Looks are more important than you think! Merged [Official thread]

[wayword]

wayword: I'm not sure how I'd rate myself. There's a full explanation of my views on my looks earlier in the thread, so that may help clear some things up. I'll also posted another picture on photobucket, as the last couple were deemed "horrible" by my friends and not representative of what I truly look like. So I drunkenly agreed to let my friend's girlfriend take another picture of my last night (shirtless incidentally), and that may be a slightly better representation...I don't know.

Phew. Excuse the length, but that was a lot of posts directed towards myself. Here's the picture, wayword: http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r2/saynotokrypto/omarsbirthday.jpg

IMHO, this pic is less flattering than the others and I think you really are a 6 tops, now. Facially, you are not particularly handsome and your body is maybe just slightly better than average. Again, you don't look really fat, bony or frail either...so overall I'd rate you as just above average at most.

Therefore, your looks at least shouldn't be a disadvantage...but I don't think will help you consistently date any quality girls over 7, either. I'm guessing you don't get too many random girls constantly fawning over how "cute" you are?

Although 7s certainly aren't bad! That's 2 above average!

 

[Zero Hero]

You look kinda like Shawne Merriman, but you gotta go for that look...here's how you need to look:

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/2006/01/03/gallery.tattoos/merriman.jpg

Also cut up and you'll look good.

 

[Zero Hero]

LOL that guy I showed you was suspended for steroids, you don't need to bulk up that big! But I was talking about the facial hair, I think it'd work for you. Are you mixed?

 

[El Febreezey Da Beez]

That's all well and good...but the problem is that I can provide two examples for each of yours. There's an exception to every rule.

Well don't just say you have examples, give them to me.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

Here is a perfect example as to why looks matter-

So my cousin comes in to town for Christmas and the rest of the Year, and she is single now because her and her boyfriend recently ended a LTR. Now I'm not the kind of person who won't allow any of their female relatives to date around me or date my friends, so she starts going through pictures of my friends. She flips through pictures of my friends Kayn and Joey. Joey is a notorious pretty boy, but is shy. Kayn is just a talker, and as my cousin put it "not that good looking."

So Kayn and Joey come over with a few of their chick friends and we are all having a good time playing drinking games and what not. While we are playing games, Joey is just sitting there not saying a word, but my cousin would not stop showing him all sorts of IOI's. Meanwhile, Kayn, is trying hard to game up my cousin but failing miserably. (Kayn is one of those guys who girls say "you are a playa" but they personally never hook up with him, meaning he never gets any)

To make a long story short, Joey hooks up with my cousin, without doing much more than saying "hi" and nodding from time to time.

-Just as a side note, a few of my friends say my cousin is a 9. She's 5'11'' and 125 LBS. I don't want to elaborate any further on her, seeing as though she is my cousin it would make me feel gross, but a few of my friends have commented on her T&A...prior to being punched in the arm by me.

This is yet another observation added to the list of observations that suggest looks matters.

lets see what else weve looked at:
-I knew a girl in HS (hottie) that would never ever date a guy who didnt have a six pack no matter what.

-women at clubs are so clearly shallow, they wont even so much as even dance with a guy unless hes good looking to her.

-Someone posted how they showed a girl his pic who he was chatting with online, and then she said "lets not meet". clearly she didnt like the way he looked, and it was his pic that sealed his fate.

-You never ever see fat disgusting fugly men with hot women where money or fame can be ruled out as a motive on her part. Yet fat disgusting men are far more common than good looking men, youd think such an observation should be typical if looks didnt matter.

-Hot women pretty much always make comments about "how hot" their BF is. It seems hot women have a tendency to almost never date a guy who is NOT hot. Id wouldnt expect that if looks werent important to hot women.

-Its common to hear hot women say "he has to be atleast cute," when asked "do looks matter?".

-Every girl Ive dated liked me because she thought I looked good. None said "your ugly to me, but I like your personality." Id expect atleast some girls I date to think Im ugly AND think my personality is good if looks didnt matter.

-Skip and others have experienced this aswell^

-Many have confirmed that they too have noticed that hot women "seem shallow".

-ITs typical to see a perticular hot women date guys who all have a common look. Youll see a hot girl that all her past BFs have something in common in the way they look, for example, they will all be really tan, muscular, and spiked haired for example. ITs as if shes dating him for the way he looks, not how he acts.

I cant see how it would be possible to explain all these valid observations using the "looks dont mean ****" theory. Such a theory does not hold up well given this evidence. You cant even try to fit it to these observations. But what wold fit is a different theory, one that fits very well and snug.....the theory that looks DO matter to hot women.

you know what that means.

 

[El Febreezey Da Beez]

This is yet another observation added to the list of observations that suggest looks matters.

lets see what else weve looked at:
-I knew a girl in HS (hottie) that would never ever date a guy who didnt have a six pack no matter what.

-women at clubs are so clearly shallow, they wont even so much as even dance with a guy unless hes good looking to her.

-Someone posted how they showed a girl his pic who he was chatting with online, and then she said "lets not meet". clearly she didnt like the way he looked, and it was his pic that sealed his fate.

-You never ever see fat disgusting fugly men with hot women where money or fame can be ruled out as a motive on her part. Yet fat disgusting men are far more common than good looking men, youd think such an observation should be typical if looks didnt matter.

-Hot women pretty much always make comments about "how hot" their BF is. It seems hot women have a tendency to almost never date a guy who is NOT hot. Id wouldnt expect that if looks werent important to hot women.

-Its common to hear hot women say "he has to be atleast cute," when asked "do looks matter?".

-Every girl Ive dated liked me because she thought I looked good. None said "your ugly to me, but I like your personality." Id expect atleast some girls I date to think Im ugly AND think my personality is good if looks didnt matter.

-Skip and others have experienced this aswell^

-Many have confirmed that they too have noticed that hot women "seem shallow".

-ITs typical to see a perticular hot women date guys who all have a common look. Youll see a hot girl that all her past BFs have something in common in the way they look, for example, they will all be really tan, muscular, and spiked haired for example. ITs as if shes dating him for the way he looks, not how he acts.

I cant see how it would be possible to explain all these valid observations using the "looks dont mean ****" theory. Such a theory does not hold up well given this evidence. You cant even try to fit it to these observations. But what wold fit is a different theory, one that fits very well and snug.....the theory that looks DO matter to hot women.

you know what that means.

That's because Deus Ex Pianoforte doesn't prescribe to the reality we all live in. He stays in his comfort zone; a dream state. :nono:

 

[BuckwildNYC]

To the guys who think only looks matter

Here's is what goes through a girl's head when a hot guy cold approaches her: "O this guy thinks he's so hot coming up to me. He probably bangs a different girl every week. I'm not gonna be another notch on his belt. Let me give him the b!itchy attitude"

I had a couple girls tell me they don't like when guys are too smooth or too hot. I know it sounds crazy but girls are VERY insecure and if they think you are better than them they'll diss you just for the hell of it. They feel safe with the funny guy with a little gut. And I'm not talking out my ass :moon: . This is first hand from a few chicks that I've spoken with. I guess that throws a little wrench into the "only looks matter" debate

 

[Scott92]

So what you're saying is most women who get approached by a good-looking smooth talking guy will reject him?

Riiight.

 

[DJsomeday]

hmm isn't it a general rule that women can't say what attarcts them or not because attraction is not logical?.

 

[Babnik]

This is true. If you are hot, go for the hottest girls. But here is the thing...they feel SAFE with a not so hot guy. They see him as a friend most likely! If you are hot - you do no need to really try to act hard to get!

 

[Francisco d'Anconia]

So what you're saying is most women who get approached by a good-looking smooth talking guy will reject him?

Riiight.

No different than saying that you're going to have a successful close by just using your looks.

None the less, this is a sight about how to interact with women and self improvement. If you're just interested in looks this isn't the best forum.

 

[El Febreezey Da Beez]

Yes, Deus ex Pianoforte lives in a dream world. I'm getting there though, bro. Someday I'll enter the reality where "all" (6.5 billion people, your words) people live in the reality where looks matter...and all men are limited to which women they can attain by their looks. The sky is NOT the limit...looks are. I do take a certain amount of pleasure in knowing that I am the only person on the planet that believes that anything is possible, even if that does mean that I live in a dream world. Suddenly I have the urge to listen to Gimme Shelter by the Rolling Stones.

You and God_of_getting_layed just keep spitting these pearls of wisdom. Someone needs to start Bible'ing this stuff, before even MORE looks matter guys get banned. (pimpin IS easy will be greatly missed.) We should start a whole new chapter called "Self-Limiting Beliefs...and why they are necessary for all DJ's"). Good stuff, guys. Keep 'em coming.

Are those my words? If I remember correctly, I have never even mentioned the entire population of this planet in this thread. And this is why I have a problem with the way you go about responding to other's posts. You take one aspect of an argument that you think you can twist and distort, and then run with it. I never said the entire population bases their attraction around the notion of "looks matter."

I guess you need me to expand my argument, (Or put it into laymen’s terms). I think that looks do matter in certain situations. On a purely primal level, attraction is usually based on looks, whatever those may be is subjective to that specific person; meaning that different people are attracted to different physical features. Some men like plump women, some women like huge males, some men like short women, some women prefer tall men. So - in essence looks do matter when taking that into consideration. Where you and most everyone else on this thread make a mistake (and yes I am referring to the "looks crowd" as well), is that you are assuming that when someone says "looks matter," they are talking about being a good looking person, which I agree is wrong. Looks matter, but how they matter is completely up to each specific person and what they find attractive. It just so happens that what most people are attracted to on a physical level are symmetrical faces, huge breasts, abs of steel, etc.

In other circumstances looks don't matter, and you have touched upon these circumstances. Confidence - as you have hammered home, is a huge asset to have when a person is looking for something on a level other than a primal or sexual level. The ability to talk well is another; we have all seen guys talk their way into girl's pants. NOW, it is unknown whether that girl slept with the guy who "spit game" solely because he was a good talker, or a combination of looks and game. But since it is unknown, you are right when you argue that the ability to talk and confidence is the key...in some circumstances, not all.

The way I see it, both you and God of getting laid are wrong because you limit your entire argument by polarizing the thread. So stop grouping me with God of getting laid.

So there you have it, that's my view on the subject. Hopefully you understand it now.

 

[El Febreezey Da Beez]

You and I have different definitions of "all." Perhaps you should rephrase. Might I suggest "some", "a couple", or "a select few" as reasonable alternatives?

The way I see it, both you and God of getting laid are wrong because you limit your entire argument by polarizing the thread. So stop grouping me with God of getting laid.

And the way I see it, both of you are wrong by speaking for women that you've never met. If you don't want me to group you with supporters of banned posters, I suggest you refrain from supporting the supporters of said banned posters. Just my suggestion...do with it what you will.

Once again you dodged my post with exaggerated claims that you've clearly distorted...once again. It's okay, I and everyone else on this thread has accepted you as what you are.
But thanks for the suggestion, I'm sure it will help out loads when I argue with future narrow minded strangers on web sites who do nothing but flame up a thread. :trouble:

 

[El Febreezey Da Beez]

Which "exaggerated claims" of yours have I distorted? Let's clear this up, because I pride myself on being very careful not to misrepresent an opponent in a debate.

About the flaming...
flame [fleym]
- noun

13. Computer Slang. to behave in an offensive manner, esp. on a computer network.

What have I done to offend you, El Febreezey Da Beez? I haven't personally attacked you in any way shape or form or dismissed your arguments as the result of living in a "dream world." You've been arguing your side with me for what, 3 weeks? I've been doing this s'hit going on a year and a half. Cite some examples of where I have been offensive towards another poster, and then we shall see what you can do with that oh-so-dangerous E-Baseball Bat of yours should I not repent.

1. Yes, I have only been "arguing" with you for about 3 weeks or so, but it's long enough to see that your act is tired, seeing as though that's the second time in a week that you used the dictionary in your post. Oh and by the way, if you are going to do that, don't omit a definition that might make you seem less credible. -

Computer Slang. an act or instance of angry criticism or disparagement, esp. on a computer network.

Or

Computer Slang. to insult or criticize angrily, esp. on a computer network.

It's okay, I'm sure it was an honest mistake. But as you can see, using the definitions that you clearly forgot to insert into your previous post, you are guilty of flaming.

2. If we are going to use the one definition you chose, then I will tell you how you offended me. Despite your pride in not misrepresenting an "opponent" (wake up, this isn't a campaign), you did in fact misrepresent me when you claimed that "my words" stated that "6.5 billion" people believe that looks matter at all costs. When did I say that? Was that your interpretation? - If so, then I understand the problem. And yes, no need to worry, as there are a great many programs available to improve your reading comprehension skills.
:moon:

 

[girl_in_a_boy_forum]

While I may be immediately attracted to a hot guy, what matters to me more is his personality. Seriously, how often do you see beautiful women dating less than beautiful men?

I wouldn't necessarily disregard a guy because he was "too hot". I would much rather be with a guy I click with.

 

[Taviii]

Here's is what goes through a girl's head when a hot guy cold approaches her: "O this guy thinks he's so hot coming up to me. He probably bangs a different girl every week. I'm not gonna be another notch on his belt. Let me give him the b!itchy attitude"

I had a couple girls tell me they don't like when guys are too smooth or too hot. I know it sounds crazy but girls are VERY insecure and if they think you are better than them they'll diss you just for the hell of it. They feel safe with the funny guy with a little gut. And I'm not talking out my ass :moon: . This is first hand from a few chicks that I've spoken with. I guess that throws a little wrench into the "only looks matter" debate

Girl don't now what they want.

I'm sure you have seen how easy they fall in love with a guy that is smooth with them.

All I can say is the girls you talked to were talking sh!t.

 

[afc_2_dj]

Originally Posted by girl_in_a_boy_forum
While I may be immediately attracted to a hot guy, what matters to me more is his personality.

Agreed, this is really the crux of the looks issue; and what is missed in the "a is more important than b agruments"; how often do you give the guy who isn't good looking a chance? This is all very well, but most women only give the time of day to good-looking guys, then deceide on personality if they "click" or if they repeat the above. So looks aren't the ultimate reason for your choosing him, but are the catalyst, without looks the guy won't even get the audition.

Seriously, how often do you see beautiful women dating less than beautiful men?

Actaully very seldom, I often see the reverse though. Maybe its different in the US tho..

 

[pornstar88]

Nope contrary to the belief of women dissing guys just for no reason, I have been around a really good lookin guy. Who is my cuzn and girls literally throw themselves at him. NO JOKE. He dont have to say a word and the hottest gurls in the party approach him. I promise to GOD. He doesnt really use game he just acts calm and cool and he literally gets any girls he wants. I promise you.

I stand there in awe as he says "do you want those gurls to come over here" then he makes some eye contact then the next thing you know they are right infront of us. And he never actually asks them to come he just looks at them a few times. Hes a straight pretty boy. And he doesnt have to try to get hb10's he actually prefers adverage women over hb 10s lol. Try and go sarging with a dude like my cuzn and you will find that It is literally one of the toughest things to do in the game. Cuz gurls litterally dont give a **** about what you are sayin. And my cuzn kind of has a dominant personality also. Im good lookin too though so i usually get the second hottest girl of the group and guys litterally want to fight us wherever we go cuz we are the good looking people at clubs. And we both have some game and work together so well.

 

[God_of_getting_layed]

You and God_of_getting_layed just keep spitting these pearls of wisdom. Someone needs to start Bible'ing this stuff, before even MORE looks matter guys get banned. (pimpin IS easy will be greatly missed.) We should start a whole new chapter called "Self-Limiting Beliefs...and why they are necessary for all DJ's"). Good stuff, guys. Keep 'em coming.

Self limiting beleifs.......

So your saying one is limiting himself by acknowledging an unfavorable fact of reality? the fact that attractive women place an importance on looks. THats like telling a woman that she's limiting herself by acknowledging that men place strong importance on looks. THats not limiting, thats getting an accurate assessment of reality so that one can make better decisions on how to improve themselves. If one has a false assessment of reality, how would it be possible for them to accurately make good decisions? the answer is it would not. The woman, by understanding that men require looks will take those steps to guarantee that her success will improve. Instead of working on her personality, shed work on her physique by excersicing. She would learn how to dress in an attractive way to men etc. Hell, get a boob job if neccessary. THe point is, the woman didnt limit herself in this example by admitting that men require looks, she would use it to guide her decisions to better imrpove herself.

It works the same way with men. If attractive women place a high importance on looks, then a man would only benefit from acknowledging that women require looks. He would have an accurate assessment of reality to make better and accurate decisions to improve himself, ie. working out, dressing in an attractivewayto women, cosmetic surgery etc.. So calling "acknowledging that looks matter" as a "self limiting" beleife is an oxymoron in this case. Its actually doing the opposite. denying such a fact which you are doing would actually be a self limiting beleif. Your choosing to stick with your innacurate understanding of reality to base your "self imporvement with women" decisions on. yeah, Id say that would be self limiting.

 

[jonwon]

Here's is what goes through a girl's head when a hot guy cold approaches her: "O this guy thinks he's so hot coming up to me. He probably bangs a different girl every week. I'm not gonna be another notch on his belt. Let me give him the b!itchy attitude"

I had a couple girls tell me they don't like when guys are too smooth or too hot. I know it sounds crazy but girls are VERY insecure and if they think you are better than them they'll diss you just for the hell of it. They feel safe with the funny guy with a little gut. And I'm not talking out my ass :moon: . This is first hand from a few chicks that I've spoken with. I guess that throws a little wrench into the "only looks matter" debate

I have made this point over and over again, on this forum.

Looks play a pivotal role with the opposite sex. Women make out that there is more going on (and in truth there is), but they are still attracted to what they are attracted to (Which includes looks to a very HIGH degree).

Attraction is not a rational process that you can simply turn on and off at will.

Now I am reading this as these girls are insecure, rightly so, this was the fundamental point it seems.

The sad thing about reading this: is the fact these women felt the need to qualify themselves on the guys, since they felt inferior.
Now to me that seems like the GL guy was trying to game a bit of a selfish biatch to say the least, she could not imagine herself to be up to his standards so to make herself feel better she had to resort to put downs, to make herself feel better.

I can live without those type of women thank you very much.

Now onto looks, looks are important to the degree where by they help to create attraction. Now some read Good looking as simply brad Pitt or Tom Cruise, these level of looks are an extreme and no one can argue girls and women are not attracted to them due to there looks, so in that respect saying real good looking guys don’t get women’s attention is a bit stupid.

But I stated these are extremes, each man can become good looking to a certain degree there is nothing stopping the average joe or the ugly joe from going out and stylising him self up with clothes that fit him and look good on him and I am not referring to labels either, labels are attractive to people who worship this mainly! Again attraction is a very weird thing, people are attracted to the most weird things, I mean look at the example of the girls above, they where attracted to the fact of putting this guy down for a chance to feel superior to him when they where faced with there none admitted feelings of insecurity (why cant the *****es just be honest??).

Now looks and personality. Are two positive attributes to have, now even personality is a loose term, many people are attracted to diverse class ranges, where personality changes.

Without going into this too much and believe me I can.

Don’t give a fu** what some insecure biatch seems to think or does, who the hell do they think they are, golden pus** springs to mind here.
Instead go out look good not just for women but for a sense of pride in that you look shi* hot and you know it.
Women on mass respond to looks they can’t help it, the prove is in the above, they got negative about it, since they repressed there own emotions and turned it negative to support there limited frame actions, personally I would prefer to look great feel great and be the best man I can be! Even if that means some women wont like it due to there own insecurity, I say fu** them and find women with more of a back bone to say.

Also any man that supports the dribble of women like these, exactly what are you going to do?
Dress less manly, sexually, since some women says it makes her feel insecure (well she as but in a round about way).
Is this not a form of puss* worship and pandering to the female collective?

Well I say it is my right as a man to look as good as I can do since looking good as many, many advantages in this world many indeed, of some women thinks that’s negative then that is simply there problem.

If you’re a man who dresses down or plays down his sexiness due to this limited framing then I feel sorry for you, or the women you socialize with.

Fact is looking good and making yourselves to be as attractive as you can is a social trait, you only have to turn on the TV to see how we glorify attractive people, it is surprising (well not really) how most of these attractive people look as average as you and I on there off days.

Next time a women says a guy is too good looking well bully for her, I would guarantee there are others who don’t think the same way.
Insecurity goes both ways, hence this forum.

As for personality, please lets have none of that drivel here, to even get to a personality requires basic forms of communication and approach, with most women base on looks, even the ones above, regardless what went on here they based there potential for personality on looks, in that they did not even give that a chance. So saying I go for personality is pretty loose, considering even that personality is subject to the individual. So saying guys work on personality is as fair as saying guys work on looks.

The thing with looks, is it allows you to get in the door, more times then not, personality does not, not to the same degree.
Looks are seen as an external source so it always there in the open, there is no need to try to push it out or make it become known.
Also looks, unlike personality a women can see if she likes your look and go for it, where as personality, would be far harder to convey since to show personality would imply every women is respondant to personality traits as indicators of interest.

Anyway that’s enough of this it can go on for too long and people don’t like long posts.
Even though mine are rather good, if I don’t think so myself

Anyway dress well, wash always, look as good as you can, lets work on perosnality later.
If you ugly even that does not make a majour deal, but lets not pretend women dont like GL guys, I mean come on FFS.

Women are as insecure as men are, so yes OFC ugly men go out with GL women, also women love social status so an ugly guy with the right set of social tools can fu** GL women and they do ALOT>