Muscleman's "I Don't Give A Fvck" Approach -> Close -> Lay Journal

rushing dude 123

Master Don Juan
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
931
Reaction score
19
Location
London
good to see u back musclemans, now get back out there u got another 86 to go lol. Just read ur journal i thought it was fantastic and well done, it was not so big seeing u got in the relationship with #14, but the updates u posted the time u were here were golden. Things can b a bit hard after ur getting back out there and glad to see u getting away from the myspace and working on the face to face and the aa will get better over time.

The relationship u had learned some things has well and u can use those lessons for when u meet that wife of urs in the future. But just curious on one of the lessons u said, why u say u should only move in chick that ur married with. Don't u learn more things and how it will work with the chick u been with quite a long while if u live with them, so u know it won't f up when ur married?

Anyway man keep the updates its been 1 and half years i am sure u got a lot more experience now that will make u even better.

Btw thanks learnt some stuff from ur thread.
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
So it's been a month. After a year and a half I realized exactly how much my game slacked. After spending about a week reading through these chapters, it dawned on me that the author was right: relationships tend to freeze you where you are in your development. That's not to say you don't learn anything, but you certainly learn a lot less than if you were single. I know a lot of people who say "I have no regrets" and I call BS. I have regrets. I regret spending the last 1.5 years with 1 girl and not developing a whole lot as a person. Sure I saved money, got a job, and now have my own place, but I could have done it even better had I not been "tied down".

Anyway ... the past month I've been busy working on myself and slowly getting back in the game. I haven't given up myspace/facebook, but I have made an effort to go sarging every weekend with one of my buddies/wings. We're both in similar situations so it works out well. Since I posted last I had 1 flake, 1 kiss close, and 1 kiss/later fvck close I'm going to tell you about today. It all happened recently too, so I suppose I'm picking up momentum.

Girl #15 - aka it's about time

Last weekend me and a couple buddies when out to a bar. Yes we planned on sarging, no we had no idea what we were going to do. Neither of us really have any approach game, so for most of the night the three of us just sat there and drank beers, listening to the band that happened to be playing. A lot of my (ex's) friends also showed up so I briefly chatted with a few people, but really it was just us. The place had a good audience, but few opportunities. Most of the girls that were there looked like they were with their bfs or just not up to my standards.

Eventually we got bored and decided to play some pool. Before we started I noticed a couple girls just sitting there talking to each other, quite intently so I thought nothing of it. HB7.5 and HB5. On my way to get a drink after we had been playing for a while I noticed the HB7.5 did a quick stare my way. It's hard to catch girls checking you out, but possible. She was checking me out. I know, I shouldn't wait for IOIs, but I'm getting there.

Fvck it, let's do this. On my way back I asked if they wanted to join us to which they agreed. Straight up "hey you guys wanna join us we're playing pool over there". From then on it was just a bunch of light talk. I'd make sure I was as close to HB7.5 as possible and as often as possible. I threw in kino where I could. Her friend was pretty awesome at NOT c0ckblocking, which is rare. At one point HB5 left to go make a phone call or something, leaving me alone with HB7.5 (my friends went somewhere too temporarily). Perfect. I sat down next to her, made sure our legs were touching (she wasn't resisting, great), straight up told her we should hang out sometime and got her number. I forgot her name (already!) and she called me out on it, but we made a joke about it and it was all good.

Her friend came back, we played some more, then everyone disappeared AGAIN. I don't know how or why, but I wasn't complaining. This time the two of us were playing pool and we somehow found ourselves very close to each other, face to face that is. This was it and I went for the kiss close, right there in the middle of the bar. Score!

The rest was smooth sailing. For the next half hour or so we made out non-stop. I wanted to take her home but she wouldn't due to having to work a couple really long shifts the next two days and since she lived far away. I thought it could be ASD/LMR at first but eventually I believed her. We scheduled to meet up in a few days at my place when she was off work.

I don't expect much from girls anymore so I figured if it happens great, if not whatever. Well, she showed up. We had a couple drinks at my place, started watching a movie and I just did what I normally do when I have an interested girl all to myself.

There ya have it fellas, #15 :box:

I'm working on another girl right now who I kiss closed but she had a time commitment so no lay for me. I'm hoping I may see her this weekend. We'll call her HB7.6 (she is a model).
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
Also, I think I should explain my personal HB scale:

1 = no way
2 = no way
3 = no way
4 = no way
5 = average, maybe a little pudgy, maybe if I was totally smashed, but I'd regret it
6 = above average, could be slightly pudgy, maybe if I had some drinks. this is my threshold of no regrets ... could go either way really.
7 = doable, drinks or not, wouldn't regret it
8 = hot. the "hottest girl I ever fvck closed" was an 8 (#14). great face, good body, good features.
9 = super hot. cream of the crop porn star hot. never met one.
10 = dream girl, probably doesn't exist.

So I'd say most of the girls I see and am attracted to are between 7-8. I sometimes see a 9, but that's extremely rarely. I currently live in the midwest so that has something to do with it.

I also think I'm operating on a slightly different wavelength than when I first started this journal. Then it was just about as many girls as I can lay. As a result I made some poor decisions. Now it's more about laying the kind of girls I want and putting them second to what I really want to do with my life. When I was spinning a few plates in the past it really ate up a lot of time - time I could have spent doing more productive things. I still reserve weekends to go sarging, but during the week I'm focusing almost all of my time on what I really want to do. I'm not a kid anymore - I'm 25. The next 5 years could be ones that bring the biggest changes to my life and hopefully for the better ... IF I focus. So I'm gonna focus :)
 
Last edited:

marmel75

Master Don Juan
Joined
Jan 4, 2012
Messages
7,231
Reaction score
5,636
muscleman said:
Bumping this up just for fun. Been "gone" for what like 3 years? Been good though, up to 42 now.
Out of those 27, if my math serves me correct, were the movie, back to ur place and smash? How many were first dates?

I like that technique bro...might have to try it
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
Actually no. The last movie-date-lay was the one documented here. I've since involved alcohol for a quicker/cheaper/more efficient way of doing things. Either meet a girl at a bar, or she comes over to my place for drinks, or invites me over to her place for drinks. I internalized a lot of these concepts over the past 3 years so it's a lot easier now and I don't have to use any particular strategy.

Off the top of my head I'd say 20 were SNL. Of the rest only a couple made me "wait" til date #3 and the others were just logistics issues (for example 1 girl met at a club, she was with her friends, we made out, but couldn't get her away that night, but a few nights later we met up for drinks just met & her and sealed the deal).
 

cablecow15

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
653
Reaction score
13
Age
34
Location
Tennessee
muscleman said:
Well, make that #43. That's my cue to start my blog. I'll post about it later, but too easy. Met at a bar on Tuesday (she and her friend kinda singled me out), kino escalation, number in the middle of it, more escalation, kiss close, she came over tonight and that's a wrap. 0 resistance.

question , do you go for targets that simply catch your eye ? or do you go after the ones that you can tell are interested in you ?
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
I always look at opportunity cost (filtering, screening, whatever you want to call it). I actually don't remember the last time I chatted up a girl who didn't know I existed up until that moment. Yes you'll lose some opportunities that way, but there's an endless supply of pvssy out there so it's not a big deal. Girls who are looking will look at you and make sure you notice them. They'll be somewhat sly about it (plausible deniability) but to the trained eye it's obvious. That same night I had another woman touch me a couple times as she passed me and barely glanced at me, and another girl passed twice, turning her head to look at me - and these are just the ones I noticed while I was engaging this girl. Once you see IOIs (and multiple eye contact from a girl is just that) it's go time.
 

cablecow15

Master Don Juan
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
653
Reaction score
13
Age
34
Location
Tennessee
muscleman said:
I always look at opportunity cost (filtering, screening, whatever you want to call it). I actually don't remember the last time I chatted up a girl who didn't know I existed up until that moment. Yes you'll lose some opportunities that way, but there's an endless supply of pvssy out there so it's not a big deal. Girls who are looking will look at you and make sure you notice them. They'll be somewhat sly about it (plausible deniability) but to the trained eye it's obvious. That same night I had another woman touch me a couple times as she passed me and barely glanced at me, and another girl passed twice, turning her head to look at me - and these are just the ones I noticed while I was engaging this girl. Once you see IOIs (and multiple eye contact from a girl is just that) it's go time.
very well put , Ive talked to plenty of girls at the club , and gotten quite a few numbers , but the only ones that went anywhere were the ones that noticed me before I noticed them
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
It's just simple screening. In The Art of Seduction, Robert Greene refers to it as picking your targets wisely. Also, audacity > timidity, always, or "shoot for the stars and land on the moon". Women will rarely be upset with you for trying to "go too far", but not going far enough = no 2nd date. I still have to remind myself of this as sometimes I lose out by not going far enough.

I try to go for SNL but if I don't get it, at least makeout/kiss close. Heavy kino throughout, get number part way into it (not at the end). There's a natural progression and you want to get as far as possible without trying to unload everything at the end.
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
Alright, here it is. I’m working on getting my blog set up, so for now this will have to do.

Girl #43 - HB7.25

Inconsequential facts altered for anonymity.

It was a Wednesday night and I didn’t want to wait until the weekend for adventure. For the purpose of expanding my reach to new social circles, I’ve been trying, with some success, to use #37 as a pivot. She was a one night stand, but a friend of a friend and unfortunately quite infatuated with me ever after, making the “just friends” part a challenge at times. On this particular night she invited me to meet her at a bar, to which I agreed. She implied that she was with a group (as they had been out earlier), but it turns out she came solo. Great for pickup, except I have no desire to sleep with her again and was hoping to mingle with some of her friends. I was slightly irritated.

As I was trying to find a spot to get a drink, I finally stumbled upon an empty chair with a beer waiting. With no occupant in sight, I sat and waited to catch the bartender’s attention. Next to me, with her back turned, was a thin blonde talking to some guy. Apparently he was trying to pick her up, but I didn’t catch all the details at first. As I stood there waiting to pay (our backs turned to each other), she bumped into my leg, but rather than back out maintained contact for several seconds. I didn’t turn around, but jotted a mental note. A millennium later I got my drink and when I finally turned her friend (not nearly as attractive and too big for my tastes) had returned to reclaim the chair.

I opened with “hey, was this your seat? Didn’t mean to take it if it was”, to which she introduced herself and her friend. At last we met; target = HB7.25. Cute 24 year old, modestly dressed in a cut-off shirt and jeans, with a grateful look on her face that she was saved from Mr. Weird just seconds prior. I made it a point to hold her hand a little longer while the standard name exchange took place. They had similar names, so I made a small joke about it. Nothing like a good laugh to get started. Having picked up on the botched attempt from the other guy, who had now positioned himself a few seats down (and proceeded to stare at us all night), I had a perfect conversation topic. All is fair in love and war, so no reason not to have a laugh at someone else’s expense. We dissected his pickup, I warned her that if she didn’t play nice I’d set her up with him, and it was all smiles and giggles from there.

By now #37 had returned from wherever and I didn’t want to totally ignore her so I brought her into the conversation as a formality. She got the hint and left a minute later. Fortunately she found a couple of her friends who happened to be at this venue so I didn’t quite ditch her. There was another attractive girl I recognized here on this particular night, so I made sure to say hi and gave her a hug in front of my target, then let her go off. Social proof. #43’s friend was luckily getting hit on by a couple other guys, so I didn’t have to engage them both too much, although whenever she was left alone I made it a point to include her in the conversation. ****blocks are bad for business.

As the conversation progressed, #43 was warming up quite well and responding favorably to escalating kino. What started out as a prolonged handshake now turned into a touch on the upper back, or a forearm, to reinforce a point. She responded by playing with her hair, smiling, and touching my hand in turn. This was my cue to escalate. By now I was touching her lower back for longer and longer pauses still. I was on conscious auto-pilot. At one point we held hands for a few seconds and as the night progressed she was leaning more and more into me. Being at a loud bar helped, as we started talking in each other’s ear more and more. A brush with my lips against her hair, a slight warm breath into her ear – the devil is in the details.

About half an hour in I pulled my “by the way, before I forget what’s your number” as she entered it into my phone. She left to go talk with some other friend for a minute and her friend asked me if I like her. I responded that she’s interesting and I want to get to know her better. She gave me the 411 that I should “go for it” and when she returned, I said “your friend here told me I should go for you”, to which she responded with a giggle and a blush. It was on.

By the end of the night my hand was on her lower back without moving and she was permanently leaned into me. I was sitting in a high chair while she was standing and her legs were wrapped around one of mine. I asked her about plans the next couple days and that I want to see her and we set up a rendezvous. There was no possibility of a same night lay as her friend was with her, but we all walked out together and I kissed her, then went home as I couldn’t find #37, who later texted me asking where I was. I told her I looked for her, got tired, and went home. So I managed to save face while spending the entire night with a new girl.

With a little back and forth texting the next couple days, #43 and I settled on a time to meet. She was doing a little **** testing by suggesting we do something in a public venue, in daytime, but it was too late for that and I was firm on her coming over for a drink, to which she eventually agreed. She showed up right on time and looked even better than the night I met her. We talked a little and one drink in I could already sense her getting a little anxious that we weren’t getting into it, so I took the hint, stopped talking, pulled her into me, and went from there. No resistance and the rest is history. I hope to see her again as she’s part of a fresh social circle, is now chasing me, and easy to get along with.

Sarge on brothers.
 

macallik

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
908
Reaction score
77
Location
Chicago
Very nice breakdown of a bar seduction. The small details go unspoken in most field reports, but gauging and reacting are a big part of knowing when to strike. Hope future reports you make are similarly documented

Using an interested girl as a pivot sounds like a backdrop that is consistently one alcoholic beverage away from a disaster btw.
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
macallik said:
Using an interested girl as a pivot sounds like a backdrop that is consistently one alcoholic beverage away from a disaster btw.
No balls, no glory. It's a calculated risk. I already slept with her (nearly a year ago) and have politely declined attempts since, so even though she's still interested, it's not "fresh". She knows the score.

I realize I'm walking on thin ice here, but this is the next learning step for me - how to keep an interested pivot ... a pivot. This is also why I had hoped she'd show up with a group (and was relieved to see her find some friends there), so that I wasn't completely ditching her. THAT would be bad.
 

muscleman

Master Don Juan
Joined
May 1, 2007
Messages
1,095
Reaction score
49
Girl #44 – HB8

Inconsequential facts altered for anonymity.

It was going to be a normal weekend. Date set up and confirmed with a POF girl. Yet fortune favors the vigilant, so I went through the morning ritual of meeting my daily quota of POF/Facebook messages – 5 each, nothing heavy - and a few friend requests. As I was making my Facebook rounds, one girl immediately responded to my typical “hey what’s up” and a couple messages later volunteered her number so I could text her. HB8, 28, solid body – worked in the fitness industry – but still feminine. Gorgeous face.

As I had planned to lay out at the pool and catch up on my reading that day, I decided to run with the convo. The replies came quick and often and about 10 messages deep in banal banter I suggested we grab a drink. She asked when, to which I responded with a couple options. She immediately came back with “I’m free tonight”. Now I had a problem, as I had already scheduled a date later that evening. I told her I was busy, but would let her know if things changed. I had to buy some time to strategize.

I decided to stagger the dates; run a 2 hour mini-date with this girl, let her go, and meet up with the other. Or so I planned. I told her that I had to go in a couple hours up front. She rushed to meet me at a local dive bar so she could maximize her time with me and naturally, I’m not one to complain. If nothing else this would be a primer for the upcoming date. Taking a pre-game shot back at my place, I realized I would be running late, so I called her and told her I’m on my way. Minor DHV, arriving after her.

I show up, hug her, and we grab a seat. One other person at the bar, place is dead. Some terrible band is playing outside. She raises her purse and I tell her I got it. For a long time I was against paying for drinks, but done properly it works in your favor. It’s all about the context. Just like your physical stature, your clothes, your body language, your mental state – it’s part of a bigger picture and not being a cheapskate goes a long way. And it’s less than $20 for the entire date, both parties included. It also presents you with a priceless opportunity to see if a girl is after a free date or if she’s really there for your company. I always pause to see if she whips out her purse or expects me to pay. It’s a good mental note.

A clearly drunk guy comes up and tries to engage her in conversation (I’m between them) and I ignore him and listen as it’s not working in the slightest. She does well and he scurries. No use in AMOGing a lesser beta. I later tease her with “I thought about leaving you alone for a few minutes so he could hit on you”. As we sit there, I lean back and have my leg slightly touching hers. No arms yet, but I know that kino is key. A couple times she breaks contact, but I don’t budge. I gauge to see if she brings it back, which she does. All the while we’re on the perfect conversational topic – failed relationships/pickups. It’s chick crack and reveals a lot about their character. The bartender is pretty cool (I grease her a bit) and jumps in an out of our conversation a couple times.

I have to relieve myself and upon my return I get the most subtle-unsubtle IOI of all time. She moved my bar stool to touch hers, a good foot, meaning when I sit down we’re now in full contact. If that doesn’t signal DTF, I don’t know what does. I notice it before I sit down and immediately put my hand on her lower back, keeping it there for the remainder of our time at the bar. She’s in great shape so we talk fitness and I make sure to feel her as much as I can. Arms, abs, back, thighs, whatever works.

A drink in she mentions she shouldn’t do another round without eating or she’ll be too drunk and the bartender recommends a couple eating places. Dinner is the last thing on my mind, but fortunately there’s a food festival going on just down the street. Perfect venue bounce opportunity. I’m on my second beer as she’s done with her first, so I tell her we’ll go as soon as I finish mine (DHV). A few minutes later we’re walking down the street, pick up a sampler plate and another beer. I take her hand to lead her through the crowd, and later put my arm around her – she giggles and returns the favor.

Now I have a really hard decision to make. My second date is about to show up and I have to either leave the first and go for the second, or ditch the second. We get to the parking lot, I tell her I have to go, hug, and kiss close. Make that apocalyptic makeout close, about as intense as it gets without disturbing the peace. Holy hell she nearly devours me, definitely my kind of kisser. I tell her to follow me as I live down the street. I’m not even thinking about the other girl at this point. In my mind, this one’s hotter, is ready to go, and I can’t say no.

We barely make it upstairs before the clothes come off. Not 2 hours elapse between hi and penetration and we’re up for a good 5 hours, round after round after round. The other girl does of course show up and is blowing up my phone. I ignore it. The following day I make an alibi and tell her I feel bad and that I’ll come up to see her if she still wants to hang out. Face: saved.
 

Three

Don Juan
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
153
Reaction score
19
Location
Midwest
Muscleman - Impressive stuff. Your game must be super tight. Keep the reports coming.
 
Top