Marriage...

[EyeBRollin]

Taking a vow to be faithful to your wife and marriage is not disney propaganda. I actually don't believe in all that disney fairytale crap either.
And like I said in my now-deleted post, if you don't intend to honor the vow, then don't make it. It's really that simple.

Pay attention, gentlemen.

The threat to the female mating strategy is so strong that Cat has to inject her shaming into someone else’s relationship. It is social engineering.

I am near a devoutly traditional religious neighborhood. Most of the marriages there are arranged or semi-arranged. And most of the local Uber drivers find themselves dropping hookers off into that same neighborhood.

What’s “love” have to do with any of this?

 

[EyeBRollin]

This actually has nothing to do with women preventing men from doing anything, it's about some men believing it's okay to take a vow of fidelity in marriage and then breaking the vow HE made by lying to his wife and cheating. THAT is the issue, not women manipulating men to go against their nature. Again, not rocket science and baffled as to why you're having such difficultly understanding the difference.

It's simple. Don't take the vow, stay single. By doing so you're free to roam about with as many women as you desire and keep your character and integrity in tact.

Actually it does have to do with women and their egos. Male honor has nothing to do with intersexual mating dynamics.

Deception between two men has violent consequences. It causes wars. Deception itself is the entire female mating strategy.

Men, take notes. Women, including cat, take their understanding of male honor and use it to manipulate you. Women lie to get what they want from men. At the same time women want men to be 100% honest … not because they give a damn about honor. They want you to be honest so they can do exactly what the OPs wife did to him.

 

[EyeBRollin]

Lol, this is actually starting to be fun now.

A man cannot break the vow to remain faithful in marriage and remain loyal. It's one or the other. Remain loyal or break the vow (i.e. cheat).

I trust you know the definition of loyalty?

If not, see below:

The state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations.

Man’s loyalty is protecting, providing, and willingness to take a bullet for his woman. Woman’s loyalty is not fvcking other dudes.

Men, this is why the first thing a woman asks when her man gets caught is “do you love her?”

P.S. I am sorry your experiences with women have been so traumatizing to cause you to think and feel this way, I truly am and I mean that sincerely mate. Hugs.

Que the shaming language…

 

[The Duke]

Lolz dudes, what exactly has Cats done to earn all of this free attention you're giving her?

She told everyone she was hot. That's all it took. I bet she has 20 new private messages every day from random sosuave dudes hoping to get with her.

 

[The Duke]

I believe it was @BillyPilgrim who asked yesterday what I had done to deserve all the attention I receive here. All the never ending questions and attempts to engage me in conversation even if such attention and engagement is to argue with my beliefs and/or attempts to insult me and knock me down.

I asked the same question myself the day before but received no response, just more questions! lol

Anyway, I respectfully request that you stop. I have said my piece, take or leave. Just as you do with the opinions of the men here.

The men here don't experience nearly the shyt that I have, both on the forum and in DM (you know who you are). Even when their beliefs align with mine.

Just stop. Which should be relatively easy going forward since I'm done here anyway.

My opinions are not valued here and there is no reason for you to continue to engage me.

You said back on page 2 you were going to bow out of the convo. Lol. It's fine if you want to learn, understand, and ask questions. But most of your advice isn't good for young/inexperienced guys trying to improve with women.

And how many times have you said you were going to leave for good? Your new avatar is great. Good bye!

 

[andreihaha]

Eh. Fvcking another bvtch isn’t cheating. Having a full on affair is cheating. Male mammals are not sexually monogamous. I don’t know why modern humans are still trying to make something is that just isn’t.

Every woman that I’ve dated, and I’m sure a majority of them out there, have had past boyfriends that have physically “cheated” with other women. Of all income levels. All religions. All races. Men are just built this way.

"Mammals" . We're not just animals.
We have a soul, conscience and (some of us) can control our urges.
So not cheating it's not impossible, it's just not for everyone.

 

[SW15]

Abundant alpha men are only able to cheat and sleep around as widely as they do….because women are attracted to it. It’s not the cheating she’s attracted to, it’s the man with access and options.

Women use the pvssy card to try and secure high value men. And this then enables high value men to lap up all the pvssy cards.

Women mislead themselves. They are used to dangling pvssy for betas. She thinks she has magik vagina. Unfortunately, the alpha sex addict is often very immune to the pvssy card. It’s like snacking on a grape for him.

A woman could hook a beta solely based on the goodness of her pusssy.

She told everyone she was hot. I bet she has 20 new private messages every day from random sosuave dudes hoping to get with her.

Men are thirsty. SoSuave members are not immune to this. There are some incel and nearly incel parts of the membership base.

There were no baby boomers in my family of origin. My parents were both born during the Great Depression to relatively wealthy families, but nevertheless to families that knew hardship through that era. My father was 37 when I was born in the 60s, and I'm the eldest of 4. So I will agree that I was raised with the value system the Baby Boomers saw in their parents.

You're an early Gen X'ers. Early Gen X'ers didn't have Boomer parents. Only the real tail end of Gen X (1975-1981) had some Boomer parents, but Boomer parents didn't become more common until the Millennials started in 1982.

The majority of the Gen X were the children of the Silent Generation, the generation born from the late 1920s-1945. The Silent Generation had a good fictional portrayal in the TV show "Mad Men". A lot of major characters in "Mad Men" would have been Silents. The Silent Generation was the first generation to get hormonal birth control, as the female birth control pill started in 1960. Almost all of the Baby Boomer women would have been too young to be using birth control during the 1960s. Male condoms were around prior to the 1960s though.

When no fault divorce started around 1970, it was members of The Silent Generation who were the ones getting divorced. Boomers were either too young to be married in 1970-1975 or in the early stages of their marriages and not yet dissatisfied. Boomers didn't start getting divorced in big numbers until the 1980s. The 1980s-1990s were when Boomer divorces became more of a thing.

 

[BackInTheGame78]

People who have never been married have no real idea what it's like to be married or what that entails regardless of what they may think.

 

[zekko]

I watch some of Rich Cooper's videos, AKA "Entrepreneurs in Cars". He always pushes the idea that men and women play by different rules, and that men can have mistresses in a marriage and it's no big deal, but women absolutely are not allowed to cheat. He'll give an example like Atilla the Hun, who had a harem of 900 wives or whatever it was.

I just have to think that a woman in that situation must know that she's in a unique situation, certainly one that is very unlike modern marriage. Her position provides her security and she will be fed and clothed for the rest of her life, and that must be the main thing she expects out of it. She probably fulfills her sexual duties out of obligation (and because she doesn't want to be beheaded), and with 900 wives how often does she have to capitulate anyway? Once a year, maybe? Let's face it, whether or not she feels any affection toward the man or even gets to know him on a personal level is basically irrelevant.

 

[Pandora]

I don't subscribe to this theory. The French society use to have mistresses and this was only a generation or two ago. In china and parts of south east Asia - there were "minor" and "major" wives. Guess what, these societies survived and the wife did not breakup the marriage. This was only a few generation ago. There are numerous examples of this throughout history.

Guys are not women and women are not men. Guys have a drive to have sex with different women. Women don't have this drive. To "domesticate" men so they "set the standard" by not cheating is like asking women to be cut down trees so there can be a clearing for log cabins and a house. Just like how men can have sex with multiple women and not "be damaged" while women can.

I applaud those men who don't cheat even though they have the opportunity, but that is not how life is.

I personally feel men are built to have one wife who he bonds with emotionally.... and multiple flings. The whole monogamous thing doesn't really work with most men. Just a fact of life. To insist on this is only to provide more reasons for broken families and lower marriage rates. The whole monogamous thing hasn't really work at all for men -- there has always been cheating and the perfunctory forgiveness that women have given to men and life continues; UNTIL quite recently which has changed male and female dynamics for the worse..

Gold! Bingo! 1000%

1.) The Chinese have a national holiday called Mistress Day. Their family structures have not imploded because of this.

2.) Women are attracted to a man that has sexual options. They are not respulsed by a man that has a harem. This is why groupies dont mind being part of a rockstar's harem. Women are only outraged when low value men have mutiple women. This is because they think they are doing a favor to low value men. Its all ego.

3.) When a woman knows you are her only source of sex she will use this knowledge against you. Competition anxiety is sexy.

4.) Male sexual fidelity is a gynocentric construct.

5.) A man can have a mistress and still provide for a functional family. It has no effect on his primary nuclear family.

6.) Sister wives actually help share the house holds labor. It eases the burden of domestic chores and child rearing.

 

[Zimbabwe]

I don't think the advice that these men should work on themselves is wrong, but it's also the case that the Western, and specifically American, dating market is dysfunctional. "Game" is something that gets you ***** in clubs, when it's expected Joe Average needs to be spending time practicing it just to have a chance to be a 3rd choice dinner date it's not necessarily something wrong with him, it's a reflection of the culture. Increasing conformity of expectations (i.e. hypergamy pushing women towards finding only certain types of men acceptable) and decreasing social skills are leading to an increasing amount of misery and loneliness.

A lot of women get a thrill out of rejecting and putting down the men they find undesirable. If all the undesirable men suddenly vanished there’d only be the men who either use or reject women left. The relationship between undesirable men and the women who reject them is a symbiotic relationship. Part of the reason so many women have such a high view of themselves is because they have so many men they’re okay with rejecting.

They are trying to reduce Thai foreigners coming into Sweden because apparently too many men are bring over there wives. I believe it was about 80% of Thai immigration was because of marriage.

How is it that the same 80% of men can attractive women in another country? I think our culture has created princess syndrome in many western women. They are simply never content with any man. See Bezos or Gates. If these men failed with Western women, who has a chance unless they are perfect?

Look at OLD. Women say men are low effort and unattractive. I say men have not been shown how to put in that effort. Furthermore, often the effort they do exert is ignored. Therevis literally zero appreciation shown. It creates a cycle of loneliness and sadness. The ambition is low, because the reward is low.

 

[MtmVaott]

Please correct me if you deem otherwise, but this is what I concluded and heavily generalized from the contributions to this thread:

Imagine a hypothetical GF is behaving disrespectful with no reason from your part.
#1: A minute later she tells you: "I'm sorry for the way I behaved. I failed my responsibilities as a GF to you. I shouldn't have done that, it was a mistake."
So despise after fvcking up exists as well from the male perspective.

#2: However she could say the following: "I know you expect me to be respectful to you, but right now I disrespected you. I'm very sorry."
This is by far the better apology, as it's about expectations on the other's role and she conveys she gets that.
With this option no more despise but still disappointment.

#3: However, most likely she will never speak of the incident on her own, but makes sure you get "pleased" in the hopes you'll let it slide or address it and then forgive.

So to sum up if you want to repent by words, be precise about the expectation you failed in order to convey understanding.
In any case, follow up to repent by actions, if not actions only.

Actions may include remaining silent about the failed expectation if unnoticed. It may mean bearing the consequences or taking appropriate steps to own the mistake. And/Or taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. And/Or holding up to the expectation until despise/disappointment has dissolved.
If you need to talk things through, choose a close friend. Not the one that is expecting you to fill your role. If you do, you risk phrasing it accidentally like option #1. Better to read word by word from a note than #1...

 

[Barrister]

Please correct me if you deem otherwise, but this is what I concluded and heavily generalized from the contributions to this thread:

Imagine a hypothetical GF is behaving disrespectful with no reason from your part.
#1: A minute later she tells you: "I'm sorry for the way I behaved. I failed my responsibilities as a GF to you. I shouldn't have done that, it was a mistake."
So despise after fvcking up exists as well from the male perspective.

#2: However she could say the following: "I know you expect me to be respectful to you, but right now I disrespected you. I'm very sorry."
This is by far the better apology, as it's about expectations on the other's role and she conveys she gets that.
With this option no more despise but still disappointment.

#3: However, most likely she will never speak of the incident on her own, but makes sure you get "pleased" in the hopes you'll let it slide or address it and then forgive.

So to sum up if you want to repent by words, be precise about the expectation you failed in order to convey understanding.
In any case, follow up to repent by actions, if not actions only.

Actions may include remaining silent about the failed expectation if unnoticed. It may mean bearing the consequences or taking appropriate steps to own the mistake. And/Or taking steps to prevent it from happening in the future. And/Or holding up to the expectation until despise/disappointment has dissolved.
If you need to talk things through, choose a close friend. Not the one that is expecting you to fill your role. If you do, you risk phrasing it accidentally like option #1. Better to read word by word from a note than #1...

The most you can expect from your woman is "I am sorry." There will never be any explanation about how she disrespected you because they are incapable of understanding men on that level. It took me many years to fully understand this. Respect is something inherently felt by women for their man - but not something they ever put into words.

As men, we have a strong sense of honor, loyalty, and respect. Women's sense derives from how her emotions make her feel - she sees her world through these lens. It is pointless to try to apply our own principles to women's behavior for this reason. All it does is make us feel slighted by everything they do as some form of "disrespect" to us.

The best way to address poor behavior by women is S&D when she steps out of line. If she does respect, she will come around and apologize and will be ready to please you. If she doesn't come around, then you know you have bigger issues and it may be time to move on.

 

[EyeBRollin]

The most you can expect from your woman is "I am sorry." There will never be any explanation about how she disrespected you because they are incapable of understanding men on that level. It took me many years to fully understand this. Respect is something inherently felt by women for their man - but not something they ever put into words.

As men, we have a strong sense of honor, loyalty, and respect. Women's sense derives from how her emotions make her feel - she sees her world through these lens. It is pointless to try to apply our own principles to women's behavior for this reason. All it does is make us feel slighted by everything they do as some form of "disrespect" to us.

The best way to address poor behavior by women is S&D when she steps out of line. If she does respect, she will come around and apologize and will be ready to please you. If she doesn't come around, then you know you have bigger issues and it may be time to move on.

And this is why women are a liability.

I have had some success in getting my women to apologize properly. It does take effort and patience. Almost like scolding a child. I use a combination of silence and distance, mixed with taking away something she enjoyed about the relationship. That gets her attention real quick. After about 3-4 days marinating on her behavior she then gives a real effort to articulate her transgressions.

I’ve only done this with high interest level girlfriends. Don’t expect it from plates.

 

[Barrister]

And this is why women are a liability.

I have had some success in getting my women to apologize properly. It does take effort and patience. Almost like scolding a child. I use a combination of silence and distance, mixed with taking away something she enjoyed about the relationship. That gets her attention real quick. After about 3-4 days marinating on her behavior she then gives a real effort to articulate her transgressions.

I’ve only done this with high interest level girlfriends. Don’t expect it from plates.

Women can certainly seem like children when they act out. I find this is most true when something completely extraneous to the relationship has put them in a bad mood and they meet up with me and are suddenly trying to take that out on me. I generally will give some type of verbal warning (setting a boundary) when I sense this is the case with a combination of being understanding of why she is upset but firmly letting her know she is out of line to take it out on me. If the behavior continues past that point, I immediately shift to S&D until she is ready to come around and cease the behavior.

Agree it doesn't work nearly as effectively on plates unless they are semi-long term ones (2 months plus).

 

[EyeBRollin]

Like what?

Ive cancelled weekend trips and outings due to poor behavior the week leading up to it. The blowback was severe however the poor behavior was corrected each time.

Women need to feel that the relationship (aka your security and provisioning) with you is a privilege that can be revoked at any time. Even the best women get too comfortable at times; it is human nature.

 

[EyeBRollin]

How did you relay this to the girlfriend? "Due to you being a biitch, we're not going to xyz"

I told her the behavior is unacceptable. I never directly said “because you were a bvtch we aren’t doing X.” I simply cancelled it and frame it as “we have some important things to work on in our relationship. Now isn’t the best time for X. Let’s figure this out.” Each time we address the transgression and apology.

What’s surprising is how bad women are at apologies. I never accept “I’m sorry for how that made you feel” type shvt. There must be contrition, acknowledgement of the bad behavior, and the reparations.

 

[MtmVaott]

Ok so I guess my post was the default man-only perspective on how a man wants to get treated after his boundaries are crossed.
And women hate to be overtly hold accountable for their actions. Got it.

What is still foggy for me is how to react if you (as a man) are accidentally failing to meet the expectations of a woman that are inherent to the male-female-dynamic itself. So to assert and create your own values/order to you and your surrounding, to dare instead of backing down, to be the dependable one, and so on.
And without considering any reaction from the woman whatsoever. Just what you do as a man recognizing you failed in a certain situation.

There is this rationalisation route, where you pretend the failure never happened. When it's not possible to pretend anymore, you resort to denying. If you can't deny anymore, you apologize.

The other one would be to own the mistake and retreat until your gut tells you you have been retreated enough. Which, in the extreme, could be ending the relationship without any reaction on the failure by the woman whatsoever.

Does it have to be that strict? Am I missing a way out of this? Option 1 doesn't seem right to me, so I would have to stick to option 2 for my own sake.

 

[MtmVaott]

Ok so I guess my post was the default man-only perspective on how a man wants to get treated after his boundaries are crossed.
And women hate to be overtly hold accountable for their actions. Got it.

What is still foggy for me is how to react if you (as a man) are accidentally failing to meet the expectations of a woman that are inherent to the male-female-dynamic itself. So to assert and create your own values/order to you and your surrounding, to dare instead of backing down, to be the dependable one, and so on.
And without considering any reaction from the woman whatsoever. Just what you do as a man recognizing you failed in a certain situation.

There is this rationalisation route, where you pretend the failure never happened. When it's not possible to pretend anymore, you resort to denying. If you can't deny anymore, you apologize.

The other one would be to own the mistake and retreat until your gut tells you you have been retreated enough. Which, in the extreme, could be ending the relationship without any reaction on the failure by the woman whatsoever.

Does it have to be that strict? Am I missing a way out of this? Option 1 doesn't seem right to me, so I would have to stick to option 2 for my own sake.

Ok I can answer my own question lol.

The way out is to train to think in a not shame-based way, i.e. not thinking "I'm bad. I'm not good enough.". As you feel and behave as you think, the only consequence would be permanent helplessness. That way of thinking is leading to the retreat-behavior and repells both women and fellow men.

Better to completely forgive yourself, make up for any damages if there are any, and then start to think about what you can learn from that slip. I can't imagine a woman that will reject/despise a man with a mindset like that. You can probably tell her the deepest insecurities as long as you fully accept them and are on the way to reduce them.

Training that way of thinking is hard though, it will take a ton of energy and work to rewire your brain until the thoughts become automatic. Not to mention the amount of work to conscientiously monitoring your subconscious thoughts after every mistake you make.

 

[jimwho]

^^^^ Or you could just forget the whole thing and go fly fishing.