Men *created* practically everything - why then do girls give us NO credit?

[countermart]

Whenever these arguments about the sexes and inventiveness come up it always leads to women saying they were suppressed and that is why their inventiveness is lacking, or not acknowledged.

Well if that is the case we guys should be able to sit back for a while now women have equality and enjoy a mass of great and useful inventions that are about to come through the pipeline....of course so far we are still waiting...if the sexual revolution took place in the 1970/80s then it’s only been twenty or thirty years ...still I for one am looking forward to it...and did I mention still waiting, waiting....

The reality has more to do with the greater propensity for risk taking by men than women. Men consistently take on average more risks than women. It does not matter that many fail, it only matters that one succeed and the new invention moves all of society forward.

Women in general have a propensity to “risk or exist” within an existing framework, where men, again on average, tend to try and push the boundaries of the framework.

I for one am hoping the post-sexual revolution brings many great inventions by women, but on the ground I really only see a whole lot of pretty unhappy women pushing 40 without a partner and stressed out as lawyers, or doctors, or anything else they thought would bring them happiness. They can’t understand why guys will not fully commit and only want them for one thing...and the time for guys wanting even that is running out for them.

I also see a whole lot of guys like myself that have wised up and are in LTRs but have made it clear from the start that we will never again put ourselves in a position where a woman has control over our lives through marriage or the legal system. For guys that really understand the situation there is only one solution, “It’s my way, or the highway.” Something this site effectively promotes...as “Don’t take crap from a woman, and don't put yourself in a position where you have to”.

So, many women gained financial security, but they lost a lot of relationship security, something that is important to them. Perhaps they can figure out an invention to fix this problem.

Don't get me wrong there are some fantastic, balanced, happy, wonderful women around in their mid 30s/40s. Why in my lifetime I have met, mmm, well at least 10, and I have heard about a few others, but they cannot be confirmed because it’s hearsay evidence.

But then again I don’t get out that much, and I have lifted my standards to just short of perfect...anything less and it's not worth the trouble, better to spend your time inventing something!

Now that could just be the reason us guys invent so much useful stuff.

Countermart

 

[The Message Boy]

Trader says,

First off, of course there are women inventors. But in general, if you look at technological innovations, the vast majority have been founded by men. Your exceptions that you looked up, prove the rule.

I didn't pull up and do an inventory of EVERY SINGLE invention that has ever been made, but the point of pulling up some other data is to prove that your point that MEN are the ONLY creators is wrong. We are the majority yes, but not the only.

Your argument goes along the sayings of, "Women should stay in the kitchen or the house, and the man should do the work." Basically, women have no value but pushing out babies. This is NOT TRUE and don't take my word on it, research women in history and line up the inventions/successes line by line with men and you will see that women have done just as many GREAT THINGS as men even considering the fact that women were not allowed to vote or do hardly anything some decades ago.

Trader says,

Why are you so sensitive to giving credit to men?

I'm a man, why wouldn't I give myself and my gender credit? The point of my reply is not to BASH men and not give us credit, the point of my reply was to defend women from the BASHING you are doing to them.

So I must ask you the same question, why are you so sensitive to giving credit to women?

Trader says,

Women excel not in the realm of *creative ideas* but in the realm of *creating life* as in childbirth and nuturing.

Again my point, why are you so sensitive to giving women credit? I posted those two links as an example of why this agrument of yours is wrong, sexiest, and misogynist at BEST.

Women do BOTH, they can and HAVE excelled in the realm of creative ideas/innovation/entrepreneurship JUST LIKE MEN HAVE, while at the same time also bearing children.

Again, dont' take my word on it, research it dude. Leave this forum and some of the posters here who worship misogyny and see for yourself what I'm talking about.

I'm not taking sides, I'm just trying to point out the FACTS.

Trader says,

My point is that when it comes to the contributions MEN have made, society and women do not give men any credit.

Okay, well, let's see. Men don't get any credit right? MAJORITY OF MEN run the major corporations in the WORLD, men as a majority run politics, men as a majority run the small business sector, men as a majority RUN the major investments, men as a majority hold most of the world's WEALTH.

As a result of this, the government in this country and the governments in the world, cater to MEN MORE THAN WOMEN in that men get majority of the tax breaks and incentives because they run majority of the world's wealth.

The little bull**** welfare programs that single mothers have are CHUMP change compared to the tax incentives that men get who RUN majority of the economic/political/social world we live in.

People were pissed at WallStreet Executives who got all of the big payouts despite their company being bailed out by the government, well, MOST of those executives were men.

MEN as a whole make MORE than Women.

MEN as a whole, hold MORE musical, sports-related, awards than Women.

I can go on and on, to say our society doesn't give credit to Men is literally a dumb argument. Where do you get your information from?

Trader says,

Think about the attitude of some women: 'Women don't even need men, if men didn't exist, the world would be such a better place.'

And I disagree with those EXTREME women just like I disagree with the EXTREME men who say things like YOU say.

MEN AND WOMEN have been and will continue to be contributions to our society in ALL AREAS and there shouldn't be any level of higher importance given to either gender. We need women - just like women need us - just like men need men - just like women need women - just like we need EACH OTHER. Duhhhh lol.

Trader says,

All I'm saying is: 'give props when props is due'

And I'm STILL waiting for you to give women some props for their "creative" contributions to our modern society.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Does a proud Brahma bull swat every fly that buzzes around his head? Of course not. Such should be our attitude towards those who perpetuate this femicentric nonsense.

I view feminism as the Wizard of Oz; a grand instrument comprised of liberal victimization beliefs and other convenient intellectual mechanisms, the media, societal laws, etc. Yet behind the whole thing is a four year old saying, "But I want it!"

SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

We need a grass-roots movement. Here's some details:

1. One catalyzing novel to kick this movement off, on the scale of a 'Catch-22' or 'Grapes of Wrath'. It needs to be the next huge iconic novel that does for every man in the world what this website has done for us. When released upon society, it will sweep across the fruited plain like a nuclear firestorm. Men will feel as though they have just emerged from an icy slumber in a straitjacket of lies and manipulation. Expect fireworks, Good Morning America, Oprah trashing it but inspiring more people to read it, etc.

2. A movie based upon this masterpiece novel, followed by movies in general depicting the severity of the bullsh!t we have been swimming in.

3. NO MORE AFC ROCK AND RAP SONGS! We need a renaissance in music as well, rock bands need to go back in time and take a page from the books of such c0ck-rock bands as Led Zeppelin and Bad Company. Bands need to be writing about how amazing and strong men are, not shoving the same bs down our throats depicting a guy groveling at the feet of a woman eating her sh!t to make her forgive him. And rap needs to just go away, that music is fvcking awful anyway.

4.WRITE LETTERS TO YOUR CONGRESSMAN! Even better if your congressman is a congresswoman. Fill their mailboxes with the truth, of how feminism is destroying the fabric of the American family and society itself. We need to annihilate the man-hating and ridiculously biased domestic and divorce laws.

5. GRAFFITI IN PUBLIC PLACES, BILLBOARDS, OVERPASSES, etc. Spread the word! Let's make a movement out of this, give 'em a website to visit and be awakened.

6. WE NEED WEALTHY BENEFACTORS. They will sponsor tv and radio ads, mass mailings, internet spamming, billboards, the whole works. With a little marketing, everybody in the country will be talking about it.

That's all I can think of right now. But the gist is, we need to beat them at their own game. And we CAN. After all, we're Men.

 

[Luthor Rex]

Women were not allowed a college education, could not own property (think about trying to become a great inventor when you were literally not allowed to own your own pot to pee in), and on and on and on... considering this past, it is actually surprising to me that they have made the contributions they have made.

This is such an outrageously bull**** lie it's ridiculous.

Women in ancient Athens could own property.
Women in ancient Rome could own and sell property.
Women in ancient Sparta could own and sell property, were educated as the men, were encouraged in intellectual pursuits.

I'm sure most of you have seen the move "300" with the Spartans. If you remember the queen of Sparta from that movie, she was an actual historic figure whom we know life details about:

Herodotus mentions her twice in the context of political interactions where she is present at court or in council and gives advice to the king or the elders.

If women were so oppressed and enslaved, how in the he11 was one present at court and giving advice to kings and elders?

There are plenty of other women in the ancient world who do not fit the "women were slaves" model:

Hypatia of Alexandria:

She traveled to both Athens and Italy to study, before becoming head of the Platonist school at Alexandria in approximately 400 AD . According to the 10th century Byzantine encyclopedia the Suda, she worked as teacher of philosophy, teaching the works of Plato and Aristotle.

WTF!? An oppressed woman becoming the head of a school!?

One of her contemporaries, a Christian historiographer named Socrates Scholasticus, said:

There was a woman at Alexandria named Hypatia, daughter of the philosopher Theon, who made such attainments in literature and science, as to far surpass all the philosophers of her own time. ... On account of the self-possession and ease of manner, which she had acquired in consequence of the cultivation of her mind, she not unfrequently appeared in public in presence of the magistrates. Neither did she feel abashed in going to an assembly of men. For all men on account of her extraordinary dignity and virtue admired her the more.

OMGWTF is some OPPRESSED bytch doing talking to men or having men admire her for her "dignity and virtue"!?

Oh that's right, because the "historical oppression of women" is bull****.

(Yes she was later killed by a Christian mob, but that's because she was spreading "pagan" teachings. Devil must be driven out and all...)

This list could go on for a very long time, but the point is WOMEN HAVE NOT BEEN HISTORICALLY OPPRESSED. It's a lie told over and over by the feminists.

The truth of history is far more complex than feminists would lead you to believe. Looking at history we can see that intelligent women who were also decent human beings have been held in esteem by men. Women who were arrogant and too stupid to know how dumb they really were got the beat down they deserved.

The hot sticky truth must be shot down dirty feminist throats.

 

[Unbridled_Phoenix]

Ignore All Contradictory Postings And Start With My Post, Giving Your Own Contributions To How We Will Fix This

 

[Luthor Rex]

I view feminism as the Wizard of Oz; a grand instrument comprised of liberal victimization beliefs and other convenient intellectual mechanisms, the media, societal laws, etc. Yet behind the whole thing is a four year old saying, "But I want it!"

She's probably also stomping her foot.

 

[The Message Boy]

Luther Rex says,

This list could go on for a very long time, but the point is WOMEN HAVE NOT BEEN HISTORICALLY OPPRESSED. It's a lie told over and over by the feminists.

I'm not sure how it was in other countries, but not until RECENT years could women vote and actually be considered for certain positions in the US.

Damn guys, Obama just signed a law earlier this year related to discrimination based on gender in the workplace and it's 2009.

Women have not been given equal opportunity until a few recent years ago in this country, you all know that this isn't some "discovery."

What world do you guys live in? Or is it just the "Men's Club" way of behaving to ignore the obvious truth?

I'm not taking sides, I'm a guy, but I don't think it's fair to distort reality to fit either a feminist agenda or a patriarchal one. As I keep saying, BOTH extremes are wrong and distorted.

Luther Rex says,

The hot sticky truth must be shot down dirty feminist throats.

JUST like it must be shot down patriarchal and flat out misogynist type of guys throats. The problem is, neither the extreme feminist women nor the extreme men's movement patriarchal/misogynist men want to ACCEPT the truth. They are like pure Democrats or pure Republicans, THEIR side is mostly right and the other side is TOTALLY wrong, when in reality, there's about an equal amount of rights and wrongs on both sides.

 

[Andy_Dufresne]

To the whiners/OP:

Congratulations, you've uncovered the matrix. It's true: the advance of technology favors the women, and so does the new oneworld political policy and the onset of Orwellian "1984" theory.

But does this mean we stop being MEN?

Read "Seven Habits of Highly Successful People". The section about circle of influence and circle of concern.

To distill the section: try not to concern yourself with what you cannot influence, or where your impact will be infinitessimal.

IGNORE the matrix.

BE the man.

GROW your power.

EXPAND your circle of influence.

 

[taiyuu_otoko]

Little boys want a pat on the head from mommy or teacher when they make something. If mommy doesn't pat them on the head they cry and stamp their feet until mommy gives them their well deserved validation, telling them that they are mommies little soldier.


Men create, stand back, look at it and admire it, and not give a flying fukk what other people think.

Men build and kill, and allow their followers to profit from and enjoy their creations, knowing full well they have the capability to kill and build some more.






Which one are you?

 

[romangod]

This is SOOO sexiest and is full of misogyny. MOST PEOPLE, no matter if they have a penis or a vagina, imitate and take advantage of things that the very few percentage of our citizens create. DUH. But to say women have not created anything is misinformed. Stop reading all of the misogynist type of posts around these forums and other similar forums and actually LOOK UP and research information.


Women are just as capable of doing a job as a man is. Period. Just as a man is just as capable of doing things are are typically considered "womanly" such as form good relationships, etc. Period.

We have a Girly-Man Award winner!

I wondered how long it would take before some wuss would equate a debate about women as "misogyny". It is a sign of the truly brain-washed.

If you really believe that men and women are equally capable of doing any job then you're truly spun. Period.

It sounds like you're a misandrist.


Cheers!

 

[guru1000]

The principal difference between men and women are levels of hormones including but not limited to testosterone, estrogen, GF-1 and DHT.

Testosterone with a normal range for a man is 350- 1200ng/dl (below 300 considered girly man), and 15-70 ng/dL for a woman.

Testosterone is the hormone that influences male thinking and action. Any man who has been to the gym and engaged in heavy lifting or has taken testosterone injection knows there can be a substantial difference in his thinking and action as a result of this hormone.

Testosterone combined with androgen deficiency (for a man) leads to low energy, lack of motivation, and reduced libido.

Higher (healthy) levels of this hormone is why men for the most part take initiative and act on their ideas. In most case studies, it it shown men with lower testosterone levels have a more relaxed demeanor and are less likely to act with this respect.

High T and low estrogen (men in general) is a hormone soup that leads a man to provision and protect. As a result (for the most part), men will continue to ACT on their ideas (create).

Studies further show that levels of T and estrogen (T level/estrogen ratio) can dramatically increase or decrease by a man or woman's thought process. When a man watches a football game and his team wins, it was found his T levels increased by 40%.

Nothing is constant, and YES even a woman may create higher T levels , especially in an environment when she has taken equal and in many cases the SOLE role in provisioning.

It is natural (T-estrogen ratio) for men to create and women to nurture. And this will continue to be the norm. However, not all woman have low T levels and in our current environment of role reversal, you will see more women taking the man's role of provisioning and creating.

To the OP,

Find a feminine women; one where you clearly dominate the frame.

 

[LovelyLady]

Hi Luthor

You referred to my following statement below and I wish to respond:

Women were not allowed a college education, could not own property (think about trying to become a great inventor when you were literally not allowed to own your own pot to pee in),

This is such an outrageously bull**** lie it's ridiculous.

Women in ancient Athens could own property.

Athenian women could own only what was required for one week's survival. Women could "own" a slave (some of who were women and obviously had no rights for even a week's property), jewelry, and a weeks worth of clothing and food - but they had no right to sell them or leave anything to anyone in a will. In ancient Athens, the law restricted all inheritance to pass through males only.

They could lay legal claim to land - but Athenian Women had no legal right to use, live on the land, sell, or bequeath. So, yes, I do see you are correct in that they had property "rights" as defined above and stand corrected. I do see how that can be defined that as a "right to property".

Still, I wonder... if you were afforded the same "rights" as a man under the law, would you consider the verbage "property rights" to be an accurate description/ interpretation/verbage?

Women in ancient Rome could own and sell property.

Your statement is incomplete:

"Women in ancient Rome could own and sell property..." with the permission of her Father or husband. Is there true ownership without freedom of disposition? Her property was considered "hers" only as it served as a dowry. In ancient Rome, a woman did not have the legal right to choose who she married. Her Father had this power over her life and the female child was treated as a business/political/economic tool/commodity. Her "property/dowry" was a part of that deal between men and was controlled by them.

If a man had only a daughter and no son - she married the closest male relative so "her" inheritance/property stayed with the males of the family. She never truly inherited it - but her "sex" was simply "attached" to the transference of the property - she was a vehicle of the business of the transferring property, if you will.

Women in ancient Sparta could own and sell property, were educated as the men, were encouraged in intellectual pursuits.

Yes, unlike ancient Athens and Rome, women could own and sell property. And yes, women were educated in formal settings similar to men's formal settings- but the quality and content/higher levels of learning were not available to the Women of Sparta.

I'm sure most of you have seen the move "300" with the Spartans. If you remember the queen of Sparta from that movie, she was an actual historic figure whom we know life details about:

If women were so oppressed and enslaved, how in the he11 was one present at court and giving advice to kings and elders?

Well, she had that position because she was the only child of King Cleomenes (he had no sons). She was married to her Father's half brother - King Leonidas - in an arranged marriage.

So yes, the king's daughter does not fit the "women were slaves" model you have introduced. It was still her, as vessel, for transference and not ownership of the position or opportunities awarded her in her own right, though. I do believe any other Spartan woman would not have been given such a position of influence, regardless of her insights. Do you agree or is there some other reason for the absence of other women of Sparta in the higher positions you are presenting available to the Women of Sparta?

...

 

[LovelyLady]

There are plenty of other women in the ancient world who do not fit the "women were slaves" model:
URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypatia_of_Alexandria"]Hypatia of Alexandria[/URL]:

In ancient Alexandria, women had property rights that included the right to manage, own, live on, sell and bequeath their property. So yes, Hypatia lived under different circumstances than the women of Sparta, Rome, and Athens.

And I concur: she was a great mind, held a significant position, and was very influentual.

WTF!? An oppressed woman becoming the head of a school!?

One of her contemporaries, a Christian historiographer named Socrates Scholasticus, said: "She traveled to both Athens and Italy to study, before becoming head of the Platonist school at Alexandria in approximately 400 AD . According to the 10th century Byzantine encyclopedia the Suda, she worked as teacher of philosophy, teaching the works of Plato and Aristotle."

OMGWTF is some OPPRESSED bytch doing talking to men or having men admire her for her "dignity and virtue"!?

Oh that's right, because the "historical oppression of women" is bull****.

<b>(Yes she was later killed by a Christian mob, but that's because she was spreading "pagan" teachings. Devil must be driven out and all...)</b>

Ah, yes that whole being stripped naked, whipped, burned, flayed with oyster shells and dismemberment thing ... details, details...

Her murder was a politically motivated assassination. And in that context - a man who had as much political influence would most likely have been assassinated as well - but in such a manner, no, as her treatment was the same as many other "witches" experienced - a torturous death reserved for Women .

Perhaps her murder was a loss of a great mind and teacher, or perhaps she was simply "arrogant and too stupid to know how dumb she really was and simply received the beatdown she deserved" as you so eloquently said.

What is your opinion?

This list could go on for a very long time,

Yes, I agree, it could...

but the point is WOMEN HAVE NOT BEEN HISTORICALLY OPPRESSED. It's a lie told over and over by the feminists. The truth of history is far more complex than feminists would lead you to believe. Looking at history we can see that intelligent women who were also decent human beings have been held in esteem by men. Women who were arrogant and too stupid to know how dumb they really were got the beat down they deserved.

The hot sticky truth must be shot down dirty feminist throats.

 

[SXS]

Oh... and I never took a Women's Studies class - my information comes from historical and archeological sources...

Really ? It seems that your source is a feminist site. Then show me the sources for any of those:


"Mozart is considered the best composer of all time, yet his sister was a child prodigy as well. Their family refused to allow her to advance in her musical studies but instead forced her to marry. Mozart consistantly asserted his sister had more talent than he did."


"Einstein is considered the best scientist, yet it is Madame Curie's thesis that is considered the most revolutionary of all scientic thesis. She is credited with radically changing/revolutionizing science. And while Einstein was a genious - so was his first wife - and it is now well known within the scientific community that much of his work accomplished while with her should have been credited to her instead."

"Regarding the melting of ore, - melted metals were first discovered in the Copper Age - on clay pots as a decorative element - believed by archeologists to have been a primarily female endeavor. So would it automatically follow that those women are to get the real credit for the steel industry and all that men now make - simply becaus ethey are believed to be the originators?"

And I mean historical sources, not feminist sites...

Perhaps her murder was a loss of a great mind and teacher, or perhaps she was simply "arrogant and too stupid to know how dumb she really was and simply received the beatdown she deserved" as you so eloquently said.

What is your opinion?

Many people were tortured, burned, and so on and on. Do you think that more of that happened with more women than men ? Or maybe the ancient Greeks should have put women to carry giant blocks of stone or put them on the front in the battlefield. What do you think about that ?

Mainly THIS post covers the "spirit" of your post:

From C-quenced :

"Of course we are forgetting that men "steal" ideas from women. They "steal". Look at Watson and Crick who "stole" from Rosalind Franklin. Speaking of the ENIAC there are two evil men who are credited for it's invention but some superior being (a woman) discovered this was not so. Charles Babbage couldn't program on his own invention so he needed assistance from a woman. For every great male contributor there has had to be a superior ugh... I mean't "equal". Women were so oppressed and so discredited from creations and innovations that the ape-ish male forget to cover all his tracks. "

Do you want to be taken seriously, or are you just joking ?

 

[Warrior74]

mental wankery. be who you want to be and do the things you know are right and never except less than what you want and you won't have to mentally wank over men or women being greater or less. Seriously guys?

Your like the low class poor white trash guys who never did sh1t complaining about the other races being beneath you. Do you think the men of accomplishment worry about that sh1t? Of course not, they know they are doing what they need to do. It is only the weak who complain about others. Take action, stop mentally masturbating to make yourselves feel better. Why do you even want credit from a woman? Seek self approval and you'll laugh at anyone trying to tell you something that isn't true.

 

[LovelyLady]

SXS,
You know, somehow you sound like a little bird to me "feed me -feed me".

Is it not enough I did all the work of educating myself (learning to fly and finding the worms) writing the information down in an easy to understand and respectful way, and posted it here (brought them back to the nest...) and now you want me to chew it up and spit it in your mouth for you too? ("post some sources -I am too lazy to chew that worm all by my self")

Do your own googling (yes GOOGLE- a search engine ____________ADDED/Edited: at 3:58 to be uberclear for you, SXS____that is presently functioning under a structure that was developed/created/was the architect of Google as it is structured in today's present form and also is the Creator of Cuhl - a search enging that Google WANTED to buy because it is even better than what she made for them while working there... (sure hope this communicated clearly enough now.... I did not say she was the Founder of the Google Corporation or the creator of their original search engine - I can see how my post was misunderstood due to my lack of detail, though)_____________ by a woman that men also benefit from the use of, but I never see them pissing themselves in gratitude for the contribution )

Maybe after you take some time to do your own critical thinking and research, and contribute something useful to this conversation I could take your comments seriously.

You could start with what C-quenced shared - and see for yourself it is true.

 

[DJDanny]

Do your own googling (yes GOOGLE- a search engine created by a woman....

huh???

 

[SXS]

You know, somehow you sound like a little bird to me "feed me" feed me".

???

Is it not enough I did all the work of educating myself (learning to fly and finding the worms) writing the information down in an easy to understand and respectful way, and posted it here (brought it back to the nest...) and now you want me to chew it up and spit it in your mouth for you too? ("post some sources -I am too lazy to look)

It's the job for those who are claiming something to provide proof, not the opposite. You have to provide the source for what you are saying. If you look closely to your first post you will see that is filled with nonsense, and whoever wrote that(I am sure it was not you) did not know what they are talking about in the first place. I can elaborate a little more on that if you want to, but I think you will not be interested.
It's not a surprise that you even believe that though.

Do your own googling (yes GOOGLE- a search engine created by a woman that men also benefit from the use of, but I never see them pissing themselves in gratitude for the contribution )

Again, you did not provided a source for your claim.
here, a little for you to educate yourself.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google#History

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Google

http://www.searchenginehistory.com/

Maybe after you take some time to do your own critical thinking and research, and contribute something useful to this conversation I could take your comments seriously.

Maybe after you start saying things that make sense and provide real sources for anything you say, I could take your comments seriously.

 

[LovelyLady]

Anna Patterson.

 

[SXS]

Anna patterson what ?