Marriage

assasin · Mar 5, 2003

I scanned the article in Gyn's link and will cheerfully dismiss it as a bunch of crap by a bitter AFC.

With regards to Marriage, I do agree with Gyn. In the modern world there are no financial incentives, and no moral incentives to getting married.

What it does do is give you an incentive to stick with it in the bad times.

You feel more inclined to accept the fact that the girls losing her figure a bit after two kids, rather than thinking "this girls gone to a 7. I can get a 9 without any trouble".

When the car, the fridge, the washing machine and the dog all break down in the same week, and you have a stack of bills to pay, you are more inclined to stick with it.

Basically it takes the edge off the bad times because you can't just get up and walk away from it all.

Most single blokes will tell you that this is all good reason to avoid marriage, and in fact it is. Marriage is bloody hard work.

But you can't get the emotion of seeing your son take his first steps, catch his first ball, tell you he loves you and wants to be just like you. You can't get that without paying the price.

Marriage gives you the sedcurity to keep your nose to the grindstone, when another man might have walked away, leaving little johnny heartbroken.

Marriage is the price you pay for the kids. Without the kids marriage is exactly the same as any other LTR, except you get less sex.

GynecologyEnthusiast · Mar 5, 2003

I thought it was a fairly amusing artivle, assassin.

He is a bitter old bastard though.

assasin · Mar 5, 2003

Gyn, it is amusing, and relevant to the discussion, thanks for posting it.

I still dismiss it as AFC though.

The married guy lives in a vast echoing mortgage beyond his means, drives sensible cars he doesn't like, and loses his old friends because he isn't allowed to hang out with them

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

There's a little bit of worry that she's not really taking how YOU feel into account here. She's got a 'live' one and her agenda is to get married and settled like Ken and Barbie.

You have the right to say "NO", to change your mind and do what is right for you. Always. What is 'right' for you is automatically 'right' for everyone else too.

If you're afraid to tell her your true feelings of discomfort at her planning and showing you stuff, dude, that is a huge red flag right there.

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Rktek, I appreciate your input on this. The thing is I don't feel any discomfort about this at all. I can't deny that I am in fact looking for a woman to settle down with. If anything, she's causing me to get somewhat excited about it. Another thing is we haven't really discussed "us" getting married. We had a conversation at my company Christmas party that my gf remembers very fondly. We were discussing the fact that we would like to have families some day, and we discovered something very shocking - we both have a LOT of the same thoughts and goals in this respect. The thing is I don't want to head full speed into this only to crash. It's quite difficult NOT to get excited about it, considering we haven't been together all that long.

I've been looking into this woman as I've been looking into every other woman I dated. I have asked myself the question "Will this woman add happiness to my life, or take it away?" With many of the women I dated, signs pointed to "no" or "I'm not sure". With this woman, so far all the signs are pointing to "yes" for the first time.

Lionheart · Mar 5, 2003

Now this is the sort of thing I've been talking about.

My major beef with the DJ 'conditioning' is that you will never ever settle for anything, because you always feel/know that there is something better around the corner.

L.

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

My major beef with the DJ 'conditioning' is that you will never ever settle for anything, because you always feel/know that there is something better around the corner.

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Lionheart, I'm not entirely sure what caused you to post this here. I myself have refused to adopt this mindset. I personally see nothing wrong with settling. I've always thought of not something better, but something just as good down the road. However, the road is long.

Personally if I arrive at one gas station, I wouldn't drive to the next gas station to take the chance that the gas is of much better quality when I'm running on empty.

Might be a 5hitty analogy, but that's how I feel.

VeryBadGirl · Mar 5, 2003

Yes, that article was written by a bitter guy and is basically false. Marriage is what YOU make of it.

I have a lot of married friends and they are fun, happy people. They hang out and party with the rest of us. Yes, they are married, but that hasn't changed them - they still persue their life goals, they still have hobbies, they still hang out with friends - now they just have a partner to live their life with.

Anyway, BP, I agree with others that you should wait until you have know each other for at least a year - really, I think that 2 is much better. Having been in relationships that have gone on that long, you do get to know the person more as the months turn into years.

Now, I know that what I am about to say now is breaking the DJ code - I am going to say it anyway - because it has really worked FOR ME. (and others I know) I don't want to get into a whole debate about it, I just want to state my opinion.

Some women do see marriage as a big party, white dress and lots of presents. They forget that after that there is a lot of grocery shopping, laundry doing, taking care of each other when sick, picking up each others dirty clothes, toilet cleaning, etc after that big party is over. There are lot of little quirks that you don't know from just going out on dates with someone. Because of course there is still dating in marriage - if you are good at it - but there is also a lot of non-dating and non-romance. Down right unromanticness. And you learn about this through living together. I have learned so much about our relationship and my boyfriend since we moved in together.

Anyway, even if you get engaged and then live together, I would still reccomend it. Others clearly disagree and I can see their points. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

Anyway, here are some other things that you should do before you decide to get engaged:

Go on a long vacation together, just the two of you. (1-2 weeks, at least)

Spend 1 holiday with each of your families - it's best if you actually stay with each family as well.

Get in a really big fight - and work through it without hard feelings. I mean, really get over it and move on.

Just make sure you are really, really sure when you ask her. And make sure she knows that marriage isn't all flowers and white dresses. It is work - very, very, very hard work.

GynecologyEnthusiast · Mar 5, 2003

VBG, you slay me. Your boyfriend is doing to you exactly what the guy in the article was suggesting to do.

Hilarious.

GE

GynecologyEnthusiast · Mar 5, 2003

Just about all my friends are married by now. One is getting remarried on Saturday and another next week.

Guess what? 90% of them are miserable. They always ask me about my love life so they can live vicariously through me.

They never do anything interesting. They have to ask permission to go out and meet me for a beer. They get in fights on the phone with their wives. They have to be home early.

Where is the upside? Seeing a kid take his first steps????

That was worth my freedom.

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

Some women do see marriage as a big party, white dress and lots of presents. They forget that after that there is a lot of grocery shopping, laundry doing, taking care of each other when sick, picking up each others dirty clothes, toilet cleaning, etc after that big party is over. There are lot of little quirks that you don't know from just going out on dates with someone. Because of course there is still dating in marriage - if you are good at it - but there is also a lot of non-dating and non-romance. Down right unromanticness. And you learn about this through living together. I have learned so much about our relationship and my boyfriend since we moved in together.

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This is where I think the difference might be. I've been through all that once already. She's never been through it. I know what I'm expecting when I take that step since I did it for 3 1/2 years. One thing I will NOT do again is move in with a girl that I'm only engaged to. Wedding plans have to be in the making. Any dumb girl can say "yes" (I found that out the hard way), but a serious woman will be eager to go ahead with the wedding plans.

Anyway, even if you get engaged and then live together, I would still reccomend it. Others clearly disagree and I can see their points. But I think the positives outweigh the negatives.

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This is where I believe I fvcked up previously. I became reliant on her paycheque to help pay for bills. The longer you live with someone, the more investments you make together, and the more one person is screwed if one decides to leave. Marriage holds that bond a lot tighter; it may not be indestructable, but it's much more reinforced.

Anyway, here are some other things that you should do before you decide to get engaged:

Go on a long vacation together, just the two of you. (1-2 weeks, at least)

Spend 1 holiday with each of your families - it's best if you actually stay with each family as well.

Get in a really big fight - and work through it without hard feelings. I mean, really get over it and move on.

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The vacation is coming up, my parents don't celebrate anything so that idea is kinda out the window. However, getting in a big fight shouldn't be intentional, it should happen naturally. As for waiting 1-2 years, I'm all for that. It's just difficult not to get excited about it when the subject surfaces, knowing that it needs more time.

assasin · Mar 5, 2003

It's just difficult not to get excited about it when the subject surfaces, knowing that it needs more time.

Oh I don't know, my missus and me get excited thinking about things like retirement, even though it's a long way off.

We both know it's going to happen. It's just a matter of timing. Talking about it just makes it easier to wait.

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

A couple of other points I like to bring up about this.

It's really showing how this board really hasn't been around all that long when an issue like this comes up. I've NEVER seen a DJ post about becoming a DJ, getting engaged, and went through with the marriage. I almost feel like I'm taking steps into unknown water. There doesn't seem to be anyone here that I can relate to on this subject.

There was however a post not so long ago from a DJ who got engaged to his gf after 9 months. Maybe I'll do a search on here and see what he has to say about the whole issue. I'm not looking for verification that it's right to jump into this quickly, I would just like to hear opinions from the other side.

GynecologyEnthusiast · Mar 5, 2003

Originally posted by Bungo Pony
I've NEVER seen a DJ post about becoming a DJ, getting engaged, and went through with the marriage.

Probably because their wives don't let them post on the Internet anymore.

Cesare Cardinali · Mar 5, 2003

Looks like a party started without me.

Out of all the DJs on this site, I thought that Gio Casanova would be the first to run out and get married. Looks like Bungo will take the plunge first, but I still think its too close to call.

Bungo,

I agree with RKTek and Gyn.

Be very careful here dude. Your judgement is cloudy in this situation. You got out of one very bad LTR of 4 years and because of that, it can make an "ok" LTR look wonderful.

Also, a few months ago you had clear financial goals that did not involve women. You wanted to buy a house and get settled etc. This will not be possible if you get hitched so soon. I don't think any guy should be considering marriage unless he is very secure in his career and can comfortably afford to have a house and support a wife and kid.

Another thing, you posted some stuff about this girl that makes her seem very manipulative. She is a little too sadistic when it comes to torturing her ex boyfriend (of three years!) and I don't doubt that all this marriage talk with her sewing dresses, etc, is not something that is coming "out of the blue". Don't fall into the trap. You should focus on your goals and the LTR should be played out for 2 years before you can even table the idea of marriage.

You need to step back a little and make sure that this girl does not continue to call the shots in the relationship. After 6 months, you should not even have broached the subject of living together, let alone marriage. This is way too soon and I wonder if she does have some alterior agenda here.

By the way, although there are no DJs here who got married after being exposed to the info here, I would really listen very carefully to those who are divorced. The've "been there/done that" and although some may sound bitter, it is important to get the take of someone who has experience the joy of getting married and the pain of having to end the marriage.

Good luck.

Cesare

Cesare Cardinali · Mar 5, 2003

Good Article

GE,

It was a really amusing article and I think he is right on regarding how ruthless a woman will be after she decides that you'd be more useful to her as an ex husband than a husband.

Check out this Amazon.com link to a book I saw a newlywed at work reading. It's called "How to hide money from your husband".

I tell you, you've got to be f*cking nuts to get married these days. hahahah....

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...f=sr_1_1/102-6692901-1344951?v=glance&s=books

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

Also, a few months ago you had clear financial goals that did not involve women. You wanted to buy a house and get settled etc. This will not be possible if you get hitched so soon. I don't think any guy should be considering marriage unless he is very secure in his career and can comfortably affort to have a house and support a wife and kid.

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I have not let go of these goals I have set for myself. This is still my number one goal right now. I have debated this subject with myself, and I haven't come to a complete conclusion, and perhaps I won't because my ultimate goal is still a bit far away, and I cannot put a date on when I actually will get married. If anything I'm a bit worried that the two will arrive almost at the same time. Only time will tell.

As for getting hitched before or after buying a house, I cannot see it making a huge impact on whether I buy a house or not. I'm putting money aside that is only going to be used to put a down payment on a house. This whole issue is making my next few years difficult to plan. I really shouldn't be worrying about it.

You need to step back a little and make sure that this girl does not continue to call the shots in the relationship. After 6 months, you should not even have broached the subject of living together, let alone marriage. This is way too soon and I wonder if she does have some alterior agenda here.

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This is where I need to say something. From all that I've observed, she isn't calling the shots in the relationship. I've been able to take it at a pace that I'm comfortable with. Discussing the whole marriage issue has not seemed unusual to me, possibly because I'm on the search for a good woman to marry, or because me and my ex used to discuss the issue. I'm not sure which. One thing that I have observed about the both of us, we are both looking to eventually get married - even though we haven't led the conversation into "us" getting married. There just seems to be good potential.

One thing that I really can't stand is when we're talking about it, it seems as though we're struggling NOT to apply it to the both of us. It creates a lot of afterthoughts that are difficult to deal with - again giving birth to this thread.

As for who gets married first, GC or Me, I couldn't tell ya

I'm also quite dumbfounded at the responses I've been getting on this thread. If anyone is actually thinking that I'm going to propose in the next few weeks, you're very mistaken. I'm just stuck in a rut, and there's absolutely nothing in the DJ bible that will help deal with this one. I'll just have to be one to help pave the way for others to learn from - and no, this does not mean I'm running out and buying an engagement ring!

I'd also like to hear GC's thoughts on this issue. If he doesn't want to post publicly, he can send me a pm.

MacArthur · Mar 5, 2003

VeryBadGirl · Mar 5, 2003

Originally posted by GynecologyEnthusiast
VBG, you slay me. Your boyfriend is doing to you exactly what the guy in the article was suggesting to do.

Hilarious.

GE

Actually, this past weekend my boyfriend asked me what kind of ring I wanted. I've known he was going to ask me soon for awhile.... now that he knows is not going to be laid off (knock on wood) and can afford it. We've been talking about getting married for awhile now, and there was never any confusion about the fact that it was going to happen. So, we'll see when he decides to surprise me with it. We are going on vacation in a month, so who knows?

BP, I'm sure you will make the right decision as to when you pop the question - I understand your views on living together. I don't have money issues, so I know I'll always be able to support myself no matter what.

And, yes, you are probably venturing into unknown territory for a DJ, but territory that can be amazing if you make it so. All of life is what you make it. If you ever find your marriage/relationship entering into something like that bitter guy described, do something to change it. But, I really think that working at it every day can prohibit things like that from happening - as well as choosing the right person.

Bungo Pony · Mar 5, 2003

Originally posted by VeryBadGirl
And, yes, you are probably venturing into unknown territory for a DJ, but territory that can be amazing if you make it so. All of life is what you make it. If you ever find your marriage/relationship entering into something like that bitter guy described, do something to change it. But, I really think that working at it every day can prohibit things like that from happening - as well as choosing the right person.

What I'm debating right now is if I should bring the discussion more into the open, or if I should suggest tucking it away for now.

Bringing it more into the open may help me decide even more how much this would work out in the future, and more ideas, thoughts, and feelings will be able to be taken into account.

Tucking it away may create more of an awkwardness between me and my gf. It would also be in effect lying to myself and my gf that I am NOT looking to find a good marriage partner.

VeryBadGirl · Mar 5, 2003

Originally posted by Bungo Pony
What I'm debating right now is if I should bring the discussion more into the open, or if I should suggest tucking it away for now.

Bringing it more into the open may help me decide even more how much this would work out in the future, and more ideas, thoughts, and feelings will be able to be taken into account.

Tucking it away may create more of an awkwardness between me and my gf. It would also be in effect lying to myself and my gf that I am NOT looking to find a good marriage partner.

Personally, I like having it out in the open. Although my boyfriend and I didn't really bring it out in the open until we were dating for a year or so. It was good to know what he was thinking, what his concerns were, what the ideal situation would look like for him, etc. (and vice versa) And he has said he has been really glad we can talk about it so openly without pressure - that it has made him feel a lot better about it and know that it is the right decision for us and that we are both really commited to having a great marriage very similar to our great relationship.

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