pan out, attraction dies, etc. occur instantly and without lots of needless time-wasting talks and wasted time generally. Boundaries circumvent lots of that BS and get both moving forward in whatever direction much faster and less painfully.

Life is too short for that selfish, petty nonsense.

Life is too short to conduct any kind of relationships, family, friends, business, women, without a fundamental understanding of how the relationship is supposed to work.

Quality women like operating under boundaries, prefer it actually. It's the chaffe who don't. It makes them feel wanted, secure, protected, led, basically giving them masculine guidance they don't naturally get from their own psyches. Giving them those things is the opposite of selfishness. Most quality women need rational leadership and order from their man, if they don't get it, attraction fades. They already have 100 other people in their lives and media to tell them they can do anything, they can have it all, follow any impulse, rationalize away any behavior or choices, blabla.

Boundaries are 50% about avoiding exclusivity in the first place when they start pressing, 20% about a map of how things are supposed to work that avoids 3 hours emotion wallowing, intelligence insulting, soul-killing "feeling blather" with a female, 30% about easy exit without getting heated while having the best chance possible of maintaining what often is a perfectly good plate otherwise. Without boundaries, there tends to be formal, permanent breakups. With them, "Hey, we can still have fun and enjoy each other's company, it's just not time to be a couple right now." Strong mojo.

Note there's nothing "fear-based" or "insecure" or "fallacious" anywhere in the above, so Soolaimon don't even bother.

 

[jurry]

Comments in bold.

No one should be "loving and trusting" each other after the 3-7 dates when women start asking for exclusivity. That's objectively foolish behavior and acknowledging that has nothing to do with jealousy.
I wouldnt be interested in exclusivity that quickly, a girl who is pushing for it that quickly is suspect. You are probably out of her league or she has emotional problems. Hard to put a time constraint on it but id say 6 months to a year seems like the amount of time itd take to be really comfortable and trusting of the person, and know you are going to be in it for awhile.


Exactly. 15 minutes on the front end spares hours and hours of time-wasting, intelligence insulting, emotion wallowing -analysis- (and it's really anything but analysis) on the back end or in the interim. "Do you remember when we talked about this specifically? It's time to take a step back from us dating exclusively, being a couple. We can still enjoy each other's company and have fun of course." Don't pretend that those things you mention, relationship pan out, attraction dies, etc. occur instantly and without lots of needless time-wasting talks and wasted time generally. Boundaries circumvent lots of that BS and get both moving forward in whatever direction much faster and less painfully.
I dont really understand what scenario this kind of discussion would arise from. You are both grown ups, when you lose attraction or decide they arent right for you you move on. If i had to have a talk about boundaries like a 5 year old with someone, it would already be over


Life is too short to conduct any kind of relationships, family, friends, business, women, without a fundamental understanding of how the relationship is supposed to work. I understand how relationships work, its not that complicated, there should be zero stress. If there is this much confusion about how to get along with the person, you shouldnt be with them.

Quality women like operating under boundaries, prefer it actually. It's the chaffe who don't. It makes them feel wanted, secure, protected, led, basically giving them masculine guidance they don't naturally get from their own psyches. Giving them those things is the opposite of selfishness. Most quality women need rational leadership and order from their man, if they don't get it, attraction fades. They already have 100 other people in their lives and media to tell them they can do anything, they can have it all, follow any impulse, rationalize away any behavior or choices, blabla. I believe they can do anything, im not interested in being their daddy, "leading then around", etc. If what they are doing or how they live is not congruent with how I live, we wont be together.. Its that simple.

Boundaries are 50% about avoiding exclusivity in the first place when they start pressing, 20% about a map of how things are supposed to work that avoids 3 hours emotion wallowing, intelligence insulting, soul-killing "feeling blather" with a female, 30% about easy exit without getting heated while having the best chance possible of maintaining what often is a perfectly good plate otherwise. Without boundaries, there tends to be formal, permanent breakups. With them, "Hey, we can still have fun and enjoy each other's company, it's just not time to be a couple right now." Strong mojo.same as what I said above, never going to be this invested in a girl who requires that level of stress and analysis, much less exclusive with them.

Note there's nothing "fear-based" or "insecure" or "fallacious" anywhere in the above, so Soolaimon don't even bother.

 

[dasein]

Comments in bold.

If you aren't getting exclusivity pressure from women 3-7 dates in, polish your seduction technique and attractiveness. That's a completely average timeframe for normal women who are attracted/infatuated to start up with the "what are we, where are we headed? are you seeing other women?" It usually starts soon after you first have sex, and if you are waiting six months to have sex, you are waiting too long.

The discussion arises when she asks for exclusivity. It precludes, or greatly shortens subsequent discussions and arguments down the road. You invest `15 minutes on the front end to save hours and hours later, and to maintain a salvageable sexual relationship by avoiding arguments when it's time to become unexclusive again, which is your goal anyway.

Given enough experience of how all sorts of relationships work, it's unreasonable to think that flying by the seat of the pants reduces stress as opposed to increasing it via inevitable misunderstandings. This is why every financier defines LIBOR (or Prime Rate or both) in every financing agreement they enter, despite everyone in the room already knowing what they mean essentially.

No one said to be their daddy, my point was quite clear. Insisting on boundaries up front doesn't require lots of time or effort through the relationship, quite the opposite.

 

[jurry]

If you aren't getting exclusivity pressure from women 3-7 dates in, polish your seduction technique and attractiveness. That's a completely average timeframe for normal women who are attracted/infatuated to start up with the "what are we, where are we headed? are you seeing other women?" It usually starts soon after you first have sex, and if you are waiting six months to have sex, you are waiting too long.

The discussion arises when she asks for exclusivity. It precludes, or greatly shortens subsequent discussions and arguments down the road. You invest `15 minutes on the front end to save hours and hours later, and to maintain a salvageable sexual relationship by avoiding arguments when it's time to become unexclusive again, which is your goal anyway.

Given enough experience of how all sorts of relationships work, it's unreasonable to think that flying by the seat of the pants reduces stress as opposed to increasing it via inevitable misunderstandings. This is why every financier defines LIBOR (or Prime Rate or both) in every financing agreement they enter, despite everyone in the room already knowing what they mean essentially.

No one said to be their daddy, my point was quite clear. Insisting on boundaries up front doesn't require lots of time or effort through the relationship, quite the opposite.

It sounds like you are describing how to minimize damage while spinning multiple plates you have no interest in pursuing long term. This thead is about the development of an LTR and trust. If your LTR is at all like a financial agreement, then I imagine you'd be having a pretty miserable time. My position is that true trust comes organically and doesnt need to be discussed and laid out ahead of time.

I'm not saying exclusivity wouldnt be brought up that quickly, but that doing so is pointless that early on in a relationship so I would not agree to it. The girls that have brought it up seriously that soon (not just a "what are you looking for" feeling it out kind of statement) have for me been more interested in the idea of being in a relationship than actually getting to know me, or they were psycho jealous types.

But I am interested on what "insisting on boundaries" sounds like in practice for you. Are you telling girls they cant hang out with certain people, they cant do XYZ, etc.?

 

[dasein]

It sounds like you are describing how to minimize damage

No, describing how to save time and hassle, not "damage." That you can use boundaries to maintain a plate that would have been a NC full breakup is just a fringe bene, not a given or even desirable every time.

This thead is about the development of an LTR and trust. If your LTR is at all like a financial agreement, then I imagine you'd be having a pretty miserable time. My position is that true trust comes organically and doesnt need to be discussed and laid out ahead of time.

My position is that a thread on 50% of wives cheating morphed into the standard old boundaries thread, so I added my opinion on boundaries to the discussion. Trust is inapplicable here. The purpose of boundaries is not to make up for lack of trust, or create artificial trust. I couldn't possibly have been more clear in that.

But I am interested on what "insisting on boundaries" sounds like in practice for you. Are you telling girls they cant hang out with certain people, they cant do XYZ, etc.?

Have posted it in detail several times. The shortened version is 1. a general catchall, exclusive relationships are not simply "sex with one person and everything else as usual." People who are exclusive are -always- thinking of and respecting the relationship and their partner in all their behavior, not just having sex. They do what they say when they say. They don't throw lots of curveballs at their partner, things are planned together with some exceptions 2. All orbiters, exes, FWBs must go, real friends of the opposite sex are welcome, so long as they will be friends of the relationship. It's very easy to tell the difference between real friends and party friends/orbiters. 3. People who are dating exclusively conduct much if not most of their entire social lives as a couple. They slow down some, don't go out 3+ nights a week, don't party as much, unless that's what they decide together to do.

That's the crux of it. There's much more, previously posted.

 

[guru1000]

Women have free will and when they lose interest they won't follow your rules.

This ideology of “free will” is asinine.

Although many believe they are masters of their volition, they fail to understand that their "free will" is in fact a "programmed will"—a social machination—and any thoughts or decisions that arise from these "voluntary choices" are, in fact, a derivative of their unconscious, conditioned prisons of thought.

As beta-conditioning has directed all women’s “voluntary choices” within the beta-sphere, a women must be apprised of your expectations--and thus reconditioned:

"Do as I like it, as I want it, else you’re history."

No melancholy, no yearning after lost causes, simply history; NEXT! Any ideology which supports keeping a woman--while compromising your values in the process--for the sanctity of the relationship is not what any DJ worth his weight would advocate.

Grow a backbone young Don Juans. Delineate your expectations: Love how you want to be loved or walk away.

 

[jurry]

This ideology of “free will” is asinine.

Although many believe they are masters of their volition, they fail to understand that their "free will" is in fact a "programmed will"—a social machination—and any thoughts or decisions that arise from these "voluntary choices" are, in fact, a derivative of their unconscious, conditioned prisons of thought.

As beta-conditioning has directed all women’s “voluntary choices” within the beta-sphere, a women must be apprised of your expectations--and thus reconditioned:

"Do as I like it, as I want it, else you’re history."

No melancholy, no yearning after lost causes, simply history; NEXT! Any ideology which supports keeping a woman--while compromising your values in the process--for the sanctity of the relationship is not what any DJ worth his weight would advocate.

Grow a backbone young Don Juans. Delineate your expectations: Love how you want to be loved or walk away.

The problem with this analysis is you are assuming that by allowing the fact that a girl has free will and can do what she wants me or soolomain are allowing them to walk all over us and do as they please. No one said anything about compromising values, you have simply assumed all of that.

What I am saying is that I do not want or need a girl to be with me because I have placed demands or forced her to be a certain way. It should and must be natural. To do otherwise is insanity. Short term, yea you might get a girl to fit that mold, but as anti dump says you buy a relationship, you dont build it. That is a recipe for disaster.

If you keep having to have these confrontations and discussions about how she is acting and what your values are etc., obviously its not a good match! Stop trying to force something to be what it isnt and find a chick that understands all this without you having to say it! Its pretty damn simple.

 

[guru1000]

... find a chick that understands all this without you having to say it! Its pretty damn simple.

You compromise your values by failing to delineate expectations, as NO woman will understand appropriate behavior—on ALL facets--after a lifetime of beta inculcation. Wake up ... you are immersed in the matrix!

 

[TheException]

You compromise your values by failing to delineate expectations, as NO woman will understand appropriate behavior—on ALL facets--after a lifetime of beta inculcation. Wake up ... you are immersed in the matrix!

:crazy: Ai yai yai ManoMastur spotted!

Sad that you think, OVERTLY telling a woman will make her understand "appropriate behavior".

 

[jurry]

You compromise your values by failing to delineate expectations, as NO woman will understand appropriate behavior—on ALL facets--after a lifetime of beta inculcation. Wake up ... you are immersed in the matrix!

Yes.. Someone is certainly immersed in the matrix.

 

[zekko]

All you "No Boundary" people say that it does no good to set boundaries, because she will do what she wants and will not follow the boundaries anyway.

So, by that logic, then there is no reason to ever get into an exclusive relationship ever. Because by being exclusive, she is agreeing not to cheat on you. But she will do what she wants and will cheat when she wants to anyway, no matter what she tells you, right? So what is the point of ever being in a relationship in the first place?

If you keep having to have these confrontations and discussions about how she is acting and what your values are etc., obviously its not a good match! .

Again, the point is discussed ONCE, at the beginning when she presses for exclusivity. I've never had to repeat it, nor would I.