When I say that women don't "need" men I mean that they don't need someone to support and care for them financially...they can do it themselves. Obviously, men and women "need" each other for other things, or at least "want" each other.
On Becoming A Successful Man...
- Thread starter Wyldfire
- Start date
Ideally, both the man and the woman win. However, before that can happen both have to stop defying nature. They need to accept it and although men and women often have to alter how they deal with each other, they must also retain those key components of natural attraction.
Re: Re: Re: On Becoming A Successful Man...
Women have always been fully capable of supporting themselves. You seem to think that the last 40 years has changed that. It really hasn't. What about all the men who died in war and left their women and children alone? Women have been living without the support of men for 1000's of years. So you are dead wrong. You make it seem as if things have changed. Give me a break. No amount of social conditioning will ever change our basic human nature. It will only create confusion.
Modern society does call for men to fulfill the needs of women. You are right. AND THAT IS THE F_ING PROBLEM. THAT is why there are so many men who are confused. It goes against the natural order of humanity. The very notion that a man must fulfill the needs of a woman is what leads to AFCism. Men must realize that if the so called Americanized women don’t want him then there are others (millions of other women) who will appreciate him. Men need to focus on what comes naturally. They don’t need to change ANYTHING. All they need to do is be true to who they are as men.
You state that men are the ones that need women in modern society and in order to get a woman in this modern society we must fulfill her and please her. I never heard more crap in all my life. The fact is a man can have any kind of woman he wants. He doesn’t need to focus on one woman either. If a woman doesn’t respect him for being a man or doesn’t want a provider (ie. is confused by modern society herself) then he can just NEXT her ass.
Tell me something. Do you think a woman can fall in love with a man without ever sleeping with him? If you think it can happen then that makes you full of it. I guess in that situation the woman doesn't care about how he can sexually please her. In that situation the woman likes the man for who he is. She judges him on his character and how powerful he is. So sex doesn’t always come into the picture. In fact for most religious people Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc... Sexual satisfaction isn’t the focus of their relationships. They have the wisdom to realize that in the end it doesn’t really mater. In the end there are far more important things to focus on. With said, and since there are millions of them, you need to open your eyes to the realities of the world. If you did you wouldn’t be saying things like “in modern society this is how it is”. When you say something like that it makes you look stupid. It makes you look like you are living in your own little world. Ever think that your own little modern society may be completely wrong and confusing?
A man is focused on his own life and his goals. If a woman wants to be part of that she will be attracted to him. That is the natural order of the sexes. No amount of social conditioning will ever change that fact. Women are attracted to the same things they were attracted to 1000s of years ago. Strength, courage, power, money. etc. Women are attracted to real men. Real men don't worry about pleasing women in bed. It comes naturally just as you say it does and it is therefore not something to strive for.
Guys, don't ever listen to women for advice about women or about what it means to be a man. If you do she will turn you into an AFC. You can't ever expect a woman to understand what it means to be a man. You would have to be a fool to think that. If you do then you need to Wake the f=ck up. You need to realize that modern society is filling your head with crap and that is the reason you are not a Real man.
Women get confused very often in life. They think they know what they want. Most Americanized women regurgitate exactly what the media promotes.
When we grow up, The media makes us all think that it is our goal to focus on pleasing women.
You need to stop promoting your feminist ideals. It is the root cause of AFCism. You just don't tell a bunch of men that they need to focus on pleasing women. That is a bunch of femanazi bullcrap. You need to shut your trap because you are feeding the AFCs bad advice.
Women have always been fully capable of supporting themselves. You seem to think that the last 40 years has changed that. It really hasn't. What about all the men who died in war and left their women and children alone? Women have been living without the support of men for 1000's of years. So you are dead wrong. You make it seem as if things have changed. Give me a break. No amount of social conditioning will ever change our basic human nature. It will only create confusion.
Modern society does call for men to fulfill the needs of women. You are right. AND THAT IS THE F_ING PROBLEM. THAT is why there are so many men who are confused. It goes against the natural order of humanity. The very notion that a man must fulfill the needs of a woman is what leads to AFCism. Men must realize that if the so called Americanized women don’t want him then there are others (millions of other women) who will appreciate him. Men need to focus on what comes naturally. They don’t need to change ANYTHING. All they need to do is be true to who they are as men.
You state that men are the ones that need women in modern society and in order to get a woman in this modern society we must fulfill her and please her. I never heard more crap in all my life. The fact is a man can have any kind of woman he wants. He doesn’t need to focus on one woman either. If a woman doesn’t respect him for being a man or doesn’t want a provider (ie. is confused by modern society herself) then he can just NEXT her ass.
Tell me something. Do you think a woman can fall in love with a man without ever sleeping with him? If you think it can happen then that makes you full of it. I guess in that situation the woman doesn't care about how he can sexually please her. In that situation the woman likes the man for who he is. She judges him on his character and how powerful he is. So sex doesn’t always come into the picture. In fact for most religious people Christians, Muslims, Hindus, etc... Sexual satisfaction isn’t the focus of their relationships. They have the wisdom to realize that in the end it doesn’t really mater. In the end there are far more important things to focus on. With said, and since there are millions of them, you need to open your eyes to the realities of the world. If you did you wouldn’t be saying things like “in modern society this is how it is”. When you say something like that it makes you look stupid. It makes you look like you are living in your own little world. Ever think that your own little modern society may be completely wrong and confusing?
A man is focused on his own life and his goals. If a woman wants to be part of that she will be attracted to him. That is the natural order of the sexes. No amount of social conditioning will ever change that fact. Women are attracted to the same things they were attracted to 1000s of years ago. Strength, courage, power, money. etc. Women are attracted to real men. Real men don't worry about pleasing women in bed. It comes naturally just as you say it does and it is therefore not something to strive for.
Guys, don't ever listen to women for advice about women or about what it means to be a man. If you do she will turn you into an AFC. You can't ever expect a woman to understand what it means to be a man. You would have to be a fool to think that. If you do then you need to Wake the f=ck up. You need to realize that modern society is filling your head with crap and that is the reason you are not a Real man.
Women get confused very often in life. They think they know what they want. Most Americanized women regurgitate exactly what the media promotes.
When we grow up, The media makes us all think that it is our goal to focus on pleasing women.
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I'm an ANTI-Feminist, dumba$$. 
Read this thread and notice who the h*ll Pook was quoting throughout a good part of his tip...yours truly. I'm anything BUT a feminist. You're just f*cking defensive about what I wrote...and that still doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is TRUE.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19193
Read this thread and notice who the h*ll Pook was quoting throughout a good part of his tip...yours truly. I'm anything BUT a feminist. You're just f*cking defensive about what I wrote...and that still doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is TRUE.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19193
johnny_chase
Don Juan
Re: Re: Re: Re: On Becoming A Successful Man...
bump that, good point
Bonhomme
Master Don Juan
Good post
All I have to add is a personal observation: the farther along I get in this "seduction" thing, the more I've come to realize it's about self-improvement above all else.
********
You can edit a post down to a "repeat post" note, j_c.
All I have to add is a personal observation: the farther along I get in this "seduction" thing, the more I've come to realize it's about self-improvement above all else.
********
You can edit a post down to a "repeat post" note, j_c.
Ok yes you are right. Lets not talk about it anymore.Originally posted by Wyldfire
I'm an ANTI-Feminist, dumba$$.
Read this thread and notice who the h*ll Pook was quoting throughout a good part of his tip...yours truly. I'm anything BUT a feminist. You're just f*cking defensive about what I wrote...and that still doesn't change the fact that what I wrote is TRUE.
http://www.sosuave.net/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19193
Just don't forget to buy some sexy Lingerie for tomorrow night and cook that meal you promised me.
.
Sorry, my heart, lingerie and home-cooked food belongs to someone else...Originally posted by 00Kevin
Ok yes you are right. Lets not talk about it anymore.
Just don't forget to buy some sexy Lingerie for tomorrow night and cook that meal you promised me.
.
You shouldn't assume that all women are feminists, and defensiveness like that is really unattractive. It won't serve you well at all. Stop and think about the way feminists always assume that men are up to no good. When you hold that same attitude towards women you are just a male version of them. Dislike feminists and feminism all you want...but make sure you don't speak and act prematurely, like you did in this case. Don't be like that which you so obviously despise...
So Many Ways
Master Don Juan
So if you undergo self improvement, you'll all the sudden pull women?
I'm sorry, that's bogus.
Face it, people come to this site to learn how to pull women, not some abstract vision of self improvement.
If self improvement is the magical solution to one's women's problems, someone explain this to me. In fact I'll use a real life example, myself, and a close friend of mine.
I've spent my whole life doing self improvement. I got myself through school, saved my money, got a good job right after graduation and bought a condo. In the past I've spent hours in the gym pumping iron. After all of that, I still wasn't getting any women, but according to the "self improvement" people on this site, I should have been swimming in pu$$y. I'm not ugly either, far from it.
On the other hand, here is my good friend. He has a negative bank account, has never in his life had money, he's been arrested a few times for minor offenses. He can barely read and write. However, he has fu*ked over 100 women, has had multiple threesomes, has himself a team of women, has one married woman giving him money and a vehicle and he is also currently dating a very attractive med student.
How is he able to pull this off while I've struggled most of my life? It all comes down to skills and game. My friend has game and I for many years had none. It was irrelevant that I had all this other stuff going for me. If you're not able to come accross in an attractive manner, none of that self-improvement stuff matters, your career or business, your cool hobbies, the money, the crib, the clothes, the degrees, it means nothing. Period.
When things began turning around for me is when I decided to make an effort to improve my game and come accross as more attractive to women. When I did that, that's when I saw results, not from undergoing some abstract self-improvement quest.
I'm sorry, that's bogus.
Face it, people come to this site to learn how to pull women, not some abstract vision of self improvement.
If self improvement is the magical solution to one's women's problems, someone explain this to me. In fact I'll use a real life example, myself, and a close friend of mine.
I've spent my whole life doing self improvement. I got myself through school, saved my money, got a good job right after graduation and bought a condo. In the past I've spent hours in the gym pumping iron. After all of that, I still wasn't getting any women, but according to the "self improvement" people on this site, I should have been swimming in pu$$y. I'm not ugly either, far from it.
On the other hand, here is my good friend. He has a negative bank account, has never in his life had money, he's been arrested a few times for minor offenses. He can barely read and write. However, he has fu*ked over 100 women, has had multiple threesomes, has himself a team of women, has one married woman giving him money and a vehicle and he is also currently dating a very attractive med student.
How is he able to pull this off while I've struggled most of my life? It all comes down to skills and game. My friend has game and I for many years had none. It was irrelevant that I had all this other stuff going for me. If you're not able to come accross in an attractive manner, none of that self-improvement stuff matters, your career or business, your cool hobbies, the money, the crib, the clothes, the degrees, it means nothing. Period.
When things began turning around for me is when I decided to make an effort to improve my game and come accross as more attractive to women. When I did that, that's when I saw results, not from undergoing some abstract self-improvement quest.
So Many Ways...you are the exception, not the rule. Your work is going to be easier, because you have already done much of what most here still need to do. I'm guessing your issue is more of an emotional one...fear, and perhaps buying into what society feeds you about what women go for.
I'm guessing that you're probably struggling with an inner conflict between your instincts as a man and how society or your family has "conditioned" you to be. You cannot be asexual or only tentatively masculine with women. They can sense that a mile away and are turned off by that.
I'm guessing that you're probably struggling with an inner conflict between your instincts as a man and how society or your family has "conditioned" you to be. You cannot be asexual or only tentatively masculine with women. They can sense that a mile away and are turned off by that.
I don't thik I was acting prematurely. my main point was that men shouldn't be focused on trying to please women. That is the mentality that leads to AFCism and that is what you were promoting.
You might not call yourself a feminist but you were promoting it without realizing it. This is what really shocked me.
That is a myth and so is your Modern Feminised Society.
As for what is unattractive in your eyes or any woman for that mater I really don't care. If she doesn't find me attractive I really couldn't give a damn. I just move on to the next girl. No big problem. Why should any man waste his time with women that don't find him attractive or don't respect him.?
I start to fukking hate this site.... here comes a WISE woman who has way more experience than all of the posters in this thread combined, and yet becuase she is a woman she just has to be a nazi and has no idea what she is talking about.. for once, shut your male overpumped ego up and actually listen to good advice!!!
Fvck, this site actually made me think that women have no idea what they want so they cant give any soild advice on the matter of realtionships.. However when i went out and talked to a lot of girls, you know what i realized?? They know how to handle some situations so well your jaws will drop. It isnt about women guys, stop trying to find a scapegoat.. The reason you suck with women is because YOU SUCK WITH WOMEN. It isnt the societies fault, it isnt the womens fault. The reason YOU suck is your own god damn fault.
God, i have never been so mad over a stupid internet thing.. but the amount of bullsh1t that comes out of your mouths is ridiculous. YOU have no idea how this works in real life, why the hell do you keep insisting that you do!?!?!?
Fvck, this site actually made me think that women have no idea what they want so they cant give any soild advice on the matter of realtionships.. However when i went out and talked to a lot of girls, you know what i realized?? They know how to handle some situations so well your jaws will drop. It isnt about women guys, stop trying to find a scapegoat.. The reason you suck with women is because YOU SUCK WITH WOMEN. It isnt the societies fault, it isnt the womens fault. The reason YOU suck is your own god damn fault.
God, i have never been so mad over a stupid internet thing.. but the amount of bullsh1t that comes out of your mouths is ridiculous. YOU have no idea how this works in real life, why the hell do you keep insisting that you do!?!?!?
diplomatic_lie
Master Don Juan
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2004
- Messages
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I disagree. Many enuchs became very successful. For example, Zheng He.
Listen buddy...I wasn't promoting anything. I was stating FACTS. In fact, I was telling people to stop resisting their natural instincts and buying into the messages they are being sent by society. Go back and read it again. You saw a post by a woman and made an assumption before even reading what I had to say or even thinking about it. Because of that, you, sir, are being an a$$.
Now...once again...SOCIETY has changed in such a way that the REALITY is that women no longer HAVE to latch onto the first man who shows interest in her in order to survive. And don't even tell me that crap about how "back in the 40's women didn't have to do that" because you're full of sh*t. My mother's father died when she was 4 years old...right around 1940 and her family had to send all the little kids off to do chores for neighbors just to get some eggs and milk so they had something other to eat besides govt subsidy macaroni and butter.
The facts of today is that because women don't feel like they HAVE to get married it's a lot harder for men. This is fact, pure and simple. Not anywhere did I tell anyone to buy into the messages society sends them about how to deal with women. In fact, I said just the opposite...that even though women don't need men for basic survival like they used to, they are still naturally attracted to the core traits men USED to have before society changed all the rules on them. Yes, men are put in a position where they have to work a little harder than they used to because just being able to provide isn't enough for the women of today. That means they have to be more creative to find the level of success they want. It's true, period. Nowhere did I say they had to do so by buying into any feminist crapola.
You were just LOOKING for a reason to complain about women in general and i was the convenient target of the moment.
Ironically...I basically said the same damn thing another person eluded to on another thread...and you agreed with him and jumped all over me. Sorry, but there was nothing even remotely close to "feminist" about my post...you're just being defensive and presumptuous...period.
Actually...society has changed over the last few decades. Although it hasn't really made for a change for any of the guys here, it does make things more complicated for men. Their instincts tell them one thing while society conditions them to go against those natural instincts, which makes for a lot of men who are just plain clueless with women.
On the other points you're right though. Lots of the guys here are bitter with women out of frustration and they tend to take it out on the women who post here. Because I have a very strong and vocal personality, I frequently become a target of those bitter, frustrated types. Little do they know...I truly am here to try to help them because it really bothers me how men get these mixed signals that basically screws them all up.
Wyldfire,
back to your original post, though I think having those things in the back of your mind (many roads can lead to success, I, everyone should try and see what works), I do have a problem you presenting them as god-given truths. Especially Ns 2-3 in your little list:
2) Physical, emotional and mental strength and endurance
So what about the skinny drug addicts or the crazy burn-outs. Unless they're 40 and still resembling Silent Bob, most of these cats can get s good share of tail.
3) Education/Career goals and financial responsibility
Then the unemployed and poor should be unable to get some.
Now, don't get me wrong, under no light do I think it's cool to be an unhealthy broken nutcase. Matter of fact, I encourage everyone to be the best they can be, not to get woman, but for themselves. The difference is that I'm aware that the non-optimized men like in So Many Ways' example, getting tons of women, are actually doing things that are attractive to women. THESE are the things that this site wants to promote to a large extent: being your own person, not giving a damn, etc. And at least for me, one of the premises is that women will rather admit to feeling attracted to the sex in the city Mr.Big types, while probably waiting to get screwed by the ex-con. Therefore whatever advice a woman gives I take with a grain of salt.
Some of the replies here might have that in the context from which they come from, so it might be simpler to understand that reasoning rather than throwing a tantrum saying that men hate women here. BTW if you're so worried about men being misinformed you should write a book or something, no sh1t, you'd probably be able to reach even more people.
Oxide, take a fvckin hike and chill man, just because she has a vagina and us a penis doesn't mean she knows everything and guys here know nothing.
back to your original post, though I think having those things in the back of your mind (many roads can lead to success, I, everyone should try and see what works), I do have a problem you presenting them as god-given truths. Especially Ns 2-3 in your little list:
2) Physical, emotional and mental strength and endurance
So what about the skinny drug addicts or the crazy burn-outs. Unless they're 40 and still resembling Silent Bob, most of these cats can get s good share of tail.
3) Education/Career goals and financial responsibility
Then the unemployed and poor should be unable to get some.
Now, don't get me wrong, under no light do I think it's cool to be an unhealthy broken nutcase. Matter of fact, I encourage everyone to be the best they can be, not to get woman, but for themselves. The difference is that I'm aware that the non-optimized men like in So Many Ways' example, getting tons of women, are actually doing things that are attractive to women. THESE are the things that this site wants to promote to a large extent: being your own person, not giving a damn, etc. And at least for me, one of the premises is that women will rather admit to feeling attracted to the sex in the city Mr.Big types, while probably waiting to get screwed by the ex-con. Therefore whatever advice a woman gives I take with a grain of salt.
Some of the replies here might have that in the context from which they come from, so it might be simpler to understand that reasoning rather than throwing a tantrum saying that men hate women here. BTW if you're so worried about men being misinformed you should write a book or something, no sh1t, you'd probably be able to reach even more people.
Oxide, take a fvckin hike and chill man, just because she has a vagina and us a penis doesn't mean she knows everything and guys here know nothing.
I wasn't having a "tantrum". I'm just sick of the handful of bitter guys acting like morons. And being called a feminist is, in my opinion, one of the worst insults that can be thrown at a woman, especially me. I have VERY strong views in opposition to feminism.
As for Oxide...he seems to be interested in a lot of the same threads I am, so he's been seeing this same bitter/insecure guy issue that I mentioned. Chances are he's just sick of seeing it.
I'd rather be treated just like another one of the guys, and as any of the old timers here will assure you...no amount of insults, flames or puffery from anyone here will phase me in the least. I'm like teflon...all sh*t hurled at me just slides off.
AlwaysExcel
Senior Don Juan
I'm down for a little keyboard jockeying!
Wyldfire, you're catching a lot of flak because it seems like you're saying that men should improve themselves so they’ll be ready to take care of women’s needs. The focus on female needs makes some dudes cringe because this sounds awfully close to the AFC supplication advice that drove most guys here.
Personally, I think you’re getting at something much deeper. The common denominator I see with your 3Ps is POWER/VALUE. Women, hell PEOPLE, are attracted to powerful or valuable people. While I agree that this fundamental principle still applies to the modern world, I disagree with you that modern women are all looking for someone with the 3Ps. I’ve had the same experience as So Many Ways. I'm convinced that we are not the exception. And I've experienced MANY girls looking for sex and not the other Ps. Like you said, women do not need men to provide for them or protect them nowadays. But you're right, women still gravitate to value/power. Being able to provide and protect is just not so much of a demonstration of value/power any more.
So the man of the 3Ps is becoming obsolete in my opinion. It seems much more advantageous to adapt to the environment and discover ways to demonstrate power/value to modern women. The most important way is strong inner game developed through FIELD WORK. I’m talking about getting to the point where you do not seek or need validation from other people. Where validation or rejection no longer affect you. This inner strength shines through whatever you do.
Also, one of the most common contexts that we exist and interact with women in is the social arena. Becoming socially skillful and dominant is one of the best ways to convey power/value. The least important and least efficient way of demonstrating value/power in seduction is non-seduction related self-improvement, like weightlifting, hobbies, etc. I say that it’s the least important and least efficient because this stuff is only interesting and attractive to certain people. For example, if you’re into rock climbing, a bookish girl won’t necessarily value this but an outdoorsy girl might. But both types value someone with strong inner game and social dominance. So it’s better to become powerful in those areas in my experience. (I admit it’s good to have a life outside of seduction and enjoying yourself helps you become self validated. But too often it seems that dudes pursue this enjoyable stuff to avoid the more important painful work of exposing your ego).
Wyldfire, you're catching a lot of flak because it seems like you're saying that men should improve themselves so they’ll be ready to take care of women’s needs. The focus on female needs makes some dudes cringe because this sounds awfully close to the AFC supplication advice that drove most guys here.
Personally, I think you’re getting at something much deeper. The common denominator I see with your 3Ps is POWER/VALUE. Women, hell PEOPLE, are attracted to powerful or valuable people. While I agree that this fundamental principle still applies to the modern world, I disagree with you that modern women are all looking for someone with the 3Ps. I’ve had the same experience as So Many Ways. I'm convinced that we are not the exception. And I've experienced MANY girls looking for sex and not the other Ps. Like you said, women do not need men to provide for them or protect them nowadays. But you're right, women still gravitate to value/power. Being able to provide and protect is just not so much of a demonstration of value/power any more.
So the man of the 3Ps is becoming obsolete in my opinion. It seems much more advantageous to adapt to the environment and discover ways to demonstrate power/value to modern women. The most important way is strong inner game developed through FIELD WORK. I’m talking about getting to the point where you do not seek or need validation from other people. Where validation or rejection no longer affect you. This inner strength shines through whatever you do.
Also, one of the most common contexts that we exist and interact with women in is the social arena. Becoming socially skillful and dominant is one of the best ways to convey power/value. The least important and least efficient way of demonstrating value/power in seduction is non-seduction related self-improvement, like weightlifting, hobbies, etc. I say that it’s the least important and least efficient because this stuff is only interesting and attractive to certain people. For example, if you’re into rock climbing, a bookish girl won’t necessarily value this but an outdoorsy girl might. But both types value someone with strong inner game and social dominance. So it’s better to become powerful in those areas in my experience. (I admit it’s good to have a life outside of seduction and enjoying yourself helps you become self validated. But too often it seems that dudes pursue this enjoyable stuff to avoid the more important painful work of exposing your ego).
the 3 P's are BS.
Bill Gates is the best man alive able to procreate (he does have 2 children in case you wonder), provide and protect. Show me just one female admirer in front of his friggin palace saying she loves him.
Ergo you can be insanely successfull and able to provide for literally thousands of families, only to be seen as completely asexual by BILLIONS of women.
So what to do?
Remember that Pook had more pvssy than Bill Gates.
Be a MAN.
Bill Gates is the best man alive able to procreate (he does have 2 children in case you wonder), provide and protect. Show me just one female admirer in front of his friggin palace saying she loves him.
Ergo you can be insanely successfull and able to provide for literally thousands of families, only to be seen as completely asexual by BILLIONS of women.
So what to do?
Remember that Pook had more pvssy than Bill Gates.
Be a MAN.
