Narcissism

[Starman]

If only you guys had the balls to think like a chick, you would know what makes them tick.

Praise, admiration, the need for wanting acceptance, affiliation are HUMAN thinking. Not chick thinking. Male Narcissits have excessive need for admiration for achievements, career, etc etc..for their own EGO, whereas women need admiration for their beauty, vanity, etc

In our world Men are rewarded for achievements and women for their beauty.

Two seperate species.

Nice point Icepick (about putting your Ideal thinking into reality)

 

[cestmoi]

Originally posted by Starman
Male Narcissits have excessive need for admiration for achievements, career, etc etc..for their own EGO,

So what is egoism than? Was Nietzche the only egoist?

 

[IntermediateDonJuaner]

Pook, if you're still reading this

It looks like you're defending yourself hardly on your own post discussing about the great catch. So you believe that people who think of themselves as great catch here in order to be more successful with women are doing the right thing?

HELL Pook, you're suffering from mental illness if you're going to say that. Pook, I am not flaming you but what you've said so far in your post has some truth to it. For example, there's a book in the market called "Psycho-Cybernetics" which illustrates your point about the great catch because it mentioned as you think you shall become.

But if you bring this to the extreme, it is called insanity. During that time, mental home is the right place for these so-called "The great catch" believers to dwell in.!

 

[Demon]

Originally posted by cestmoi
So what is egoism than? Was Nietzche the only egoist?

How many times do I have to answer this? Rhetorical question.

Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy Egoism can be a descriptive or a normative position. Psychological egoism, the most famous descriptive position, claims that each person has but one ultimate aim: her own welfare.

Source: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/egoism

Short answer to question 2: NO! Was Nietzsche an Egoist?

Question: Does Starman know everything if anything at all?
Answer: No.

 

[cestmoi]

Originally posted by Demon

Short answer to question 2: NO!

Sorry dude, but I trust my philosophy professor alot more than you or some website. Actually the first group of students from my institute had an exam with him today, I have it in two weeks. And two of them got the question "What can you tell me about the Egoism behind Nietzche". That question by itself implies that he was. He isn't even considering the possibility that he wasn't. He outright suggests he was and asks why. So i'll pass on Nietzche not being egoist. I mean just look at ecce homo (his autobiography). I couldn't finish that book for how egoistical it was. It made my head spin. He was one ****ed up in-love-with-himself individual.

And he's like the schoolbook example of an egoist.

Edit:

Just read up the website you posted. It only proves that Nietzche wouldn't classify himself as egoist. But most criminals also say they "didn't do it". Self-denial is in the core of egoism.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Narcissist!

Hey narcissists Djs.

Thank God you, at least, recognized yourselves!
Men, my father is a narcissist one. It´s like "hell"!

The problem with him is that he NEVER admits he´s wrong. So he´ll never grow up.

At least you guys, as you admited your problem, it gets easier to "solve" even though empathy is not easy to "develop", if its possible.

Believe me. As a narcissist you´re creating your own tomb. I mean if you´re "very" narcissist. Even though some people may not tell, they dont like you at all.

A little of narcissism is good, being picky, setting limits, etc. But when you start acting like a "control freak" (my way or highway), totally inconsiderate you´ll have problems.

 

[Dirtheart]

I think you have summed up a huge problem of mine too.

I am not content to score with a hot babe unless she is totally into me! I'd actually rather be with a HB6 with high IL than a HB10 with low IL.

Rejection is still very painful to my ego and unlike some people who seem to develop an immunity, the more rejections I get the worse I feel about myself.

I would be ashamed to admit how long I spend grooming and how much money I spend on clothes, colognes, tanning sessions and grooming products etc.

It's not that I consider myself great looking; quite the opposite. I'm a perfectionist and nothing is good enough.

I guess, when it comes down to it, I am still insecure at heart. I like to think I have confidence, but I refuse even to go to the local shop if I'm looking unpresentable.

I also refuse to stop this behaviour because I feel that if I let my look and image slip, I'll lose a major attributes and end up just another average guy.

 

[Lesson]

I took a NArcisst test, and got a HIGH on it... So yea, I definately struggle with it... I will post a link soon but first wanted to share something with you in my results that really struck me. Here it is....

"Narcissistic
Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by self-centeredness. Like histrionic disorder, people with this disorder seek attention and praise. They exaggerate their achievements, expecting others to recongize them as being superior. They tend to be choosy about picking friends, since they believe that not just anyone is worthy of being their friend. They tend to make good first impressions, yet have difficulty maintaining long-lasting relationships. They are generally uninterested in the feelings of others and may take advantage of them."

THats me sometimes. I make great first impressions on girls, and they are usually interested, but sometimes by the end of me talking to them their interest falls off. I think there is a difference between being C/F and Confident and Narcisst, a BIG difference, and we just have to find that line.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

It's a mind destruction!

For you narcissists.

Read a lot about narcissism so you can understand yourselves better!

What happens is the process of evaluation and devaluation. You get all "charming" when you want something but after you've got it, you lose your interest thus you devaluate/discard your choice!

Narcissism is so cruel! For my experience,

My father is so control-freak, that if you dont do what he wants he starts with his temper tantrums! He's envy/suspicious of everybody even his family. He WANTS me to be dependent on him no matter what. He doesnt let me drive the car/motorcicle, so he's the ONLY one to do it. As if he was a kind of gifted person.
Wants me to ask for permission for everything (even though I'm above 18 yo), and treats me and my brothers as his "functionaries" with his small favors he asks us all the time. When he's being disgustingly arrogant/critical/sarcastic and when I stand up for myself, he proclaims i'm being disrespectful/rebel and that I'm challenging his "fathering/power". When I complain about his "dark jokes" he says "absolve" it, or you're too sensitive. He wants to be complimented, yet he never compliments, much the opposite, he puts you down all the time!

He's TRYING to program me to be submissive which is something my nature doesnt allow me to. I wish I could dump his ass!

Narcissism is toxic and this sucks!

 

[Matt Rogers]

Be careful guys, egotism and narcissism are very different things. Everyone to some extent is an egotist but not everyone is a narcissist. The odd thing about narcissism is that it isn't conceitedness, as Dirtheart described so well. If anything it is insecurity and perfectionism. We want to look like an Adonis and be centre of attention at all times, and if we aren't we feel awful about it. While career etc is some of it, for a lot of men it is about beauty, physique etc. Narcissists are unable to accept themselves

Healthy self-esteem: such as Pook's I am the prize attitude is much better. When you feel good about yourself you are then able to forget about yourself and think about other people more.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Be careful!

"Pook's I am the prize attitude is much better."

This mindset is good, BUT you must be careful with this.

The problem is when you focus just on the good side!

There're some people that use the "I'm the prize" mindset, but FORGET/DENY to upgrade themselves, to overcome their flaws and so on.

Like narcissists, they believe they're the "good ones/catch", and DENY their failures/mistakes in order to "sustain" the "I'm the prize" mindset/image.

The trap here is that you learn by making mistakes, thus if you deny you make mistakes, you're denying your own "evolution". It's like a labyrinth/spiral!

Knowlegde, sometimes, can be a double-edged sword!

 

[bob2007]

"

Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by self-centeredness. Like histrionic disorder, people with this disorder seek attention and praise. They exaggerate their achievements, expecting others to recongize them as being superior. They tend to be choosy about picking friends, since they believe that not just anyone is worthy of being their friend. They tend to make good first impressions, yet have difficulty maintaining long-lasting relationships. They are generally uninterested in the feelings of others and may take advantage of them. "

lol that is so me.

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Bump and lets dump all narcissists!

 

[A-Unit]

Re:

The Ego has many components, narcissism being an affliction, or self-love to the 'n' power. I have friends like this, and some ways, I was like that.

My own 'expectations' created a lack of happiness. Often times I expected certain things of life, as if it operated so logically. Sometimes, it isn't so bad because I've nexted girls who turned out to be slutty, crazy, or downright gamers with no good intentions. Fine.

Self superiority is a good cover up for fear of being evaluated, and weakness over the inner core. If you con yourself into believing you're superior, even if another person is in better or shape, or makes more money, or appears to be with a better looking girl, you're not so ashamed of yourself having the same things because you believe you're better and don't need that.

Why study the problem? I went to the solution.

The ego is very evaluative and controlling. It's a disease of society, where we RANK things. Piece of our life have value when they're ranked. Someone is good looking ONLY if lesser looking people exist, AND, in some people's the estimation of beauty is all relevant to the eyes of the beholder. This is why guys lose their power to a HOT WOMAN because the ego invades your thinking path and says:

"I must have her. My self-worth depends upon it. And if she doesn't like me, then she must have been flawed. It couldn't possibly be ME!"

Instead of thinking:

"She's attractive, I could see myself enjoying her presence IF she seems like a worthwhile person to engage."

Daoism dips into this heavily, as does Alan Watts and Stuart Wilde, amongst other philosophers.

I liken the Ego or Narcissism as a plug into Society, much like Neo was plugged into a matrix with artificial beliefs and ideas NOT HIS own running through his mind. On the other hand, a more Spiritual outlook will subvert this idea of Self-Importance to the extreme by realizing we're all of some, same essence. Without getting technical, it exists, and there's more components to the being than just the thoughts that crop up in the mind. Quieting the ego requires SHIFTING to a whole new line of thinking, and not just fixing an immense problem.

I started asking myself WHY on alot of what I did. What would I need a Movado over a Citizen. Sure, it's nice, but if I can lump that extra dollars into R/E or investments or business or my education and grow that dollar amount, I could have a Rolex NEXT Year, for my reasons, and not for reasons that it would look trendy at a club or would appear professional.

Like WHY do we need a PS2 and XBOX? It depreciates, and it detracts time from sports, reading, business, family, women, working out, networking, and so forth. NEEDING those items was merely an extension of some IMAGE of the ego or some NEED to feel comfy IN SOCIETY. So I didn't get anything else.

I took a deeper step back and stopped evaluating based on external factors. And you might think that's easy, but the mind has a great way of jumping to a first impression as if IT'S OK. To have to consciously guard your social image is a disease of the ego. It's a belief YOU ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH to handle it on the inside. BAH!

It's ok to improve on women, but the only currency we can truly spend, which we own in life is time. And if you're spending time on scoring women, YOU ARE not spending time on your career, WITH WOMEN, with family, or anything else. I read alot of dating, NLP, hypnosis, seduction, daoism, and so forth intersparsed through reading for my career and I aim to improve as a UNIT, not in just one area. That's imbalance.

People can tell and react negatively to people who believe in utter self-importance. I look at a guy like Trump, who is quite a grandiose self-promoter, yet he gives back quite to charities and fundraising, and even the deals he goes after are a function of how tough it is to tackle, and not quite his inflated ego. Though it's TV when he's on the apprentice, Trump is still quite deft about how he handles situations. Some stars do give back, and aren't afraid to realize our sameness.

The other factor to realize is that life isn't success or failure, it's results oriented. It's getting a positive or negative. You haven't failed truly, you've only found 1 way not to do it. So what, move on to trying again. Keep trying, that's how a master makes it.



A_Unit

 

[Blue Phoenix]

Originally posted by A-Unit
The Ego has many components, narcissism being an affliction, or self-love to the 'n' power. I have friends like this, and some ways, I was like that.

My own 'expectations' created a lack of happiness. Often times I expected certain things of life, as if it operated so logically. Sometimes, it isn't so bad because I've nexted girls who turned out to be slutty, crazy, or downright gamers with no good intentions. Fine.

Self superiority is a good cover up for fear of being evaluated, and weakness over the inner core. If you con yourself into believing you're superior, even if another person is in better or shape, or makes more money, or appears to be with a better looking girl, you're not so ashamed of yourself having the same things because you believe you're better and don't need that.

Why study the problem? I went to the solution.

The ego is very evaluative and controlling. It's a disease of society, where we RANK things. Piece of our life have value when they're ranked. Someone is good looking ONLY if lesser looking people exist, AND, in some people's the estimation of beauty is all relevant to the eyes of the beholder. This is why guys lose their power to a HOT WOMAN because the ego invades your thinking path and says:

"I must have her. My self-worth depends upon it. And if she doesn't like me, then she must have been flawed. It couldn't possibly be ME!"

Instead of thinking:

"She's attractive, I could see myself enjoying her presence IF she seems like a worthwhile person to engage."

Daoism dips into this heavily, as does Alan Watts and Stuart Wilde, amongst other philosophers.

I liken the Ego or Narcissism as a plug into Society, much like Neo was plugged into a matrix with artificial beliefs and ideas NOT HIS own running through his mind. On the other hand, a more Spiritual outlook will subvert this idea of Self-Importance to the extreme by realizing we're all of some, same essence. Without getting technical, it exists, and there's more components to the being than just the thoughts that crop up in the mind. Quieting the ego requires SHIFTING to a whole new line of thinking, and not just fixing an immense problem.

I started asking myself WHY on alot of what I did. What would I need a Movado over a Citizen. Sure, it's nice, but if I can lump that extra dollars into R/E or investments or business or my education and grow that dollar amount, I could have a Rolex NEXT Year, for my reasons, and not for reasons that it would look trendy at a club or would appear professional.

Like WHY do we need a PS2 and XBOX? It depreciates, and it detracts time from sports, reading, business, family, women, working out, networking, and so forth. NEEDING those items was merely an extension of some IMAGE of the ego or some NEED to feel comfy IN SOCIETY. So I didn't get anything else.

I took a deeper step back and stopped evaluating based on external factors. And you might think that's easy, but the mind has a great way of jumping to a first impression as if IT'S OK. To have to consciously guard your social image is a disease of the ego. It's a belief YOU ARE NOT STRONG ENOUGH to handle it on the inside. BAH!

It's ok to improve on women, but the only currency we can truly spend, which we own in life is time. And if you're spending time on scoring women, YOU ARE not spending time on your career, WITH WOMEN, with family, or anything else. I read alot of dating, NLP, hypnosis, seduction, daoism, and so forth intersparsed through reading for my career and I aim to improve as a UNIT, not in just one area. That's imbalance.

People can tell and react negatively to people who believe in utter self-importance. I look at a guy like Trump, who is quite a grandiose self-promoter, yet he gives back quite to charities and fundraising, and even the deals he goes after are a function of how tough it is to tackle, and not quite his inflated ego. Though it's TV when he's on the apprentice, Trump is still quite deft about how he handles situations. Some stars do give back, and aren't afraid to realize our sameness.

The other factor to realize is that life isn't success or failure, it's results oriented. It's getting a positive or negative. You haven't failed truly, you've only found 1 way not to do it. So what, move on to trying again. Keep trying, that's how a master makes it.

A_Unit

What's this? A Phd thesis?

I didn't get your point A-unit! Are you saying you're favourable to narcissism?

 

[DJDamage]

"Narcissistic personality disorder is characterized by self-centeredness. Like histrionic disorder, people with this disorder seek attention and praise. They exaggerate their achievements, expecting others to recongize them as being superior. They tend to be choosy about picking friends, since they believe that not just anyone is worthy of being their friend. They tend to make good first impressions, yet have difficulty maintaining long-lasting relationships. They are generally uninterested in the feelings of others and may take advantage of them."


Sounds exectly like someone I used to DATE!! yes being one is one thing but dating a chick like that is another.

 

[A-Unit]

Quite the Opposite.

I think the ego and all its various components are what drive us nuts. Most afflictions of the person are derived from the ego, or the believe that this be all and end all center of human support is truth in our lives.

It afflicted me in many ways, from intellect to women. And then I just shut it down. The ego is like a drug trip. It's high when you keep it pacified, but its low when you're not placating it. Alot of times I'd find myself craving something for unknown reasons, feeling happy, then losing the enthusiasm. I looked past that into a more spiritual approach where I could balance my desires and drives.

I've had long talks with women on this overlooking the city Lights of Boston to really get a unique perspective on how people think and feel deep down, underneath all the day to day crap we deal with. Even friends, too, it's quite inspiring.

When I was making my point, I'm dumbfounded why people go throw long psychology sessions to fix problems. As Pook points out:

As you think, you shall become.

Well, if you're constantly dwelling on what happened, rather than moving forward, your entire life is consumed with negative feelings. How can that be productive? How can anyone get better? There's something to say about making progress by going back on past hurts, but reliving past ills will only damage the Self-Image more, as you will see that you might have been worthless because you've been abused. That's just an example. But bathing yourself in the ills of the past seems unproductive when compared to other means of fixing problems.




A-Unit

 

[ScrewIt]

a possible cure?

I didnt realize it was a disorder and a name until now, till i took psych this semester.

After reading this post, i realize i was somewhat narcissistic in the past. Self Conscious, worried about what others thought of me, and generally shy in new surroundings and with ppl.

you might say this a major factor of the nice guy... as he does things for the approval of others.

One of my friends who's 25, is a little narcisist. he still cant help being self conscious, and when i look at him, he looks like he has a lot of thoughts going through his head...

But all that is behind me. you could say im pretty much cured of this.
I dont know what techniques one could follow that could insure a cure for those who are like this but usually with me is, i dont care about what others think, say what i want and wear what i want. If my hair is messed up after taking off my hat, then so be it, whether its w/ friends or at work or in class.

so basically do the opposite of what defines a narcisist.
dont care (stop worrying)
Be independent - do your own thing
Be confident - *Key, as i believe once you have this, the rest will go away
be yourself
stop thinking so much (i used to do this a lot, and when i did this, i always had a expression on my face which made me look angry, a reason why most ppl were afraid to talk to me)
do what you want, say what you want, when u want, but not for others approval, yet your own.
You're not the king, you dont have to be perfect, no one does. if your hair isnt perfect or you have a zit, so be it, it's life, you're not the only one with those problems, others have it worse than you.
talk to anyone, everyone (dont be picky, i know i used to be)

 

[Matt Rogers]

congratulations screw-it. You seem to have made significant strides to conquering narcissism. I only wish i could have the same success. I shall try and follow your approach and change my thought habits as that is the only way to change my life. Unfortunately the habits of self-consciousness and thinking too much are deeply ingrained in my personality so may take a bit of work.

Damn, this inner game stuff is hard. I am an intelligent guy and can "get" the ****y and funny pretty easily, understand girls much better, and have got the hang of how to flirt and talk to girls. I am a good actor and can put on a confident front and hide my insecurities pretty well-but i am sure they show. But it is proving to be a tough battle to overcome my insecurities, excessive self-consciousness and belief the world centres around me.

 

[ScrewIt]

Originally posted by Matt Rogers
congratulations screw-it. You seem to have made significant strides to conquering narcissism. I only wish i could have the same success. I shall try and follow your approach and change my thought habits as that is the only way to change my life. Unfortunately the habits of self-consciousness and thinking too much are deeply ingrained in my personality so may take a bit of work.

Damn, this inner game stuff is hard. I am an intelligent guy and can "get" the ****y and funny pretty easily, understand girls much better, and have got the hang of how to flirt and talk to girls. I am a good actor and can put on a confident front and hide my insecurities pretty well-but i am sure they show. But it is proving to be a tough battle to overcome my insecurities, excessive self-consciousness and belief the world centres around me.

matt -

I assume you analyze things a lot? well that was one of my major problems. anyone that i saw, or situation i was in, i would overanalyze it and make quick judgements. "i dont like him, he acts like a ****, she's a lazy *****...
well All that was poison for hte mind, it fueled narcisism more with that type of thinking.

But anyway, narcisism is built strongly into one's personality, changing is easier said than done. and honestly, it wont be easy to change unless someone WANTS to get out of that state.

I dont know if this is exactly what happened, but i know this took part in helping cure narcisssm.

ACT AND YOU SHALL BECOME. There was this interested dude in one of my classes. As i got to know him he seemed to be the laid-back type, speaks clearly, coherently, and straight to the point. He didnt care about what ppl thought of him and spoke what wanted.

BAM guess what hit me? I admired the strenght of his character and personality, i wanted to be like that too.

since then until now, i incorporated much of his traits into my personality because i wanted change. My interactions with people slowly became more like his. and the way i dressed was more freely, i never wore a hoodie, a hat, nor a cap until now.
there are probably other influences other than his, but i strived for change and wanted to have true confidence (NOT the faked confidence used to cover my insecurities)

BUT
everynow and then, i had a taste of what it meant to be a non narcisist. The sleepless nights i had and having to wake up for morning class with a cup of coffee. During this very moment, I was temporarily cured.

i didnt give a crap about anything, cause i was so god damn sleepy and didnt have the energy to even be narcisist.

Although this was temporary, i knew how it felt...and it was gooooood.

LOOK AT YOU (in this case another narcisist) AND REALIZE HIS FLAWS.

One of my friends has a friend that comes hang out iwth us every once in awhile. He's an extreme. When he's walking, he looks down with an angry look on his face, he looks tense (uptight). Better yet, he looks ilke he's about to blow up and kill someone any minute. Although in reality he's very self conscios, lacks confidence, has an ugly gf, and talking for him is very tense & fast.
Whenever he'd come hang out with us, neither I nor my friend woudl talk to him much. He already looks uptight and angry, who'd want to talk to him. Would YOU?

want more examples? here it is -
this girl in my class is somewhat narcisistic and anyone who looks at her can tell she's uptight. no one wants to talk to her, or are afraid to (she might take it too seriously?)
Anyway my ****y profesor as always swears and calls ppl loser and critiques design work of his students as usual. he even swears at me usually. he likes to joke around with us. With this chick, he wont do it one bit cause he's afraid she'll break down and cry or something!!!
the thing is he's afraid she'll take it seriously and personally.

So i got a chance to see how people interacted with him and how he interacted with others. And i came to realization why my friends barely talked to me in the past. CUZ I USED TO BE LIKE THAT!!

So to sum it up -

LOOK AT YOU. Look at another narcisist and how he interacts with people, it will give you a clear window view of how you really may be.

ACT AND YOU WILL BE. Find someone you want to be like or admire and Mimic his actions and personality. remember, Body language, facial expression (eyes, eyebrows, lips), the way you speak, the WAY YOU THINK (most important factor) is what must be changed.

HAVE FUN DONT TAKE LIFE SO SERIOUSLY! (oen of my problems in the past) someone would make a joke (about me) and i would take it too seriously. but now i just joke back with them and laugh. life is too short!

a small part of your personality will remain with you, as no personalty can change 100% completely. But it's up to you to how far you want to take the change!!

Good Luck and if you have any questions, pm me or something.