My self-improvement program

[snowdog]

Yea the conversation wasn't amazing but with heavy eye contact and lots of smiling, it is still a decent percentage shot to take. Good stuff snowdog

Thanks!

Igetit, I'd like to know how you would handle the situation. How in what direction would you steer the conversation?

 

[Igetit!]

Igetit, I'd like to know how you would handle the situation. How in what direction would you steer the conversation?

Well,this is a loaded question. Take a look at your conversation with this girl. It's boring. You weren't really talking about anything. You've been here long enough to know that women are emotional. They want to "feel". Also,they want to know that there is some type of connection there. This convo you had with her seemed more like a monologue,almost like a teacher standing in front of his class talking trying to get his students to join in the conversation. If you had connected with her through what you were saying on a emotional level,then she would have happily contributed to the conversation. In fact,she wouldn't have been able to not talk. You should have just launched into talking to her assuming that she'd join in.

For example,if someone were to start talking to me about hockey,I'd probably have responded that same way this girl did to you. However,if you bring up bowling,which I absolutely love,then my face would light up,and I'd probably take over the conversation,even though the other person started it.
Now people have many,many different hobbies and interest,and you won't know what particular interest a woman might have simply by approaching her.
But there are some things that universally everybody (both male and female) can connect on. For example,if I were to telling a story about me getting my driver's license,about how I studied and studied,and how nervous I was,and how I was shaking when they called my name. Everybody can relate to this. You tell a girl this about yourself,then she'll feel compelled to share her own story about getting her license because she can relate.

That's all you need,just a foot in the door. Just some type of connection.

Now look,you can't just approach some woman at a counter and start telling about getting you license,you know that. The point is just to start talking in the beginning WITH OUT ASKING QUESTIONS!!! You can ask questions after the connect is made. If you do it before,you'll telegraph interest. It'll be like you like her,but you're beating around the bush because you're scared.

Here's another thing that may help you out:Whatever it is that you want from a girl,first,YOU must possess it FIRST. I repeat:What ever it is you want from her,you must already have it in yourself first.
So it goes like this:if you want her to be warm and friendly,then first you must be warm and friendly. If you want her to open up about herself,then first,you must open up about yourself. If you want her to be energeitc and talkative,then first,you be energetic and talkative.
Project out from yourself what you want. If a lot of your interactions with women seem awkward and forced,it's because you're being awkward and forcing things.

Man,I'm tired. I have a lot more to say,but my fingers need a rest.

Anyway,good luck with your program,and I'll check in on the journal later.

 

[snowdog]

Thanks for those insights. It's good stuff I can use for sure!

 

[2Pac_Makaveli]

Well,this is a loaded question. Take a look at your conversation with this girl. It's boring. You weren't really talking about anything. You've been here long enough to know that women are emotional. They want to "feel".

Very good advice here, my friend. It's no good really asking her general questions, give her signals that you're interested, the best one being holding eye contact for longer than she can.

Hey man, a little tip to up the game, something you could have done different was to wink at her as she enters the room and give a subtle grin. She will instantly know there is interest. I mean hey, girls aren't psychic and don't always know your intentions and if you catch them off guard chances are it will go tits up. IMO a wink and "Hey Babe" would suffice as a greeting in a lowered tone of voice. It's not too sleazy.

In my experience playfulness goes a long way with a girl, give her a challenge, give her a bit of banter, don't sound like any other guy she's met that day. Make her feel Ask her a daring question like " Does my bum look big in these shorts?" or something along those lines, it will show her that you are a funny guy, something about 96% of girls look for in a guy.

I find it's good to ask a lot of casual questions like "So, you up to much, this weekend?" You can find out about what activities she likes doing, and remember them for next time.

Showing an interest in girls by asking casual, non intruding questions about their life is good because they tend to go on and on and on and on and on about themselves, becuase girls are like that and this will help the convo flow easier and thus a bigger connection between yourselves is formed which will give you a more solid foundation when it comes to asking her out on a date. Just a thought.

I've read a lot of your posts and big respect to you for dedicating yourself to posting, even when weeks go by with no feedback. Much love.:rockon:

 

[snowdog]

Thanks for the feedback man.

Long time no post. I've just been really busy that's all. I feel like I repaired the damage that was done to me. I regained my confidence and myself. There is still one thing to fix though. I'm still working on it, just so you know. The reason I didn't post for a long time is that I would keep posting the same stuff like "I flirted with this hot girl bla bla bla".

When I have something really worthwhile, I promise it will be here the same day.

12,760

 

[Wynston]

Thanks for the feedback man.

Long time no post. I've just been really busy that's all. I feel like I repaired the damage that was done to me. I regained my confidence and myself. There is still one thing to fix though. I'm still working on it, just so you know. The reason I didn't post for a long time is that I would keep posting the same stuff like "I flirted with this hot girl bla bla bla".

When I have something really worthwhile, I promise it will be here the same day.

12,760

Just wanna tell you mate, love your posts, you could make a film!! haha I'm in a rock band myself I'm the lead singer and being a short guy, its awesome you feel like the tallest guy in the world for the time you're on stage and every chick is looking at you!!

Wynston shakes your hand.. You are an inspiration to all these people, keep em coming!!

Right i'm off out on the pull!!!

 

[snowdog]

Alright! I think it's really cool you guys replied like this. It has changed my descision. From now on I'll keep posting the little stuff as well. I have a nice positive update as well as a negative one. First the bad:

Yea, it was a long time ago when I felt how I feel now. I actually feel ****ty because of a girl.

Here’s the story. The really pretty and cool girl from my class I talked a couple of times about in my past posts, it’s about her. Last night we went out with the entire class.

Long story short, she’s currently probably hooking up with another guy from my class who is a cool guy and my friend, but I still feel like sh*t. It just sucks. It's because I actually like this girl. She has a good personality and she's pretty. A girl easy to get a crush on, and I kinda had for about half a year. She has a boyfriend for a couple of years, so I never really tried anything serious with her.


Anyway, f*ck it. I'll feel better tomorrow any maybe even don't care about it anymore. I'll post the good stuff tomorrow, which sure is some fun stuff to read. I promise! I'm too drunk and tired right now.

Good night all

 

[snowdog]

Alright, here is the rest of the story. Back to earlier that day. I had slept for two hours that night and was at school at 8.15AM. I studied for 45 minutes, went to my classes and was finally done around 13.30. These were these workshop classes given by other students. All the different classes mixed up, so I met a lot of new people. I shamelessly flirted like crazy with every hot girl in the classes. They flirted back and liked it. I'm good at flirting now, actually. All of them responded positive.

Every time the class was over I wanted to ask for a number, but I didn't. I don't mean to use it as a sh*tty excuse, but the fact that I had so little sleep really didn't help. Everyone just walked out of class, and the students who organised the workshop stayed. Everytime it was one of those organizers that I flirted with. The main reason I didn't do anything is that I didn't knew how to go for a number there and then. They were in a group of 5 or so with their classmates, and it would be weird to just ask her in front of everyone for that. It probably wouldn't work either because girls almost never give their number when others are around. Anyone got any tips for me for these sort of situations?

So, lots of flirting, but no numbers. Story of my life by now. That left me a little frustrated. This lasted from 9.00 till 13.30 and I studied till 15.00 for an exam that lasted till 17.00 (I aced it). So yea, I was a wreck after that.


Then I had to go out with my classmates in the evening. I was destroyed but went anyway because I promised. I was drunk after my 4th beer and was feeling like sh*t. We were sitting at some table and one of the chicks from class shot some whipcream from her desert at me with a spoon. On the one hand it sort of flattered me, on the other hand it sucked; that b*tch f*cking threw whipcream at me. I kept drinking. I actually thought drinking more alcohol might help me feel better. Later on I would conclude that I was wrong. As we walked out of the restaurant I slapped her on the ass.

We went to some club. As we walked on the street a classmate of mine was heavily flirting with the really hot chick from my class (who's still taken by the way), having his arm around her, making jokes that she really seemed to enjoy. It made me feel bad. Jealous, actually. Later on I jokingly made a gesture we should hold arms. At that moment everyone was joking around and it didn't seem inappropriate; it was an innocent little flirt. And she rejected me. She said "No, I don't want to". I jokingly said "baby, you're hurting me". She didn't seem to find it funny. I always start out great with chicks, but when they know me for a while I seem to f*cking repell them. What is it with me?

We walk into the club (free entrance that night), I felt like sh*t and wanted to go home but the guys dragged me in and promised me free beer. So in I went. At the entrance booth there were two chicks. They wanted to see my ID. I took out my wallet and stuggled to get the card out. It's hard to do even when you're not thrashed. As I'm having trouble with the card one of the girls says: "you gotta be kidding me". She says it to me like I'm some f*cking idiot. She has lots of piercings in her face, and also one in her gums above her front theeth! I directly had an awesome comeback: "I was just about to say that to you with all that sh*t in your face and in your gums". She opened her mouth to say something but nothing came out. I just laughed about her non-reaction and walked away. One of the guys from my class saw it happen. Although he thought it was funny, he said:

• 
  Classmate: "Man, you're really direct".
  Me: "Yea, but she was talking sh*t"
  Classmate: "Yea but it's better to take some sh*t from the ladies, or else they'll close the door for you"
  Me: "I'm sorry man, you're probably right, but that's just not me"

My ego is too big to take sh*t, from anyone. Especially from some dumb broad selling tickets at some club. I've taken too much sh*t from too many people all my life to let things go so easily. No one f*cks with me anymore. Especially not when I'm drunk. When people get smart with me, I turn into a sarcastic ass-hole.

It was relatively early in the evening so there was almost no one. There we stood, a little group of eight in an almost empty club. It was dark, with bright colored lights flashing and loud techno beats playing. It f*cking depressed me. I finished my beer, said goodbye to everyone and got the f*ck outta there.


On the night bus home I couldn't believe how it bothered me that the hot chick from my class was flirting so hard with another guy. I mean, she's taken for christ sake, why should I care? On the 30-minute walk from the bus station to home I almost got into a fight with a group of wiggers. They were walking towards me and one of them deliberately bumped into me. He said HEY. I told him to f*ck off as I kept walking. They turned around and came walking around me. There were four of them. It almost escalated but it didn't. It was funny actually. Without looking at any of them as I kept walking: "Look guys, I'm having a bad night. Just leave me the f*ck alone, ok?". They didn't knew what to do with it and got bored and took off. I honestly didn't care if they would try to beat me up. I was just too tired and ruined to care. Now I realize I was lucky. I was an easy target. Everyone loses a four to one fight, even when they're not drunk and tired.

The next day when I was over my hangover I gave it some more thought. Then I decided I should just drop it and forget it alltogether. I just gotta carry on this program to make it work. Sh*t like that doesn't help anyone. I'm going to continue what I'm doing and not be bothered by this bullsh*t.

Gotta end this post with a positive remark.


p.s.
Normally I don't write so much in detail about the stuff that doesn't concern girls. I just thought you guys might find at least some of it funny.

p.s. 2
not that it should matter, but the guy from class told me nothing happened between him and the girl. Oh well.


12,948

 

[Igetit!]

I shamelessly flirted like crazy with every hot girl in the classes. They flirted back and liked it. I'm good at flirting now, actually. All of them responded positive.

I have a question for you here. You say you "shamelessly flirted" with the girls in these classes. What do you mean by that? What exactly do you do when you flirt? Be specific. I'm asking this because you say they responded positively,yet somewhere else in this reply you say "lots of flirting,but no numbers. Story of my life by now".
If you're doing all this flirting,yet you get no numbers,then maybe these girls aren't responding as positiely as you think. There's a lot of talk about IOIs here on the forum,but me personally,the only IOIs I care about is:
1:She says yes when I ask her out,and
2:She actually shows up on the date.

I don't care about her flipping her hair,or her touching me,or her laughing and giggling. That's just me.

Every time the class was over I wanted to ask for a number, but I didn't. I don't mean to use it as a sh*tty excuse, but the fact that I had so little sleep really didn't help. Everyone just walked out of class, and the students who organised the workshop stayed. Everytime it was one of those organizers that I flirted with. The main reason I didn't do anything is that I didn't knew how to go for a number there and then. They were in a group of 5 or so with their classmates, and it would be weird to just ask her in front of everyone for that. It probably wouldn't work either because girls almost never give their number when others are around. Anyone got any tips for me for these sort of situations?

I understand what you're saying here. It's best not to ask a girl for here number in front of other people. Even if she likes you,she may turn you down simply because she doesn't want to seem "easy" to her friends and other people.

So, lots of flirting, but no numbers. Story of my life by now. That left me a little frustrated.

Ah...here it is. I knew that comment was around here somewhere. Ok,this thing you said about all flirting with no numbers,and it being the story of your life let's me know that this situation has happened to you many times before. How many times did you have to touch a hot stove before you learned it wasn't a good idea? It only took me once. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again,and you keep getting the same negative,bad results over and over again,then here's a suggestion:TRY SOMETHING ELSE!!! If whatever it is you're doing keeps leading you to no numbers/the story of your life/you being left frustated,then STOP doing what you're doing and do something else.

Let me give you an example of something I did a long time ago:
What I used to do whenever I approached a girl,asked her out or asked for her number,and her response was "I have a boyfriend",what I'd normally say to that was "ok" and "I understand",and "Alright,well it was nice to meet you".

So one day,I had an idea. I decided to try something different,something I ususally wouldn't normally do. So the next time I ran into a girl I was interested in,she was at a checkout counter in a store,and here's how the conversation went down:

Me:You don't have a ring on your finger. Good. So when are we going out?
Her:I have a boyfriend.
Me: (in a more direct,stern voice) I didn't ask you if you had a boyfriend,I ASKED YOU when we're going out.
Her:Well...I'm going to (name of a club) tonight.

Now when this happen,I WAS SHOCKED. I never had anything like this happen to me before. You know why? Because I had never approached a girl like that before. I approached in a way I had never approached before,therefore,I got a response I had never gotten before. You need to branch out dude. Quit doing the same thing only to get the same dull,frustating results over and over again. How long do you want to do this?

We went to some club. As we walked on the street a classmate of mine was heavily flirting with the really hot chick from my class (who's still taken by the way), having his arm around her, making jokes that she really seemed to enjoy. It made me feel bad. Jealous, actually.

Instead of feeling jealous,maybe you should observe him and learn from him. Afterall,this is a self-improvement journal,right? Watch the dude's bodylanguage and the way he interacts with women. If he made you jealous,that means that something he did or the way the women responded is something you'd like to do or the way you'd like women to respond to you. Don't hate on the dude simply because he can interact with women the way you'd like to be able to do.

I always start out great with chicks, but when they know me for a while I seem to f*cking repell them. What is it with me?

Nothing. Not a thing. Nothing is wrong with you. The only thing I see is this:
1:You have a lack of understanding about how attraction works for women. They're not like us man.
2:You may have a little insecrity/self-esteem problem. But everyone struggles with that from time to time.

We walk into the club (free entrance that night), I felt like sh*t and wanted to go home but the guys dragged me in and promised me free beer. So in I went. At the entrance booth there were two chicks. They wanted to see my ID. I took out my wallet and stuggled to get the card out. It's hard to do even when you're not thrashed. As I'm having trouble with the card one of the girls says: "you gotta be kidding me". She says it to me like I'm some f*cking idiot. She has lots of piercings in her face, and also one in her gums above her front theeth! I directly had an awesome comeback: "I was just about to say that to you with all that sh*t in your face and in your gums". She opened her mouth to say something but nothing came out. I just laughed about her non-reaction and walked away.

This is a trip man. It's just like I said before:there's nothing wrong with you. You already have the answers you seek inside of you,and you don't even realize it. How funny. This same no crap taking,bold,side of you you expressed to this girl with all those piercings is the side of you you should present to girls you like. My guess is that you hide this side from them in order to not offend them. That's a mistake. Get this what I'm about to say:Offending someone DOES NOT KILL ATTRACTION. If you see a hot girl who you're attracted to,if she says something to offend you,do you no longer feel sexually attracted to her? It's the same thing with women. You've heard stories of a man beating,cheating on,mentally and verbally abusing a woman,and no matter how much her friends tell her to leave the relationship,she won't do it.
If a man beating,cheating on,and abusing a woman won't kill her attraction for him,then I don't think an unintentionally remark that offends her will do it either.
Just be open to new ideas and trying new things even,even if it doesn't make any sense to you. What do you have to lose? You don't seem to be happy with the way things are now,so if you try something else and it doesn't work,you won't be out anything.

Peace man.

 

[Tenzen]

They were in a group of 5 or so with their classmates, and it would be weird to just ask her in front of everyone for that. It probably wouldn't work either because girls almost never give their number when others are around. Anyone got any tips for me for these sort of situations?

I just ran into the same problem last week, a friend suggested why not slip them a note with your phone number on it, =). i have yet to try it.

 

[snowdog]

I have a question for you here. You say you "shamelessly flirted" with the girls in these classes. What do you mean by that? What exactly do you do when you flirt? Be specific. I'm asking this because you say they responded positively,yet somewhere else in this reply you say "lots of flirting,but no numbers. Story of my life by now".
If you're doing all this flirting,yet you get no numbers,then maybe these girls aren't responding as positiely as you think. There's a lot of talk about IOIs here on the forum,but me personally,the only IOIs I care about is:
1:She says yes when I ask her out,and
2:She actually shows up on the date.

I don't care about her flipping her hair,or her touching me,or her laughing and giggling. That's just me.

First of all, thanks for all the advice man. I really appreciate it.

The girls in front of the class, I smiled at them and winked. I kept that up for half an hour. They all smiled back in a genuine way. After a while one of them actually reacted kinda shy to it. I could of course be wrong, but to me their body language looked like they genuinely enjoyed it. Sometimes they do it because it's polite, and I can tell it's fake. Maybe they're really good at faking? I'm a positive thinker though.

So I guess that don't count in your book. To me though, that sh*t is still huge. I was scared to talk to girls when I started this.

I understand what you're saying here. It's best not to ask a girl for here number in front of other people. Even if she likes you,she may turn you down simply because she doesn't want to seem "easy" to her friends and other people.

Yea, that's what I thought. It just felt akward, so I didn't bother to try.

Ah...here it is. I knew that comment was around here somewhere. Ok,this thing you said about all flirting with no numbers,and it being the story of your life let's me know that this situation has happened to you many times before. How many times did you have to touch a hot stove before you learned it wasn't a good idea? It only took me once. If you keep doing the same thing over and over again,and you keep getting the same negative,bad results over and over again,then here's a suggestion:TRY SOMETHING ELSE!!! If whatever it is you're doing keeps leading you to no numbers/the story of your life/you being left frustated,then STOP doing what you're doing and do something else.

Yes, you're right. But the thing is, I didn't even get to the part where I asked her number, or asked her out. I couldn't find the right situation. I know, it sounds stupid. I really wanted to though, and I would had done it if I could isolate them.

When I really like a girl and the situation feels right, I usually go for it.

Let me give you an example of something I did a long time ago:
What I used to do whenever I approached a girl,asked her out or asked for her number,and her response was "I have a boyfriend",what I'd normally say to that was "ok" and "I understand",and "Alright,well it was nice to meet you".

So one day,I had an idea. I decided to try something different,something I ususally wouldn't normally do. So the next time I ran into a girl I was interested in,she was at a checkout counter in a store,and here's how the conversation went down:

Me:You don't have a ring on your finger. Good. So when are we going out?
Her:I have a boyfriend.
Me: (in a more direct,stern voice) I didn't ask you if you had a boyfriend,I ASKED YOU when we're going out.
Her:Well...I'm going to (name of a club) tonight.

Haha that's cool man. I see what you're getting at.

Now when this happen,I WAS SHOCKED. I never had anything like this happen to me before. You know why? Because I had never approached a girl like that before. I approached in a way I had never approached before,therefore,I got a response I had never gotten before. You need to branch out dude. Quit doing the same thing only to get the same dull,frustating results over and over again. How long do you want to do this?

Not long anymore man. Like I said, I'm getting frustrated sometimes. Believe me, I'm a LOT better now then when I started out, but still... I feel like I should get some action right now. I'm in my twenties for god sakes. And it's not that I'm some ugly troll or have deformalities that would scare people away. Am an above-average looking guy that should get laid, period.

Instead of feeling jealous,maybe you should observe him and learn from him. Afterall,this is a self-improvement journal,right? Watch the dude's bodylanguage and the way he interacts with women. If he made you jealous,that means that something he did or the way the women responded is something you'd like to do or the way you'd like women to respond to you. Don't hate on the dude simply because he can interact with women the way you'd like to be able to do.

Yea, I did. He was just natural around her and it just worked. The guy is just really confident right to his core. A lot of people think I'm the most confident person in the world, but that's just a thin shell around me.

I didn't hate on the dude at all by the way. He's a good friend of mine, and I'm not the type of guy that *****es about this sort of thing. I'd congradulate him if he actually hooked up with her, and I'd be genuinely happy for him. I know how to deal with the fact that some (a lot) of guys are just better at this then me. Instead of being pissed off at the guy and feeling like sh*t, I learned myself to be happy for him and move on as quickly as possible.

In the previous post I said it really bothered me. Well, I was drunk. I always get more emotional when I'm drunk. Oh, and normally I don't drink a lot when I'm around girls. That night was an exception.

Nothing. Not a thing. Nothing is wrong with you.

Thanks man. Really, thanks. And I mean that.

The only thing I see is this:
1:You have a lack of understanding about how attraction works for women. They're not like us man.

That's a big one.

2:You may have a little insecrity/self-esteem problem. But everyone struggles with that from time to time.

That's an even bigger one. I had a pretty f*cked up childhood and that has to do with it. I'm seeing a therapist about that. We're fixing things and I've litterately improved 600% on this part the last half year.

I'm not trying to hide behind that though. I do know the only way to fix this whole thing is to work on it as hard as I can.

This is a trip man. It's just like I said before:there's nothing wrong with you. You already have the answers you seek inside of you,and you don't even realize it. How funny. This same no crap taking,bold,side of you you expressed to this girl with all those piercings is the side of you you should present to girls you like. My guess is that you hide this side from them in order to not offend them. That's a mistake. Get this what I'm about to say:Offending someone DOES NOT KILL ATTRACTION. If you see a hot girl who you're attracted to,if she says something to offend you,do you no longer feel sexually attracted to her? It's the same thing with women. You've heard stories of a man beating,cheating on,mentally and verbally abusing a woman,and no matter how much her friends tell her to leave the relationship,she won't do it.
If a man beating,cheating on,and abusing a woman won't kill her attraction for him,then I don't think an unintentionally remark that offends her will do it either.

Good point. I read that before and try to live by it. But sometimes my subconcionce just switches me back into that 'nice' mode. I'm indeed too scared sometimes I offend a girl.

Just be open to new ideas and trying new things even,even if it doesn't make any sense to you. What do you have to lose? You don't seem to be happy with the way things are now,so if you try something else and it doesn't work,you won't be out anything.

Peace man.

Again, thanks a bunch for taking the time to make a good reply like this. This is lots of stuff I can work on. I keep posting these stories because it's a nice way to vent. But I'm always secretly hoping for a post like this.

Thanks man



13,034

 

[Igetit!]

The girls in front of the class, I smiled at them and winked. I kept that up for half an hour. They all smiled back in a genuine way. After a while one of them actually reacted kinda shy to it. I could of course be wrong, but to me their body language looked like they genuinely enjoyed it. Sometimes they do it because it's polite, and I can tell it's fake. Maybe they're really good at faking? I'm a positive thinker though.

So this is what you meant by flirting. There's nothing wrong with this. Not my cup of tea,but hey,whatever works for you do it.

Yes, you're right. But the thing is, I didn't even get to the part where I asked her number, or asked her out. I couldn't find the right situation.

Yeah,I hear you on this one. It's good to wait for the right situation,but sometimes,YOU NEED to made the situation right.

When I really like a girl and the situation feels right, I usually go for it.

Agreed.

How long do you want to do this?

Not long anymore man. Like I said, I'm getting frustrated sometimes. Believe me, I'm a LOT better now then when I started out,

Well,is good to hear you're better off now than when you started,but just don't get complacent. There are higher heights and deeper depths in the world of dating/understanding women. We're all either trying to improve our dating lives,or maintain the current level of success we have. It's a neverending journey,but that's also what makes it exciting.

...it's not that I'm some ugly troll or have deformalities that would scare people away. Am an above-average looking guy that should get laid, period.

Come on man,you should know better than this. You're mentioning your appearance here. That's a newbie mistake. We,(us men) are attracted to a woman's appearance. We are. Women are attracted to a man based on how she feels when she's around him. Emotionally attracted,remember? Even if a guy is handsome,if she doesn't "feel" anything when she's in his presense,then lack of feelings will cancel out his good looks. I used to make this same mistake when I first started dealing with women. I'd see a woman with a guy who I thought wasn't that good-looking,then I'd say to myself,"Why is she with him? I'm 10 times better looking than he is". This is the same mistake that both men and women make with the opposite sex. Us men are attracted to how a woman looks,so we mistakenly think that women are attracted to how we look.

Women are attracted to man emotionally,so they think we're attracted to them emotionally. Then when things don't turn out the way we planned,we get confused and call each other crazy.

A lot of people think I'm the most confident person in the world, but that's just a thin shell around me.

Believe it or not,this can be easily fixed. It's too much to get into right now,but you just have to realize that you are who you are....independent of whether some chick who you've never seen before likes you or not. I know this may be hard to believe if you get rejected repeatedly by women,but it's true. I used to ask myself that question. I was like,"Well,if there's nothing wrong with me,if I really am a good person,then why do I keep getting turned down by women?
It really will make you think something is wrong with you. But what I discovered is that in reality,there really wasn't anything wrong with me.
"Ok,well if that's true,then why do I keep getting rejected?"
Simple. A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW ATTRACTION WORKS FOR WOMEN. They're not like us.

Let me give you an illustration that will help you out:Let's say I give you and your friend both recipes to make a cake,the exact same type of cake. I write down the same ingredients for both of you-3 cups of flour,4 eggs,2 tablespoons of sugar,etc. This is the correct recipe,but instead of putting 4 eggs on the recipe I wrote down for you,I write down 1. Now,although both of you are trying to accomplish the same end results,in the end his cake is delicoius,while yours looks weird and taste funny. The problem,is that your information is wrong. You're following the directions right. You're doing everything I wrote down for you to do,so the problem isn't you,it's the info you have. It's NOT YOU,you just have the wrong information. It doesn't matter how perfectly you follow my instructions,if those instructions are wrong,it won't turn out right. This is what causes frustration.

But sometimes my subconcionce just switches me back into that 'nice' mode. I'm indeed too scared sometimes I offend a girl.

Yeah,I'm all too familiar with that "nice guy" mode. Just continue to work on it. This is kind of a catch22 situation. You see what you said about being too scared to offend a girl? Well women sense this "too scaredness" and mistake it for a lack of confidence on your part. This is going to sound crazy,but it's true:you'd be better off being confident and offending a girl than being nervous,shaky,and scared and not offending her. Like I said,if a man can beat a woman upside her head,cheat on her,and emotionally torture her and she still not leave him,then I'm not worried about accidentally saying something that might hurt her feelings.

Just continue to work on self-esteem/confidence. That's paramount. The "how attraction work for women" thing need to be secondary. If you skip working on you confidence and just focus on the women,you'll more than likely just frustrate yourself.

Peace man.

 

[snowdog]

So this is what you meant by flirting. There's nothing wrong with this. Not my cup of tea,but hey,whatever works for you do it.

Yea, you know... How would you handle it?

Yeah,I hear you on this one. It's good to wait for the right situation,but sometimes,YOU NEED to made the situation right.

Easier said then done man. I tried thinking of all sorts of sh*t but I just don't know...

Well,is good to hear you're better off now than when you started,but just don't get complacent. There are higher heights and deeper depths in the world of dating/understanding women. We're all either trying to improve our dating lives,or maintain the current level of success we have. It's a neverending journey,but that's also what makes it exciting.

Definitely. I'd just wish my journey would go a little bit faster that's all.

Come on man,you should know better than this. You're mentioning your appearance here. That's a newbie mistake. We,(us men) are attracted to a woman's appearance. We are. Women are attracted to a man based on how she feels when she's around him. Emotionally attracted,remember? Even if a guy is handsome,if she doesn't "feel" anything when she's in his presense,then lack of feelings will cancel out his good looks. I used to make this same mistake when I first started dealing with women. I'd see a woman with a guy who I thought wasn't that good-looking,then I'd say to myself,"Why is she with him? I'm 10 times better looking than he is". This is the same mistake that both men and women make with the opposite sex. Us men are attracted to how a woman looks,so we mistakenly think that women are attracted to how we look.

Women are attracted to man emotionally,so they think we're attracted to them emotionally. Then when things don't turn out the way we planned,we get confused and call each other crazy.

Yea, true man. And I do know this. I've read it many times and I've seen it many times. The switch in my head isn't completely flipped there yet.

Believe it or not,this can be easily fixed. It's too much to get into right now,but you just have to realize that you are who you are....independent of whether some chick who you've never seen before likes you or not. I know this may be hard to believe if you get rejected repeatedly by women,but it's true. I used to ask myself that question. I was like,"Well,if there's nothing wrong with me,if I really am a good person,then why do I keep getting turned down by women?

Yea. Exactly. I'm still working hard to understand what's going on really, and you're really helping me with this.

It really will make you think something is wrong with you. But what I discovered is that in reality,there really wasn't anything wrong with me.
"Ok,well if that's true,then why do I keep getting rejected?"
Simple. A LACK OF UNDERSTANDING ABOUT HOW ATTRACTION WORKS FOR WOMEN. They're not like us.

I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW. But how DO they work? That's what I can't fully figure out yet.

Let me give you an illustration that will help you out:Let's say I give you and your friend both recipes to make a cake,the exact same type of cake. I write down the same ingredients for both of you-3 cups of flour,4 eggs,2 tablespoons of sugar,etc. This is the correct recipe,but instead of putting 4 eggs on the recipe I wrote down for you,I write down 1. Now,although both of you are trying to accomplish the same end results,in the end his cake is delicoius,while yours looks weird and taste funny. The problem,is that your information is wrong. You're following the directions right. You're doing everything I wrote down for you to do,so the problem isn't you,it's the info you have. It's NOT YOU,you just have the wrong information. It doesn't matter how perfectly you follow my instructions,if those instructions are wrong,it won't turn out right. This is what causes frustration.

I understand your point. Well said.

Yeah,I'm all too familiar with that "nice guy" mode. Just continue to work on it. This is kind of a catch22 situation. You see what you said about being too scared to offend a girl? Well women sense this "too scaredness" and mistake it for a lack of confidence on your part. This is going to sound crazy,but it's true:you'd be better off being confident and offending a girl than being nervous,shaky,and scared and not offending her. Like I said,if a man can beat a woman upside her head,cheat on her,and emotionally torture her and she still not leave him,then I'm not worried about accidentally saying something that might hurt her feelings.

Also very true stuff. I wish I could add or comment something more on it but I can't.

Just continue to work on self-esteem/confidence. That's paramount. The "how attraction work for women" thing need to be secondary. If you skip working on you confidence and just focus on the women,you'll more than likely just frustrate yourself.

Peace man.[/QUOTE]

That's a great tip man. Thanks a lot for pointing that one out.

I've said it before, you're giving me some awesome stuff to think about man.


Thank you.




13,138

 

[snowdog]

Fun little exchange when I was paying for my groceries. First there was a girl that went on a break that was exchanged with another one. Something was wrong with the computer or something, so the girl took off to fix it and told us to take another register. Behind that one was a pretty cute girl

Me: Looks like I scared two of your collegues off
Her: Oh no, It's not you, really
Me: reallly
Her (she laughed)
Me (smile back, eye contact)
Her: That'll be 13.10 please
Me: You want 10 cent with it?
Her: that would make me very happy
Me: and that's exactly what we want, don't we
Her: (some more laughing, eye contact)
Me: (same)

She loved it


I know that sh*t is pretty much on the right track. My post must be getting boring to you guys right now because it's all pretty much the same. Yes I'm flirting with grils, but that's only halfway there.

Anyway, I'll keep you guys posted.



13,352

 

[lpite]

I would like you to keep updating becasue I love FR's ok good luck man.
I noticed i was half rockin' during the conversation, but i ignored it and it got under control in time. lol.

 

[snowdog]

Alright, your wish is my command. This is a big one, you asked for it.




Story 1
Yesterday I went out with a good friend of mine. A little list of stuff that happened:

I was on the subway to the city. There was a hot girl sitting a few chairs forward facing me. There was also some guy who had this obnoxious rap music on his phone very loud. Everyone was annoyed by it and no one said anything. I tried to find some eyecontract with the girl. Once she noticed me I started nodding my head to the beat of the guy's phone while making a tough face. She laughed. The guy felt like an ass, and he deserved it. I had a couple of eye contract moments during the trip. I didn't approach her, this was enough for now.

Me and my buddy went to a couple of bars to talk a bit, we hadn't spoken for a while. We ended up in some club. There were a lot of hot girls there. I'm still awkward with dancing in clubs. After a while I just said "**** it" and started dancing. A group of girls enter the bar, and they are all very hot. They all wear hairbands. I ask one of the girls why, and she tells me she went to some party with a dresscode or something. It was your typical useless club conversation that lasted 30 seconds. Later on I was dancing and I was just having fun, I didn't care. I tried dancing back to back (don't ask me why, I don't know) but she gave me an elbow in my back. I turned around and asked while I laughed: "Did you just gave me an elbow?". She said: "Yes!". She looked pissed. What the f*ck did I do wrong? I guess I just don't know how to carry myself in clubs. I'm a good talker, not a good dancer.

Not many encounters that night, but I mainly went out to talk with my buddy. On the way home on the night bus there were 3 people who tried to sell drugs to me, and I saw a fistfight on the street. So the evening was still interesting enough.



Story 2
The next day (today) I got out of bed at noon. I went with my old man to one of those events where all kinds of new stuff gets shown. I'm sure there is a word for it in English, is it convention? This one was about anything to do with sailing. New boats, types of rudders, engines, lifejackets, indoor lights, anchors, GPS and navigation devices... you name it. It was huge, 3 halls, and they had put several huge yachts in them for the public to check out. I was a little hung over, so I was a little less sharp and responsive.


Part 1
At one of the stands there was this really cute blonde girl. She was selling subscribtions for some sailing magazine. We walked over there and she told us about it etc. It was a good deal, so my father took it and started filling in the form.

Me: So, you get provision if you sign up people?
(my dad started to laugh)
Her: (also laughing): No, I'm getting payed by the hour
Me: Ok. That's a good deal. How long is this place open?
Her: Till 20.00 (it was 14.00 at that time)
Me: Wow, you're a hard-ass
Her: (laughs some more) Noo, I just have to work till 18.00
Me: Ah alright. So it's not so bad then
Her: No, it's pretty good, but it's kinda busy
Me: This is busy?
Her: Yea, I think it is (it wasn't busy at all)
Me: Come on, this ain't so bad..., and I thought you were a hard-ass

We laughed some more. There was good eye contact, and she was smiling a lot. I thought this went pretty good. I didn't went for the close because my dad was standing next to me. Otherwise, maybe I would have.


Part 2
There was some massage bed demonstration. There were a bunch of these beds and several people were trying it out. You could lie on one of those things and try how it felt. I have a bad back and it especially hurts after a night of boozing; I felt like a cripple the whole day. I go lie down and the demonstration guy (good looking dude, but too fat) turns it on for me. Man, that sh*t feels good. It is awesome. It's amazing what it can do. I felt the tention slipping away. I wouldn't be suprised if the control pad also has a 'happy ending' button. My father was watching something else while I talked with the demonstration guy and now he's back, finding me on this massage thing. The demo guy says: "It'll be about 15 minutes". So my dad goes to check out some other stands on his own till I'm done.

A pretty hot girl comes walking into the stand. It turns out she also works here today. She gets the bed next to me, great!

Me: I warn you, you probably won't be able to stand up once you lie down
Her: What do you mean
Me: This ****....., is Amaaazzzziiiiinnnnnggggg (spreading my arms like I'm in heaven)
Her: (laughing) Yea, it does feel good. It's warm.
Me: So, you're also standing here selling stuff?
Her: Yea, insurance policies for boats. You interested in one
Me: Haha, no, I don't think I need one. I'll need a boat first. You standing here the whole week?
Her: On no, only today and the weekend. I'm in a hotel [is this a little hidden message? Sorry for sounding like a retard, but I'd like to know. It didn't seem anything special to me though, just a part of the conversation] that's payed by the company
Me: Oh really? You're not from here?
Her: No, I live in [place name]
Me: Ah, that's nice. I went there on holiday a couple of times. Good fun. Especially during the boat-races week
Her: Yea, but I don't really like the public during those days
Me: I understand what you mean, but still. There are plenty of good parties.
Her: That's true.
Me: So, you ever went to Rotterdam?
Her: Yea, one time only
Me: You liked it? Where did you went?
Her: (I don't remember what she told me)

By then the demo guy turned my bed off. I don't know why, it looked like he didn't like it I was chatting this girl up. I just sat up straight and continued the conversation

Me: I know this is sort of against the unwritten laws to say this, as someone who lives near Rotterdam, but I like Amsterdam more then Rotterdam if it comes to going out. Amsterdam is more of a city with bars, in Rotterdam, there are almost only clubs. I like bars more.
Her: (she found the first line really funny, I said it in some smart way that's hard to translate) Oh really? Where do you live then?
Me: I live in [place]. It's a sh*thole, really. The only thing good about it is, that it's close to Rotterdam.
Her: Oh ok, haha.
Me: So, is this your actual job, or are you in college?
Her: I'm in college. I'm doing this because this pays really good you know, I almost make 500 bucks over the weekend. I'm surrently studying (I can't remember)
Me: Ah alright. You're in a fraternity?
Her: No. You?
Me: No, I don't have the right personality for that.
Her: Same.

The demo guy also turned her bed off. He looked frustrated. What did I do? She got up and started to leave.

Me: Well, have a good selling those insurances
Her: Thanks.

We talk a little more and then my dad shows up. I ask where her stand is and she pointed in the direction.

With this girl, it felt like we really clicked. The conversation went smooth, and there was constantly eye contact, smiling etc. This girl seemed fun. We responded great on each other. It just felt right.


Part 3
Later that day when we were about to leave, me and my dad split up for a few minutes. He had to buy some underwater paint for the boat, and I went to visit the stands where I saw the girls again. First stand, no luck.

Me: Just a little question
Guy: Sure
Me: That cute little blonde collegue of yours, is she around?
Guy: No, she just left. Her workingday is over.
Me: Ah damn. I was hoping to score a telephone number. Oh well, thanks anyway.

The guy and another guy behind the stand started laughing. They thought I was cool. Or they thought I was just a funny idiot. Who knows, haha.

2nd stand, no luck either. I couldn't find her. I didn't ask the people there this time, I don't know why. I was tired.


Conclusion
No numbers, but still, I feel good about today. I'm noticing it keeps getting easier to flirt. I'm also much less obsessive about the whole girl thing; which makes me more relaxed and not so f*cking desperate, thus more attractive. I notice this. I can talk about basicly no real subject with strange girls that are hot.

And I can't believe it, that I keep improving on feeling better and being positive. I'm already 20 times more positive, confident and happy then I've ever been. The whole therapy thing definitely works for me. It's almost a year now, and people around me also say it's like I'm a different person. We're in the closing stages now, where the intervals in-between sessions become longer. First 2 weeks, then 3 weeks, after that a month, etc...

Life's good guys. The reason this girl thing is taking so long for me is that there were so many f*cking things that I had to fix first. So technically speaking, I really started this journal about a month ago after I had a big breakthrough in therapy. After that, I'm finally ready for the whole girl thing.


And that's what has been holding me back for so long. Something in me, a tiny little voice, always told me I'm wasn't ready for it yet. But now I AM. :rockon:



13,698

 

[snowdog]

Thanks for reading, buddy.A funny update today!

I flirted with the radio DJ live on air today. Here is the story.

My favorite radio station is almost bankrupt. They are the only rock radio station in the country (can you believe it?), and thus, it's the only radio station I listen to. They have this event on the radio where you can ask them to play a song and pay for it. Any amount of money you like. Today it was presented by the two female DJ's that are on the station (the main one is really hot and has a sexy voice). I was driving and heard the show, and I decided to call them up.

• [beep beep]
  [*]Phone lady: hello this is the classic rock radio station
  [*]Me: Hi, I'm Snowdog
  [*]Phone lady: Hello snowdog, what are you calling for?
  [*]Me: I'd like to have you guys play a song for me, I'll pay for it
  [*]Phone lady: Alright, which song and how much money you want to pay?
  [*]Me: I'd like to hear "you could be mine" by Guns 'n Roses. I'm a poor college guy so I can only spare ten bucks
  [*]Phone lady: Any amount helps (people talk in the background, I wait)
  [*]Phone lady: Would you like to announce the song yourself?
  [*]Me: I'd love to!
  [*]Phone lady: Great, Snowdog, we'll call you back.
  [*]Me: Well I'm in the car, so I guess it's kinda illegal, but please do.
  [*]Phone lady: Haha, alright.

So, I'm driving along with the radio on, and 5 minutes later I get called.

• Phone lady: Alright, you'll be in the show after this song. Please turn off the volume of your radio.
• Me: Ok.

I wait a while and I start to hear the radio through my phone. After the song:

• DJ 1: And that was another great song by the Dire Straits. Johnny Miller asked that one and was willing to pay 100 bucks for it. Thank you very much John. With a show like this we get many heartwarming calls from people, like this one. He met his wife while this song was playing (etc etc). Now we have another one on the phone. Hello, you're on the air. What's your name?
• Me: Hi, my name is Snowdog.
• DJ 1: Hello snowdog, welcome on the radio. What song do you want to hear and how much are you going to pay for it?
• Me: I'd like to hear "You could be mine" by Guns 'n Roses
• DJ 1: Oh, okay... (she said it sexy)
• Me: I can only give you ten bucks for it.
• DJ 1: That doesn't matter, all contributions help.
• Me: I'm sorry it isn't more. I'd like to help you guys out more if I could, but I'm a poor college guy
• DJ 1: College? What do you study?
• Me: Communication studies (don't know how it translates)
• DJ 1: Alright, can you tell us why you like our radio station so much?
• Me: Well, you're the only radio station I listen to.
• DJ 1: Really?
• Me: It's because you're the only ones who play actually real music, you know.
• DJ 1: How do you mean that, real music?
• Me: I can't stand all those other radio stations with their electronic sh*t (I sweared live on air, and it felt good). Music doesn't come out of a computer you know, that's not music.
• DJ 1: Yea, I agree.
• Me: Yes. I can't stand it. I can't stand that SH*T! (rofl). Those self important DJ's that call themselves artists. In the end they are still just guys who mix a few records together (I almost added "...and they seriously need to F*CK OFF!, but I didn't at the last moment).
• DJ 1: Yes, real music comes from instruments. If you want to hear computer beats this is indeed not the right station.
• Me: I can't agree with you more. We sure have a lot in common. Do you happen to be available next week?
• DJ 1: What do you mean by that?
• Me: You know, in the evening. Grab a beer. Or are you more a wine kind of person?
• DJ 1: Well, that's going to cost you more then ten bucks
• Me: (I start to laugh out loud)
• DJ 1: (People in the studio laugh)
• DJ 2: Hahaha, DJ 1, you're kinda acting like a wh0re right now
  (Everyone laughes some more)
• DJ 1: Snowdog, how old are you?
• Me: I'm 22
• DJ 1 (to DJ 2) Sounds like he wants to pay in kind
• Me: Ow (skip to 1.20)
• DJ 1: (talking with a really warm voice) Haha, alright Snowdog, you can announce your request
• Me: (Scrape throat) Dear listeners, here's "You could be mine" by Guns 'n Roses
• DJ 1: Yess, thanks for calling and for your donation
  (!!!AWESOME SONG BEGINS TO PLAY!!!)

I thought it was hilarious. The best thing was that I forgot after a while that I was actually live on the air with at least half a million listeners. I was playing it totally f*cking cool all the time and had the phone conversation with a big smile on my face. I felt great afterwards.

After my song another funny thing happened. Some other guy called up. He sounded like a bit like a creep. He said he wanted to pay 200 bucks to go out with the DJ. Both DJ's talked with each other and she said she wanted at least 500. They made another wh0re joke out of it. The guy sounded actually serious. He talked about going to the Greek restaurant, with romantic candle light and sh*t. The more and more he talked about it, the colder the girls on the radio got towards him. It was a very interesting thing to analyze.


Anyway, that's another story for you guys. You wanted updates, you got em!


13,799

 

[macallik]

good stuff. Lol @ making the anrgry face to the rap music.


Too bad your radio station is going off, but lol @ electronic music not being real music. One day hopefully you will see the beauty in it. Electronic music is one of the few genres imo that can so easily embody so many emotions in its various facets. The fury and 'youthfulness' of electro house, the calm tranquility of deep house, the contemplative nature of techno/minimal beats, the trance inducing mesmorizing patterns in tech house. I never got D&B really so bash that if ya want though, lol. But there is something for everyone in electronic music if you look for it.

 

[snowdog]

Yea, and sadly they didn't make it. They are off the air, only available in AM now. Sucks. I guess I will be listening to AM radio again in the car. I'd rather have good music in bad quality then the opposite.

Anyway.

Conversation 1
Today in class. We had a little break during class, and I was going to get come coffee. I asked one of my friends if he wanted a cup too. The girl I'd rate a 9.5 was sitting a row in front of me and asked if I'd bring a cup of chocolate milk for her too. The girl next to her, who is also really hot said she wanted one too. I kinda made a face that I didn't feel like doing it, and laughed about it at the same time. I'm not the worst person. Besides, I'll make her buy me a coffee the next time. I said: "I can only hold 3 cups at once, so you both will have to fight over it... naked". Everyone who heard it laughed. The 9.5 said "Yea, you'd like that". I just gave her this mean little smile back and walked out of class. When I came back I gave the cup and one of the girls said "alright, we'll split it". Then one of my friends said: "Two girls one cup". This was of course very funny.

Conversation 2
Later on that class the other hot chick (who has MASSIVE boobs by the way) started talking about sex (she talks about sex a LOT). I don't know how it came up, but at one point she said I won't last for more then 10 seconds, or "1 thrust". People sarted laughing, I kinda laughed too, but in a totally relaxed state. As in, "I find the silly things you say about me funny, but I don't take them seriously". I just said really casually: "Well [bigboobgirl], you sure have a negative image in your head about me". I genuinely didn't care. She laughed and winked to me.



Yea guys, making conversation=going very well.






14.007

 

[snowdog]

Later this week I'm going to a frat party with tons of hot chicks. There will be a story coming from that, that's one thing for sure.





14,115